Forums » Suggestions
Frustrations with the Trading System
Some of you may have noticed that I haven't been playing on the production server or posting any messages since late July. I've put myself on LOA (Leave of Absence), pending some changes in the gameplay that I'd like to see.
In this post, I shall vent my frustration with the trading system. In another post, I plan to express my frustration with the combat system.
Regarding the trading system, I'm very frustrated that it is still impossible to unload/sell partial amounts of loaded cargo. This is elementary, required functionality for any practical space trading game. For example, if I have a Behemoth and am comparing prices while trading, I would like to retain one unit of each type of product in my cargo bay while selling the rest. Otherwise, researching prices while trading becomes horribly inefficient. However, currently, it is only possible to sell all or nothing of each type of product. This makes it impossible to check prices while trading for profit efficiently on long, multi-stop hauls.
Instead of the current "Unload"/"Unload and Sell"/"Unload All"/"Unload and Sell All" buttons, I strongly feel that there should be the following buttons under the "Cargo" tab:
* Unload 1
* Unload 10
* Unload 100
Similarly, instead of the current "Load" button, I strongly feel that there should be the following buttons:
* Load 1
* Load 10
* Load 100
The current "Unload and Sell" and "Unload and Sell All" are superfluous, and should be eliminated, because they take up space and only duplicate functionality already provided under the "Sell" tab.
This is the approach already taken in the popular non-network space combat/trading RPG "Vega Strike."
Until this elementary functionality is provided, I don't plan to return to Vendetta Online for the time being. As a trader, my main interest in trading is to keep up-to-date on the most profitable trade routes at all times while maximizing profits, and the only efficient, interesting way I see to do this is to be able to trade and research prices at the same time. I need to retain at least one unit of each item while being able to sell the rest in my cargo bay in order to do this.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
In this post, I shall vent my frustration with the trading system. In another post, I plan to express my frustration with the combat system.
Regarding the trading system, I'm very frustrated that it is still impossible to unload/sell partial amounts of loaded cargo. This is elementary, required functionality for any practical space trading game. For example, if I have a Behemoth and am comparing prices while trading, I would like to retain one unit of each type of product in my cargo bay while selling the rest. Otherwise, researching prices while trading becomes horribly inefficient. However, currently, it is only possible to sell all or nothing of each type of product. This makes it impossible to check prices while trading for profit efficiently on long, multi-stop hauls.
Instead of the current "Unload"/"Unload and Sell"/"Unload All"/"Unload and Sell All" buttons, I strongly feel that there should be the following buttons under the "Cargo" tab:
* Unload 1
* Unload 10
* Unload 100
Similarly, instead of the current "Load" button, I strongly feel that there should be the following buttons:
* Load 1
* Load 10
* Load 100
The current "Unload and Sell" and "Unload and Sell All" are superfluous, and should be eliminated, because they take up space and only duplicate functionality already provided under the "Sell" tab.
This is the approach already taken in the popular non-network space combat/trading RPG "Vega Strike."
Until this elementary functionality is provided, I don't plan to return to Vendetta Online for the time being. As a trader, my main interest in trading is to keep up-to-date on the most profitable trade routes at all times while maximizing profits, and the only efficient, interesting way I see to do this is to be able to trade and research prices at the same time. I need to retain at least one unit of each item while being able to sell the rest in my cargo bay in order to do this.
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
Unload all and sell serve a very useful purpose, making it easier to sell everything in your cargo.
To improve on your suggestion, I'd rather see load and unload be replaced with input fields, just like the sell/buy areas.
Also, for future use, threatening to leave doesn't make the devs magically have less work to do. Some people view it as childish threats and the thread degrades into flames, making a good suggestion thread a locked suggestion thread. Hopefully it won't come to that.
To improve on your suggestion, I'd rather see load and unload be replaced with input fields, just like the sell/buy areas.
Also, for future use, threatening to leave doesn't make the devs magically have less work to do. Some people view it as childish threats and the thread degrades into flames, making a good suggestion thread a locked suggestion thread. Hopefully it won't come to that.
