on a personal note (since I can't send personal notes), thanks, that made my day a bit brighter. :-)

on topic, repeat kills? if I didn't know the player, I'd avoid more than one kill unless I asked for a duel or somesuch. people like UPN on the other hand, heck, if they want to throw themselves at a quad adv rail Hornet, I'll be happy to sit still and pop. =)

but yeah, I can't really do the repeat thing against someone who wants out either. I've had one event like that, it was more than enough. people are entitled to their share of the fun too. the trick is to try to make as many people have as much fun as possible, which doesn't always lead to you having the most fun yourself. like watching other people pop UPN. it just wasn't the same.

I havent.

Actually Fm it was your tone about this entire situation that left me no option but to leave my old chars behind (I cannot leave the game behind, i guess im a sap)

Log off? WTF? and im sorry, even John admits A'troll'e (sorry, i am drunk, it is a type o) is a [DELETED - FM], id love to see inside the moderator forum right now though.

Cos he is alpha and been here a log time, bullshit, the guy is ramming busses into people to make them lose standing? please lock this thread, I already sent an email, but either a) they have read it and dont know what to say about you acting like a [DELETED -FM] too b) there is a technical problem.

I know (because i saw it for myself, although i know you dont know this) you called me a *moron* once, you should try being on the recieving end of Arolte, or someone like him, he isnt the reason im being a dickhead now.

(I was going to be the better man, and not respond at all, and let it be known now *most* of blak had nothing to do with the origonal mute of Arolte, we ALL dont like him.)

yodaofborg (none blak, never has been. CLM for life!)

[edit]

This incoherant post was brought to you by Beer(tm) *getting ugly women layed since 1698

[edit 2]

Please tell me now though if you do infact think i should leave.

[edit 3]

I'd love to know how many of these exploits or bad game features that he has used, he has actually reported.

no since early alpha, i guess. actually i didn't consider arolte's/khral's station nuking and mining as "griefing". it was fun to nuke back ;)

/maso

I edited yoda's post in prep for answering it (violating my own rule that I would just delete flames outright), but I had to do something else for a bit. When I came back I realized that I would be answering a drunken post I don't entirely understand. We can chat about this sometime when you are lucid, yoda.

See the IA site for Incarnate's post today that addresses some of your concerns about Arolte.

I don't want you, or anyone else, to leave. I'd rather we all just worked together to solve the core issues. Defining and dealing with "outlaw" behavior is a major challenge in any MMORPG. We're going to have to do better than the games that have come before us if we want to get this right.

Is it wrong for me to be laughing my head off at Yoda's post?

The games premise to me demands that you have the right to do almost anything in game. It was intended to be a "non-consentual" pvp game right? So regardless of wether or not these people who complain about stuff happening to them, what he's doing is within the style of the game. He does not need to get permission to attack newbies, he does not need permission to station camp, as you've all said, let the community police him themselves, but do it in-game, don't cry to mommy (devs) when the game doesn't go in your favor (complainers). Yes, the faction system needs work, but that was known before this started. No spam-&-run is not a game flaw, and is a valid tactic that you need to learn to love or live with. There are entire guilds ready to police people who greif and IMO that's how this all should have been handles. I am aware that you've all tried, but he always seems to evade you, for the most part. Good, he's got just as good a chance of getting away from you as you do of exacting your revenge or VENDETTA. This is not a carebear game.

see the word i used monitored out when i use it about myself but not anyone else? No ? let me point it out.

[quote]

even John admits A'troll'e (sorry, i am drunk, it is a type o) is a [DELETED - FM] <-- same word was here.

say about you acting like a [DELETED -FM] too <-- same here too.

he isnt the reason im being a dickhead now <-- still there.. hmmm.

Hows about you guys email me eh? because i HAVE tried emailing you, from the same email address i used before. (is it spam filtered now?)

FM, if you dont have access yodaofborg (at) hotmail (dot) com .

[Edit]

David-Om, the tree thumping bloke. (he said i could call him that) said publicly on channel 100 that this is all BLAKs fault, let it be known that BLAK isnt here, and its still happening. (correct me if im wrong on this, but isnt that Ku?)

Yoda

The issue isn't whether or not you say "dickhead", but that you aren't flaming others with it.

I'm not sure I could have made a decision regarding how to handle your post that you would not have criticised.

ill add my 2 cents and i have never been grieved

Someone attempted to grief me once a while back...

I think it was well deserved after a few buddies and I station camped him for a while. That was probably the most brutal thing I've ever participated in. It was fun though...

A bit off the topic, but hey, I started the thread and I feel I must respond to yoda...to explain a friend who isn't here's position and right a misunderstood statement from the chats...

Wandering Tree Thumper David-Om didn't say that BLAK was the cause of the whole shebang...just that it seemed odd that a whole guild dissolves after a lot of rumors flying around about a monkey trial and a guy who seemed OK to hisself...

