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If the faction update is aimed at fixing the silly amount of valk pilots
Well, it isn't. The update to the faction system is aimed at fixing the faction system. Go figure.
Well, it isn't. The update to the faction system is aimed at fixing the faction system. Go figure.
Okay you caught me I've never flown a prom, but even if you mean to suggest that the prom is also a generalist combatant I'd have to disagree.
My overriding point is that we could use options, and it seems the vast majority of pilots simply fly valk
My overriding point is that we could use options, and it seems the vast majority of pilots simply fly valk
The Valk is not a generalist. It's got no cargo, and is extremely light, so light that moutning anything other than blasters is going to slow it down dramatically. It's a fighter/interceptor. That what it was designed for, that's what it's used for. The Prom is tank. It's designed to take a lot of damage, deal a lot of damage, and remain light on it's feat. That's how it's used.
Let's look at the stats of the Mk-I versions of both ships:
Valk:
Armor - 9500
Cargo - 2
Weapons - 3 small
Mass - 2900 kilograms
Length - 12 meters
Thrust - 220 newtons
Turbo Thrust - 210 newtons
Max Speed - 65 meters per second
Spin Torque - 7 newton metres
Turbo Speed - 225 meters per second
Turbo Energy - 60 per second
Prom:
Armor - 18,000
Cargo - 32
Weapons - 2 small, 1 large
Mass - 10,000 kilograms
Length - 21 meters
Thrust - 480 newtons
Turbo Thrust - 525 newtons
Max Speed - 65 meters per second
Spin Torque - 9.5 newton metres
Turbo Speed - 200 meters per second
Turbo Energy - 54 per second
I see a dedicated fighter/interceptor (valk) and a fighter/assault/transport combo (prom).
The prom seems to be the more "generalized" ship to me.
Let's look at the stats of the Mk-I versions of both ships:
Valk:
Armor - 9500
Cargo - 2
Weapons - 3 small
Mass - 2900 kilograms
Length - 12 meters
Thrust - 220 newtons
Turbo Thrust - 210 newtons
Max Speed - 65 meters per second
Spin Torque - 7 newton metres
Turbo Speed - 225 meters per second
Turbo Energy - 60 per second
Prom:
Armor - 18,000
Cargo - 32
Weapons - 2 small, 1 large
Mass - 10,000 kilograms
Length - 21 meters
Thrust - 480 newtons
Turbo Thrust - 525 newtons
Max Speed - 65 meters per second
Spin Torque - 9.5 newton metres
Turbo Speed - 200 meters per second
Turbo Energy - 54 per second
I see a dedicated fighter/interceptor (valk) and a fighter/assault/transport combo (prom).
The prom seems to be the more "generalized" ship to me.
The valk is not a generalist. It is a light fighter. It has no heavy ports at all. Can't be a generalist without at least one each, because otherwise your weaponry options are too limited. If you increased the thrusts a good bit and increased the mass proportionately (thereby decreasing sensitivity to equipment mass while retaining the same flight characteristics), and swapped the middle light port for a heavy port, then you'd have a (very overpowered) generalist fighter.
The fact that it is used a lot does not make it generalist. It just means that a lot of people prefer light fighters and interceptors. Being suited for many different tasks is what makes a ship generalist, not popularity. As far as combat goes, the valk is only suited to intercepting and nimble combat styles. It's good at hit and run as well. What it is not good at is holding a position, bombing, and repairing. Nor is it good for extended straight-line chases (chasing in circles, on the other hand, it can do just fine).
For an actual generalist fighter, consider the warthog - jack of all trades, master of none. For an overall general purpose ship: the revenant.
The fact that it is used a lot does not make it generalist. It just means that a lot of people prefer light fighters and interceptors. Being suited for many different tasks is what makes a ship generalist, not popularity. As far as combat goes, the valk is only suited to intercepting and nimble combat styles. It's good at hit and run as well. What it is not good at is holding a position, bombing, and repairing. Nor is it good for extended straight-line chases (chasing in circles, on the other hand, it can do just fine).
For an actual generalist fighter, consider the warthog - jack of all trades, master of none. For an overall general purpose ship: the revenant.
Holy off-topic batman!
Anyways, if the faction changes are made like Inc suggested years ago when this thread was made, then it won't exclude people from buying valks or proms outright, just at the same time.
Meaning: you won't be able to dock at Jallik E-15, buy a shiny new IDF Valkyrie Vigilant with Neut3s, Sunflares, power everything, and leather seats, then prance right through a Serco blockade at the wormhole to Edras without taking a single shot from a capship turret.
Anyways, if the faction changes are made like Inc suggested years ago when this thread was made, then it won't exclude people from buying valks or proms outright, just at the same time.
Meaning: you won't be able to dock at Jallik E-15, buy a shiny new IDF Valkyrie Vigilant with Neut3s, Sunflares, power everything, and leather seats, then prance right through a Serco blockade at the wormhole to Edras without taking a single shot from a capship turret.
