NAPs have always sickened me somewhat. They are, in this game that often prides itself on honour, the only thing that GUARANTEES betrayal. If you want to join up with another team, fine, join up and split the prize. But an honourable fight between the nations should not, in my opinion, be marred by the ugly calculations of who is going to stab who in the back first.

Whenever I have time enough to join Nation Wars from now on (which unfortunately will probably not be very often :/), I will leave any team that creates a NAP. If that means I join the grey team for that war, so be it. If that means I do not participate in that war, so be it. But the time has come to draw a line in the sand, and I can no longer in good conscience support such a system.

NAPs is something quite common in the history of warfare.
To name 2 during the Second World war
Germany and the USSR - They took out dangerous Poland first then waited a bit and took out most of each other.

Japan and the USSR - The NAP lasted for most of the war until after the USSR defeated Germany. The USSR went over to Manchuria and defeated an army of 1 million Japanese in just 8 days.

There is a saying: All is fair in love and (nation) war.

(This post was sponsored by Soon(tm))

"Germany and the USSR - They took out dangerous Poland first then waited a bit and took out most of each other."

You might want to re-read your history books.
Lol'ed at "Dangerous Poland".

Lol'ed at "Dangerous Poland".

Hey, their calvalry was highly effective against the German panzers!

When it started, Nation War included only 3 regular VO nations (no grey teams were present). As far as I can remember NAP-s were always present in one form or the other. It was a matter of calculations and tactics and very often those NAPs backfired.

Whenever one Nation had the biggest numbers or the best fighters, other 2 nations tried to make a NAP and work together. When NAPs were made with Serco teams, they usually backfired because Serco were well known for just hanging back and letting other nations kill as many of each other before engaging anyone.

In reality there is no way to prevent silent NAPs from happening in NW. If one team is perceived as very dangerous others will try to eliminate them first (except Serco who will try to hang back and wait which is far more dishonorable tactics than any NAP).

Only way to prevent any kind of NAPs or lame tactics is if you turn it into a regular war with only 2 warring factions.

are you seriously trying to hate on serco right now? how many times have you itani pansies just turboed around for the whole fight waiting until only a few people where left?

Seriously: the Serco, who love to show up in SCPs, are the guys who refuse to engage?

I do not hate anyone, this is a game.

Lecter & Peytros, you both lack relevant info.

True, no serco player and regular participant in NWs will come forward and willingly admit that was their standard tactics for NWs but... you never know.

I could call upon a few well known and respected serco players to admit to the truth if you want a written confirmation here?

Bojan you've got to be kidding me. Itani in nation war (and elsewhere, I should note) typically hop in uncatchable ships and run like ninnies around the perimeter of the asteroid field until the fighting has mostly died down. Cautious advance is an acceptable tactic of war. Running around in 225 m/s ships is dishonorable, if anything is.

None of my guildmates including me ever did that but, fine, if Itani team does that now it means they are adapting to the current NW style of playing.
When I participated in NWs we usually attacked serco head on and pirates were running around taking potshots at us while we were engaging serco. Maybe Itani learned their lesson and are now playing pirate style?

Whatever, this is just one more argument in favor of turning NW into a real 2 faction wars instead of 4 factions fighting at the same time.

if Itani team does that now it means they are adapting to the current NW style of playing

Unadulterated horseshit.

The last time I played in a NW before this past weekend, the Grey team didn't exist and "pirate style" was a not too subtle reference to Mystic's preferred position.

And back then, the Itani were always "running around taking potshots" at, well, anything that didn't look too scary.

bojan, you are wrong. Back when I used to fly in the Nation Wars more frequently, before there was a pirate team, the Itani would ALWAYS fly around like ninnies in valks. Even when they had comparable numbers to the other teams. Even when they had SKV members with them. Making blanket statements like None of my guildmates including me ever did that is silly when you wouldn't know what they did if were weren't there. Which you weren't.