Something like...if 1 person who seems to be the target of a propaganda smear stays in the game and most of a guild leaves (many posts on BLAKS end) perhaps forced out of the game...who seems like the guilty party(ies) in the end...The end is not yet apparantly...

David Om Tree Thumper had no real information...just a distrust of the loudest shouters. In principle it lines up to 'he who smelt it...' or something like that.

I started this thread to be a chance for people who aren't so bothered by what at the time seemed to be a 'OUTLAWED' behavior to speak up, and tell how it may have improved their game experience. I did this in the hopes that certain tactics wouldn't be stolen from the game. To show a rightful place as it were...

I was hassled as a new newb, and it taught me a respect for running, keeping my nose clean, avoiding a few violent areas, and gave me a reason to be a better pilot, find friends in the community, and even trust and find the better part of the game.

Oh...and REVENGE! (my first player kill as Papa was one who hassled me a bit...felt so good!)

Arolte never hassled me personally...He even offered to help me in a moth run out of Grey space thru B8...I chatted with him...he seemed as even keeled as any of us...I can see why David-Om may see the same qualities as I did and wonder why so many PROS would spend so much time trying to get some strange justice out of the whole thing. I can also see why after 5 days of people who never met Arolte were hating him in public chat on a few peoples say so. I'm sure David-Om was just sick of the endless slams in channel 100 and snapped out something to get people to THINK before they join in a possible witch hunt. (These chatters didn't say that they had been a target...and never did, when asked if they had been.)

I still don't know the outcome of these events...Members of Blak have resurfaced as Alts...Arolte as I can Identify him is absent. Is it still happening now...just quietly?

After everything..I wonder if it was all a long standing Vendetta from some events in Alpha, Beta or Days long past...as if it was any of my business in the first place.

The public at large doesn't care or even know anymore...at least in the chats...newbs are staying in the game...the game itself has changed to discourage...
(I hear so many people complaining about Strike forces now...I just chuckle. Beware of the wish...)

My can of worms are squished...BUT

(Respectfully)..The Truth is Out There.
I will never know it.

Read Down!

...except to say that if you are referring to me when you referred to a guide, you are incorrect. I did briefly discuss the matter as Whistler in-game in response to somebody else that was already commenting on the matter. Whistler is my player character. Unless you all would like to subsidize my Vendetta subscription, I do get to express myself (as Whistler)from time to time just like everyone else.

If he was referring to you I think this would be why.

[Removed]

Regardless of wether or not it is your player char, you are seen as a guide and as such are looked up to. You should be careful what you say one way or the other. I would think on an issue such as the one that went on it would have been wise to be impartial. But then I'm not a guide.

I really should have stopped caching every one of my in-game chat logs it's eating up my hard drive....

"Um... the "Propaganda campaign", alluded to by a few posters

A) was a number of separate people posting (often in disagreement with one another), there was no single theme, and if you'll look back, while a few members of BLAK did target Arolte, there were just as many who said that he was NOT the issue.

B) was NOT the reason why Arolte left. Arolte left because a group of players (also NOT members of BLAK) griefed him till he left. BLAK was actually against this practice.

I have apologized to Inc for getting so heated in my frustrations, and as he was the target of the threads, and not Arolte, I see no reason for this discussion to continue."

Ah good, at least I know exactly what I said. [Borb had posted a log of what I had actually said in-game. He took it down later in order to avoid re-opening a sore subject]. Thanks for the re-write Shape.

So you think I should continue to pay 6 months at a time, donate countless hours to the website, stop whatever I'm doing in-game to help others (fewer hours than the website, sadly), put up with abuse, AND I get to keep my mouth shut no matter how huge a situation becomes? Wow.

I don't often share my opinions for the reason that you mentioned (though I don't think my pedestal is nearly so high as you imply - people aren't looking up that high), and because if somebody has already said it I see no need to repeat it. In this rare case I did wish to comment. I have a right to do so, and I have no regrets. Having said it, I have said no more on the matter so that we can all focus on the solutions and move on.

I hadn't intended to get into exactly what was said as Whistler for fear of reopening a can of worms. I won't support or discuss my in-game statements as Whistler here. If somebody feels they MUST discuss it with me (as a person, not a guide), we can make other arrangements.

I've edited my post per your request to not reopen an old can of worms.

How ever my point still stands, people know you are a guide and respect what you say and what you do. If you don't like this you should make an alt and don't let any one know he is a guide. Until then many people no matter what you say will have a hard time seeing a difference.

Edit: Guide not Guild, bad sleepy Borb blaming every thing on Guild....

I think you meant guide, but I agree that my known characters will be seen as guides no matter what.

Initially I was anonymous as a guide. There were some users who were quite vocal in their opinion that the Guide (only one back then) should be unmasked. The loudest of those users was Arolte. Funny how these things come full-circle.

Ha, yeah I did me guide, I guess this is a sign I should not be up at 0247 posting to random message boards. Hehe.

Least I learned a little bit more of VO history.