Atice: Hahahahaha, you have to kill many many leviathans and many many queens to get the desired drops. The drop rates on those things are quite low. (Unless they've changed it recently?)

I don't kill levi's enough to know the drop rates off-hand, but I know that I've found a bunch of Queen Defense Matrix cores.

As for cash... shit's gotta cost something, you know?

If you people are so worried about the grind, just ask me for one. I've got plenty, and I don't mind selling to CHRN. : P

I think Valent should get this. Like Atice said, they have nothing of value. Their maud is ok, but not really worth the grind.

To solve the problem with nation space wh blockading, after two-three uses the nation you're in will pick up the instability and send NPC strike force. This would make it possible for people to use it in nation space, just not to any extreme extent.

Edit: You'd be able to use the destabilizer once every, say, ten minutes* to avoid detection, but no more.

*Estimate

To solve the problem with nation space wh blockading, after two-three uses the nation you're in will pick up the instability and send NPC strike force. This would make it possible for people to use it in nation space, just not to any extreme extent.

The way I envision it, they'd send the strike forces as soon as an in-sector bot reports you. And hell, if I really had my way, if you passed any boarder protections, they'd scan your loadout, see you were carrying one, and send the guys out immediately. I imagine this as a weapon meant to be used in lawless space. But hell, that kinda detail is up to the devs anyways.

OP Changelog: Edited OP to make the weapon a large-port item. I think that was clear given the description, but I realized I never actually stated it.

I have tons of bot drops from before the rates were nerfed, as do, I think, a lot of vets. The point is that the current drop rates are really low and I hate to see this game go the way of giving rich players and vets more and more pvp advantage.

then let's up the drop rates? I don't see why they are so low now. Subject for another thread though.

Things are going towards manufacturing though (slowly)... and we can't really prevent progress because others have a slight advantage. The more manufacturing we have, the sooner that advantage will be made moot (since people will spend their stockpiles).

You are arguing dishonestly, again.

The drops rates are what they are and you need to make your suggestions accordingly.

Adding a PvP device to the game which only those who are willing to grind (and, in the medium term, vets) can afford is not progress. It is completely against what this game is about.

Eek. I'm not trying to argue dishonestly anywhere in this thread.

I did make my suggestion accordingly. There is no rare item that fits what I want perfectly, so I used what was available to me. If the community feels that said rare item(s) should be slightly less rare... I have no qualms with that. That is all I was trying to say.

Adding a PvP device to the game which only those who are willing to grind (and, in the medium term, vets) can afford...

Maalik, have you been reading a single thing I've been saying? I don't expect the people who buy this to be the people who grind. I expect the people who grind to be rewarded by being able to sell the results of their hard work to people like you. And it really isn't that hard to make a few bucks in VO, so I don't see how player-determined prices would be a problem. Moreover, the power that this device gives you should not be easily obtained. Do you have a better suggestion for a construction list, or do you just feel like endlessly harping on this single point without offering an alternative?

Moreover, the power that this device gives you should not be easily obtained.

Usually around here we balance PvP in terms of PvP, not grind. So long as you try to break this tradition I will call you on it.

If I don't grind for bot drops then I have to grind for credits. See? And saying "and it really isn't that hard to make a few bucks in VO" contradicts your stated desire for rarity. I'm going to call such contradictions dishonesty, but if you want to posit another theory, be my guest. Waving your hand and instead of changing your ingredient list, saying that we should change the drop rates for the items you chose on a whim, is evil. I'd have thought you could do better.

But, since you asked for an alternative list I'll suggest two things. Either (boringly) use something less rare like just a single Queen core instead of the QDMs and Leviathan stuff, or (intriguingly) have a bunch (10+) of the devices manufactured at a time and require only a single QDM for the bot drop part of the list.

I guess you should require some ore too...

This leaves the device itself to be balanced but I'll worry about that later. :P

Let's go through this point-by-point:

Usually around here we balance PvP in terms of PvP

I agree with you. However, this item is not just for PvP. It has so much more potential outside of PvP, related to trade, extortion, PvE, etc that it should require interaction with the verse outside of pure player interaction.

