Forums » Suggestions
if you want "escorts", slow down the escortees
We all salivate at the prospect of convoy battles, be it trader convoys or CTC convoys.
But right now
(a) CTC is about hit and run
(b) Moth does not need escorts, since it can outrun everything.
What is the general consensus to solve this problem? Slow down the escorts.
Both CTC transports and Moths are way too fast. If you want people to dogfight *around* these transports/moths, then slow them down. As it is, if you even stop "turboing", you are left in the dust in no time, so how are we suppose to "fight" around the transports?
But right now
(a) CTC is about hit and run
(b) Moth does not need escorts, since it can outrun everything.
What is the general consensus to solve this problem? Slow down the escorts.
Both CTC transports and Moths are way too fast. If you want people to dogfight *around* these transports/moths, then slow them down. As it is, if you even stop "turboing", you are left in the dust in no time, so how are we suppose to "fight" around the transports?
Yes, but also note that the armor for the CtC transports would need to be raised significantly, so that it can take fire without popping long enough for the escorts to be of use.
the CtC transports should be specially armored for their task. 4x the armor of a normal transport of that type is a bare minimum.
What I like to see are Moths with tail guns and fly at 100m/s with turbo....and CTC transports being Moths.
softy your points are well made, I agree heartily.
I think 100 m/s w/turbo and a tail gun is a little drastic atm... why not start by slowing it down to 160 m/s with turbo.
One option I'd like to recommend for CtC is that *any* ship carrying premium XiRite ore has its turbo engine disabled... rationale being that the gravitic pulse turbo drive would volatilize the precious ore, gameplay reason being that it would make CtC much more about wingmen and defensive flying (vets, think back to old CtF strategies).
I think 100 m/s w/turbo and a tail gun is a little drastic atm... why not start by slowing it down to 160 m/s with turbo.
One option I'd like to recommend for CtC is that *any* ship carrying premium XiRite ore has its turbo engine disabled... rationale being that the gravitic pulse turbo drive would volatilize the precious ore, gameplay reason being that it would make CtC much more about wingmen and defensive flying (vets, think back to old CtF strategies).
phaserlight :
The reason I wanted 100m/s with tail gun is because even at 160m/s, you can't dogfight around the transport. In a dogfight, with all the maneuvering, you are essentially standing still. In a few seconds, the transport is no longer with you. But maybe we can try 160m/s first, though I bet it'll still be a chase instead of a battle.
I agree with you about the CTC cargo disabling turbo. It has been suggested a zillion times, but it has unfortunately fallen on deaf ears :(.
The reason I wanted 100m/s with tail gun is because even at 160m/s, you can't dogfight around the transport. In a dogfight, with all the maneuvering, you are essentially standing still. In a few seconds, the transport is no longer with you. But maybe we can try 160m/s first, though I bet it'll still be a chase instead of a battle.
I agree with you about the CTC cargo disabling turbo. It has been suggested a zillion times, but it has unfortunately fallen on deaf ears :(.
I AGREE!
This would give everyone who has quit ctc and myself a reason to start it up again. I quit cause Itani's had the advantage, and the devs didn't change that.
Itani's = more fighters/faster route/more uit (this one might not be true anymore, plus we had spuck.....)
Once serco stopped winning they all kinda got tired of it. Sure we can win against those odds but it requires more effort than is fair. Hey I like fighting the uphill battles *ONLY* when I win 1/3 of them. (yes I have determined that number to be worth it for myself) It got to the point where defending just wasn't worth it since all the itani had to do is get a centurion III, hit it, and run. Also worked decently with a Rune in the beginning of the week.
Slow em down, make em 4x the hull (or just moths), and I'll check CTC out again.
/givemoney Devs 2c
This would give everyone who has quit ctc and myself a reason to start it up again. I quit cause Itani's had the advantage, and the devs didn't change that.
Itani's = more fighters/faster route/more uit (this one might not be true anymore, plus we had spuck.....)
Once serco stopped winning they all kinda got tired of it. Sure we can win against those odds but it requires more effort than is fair. Hey I like fighting the uphill battles *ONLY* when I win 1/3 of them. (yes I have determined that number to be worth it for myself) It got to the point where defending just wasn't worth it since all the itani had to do is get a centurion III, hit it, and run. Also worked decently with a Rune in the beginning of the week.
Slow em down, make em 4x the hull (or just moths), and I'll check CTC out again.
/givemoney Devs 2c
Well, I think we should have slower turbo overall, perhaps even more so for CtC transports. Having slower ships overall would make the chases much more manageable. That, combined with more specific ship roles would do the job nicely, methinks.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11040
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11040
I think the moth should remain reasonably fast because it is a player owned ship. And players don't realy want to be terain for fighter pilots to fight around.
But by all means make NPC transports as slow as you want, we don't have to worry about them getting bored.
But by all means make NPC transports as slow as you want, we don't have to worry about them getting bored.