I will gladly admit that Serco tactics have often been "stay together, wait for them to come to us." You know why? Because we're the group with the frickin' heavies! You know what you call a prom that attacks a group of valks? Scrap metal. Trying to paint the Serco as the ones screwing with NW is ridiculous, when at any time the other teams could (and did!) advance on their position and break apart the group. Whereas there is nothing that is going to catch a running valk, which is, practically to a man, the entire Itani team. The pirates didn't invent that style. You guys did.

Denji,
nobody is screwing with the NW. Teams and players are applying their own tactics as they please. I pointed out one tactic I found lame, nothing more to it.

You have a point when you say that I wouldn't know what they did when I weren't there, my apologies. I went too far in my presumptions.

We could talk about war tactics a lot, but one SKV applied during NWs I played in was quite simple:
attack serco group from multiple vectors, lure and single out some proms out of the group, kill, scatter before other proms catch up to flare you from the back, regroup and do it again.

If you say that is "running around" lame tactics, so be it. I will stand corrected.

Regardless of their strategic importance, my point stands: NAP's in Nation War go against the spirit of the event. While I understand the underdog argument, this week it was clearly NOT the case. This week the teams were evenly matched.

If you want to have a Combat Event against grey we're all for it, but it's not Nation War. People need to play Nation War as it was intended.

PS Itani run like frickin punks. I followed Drazed for 5 minutes and he didn't fire a shot, just flew around the edges. Spidey and Iry are well known for doing the same thing.

Do i smell whining in this thread?

Yoda, shoot me pleaazzzzze : )

Dogfighting in a war is just plain stupid if you want to win.
That is why employ hit and run tactics.

(However, some might not be very good at running and killing at the same time and thus distort the image of our super awesome winning-tactic!)

Edit: Also, I don't care about NAP's. Make Your Own To Pwn.

Bojan,
By "screwing with NW" I basically meant using really lame tactics, as that is the main way of doing so without going the griefer route. And I also recognize that hit and run tactics are an EXTREMELY successful, and quite valid, tactic. The problem is that you then have many of the more active Itan members who turbo around ad nauseum, and that means that whenever one of you hits and runs, the expectation becomes that you're going to keep on running for a couple minutes. Hit and run is fine, as long as you don't forget that there are two verbs in there. I'm not saying that you do. I'm saying that your team almost always does. I long for the days when NWs could happen without 5 solid minutes of chasing around Itani.

I long for the days when NWs could happen without 5 solid minutes of chasing around Itani.

Were those the NWs without any Itani?

I hear you Denji but I do not see a way to "unscrew" NW.

Can you expect anyone to follow rules about not getting NAPs or simply running around or holding back until everyone else is either dead or badly damaged?
As in real life people do lie, cheat, backstab and do whatever they think will give them the upper hand in a war.

You guys are a bunch of whiners, especially the grey team!

This is Nation WAR!!!! Not 1v1 PvP, the rules of WAR apply...

As for the comments about me running around and not taking a shot at anyone for 5 minutes? Yeah, I was running around for a good bit of the fighting, mostly because I was trying to CHASE down the pirates that were running around in Valks (eg. peytros). Additionally, my initial strategy was to bolt towards the grey team and then bolt towards the serco team (hopefully with grey's following me), in hopes of getting them to start firing on each other first thing in the war (this took far less then 5 minutes, more like 40 seconds, and I started firing on grey's as soon as I got in range of the serco group). If you consider this a cheap or dishonorable tactic so be it, I consider it a valid strategic tactic!

Last bit here, in Nation WAR it is RETARDED to go after one ship and make it into a 1v1 PvP fight, WAR is NOT 1v1 PvP and the same rules do NOT apply. When you try to turn WAR into a 1v1 PvP someone will just sneak up behind you and shoot you in the back. If I'm shooting at someone, and you try to sneak up behind me and I switch targets and you don't get a chance to shoot me in the back it's pretty weak that you feel like you've been wronged and cheated. I don't think I've ever seen anyone whine so much over a Nation WAR as I have the grey team.