If I don't grind for bot drops then I have to grind for credits. See? And saying "and it really isn't that hard to make a few bucks in VO" contradicts your stated desire for rarity.

I completely disagree. Just because it isn't insanely difficult to come up with the ~2-5mil I expect these ingredients will cost, doesn't mean it isn't difficult to actually grind for these ingredients. As you yourself professed, it does take a certain number of hours (not to mention players working together) to make these items readily available (except for those who might already have stockpiles, but I addressed that issue in an earlier post). As such, the items would still be more rare than if I had just taken your "boring" route of using a single Queen core.

Waving your hand and instead of changing your ingredient list, saying that we should change the drop rates for the items you chose on a whim, is evil.

And here I thought the Bush days were over ;). I have changed the ingredient list to reflect prior concerns, but I strongly disagree (as do many of the prior posters in this thread) that the current list is too grind-heavy given the capabilities. Some of your CHRN buddies agree that this list is just fine as-is... so it's not like I'm trying to single you guys out either (you hinted that I might be earlier). Additionally, my comment on drop rates wasn't directed at making this guy easier to produce (as I said in my previous post), but was a general comment on bot drops as a general principal. I still don't believe there is another drop that would suffice to make the machine rare enough, while (most importantly encouraging as much player interaction.

I'll suggest two things... [you could] (intriguingly) have a bunch (10+) of the devices manufactured at a time and require only a single QDM for the bot drop part of the list.

For any other weapon/manufacturable, I completely agree with you, as can be verified by many posts of mine on the matter. However, I really don't think that 10+ of these should be manufacturable from only a single QDM. Maybe I'd go for 10+ of these if I went back to requiring one of each Levi core... but I think everyone agreed that's just too much of a pain. Again, this kind of device should not be easy to come across, and as it isn't just a PvP weapon (and I'll submit to you that it really isn't a weapon in and of itself), I don't see a problem with that.

I guess you should require some ore too...

Ore is for suckers. Seriously, though, I think the list as-is is pretty comprehensive.

This leaves the device itself to be balanced but I'll worry about that later.

What's currently imbalanced about it? It is heavy enough to A) prevent an incredibly easy escape with it and B) make it more of a team "weapon" (as well it should be). It lasts long enough to do destroy just about any unsuspecting trade ship. It doesn't allow infinite tag-teaming unless you get a lot of players involved (again, as well it should be). It doesn't allow you to put more than a single energy-wep on the same ship, which again points towards teamwork. Where is there a problem here?

I feel like the discussion is put at a serious disadvantage by your limited acquaintance with what you are suggesting. Before you posted this you had to ask on 100 what if anything Leviathans dropped, and later in this thread you revealed that you didn't know that the items you listed do not drop 100% of the time. I kindly request that you gather 1 Leviathan drop and 2 QDMs and report back on how long and how many people it took to get them. Perhaps things have changed since I last botted. It would be nice if someone who who has a good feel for the current drop rates would chime in here.

I don't understand why you suggest that this is not just a PvP device in a way that say, a posi hog2, is not. Posi hog2s have great potential related to trade, extortion, PvE, etc., so if you could elaborate on that, I'd appreciate it. I see no reason why the device itself could not have weaknesses sufficient to balance its deployment. Making it rare just means that poor pirates like me would choose not to spend the credits and time necessary to acquire one. I don't think you want that. I think you want this device to be used by those who could benefit from it.

You could make this rare by requiring only Artemis cores if you required enough of them.. There's nothing special about QDMs and Levianthan drops with regards to attaining the rarity you desire.

Saying that something can be difficult to obtain, desirable, and relatively inexpensive is nonsensical.

Manufacturing is an excellent way to tie together Vendetta's three main activities: combat, mining, and trading. Mining is not for suckers and, as you suggested with the bot drops, creating an incentive for players to trade items is good and fun.