I agree with Lord Q. As a trader, I neither need nor want escorts (they'd take a bite out of my profits), and DO NOT want to find that I suddenly NEED to have them.
Do what you want with the CTC escorts, though, and once the mission editor hits the game, feel free to make convoy raiding missions with slow NPC convoys in there. Just leave us players out of that "must be easy to catch" mentality, OK?
Do what you want with the CTC escorts, though, and once the mission editor hits the game, feel free to make convoy raiding missions with slow NPC convoys in there. Just leave us players out of that "must be easy to catch" mentality, OK?
> As a trader, I neither need nor want escorts (they'd take a bite out of my
> profits), and DO NOT want to find that I suddenly NEED to have them.
From an in-game, character perspective, any trader will agree with you, they want to make as much of a profit as possible, which means they don't want to have to hire escorts. But, from outside the game's context, looking at it as a player, I would want traders to have to hire escorts, if they want to be safe from pirates. Right now there's no challenge or danger to trading, even deep in grey space, which means it's boring. Making it dangerous, so that traders would need escorts to be sure of surviving, would make it much more intersting to me.
And no one is saying you would be forced to hire escorts. But it ought to be a trade-off: if you don't hire escorts, you would be taking more of a risk, in the hope of a higher profit. But currently, whether you hire escorts or not, there is no risk.
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Also, I see encouraging hiring escorts to be a good (if only partial) solution to the cash-flow problem I see in Vendetta: too much cash, not enough flow.
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> profits), and DO NOT want to find that I suddenly NEED to have them.
From an in-game, character perspective, any trader will agree with you, they want to make as much of a profit as possible, which means they don't want to have to hire escorts. But, from outside the game's context, looking at it as a player, I would want traders to have to hire escorts, if they want to be safe from pirates. Right now there's no challenge or danger to trading, even deep in grey space, which means it's boring. Making it dangerous, so that traders would need escorts to be sure of surviving, would make it much more intersting to me.
And no one is saying you would be forced to hire escorts. But it ought to be a trade-off: if you don't hire escorts, you would be taking more of a risk, in the hope of a higher profit. But currently, whether you hire escorts or not, there is no risk.
[edit]
Also, I see encouraging hiring escorts to be a good (if only partial) solution to the cash-flow problem I see in Vendetta: too much cash, not enough flow.
[/edit]
To add to the point Beolach made, there should be a variety of trade ships to choose from, each with specific strengths and weaknesses.
Perhaps you would choose a faster, lighter courier ship with a smaller hold or a well armed, heavily armored transport, or you would go high risk and choose a huge cargo hold with relatively little defense.
The problem with the Moth is that it has it all: armor, speed, and a freaking huge cargo hold.
softy: Not quite sure what that deaf ears comment is all about, the devs and others probably read many of these threads without replying to them... and that's as it should be; it's not their primary job to moderate the forums. At any rate, if the XiRite=Noturbo suggestion were implemented the turbo speed on the transport wouldn't make a difference anyway.
I think it would be cool to see some slow moving multiplayer cargo ships with one or two turrets, but not the moth. The moth is a single player bulk cargo ship, and it should need fighter escorts in dangerous space.
Perhaps you would choose a faster, lighter courier ship with a smaller hold or a well armed, heavily armored transport, or you would go high risk and choose a huge cargo hold with relatively little defense.
The problem with the Moth is that it has it all: armor, speed, and a freaking huge cargo hold.
softy: Not quite sure what that deaf ears comment is all about, the devs and others probably read many of these threads without replying to them... and that's as it should be; it's not their primary job to moderate the forums. At any rate, if the XiRite=Noturbo suggestion were implemented the turbo speed on the transport wouldn't make a difference anyway.
I think it would be cool to see some slow moving multiplayer cargo ships with one or two turrets, but not the moth. The moth is a single player bulk cargo ship, and it should need fighter escorts in dangerous space.
The problem I see with cash, Beolach, is that it's too easy to make and there's nothing to spend it on. A trader can make a couple of millions in a couple of hours; a fighter can make even more in the BP. So offering people cash to watch over you, when said person can make lots more cash in less time doing something FAR more fun than just following another player around, is pointless.
And there ARE options for the trader; I myself don't take a Behemoth all of the time, simply because it is too slow for me some times; I still use centaurs and wraiths if the situation warrants it, though in order to negate the increased risk of piracy in these vessels I stick to nationspace. Then again, about 90% of all my trips are within nationspace, regardless of what I'm flying.
And, at least for me, even if the risk is increased by nerfing the Behemoth or whatever, hiring escorts will still be a bad deal; I'll simply adapt.
And there ARE options for the trader; I myself don't take a Behemoth all of the time, simply because it is too slow for me some times; I still use centaurs and wraiths if the situation warrants it, though in order to negate the increased risk of piracy in these vessels I stick to nationspace. Then again, about 90% of all my trips are within nationspace, regardless of what I'm flying.