STFU and do this oh so simple task, you trade oriented critter: (1) unload all, (2) drrraaaagggg yer pointer over the loooooong distance from "CARGO" tab to "SELL" tab, and *click*, (3) sell all but 1 cu of your cargo of choice, and finally (4) load said cu of cargo back into yer moth and get the hell out of the station.
Does it sound longer than what yer whining fer? Aye. Practically speaking, the time and effort is de minimus.
/me whacks Dekuwhatevertheheckhisnameis with the Smart-Stick(tm)
Does it sound longer than what yer whining fer? Aye. Practically speaking, the time and effort is de minimus.
/me whacks Dekuwhatevertheheckhisnameis with the Smart-Stick(tm)
the functionality you want (keeping 1 unit) does exist (i think) you can unload, and then sell all but 1 and load that 1. (this would take fewer commands than unloading 119 units of cargo by your perposed system) [edit] the doc beat me to this one i guess
and "unload all and sell" is very usefull to combat pilots who bring back the drops from bits they kill.
and "unload all and sell" is very usefull to combat pilots who bring back the drops from bits they kill.
I would suggest an even easier fix. Have a list of all available cargo widgets with their current station purchase price at each station. You shouldn't need an item to sell to be able to find out how much it's selling for.
Second, why not just have a number box for unload? Select cargo, type in the number you wish to unload, and click.
Third, is this really worth leaving the game? I echo others in saying that you could probably have made this suggestions with a less end-of-the-world feel.
-tm
Second, why not just have a number box for unload? Select cargo, type in the number you wish to unload, and click.
Third, is this really worth leaving the game? I echo others in saying that you could probably have made this suggestions with a less end-of-the-world feel.
-tm
I agree with Deku, it should be implemented in the station interface.
Even BETTER, instead of having to keep some of each item in your hold, why doesn't the station just list a menu of ALL items and what it is offering to purchase each item for?
Deku, we've got a LOT of input on the economics model so far and I think that the devs are actually listening. I'm hopeful that once the Hive and the NPC convoys are complete, that the functional economy is the next "big" thing coming.
Even BETTER, instead of having to keep some of each item in your hold, why doesn't the station just list a menu of ALL items and what it is offering to purchase each item for?
Deku, we've got a LOT of input on the economics model so far and I think that the devs are actually listening. I'm hopeful that once the Hive and the NPC convoys are complete, that the functional economy is the next "big" thing coming.
I believe this is the case too, LeberMac. I think the thinking is that the NPCs will be needed to keep the economy moving, and the Hive can be used as the test bed for the NPC-side of the crafting system (collectors bring ore to queens/levi which produces equipment/ships after time). This gives the economy a safety (players would have to kill MANY NPCs in order to shutdown the economy) and keeps crafting problems in testing to a minimum (few will complain about wiping out the Hive because it ran out of ships, the reaction would be much different if the Itani ran out of Strike Force ships...).
The new GUI is likely to include the option for users to create their own skins, so even if the default skin doesn't have the load/unload buttons the way you want it, you should be able to create or edit a skin so that it behaves the way you want. The new GUI is coming soon, with advanced skinning capabilities either at initial release or shortly after.
An extensive economy redux is also coming in the short to mid-term.
An extensive economy redux is also coming in the short to mid-term.
we all know the UI is changing for the stations... we can only HOPE that it will allow selective loading and unloading by amounts (input feild, biznach! who the hell always sells in 1, 10 and 100u increments?)
I do understand the frustration though... like how I brought my mothful fo lux goods to sedina for the moth demo drby, only to find I couldn't unload just SOME of it for the next round, and could only either sell or JETT it in partial amounts rather than full.
I do understand the frustration though... like how I brought my mothful fo lux goods to sedina for the moth demo drby, only to find I couldn't unload just SOME of it for the next round, and could only either sell or JETT it in partial amounts rather than full.
I'd like this option for my truck. When I want just one thing out of the back, I usually have to take everything out to get it ;)
Re: Cunjo
> (input feild, biznach! who the hell always sells in 1, 10 and 100u increments?)
I think that you are missing the purpose of the buttons. While an input field would be even better, the separate buttons for unloading 1/10/100 units of cargo are designed to substitute for an input field, which is harder to implement, without sacrificing input speed appreciably for any practical cargo amount.