Indeed. Though I don't agree with the limiting of a serco/itani pilot being kos with their own nation, being limited to neutral with the opposing faction. There should be at least some benefit to abandoning your own faction, and siding with the enemy.
I really DO think it needs to be hated or KOS. Why would the Serco or Itani let a traitor dock at all?
How about we wait and see what Incarnate decides to do before making a bunch of assumptions?
Either he has decided exactly what he wants to do and further discussion is pointless or he will post a new updated RFC like he said he would and we can go from there.
Either he has decided exactly what he wants to do and further discussion is pointless or he will post a new updated RFC like he said he would and we can go from there.
ARF, I think you misread my post.
Somewhere it was mentioned that if Itani was Itani hated, they could get to Neutral serco, but not beyond it.....and vice versa. I was pointing out the flaw in that logic that then they would have 2 useless faction ratings.
I did not mean to suggest that if they are POS serco they could get to neutral itani.
And I'd like to see an official update towards what they are planning. It won't hurt them to shed some light on it and make sure they aren't going to face a player backlash because they implemented something that only 10% agree with. And until they do so, it doesn't hurt for us to air our concerns.
Somewhere it was mentioned that if Itani was Itani hated, they could get to Neutral serco, but not beyond it.....and vice versa. I was pointing out the flaw in that logic that then they would have 2 useless faction ratings.
I did not mean to suggest that if they are POS serco they could get to neutral itani.
And I'd like to see an official update towards what they are planning. It won't hurt them to shed some light on it and make sure they aren't going to face a player backlash because they implemented something that only 10% agree with. And until they do so, it doesn't hurt for us to air our concerns.
I will post an updated RFC as soon as I can. We were swamped by the unexpected this week. But, on the upside, we're shipped on the Kindle Fire now.
I welcome continued feedback, but let's keep it on topic to the factional issue, and not ship balance or whatever.
I welcome continued feedback, but let's keep it on topic to the factional issue, and not ship balance or whatever.
I think you'll find one of the central concerns to the faction changes are the ship imbalances. That being said, I look forward to an official update.
Exactly what I was about to say Savet.
Ship availability,
Sector Access
Docking rights etc..
All things we need to address, not just how standing works. Its a system that its interwoven with every area and I haven't seen much discussion about it besides that it will just stay the same and the standing system will change. There will be some chilling effects from those changes, they should be discussed.
Ship availability,
Sector Access
Docking rights etc..
All things we need to address, not just how standing works. Its a system that its interwoven with every area and I haven't seen much discussion about it besides that it will just stay the same and the standing system will change. There will be some chilling effects from those changes, they should be discussed.
It could help if there were equivalents for both factions; a serco dog-fighter and an Itani tank, for example, tuned to each factions specific traits.
Itani have plenty of tanks: the Taur, Rag, and Rev.
As for the Serco dogfighter: SVG. Though the Prom can dogfight just fine in its own right.
As for the Serco dogfighter: SVG. Though the Prom can dogfight just fine in its own right.
Itani have plenty of tanks: the Taur, Rag, and Rev.
As for the Serco dogfighter: SVG. Though the Prom can dogfight just fine in its own right.
What he said. This issue has been discussed to death on past threads (and probably on this one, historically). Plus, a big part of the goal of fixing the faction system is to allow the respective sides to retain some degree of unique-ness. That's also why there are six character slots.
As for the Serco dogfighter: SVG. Though the Prom can dogfight just fine in its own right.
What he said. This issue has been discussed to death on past threads (and probably on this one, historically). Plus, a big part of the goal of fixing the faction system is to allow the respective sides to retain some degree of unique-ness. That's also why there are six character slots.
Okay, so bad examples. Having more faction-specific ships after the faction change is still a good idea.
The Taur, Rag, and Rev are all generic, can be bought by anyone, from any nation. A serco can waltz into Eo and buy them.
Then you have faction-specific analogues (more armor, ports, and cargo but less speed and maneuverability for Serco and less armor, ports, and cargo but more speed and maneuverability for Itani) that can only be bought by players with good standing with that faction, with slightly different specialties (the Itani version of the Rev or Atlas could be adapted to carry less cargo, but carry it faster, or the Serco version of the Bus might have two S ports instead of one, with more armor, making it a more efficient miner and fighter).
The Taur, Rag, and Rev are all generic, can be bought by anyone, from any nation. A serco can waltz into Eo and buy them.
Then you have faction-specific analogues (more armor, ports, and cargo but less speed and maneuverability for Serco and less armor, ports, and cargo but more speed and maneuverability for Itani) that can only be bought by players with good standing with that faction, with slightly different specialties (the Itani version of the Rev or Atlas could be adapted to carry less cargo, but carry it faster, or the Serco version of the Bus might have two S ports instead of one, with more armor, making it a more efficient miner and fighter).