And, at least for me, even if the risk is increased by nerfing the Behemoth or whatever, hiring escorts will still be a bad deal; I'll simply adapt.
> The problem I see with cash, Beolach, is that it's too easy to make and there's nothing to spend it on.
That's exactly my point - too much cash, not enough flow. Making traders vulnerable would introduce more ways for the money to flow, to the escorts the trader might hire, or to the pirates who attack the trader, to the stations to replace ships lost. As for fighters making more in BP, that's something that I think should be changed - AFTER or at the same time as changing the trade ships so that they might want escorts. Escorting traders should be more lucrative than a military mission, but the military mission should give more combat XP. The military mission should pay well enough for the military pilots to support themselves, but they shouldn't be becoming filthy rich.
As for choosing ships, and where to trade, and whether or not to hire escorts, all of those should be up to each player to decide for themselves. But they should have tradeoffs. Currently, there's no tradeoff for the Behemoth (yeah, sure, it's 10 to 20 m/s slower, but since it has well over twice the cargo of any of the ships that are faster than it, that doesn't matter, unless you're moving little enough cargo to fit into the smaller ship in one trip).
If you don't want to hire escorts, that's fine, but you should be running more of a risk in that case, especially in grey space.
That's exactly my point - too much cash, not enough flow. Making traders vulnerable would introduce more ways for the money to flow, to the escorts the trader might hire, or to the pirates who attack the trader, to the stations to replace ships lost. As for fighters making more in BP, that's something that I think should be changed - AFTER or at the same time as changing the trade ships so that they might want escorts. Escorting traders should be more lucrative than a military mission, but the military mission should give more combat XP. The military mission should pay well enough for the military pilots to support themselves, but they shouldn't be becoming filthy rich.
As for choosing ships, and where to trade, and whether or not to hire escorts, all of those should be up to each player to decide for themselves. But they should have tradeoffs. Currently, there's no tradeoff for the Behemoth (yeah, sure, it's 10 to 20 m/s slower, but since it has well over twice the cargo of any of the ships that are faster than it, that doesn't matter, unless you're moving little enough cargo to fit into the smaller ship in one trip).
If you don't want to hire escorts, that's fine, but you should be running more of a risk in that case, especially in grey space.
I think everyone can agree that the moth could stand to be more vulnerable to pirats, but i'm still not convinced that giving the escort jocks something to escort is worth making every moth's pilot's trade missions more tedious. Like i said before, weeken the moth primarily by lowering it's armor, and make NPC convoys slow and tough, that way everyone gets what they want:
Trades get a ship that can haul lots of cargo reasonably far.
Pirats get Prey that is actualy catchable
Escorts pilots get NPCs that are slow and tough to escort
Finaly with regards to adding chalenge to tarde missions i'd like to see a series of smuggelin, or valuble cargo transport missions where the player is at risk of being attacked by NPC pirats. If it could be worked to be PC and NPC pirates that would be even better, but the ledgistics of such a system elude me at this time so i'll settle for just NPC pirats.
Trades get a ship that can haul lots of cargo reasonably far.
Pirats get Prey that is actualy catchable
Escorts pilots get NPCs that are slow and tough to escort
Finaly with regards to adding chalenge to tarde missions i'd like to see a series of smuggelin, or valuble cargo transport missions where the player is at risk of being attacked by NPC pirats. If it could be worked to be PC and NPC pirates that would be even better, but the ledgistics of such a system elude me at this time so i'll settle for just NPC pirats.
Not sure... but wouldn't the Cargo=NoTurbo *hamper* the CtC runs by opposing nations? It would make chasing the transport more interesting... but if an Itani attacked/killed a Serco transport and "captured the cargo" (or vice versa)... and started back to Itani (Serco) space, they would have a really long journey ahead of them... they'd probably just dump it somewhere to keep it from going to it's intended destination... and CtC would then really become StC (Stop the Cargo), or KtC (Kill the Cargo)...
Confused Seta - I could be wrong (but I don't CtC so I cannot even pretend to understand the issues involved)
Confused Seta - I could be wrong (but I don't CtC so I cannot even pretend to understand the issues involved)
i think taking away bost would be good but it is a good point that it would take ages to get back, if it is made so it takes away turbo it might allso have to be made so you have to take it a shorter distance.
it might allso have to be made so you have to take it a shorter distance.
how about...
you get full reward for taking it to the base inside your nation.
you get 25% of the cash reward for taking ENAMY xith to the location your nations convoys START from, and that amount gets added to your own nations next convoy.
You get no reward for taking xith from YOUR convoys back to the station it started from, but any delivered there also gets added to the next convoy.
how about...
you get full reward for taking it to the base inside your nation.
you get 25% of the cash reward for taking ENAMY xith to the location your nations convoys START from, and that amount gets added to your own nations next convoy.
You get no reward for taking xith from YOUR convoys back to the station it started from, but any delivered there also gets added to the next convoy.