For example, if I am carrying 120 units of Pentric Ore and wish to sell 119, currently, I need to carry out the following procedure:
1. Press the "Cargo" tab.
2. Press the "Unload All" button
3. Press the the "Sell" tab.
4. Click on the "Pentric Ore" selection in the scroll list.
5. Enter "119" in the "Sell" field.
6. Click on the "Sell" button.
7. Click on the "Cargo" tab.
8. Click on the "Pentric Ore" selection in the "Unloaded Cargo" list.
9. Click on the "Load" button.
In the ideal case, with separate buttons for both unloading and selling 1/10/100 units of cargo, this process could be simplified as follows:
1. Press the "Cargo" tab.
2. Press the "Sell 100" button.
3. Press the "Sell 10" button.
4. Press the "Sell 1" button 9 times (this takes less time than it sounds, because the mouse can simply be pressed 9 times quickly).
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
> (input feild, biznach! who the hell always sells in 1, 10 and 100u increments?)
I think that you are missing the purpose of the buttons. While an input field would be even better, the separate buttons for unloading 1/10/100 units of cargo are designed to substitute for an input field, which is harder to implement, without sacrificing input speed appreciably for any practical cargo amount.
For example, if I am carrying 120 units of Pentric Ore and wish to sell 119, currently, I need to carry out the following procedure:
1. Press the "Cargo" tab.
2. Press the "Unload All" button
3. Press the the "Sell" tab.
4. Click on the "Pentric Ore" selection in the scroll list.
5. Enter "119" in the "Sell" field.
6. Click on the "Sell" button.
7. Click on the "Cargo" tab.
8. Click on the "Pentric Ore" selection in the "Unloaded Cargo" list.
9. Click on the "Load" button.
In the ideal case, with separate buttons for both unloading and selling 1/10/100 units of cargo, this process could be simplified as follows:
1. Press the "Cargo" tab.
2. Press the "Sell 100" button.
3. Press the "Sell 10" button.
4. Press the "Sell 1" button 9 times (this takes less time than it sounds, because the mouse can simply be pressed 9 times quickly).
-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier
[quote Incarnate http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/12080#146755 ]
The ability to let users replace UI graphics is inherent in the new UI system. But, I'm not exactly sure how polished up that whole area is.. it's not what we're focusing on right now. For the moment we're just trying to get the UI together and working properly and doing new things. In any event, if it isn't able to support skins at release time, it'll probably do so shortly thereafter.
Skins are pretty easy. It'll probably just be a text file that allows you to override the built-in graphics with replacements of your own. More advanced user-configurability, like exposing the underlying Lua code for people to make their own UI-widgets and stuff.. that's a little more involved. But, that ability is also pretty inherent, and has been a goal since the beginning of the re-write, so I'm pretty optimistic there too. But, again, for the moment we're just trying to make it all work.
[/quote]
The way I read that, even if the default skin of the new UI doesn't have an input field or 1/10/100 buttons for load/unload, it shouldn't be to tough for users to make skins that do have them the way they want them. Maybe not right when the new UI comes out, but it shouldn't be too long after.
The ability to let users replace UI graphics is inherent in the new UI system. But, I'm not exactly sure how polished up that whole area is.. it's not what we're focusing on right now. For the moment we're just trying to get the UI together and working properly and doing new things. In any event, if it isn't able to support skins at release time, it'll probably do so shortly thereafter.
Skins are pretty easy. It'll probably just be a text file that allows you to override the built-in graphics with replacements of your own. More advanced user-configurability, like exposing the underlying Lua code for people to make their own UI-widgets and stuff.. that's a little more involved. But, that ability is also pretty inherent, and has been a goal since the beginning of the re-write, so I'm pretty optimistic there too. But, again, for the moment we're just trying to make it all work.
[/quote]
The way I read that, even if the default skin of the new UI doesn't have an input field or 1/10/100 buttons for load/unload, it shouldn't be to tough for users to make skins that do have them the way they want them. Maybe not right when the new UI comes out, but it shouldn't be too long after.
Somone could ban Dr.Lecter?
just read his post. it's very an insulting post.
too bad.
PS: i am agree with "DekuDekuplex Ornitier"
just read his post. it's very an insulting post.
too bad.