How hard is it really to come up with a few million credits, and buy a few cores from someone? Everything has a price. Money is nothing in this game. I think Atice is trying to make a device that isn't available to the poor pirates or anyone at all, but make it a rare thing.

Maal, I did my research. I know that the items I wanted don't drop 100% of the time. What I didn't know was how rare they supposedly are (and honestly, I'd take Conflict Diamond's expertise here over yours, unless you spend your time with the hive...). Either way, however, levi cores are currently not used for anything, and since they require teamwork, I want them on the manufacturing list. Many people have commented that they like the use of levi cores... yours is the only strong objection I've found here.

Posi Hog2s, while awesome, do not have the potential to bring multiple ships to a grinding halt or stop entire convoys (even for a matter of seconds) on their own. You damn well know this. As for the device itself being balanced enough to make the list less grind-worthy... I don't think you can balance it enough to do that. We're talking about a device that when used in concert with others can bring trade as we know it to a halt. If you think you can balance that, go ahead. Until then, I'll take your comments as a -1.

You could make this rare by requiring only Artemis cores if you required enough of them.. There's nothing special about QDMs and Levianthan drops with regards to attaining the rarity you desire.

Bull. QDMs maybe, but Levi drops REQUIRE teamwork to obtain. I'm trying to encourage that (or have you not read any of my prior posts?).

Saying that something can be difficult to obtain, desirable, and relatively inexpensive is nonsensical.

I agree, and I haven't said that. Define "relatively inexpensive". There is a lot of time involved in the device's creation, even if you didn't put in that time. If money is the issue, then deal. Seriously. I'm tired of people complaining that there is too much money in VO, then complaining when expensive things are put in the game.

Manufacturing is an excellent way to tie together Vendetta's three main activities: combat, mining, and trading. Mining is not for suckers and, as you suggested with the bot drops, creating an incentive for players to trade items is good and fun.

Was a joke (re the "for suckers"). I honestly think that the level of grind required is currently at a good level. If you really, really want to get mining involved, go make your own manufacturing list.

Oh, and re: Making it rare just means that poor pirates like me would choose not to spend the credits and time necessary to acquire one.

Cool. So less poor pirates will use it, and you can team up with them to shoot things that they trap, cause you probably have better aim than they do anyways.

Hi.

"Moreover, killing one levi and a few queens isn't THAT mind-numbing" contradicts "I know that the items I wanted don't drop 100% of the time." Maybe it's not something that is worth pointing out but to me it captures your thought process well. After talking to you about this via pm, I'm really not sure what you hope to achieve.

A device that prevents people from escaping sounds like something that (among others) pirates would want to use so it seems unfair that your manufacturing list would curtail its use by them. Indeed, such a device would be a excellent addition to everyday PvP. In the long run, with capships and such, there will be much added to the game that is expensive and exclusive, but I really feel like you went too far with your materials list here. If you feel strongly about the use of Leviathan drops then we could, of course, have many made in a batch as, I mentioned before.

And my apologies if I'm mistaken but you seemed to agree when we talked via pm that a device in this vein could be self-balanced if the person using it was relatively easily killed. This could be achieved if the ship using it had its max speeds reduced or something similar.

Maal, please stop wrestling with the pig - you're just getting dirty, and he probably likes it.

-1

Weapons that could give an advantage for pvp should rely only on player pvp skills
make it a kind of concussion rail gun (same autoaim characteristic no splash radius) that can prevent only the targeted ship from jumping during 20s and i will give ye a +1

Though me still thinks devs have better things to do : )

The only advantage is that you cannot run away from PvP by jumping through the WH. No repair gun like application to specific targets needed or appropriate.

/me gets the plant shears

Yeah, you could still run away with sector warps so thats no big deal, but yeah, you been bumped on the head recently BT?

this plant has no head ye sucking fail @ RP : )

PS: feel free to drop by H2 to kiss my bulb yodie hunny : ]