PS: i am agree with "DekuDekuplex Ornitier"
seriously, why can't we just have each station list the prices for all widgets? the concept of moving one item here and there to check prices serves no purpose in itself, it is just a very slow and rather annoying means to find the price of the item.
>>"1. Press the "Cargo" tab.
2. Press the "Sell 100" button.
3. Press the "Sell 10" button.
4. Press the "Sell 1" button 9 times (this takes less time than it sounds, because the mouse can simply be pressed 9 times quickly)."<<
There are a number of reasons this is a BAD thing.
1. it requires more buttons, which ultimately clutter the UI
2. it requires some basic math to load/unload specific amounts. This may not sound like a big thing, but when you're tired and playing at 5 AM, it can be a lot more aggrivating than you think.
3. it is slower and more confusing than an inputbox when selling odd amounts.
4. Lastly, because I said so
I'd rather see the cargo menu have a load/unload tab which looks essentially like the jettison menu, but with two menus side-by-side for unloading/loading (of course with some modifications, such as the ability to select several cargoes, and additional functionality buttons at the bottom)
2. Press the "Sell 100" button.
3. Press the "Sell 10" button.
4. Press the "Sell 1" button 9 times (this takes less time than it sounds, because the mouse can simply be pressed 9 times quickly)."<<
There are a number of reasons this is a BAD thing.
1. it requires more buttons, which ultimately clutter the UI
2. it requires some basic math to load/unload specific amounts. This may not sound like a big thing, but when you're tired and playing at 5 AM, it can be a lot more aggrivating than you think.
3. it is slower and more confusing than an inputbox when selling odd amounts.
4. Lastly, because I said so
I'd rather see the cargo menu have a load/unload tab which looks essentially like the jettison menu, but with two menus side-by-side for unloading/loading (of course with some modifications, such as the ability to select several cargoes, and additional functionality buttons at the bottom)
Ayn, I am ever so glad that you "are agree with" Deku. That means you can reap both the insult and the material benefit from my post: rather than downing 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll have taken care of 4!
My post (1) pokes fun at someone who says they're leaving the game because they can't do (2) exactly what my post tells them how to do. I should do both of those because (a) it would be remiss of me to not deter people from attempting to exercise that "nuclear option" as a method of change, at least for such petty crap, and because (b) if Deku is genuinely worried about this element of functionality, I have made him able to do it.
Also, if insulting readers should result in banning, I would propose you be banned along with me. Inflicting your writing on us is an ongoing insult to all =P
Terjekv, however, makes a great point. I would really like for prices to be listed, or at least be able to inquire with a station guard or at the command line (/updatestation showprice helio)
My post (1) pokes fun at someone who says they're leaving the game because they can't do (2) exactly what my post tells them how to do. I should do both of those because (a) it would be remiss of me to not deter people from attempting to exercise that "nuclear option" as a method of change, at least for such petty crap, and because (b) if Deku is genuinely worried about this element of functionality, I have made him able to do it.
Also, if insulting readers should result in banning, I would propose you be banned along with me. Inflicting your writing on us is an ongoing insult to all =P
Terjekv, however, makes a great point. I would really like for prices to be listed, or at least be able to inquire with a station guard or at the command line (/updatestation showprice helio)
Not banning, but Being Nice is important if you want to contribute to this forum. Regardless of what others do, mind you. That's what one would call 'manners'.
Lecter: sure, if you want to SELL all but some of your cargo, your way works fine, but say you want to unl;oad some of it at a station which doesn't sell it? you can't just sell it then buy more, and you can't unload or load only part of it, so you're rather stuck.
AND YES! I want to be able to inquire of goods/prices from space. Hell, while we're at it, I'd like to be able to 'build' a trading map. (ie. as I explore various stations and inquire of goods and prices, to have the data add itse;f to the navigation map, so selecting a station sector will show what is boughyt/sold there, and for what price (as of my last update)).
AND YES! I want to be able to inquire of goods/prices from space. Hell, while we're at it, I'd like to be able to 'build' a trading map. (ie. as I explore various stations and inquire of goods and prices, to have the data add itse;f to the navigation map, so selecting a station sector will show what is boughyt/sold there, and for what price (as of my last update)).