Forums » Suggestions
In the light of what happened earlier today, I had some thoughts to help mitigate the recent problems of threads spinning out of control that Inc spoke of.
Throughout the history of VO, /vote mute has proved numerous times to be an effective in-game tool for the community to self-moderate, much lessening the need for devs or guides to become involved in petty, pointless conflicts, wasting their precious time.
I propose that the same functionality be instituted for the forums. Probably not in the form of a command that you type into a console, but as an additional link in the posts that you can click (next to reply, edit, delete, etc).
Throughout the history of VO, /vote mute has proved numerous times to be an effective in-game tool for the community to self-moderate, much lessening the need for devs or guides to become involved in petty, pointless conflicts, wasting their precious time.
I propose that the same functionality be instituted for the forums. Probably not in the form of a command that you type into a console, but as an additional link in the posts that you can click (next to reply, edit, delete, etc).
-1 They have moderators for that. If they need more, I'm sure they can find someone. In game is different. There are spammers and such that devs can't handle on an immediate basis. I'll be damned of my free speech is cut off by a bunch of butthurt sissies. If Whistler or any other moderator mutes someone fine. But this playerbase is not trustworthy enough to handle who is allowed to speak.
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this playerbase is not trustworthy enough to handle who is allowed to speak.
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There is so much I would normally say, but for the sake of simmering things down I'll just leave it at: -1
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There is so much I would normally say, but for the sake of simmering things down I'll just leave it at: -1
There is so much I would normally say
And that there is precisely the problem.
And that there is precisely the problem.
I'll be damned of my free speech is cut off by a bunch of butthurt sissies.
Are you sure you've thought this one through? If this is implemented, the power of temporarily muting wouldn't be placed in any individual hands, but the community as a whole. If I'm muted by a handful of players, I'd feel the mute is more justified than if I was muted by a single overly pious moderator who cringes at every use of the word "shit."
As in /vote mute, abusing the feature will result in your privileges revoked. So far, a few people abused /vote mute, and they were punished. I don't see why the forum situation has to be any different. Also, the number of votes can be adjusted as needed to overcome the few overly sensitive butthurt individuals problem.
Remember, the point of this is NOT to deny anyone the freedom of speech. After the mute period is over, you can still come back on to say whatever was on your mind pertaining to the topic at hand. This is not about preventing you from saying whatever you want, but to encourage you to say it the right way. Without hurling pointless insults, unnecessary references to human sexuality, etc etc.
Are you sure you've thought this one through? If this is implemented, the power of temporarily muting wouldn't be placed in any individual hands, but the community as a whole. If I'm muted by a handful of players, I'd feel the mute is more justified than if I was muted by a single overly pious moderator who cringes at every use of the word "shit."
As in /vote mute, abusing the feature will result in your privileges revoked. So far, a few people abused /vote mute, and they were punished. I don't see why the forum situation has to be any different. Also, the number of votes can be adjusted as needed to overcome the few overly sensitive butthurt individuals problem.
Remember, the point of this is NOT to deny anyone the freedom of speech. After the mute period is over, you can still come back on to say whatever was on your mind pertaining to the topic at hand. This is not about preventing you from saying whatever you want, but to encourage you to say it the right way. Without hurling pointless insults, unnecessary references to human sexuality, etc etc.
-1. I agree with joylessjoker's above comments. However, I do not actually support this suggestion.
The forum is not the game. In-game spam directly impacts your ability to communicate with others while playing the game, requiring everybody in the affected channel to take action (whether ignoring the spammer or leaving the channel). Quickly halting the spam at its source is therefor important. Ten vets using /vote mute entails significantly less energy expenditure and frustration than a hundred mobile newbies trying to figure out how to use /ignore.
Forum spam, on the other hand, does not disrupt gameplay. At most, it impacts your ability to communicate outside the game, which is far less critical.
Another big difference between the game's chat and the forum is speed of chat vs. moderator reaction time. Chat happens quickly, and moderators are present infrequently. Giving the players tools to self-moderate makes sense, because moderators simply aren't going to be able to help in a timely manner until GS can afford to hire enough of them to keep at least one present 24/7. But on the forum things happen much less rapidly. In the time it would take for somebody to be offensive enough to bug us and for enough of us to see that offensive content and vote to mute them, a moderator is likely to also have seen the content and taken action if they feel it is warranted. Therefor it wouldn't serve much purpose to give us those tools unless you don't trust the moderators to be harsh enough. I for one am not concerned about the moderators being too soft; the reverse, if anything.
So as far as I'm concerned, implementing the OP would be a wast of time and add unnecessary complexity to the forum (more ways it can break, and more code to look over when auditing).
The forum is not the game. In-game spam directly impacts your ability to communicate with others while playing the game, requiring everybody in the affected channel to take action (whether ignoring the spammer or leaving the channel). Quickly halting the spam at its source is therefor important. Ten vets using /vote mute entails significantly less energy expenditure and frustration than a hundred mobile newbies trying to figure out how to use /ignore.
Forum spam, on the other hand, does not disrupt gameplay. At most, it impacts your ability to communicate outside the game, which is far less critical.
Another big difference between the game's chat and the forum is speed of chat vs. moderator reaction time. Chat happens quickly, and moderators are present infrequently. Giving the players tools to self-moderate makes sense, because moderators simply aren't going to be able to help in a timely manner until GS can afford to hire enough of them to keep at least one present 24/7. But on the forum things happen much less rapidly. In the time it would take for somebody to be offensive enough to bug us and for enough of us to see that offensive content and vote to mute them, a moderator is likely to also have seen the content and taken action if they feel it is warranted. Therefor it wouldn't serve much purpose to give us those tools unless you don't trust the moderators to be harsh enough. I for one am not concerned about the moderators being too soft; the reverse, if anything.
So as far as I'm concerned, implementing the OP would be a wast of time and add unnecessary complexity to the forum (more ways it can break, and more code to look over when auditing).
A free and immediate solution would be for people to hold themselves accountable for their own behavior.
Just a few people are responsible to the recent uptick in drama, and it is clear to me that they are aware of their impact on the community. What might not be apparent to them is this: Every time Incarnate has to come stomp out a flaming poop-bag of drama - that's development time lost. That's a loss for all of us.
Just a few people are responsible to the recent uptick in drama, and it is clear to me that they are aware of their impact on the community. What might not be apparent to them is this: Every time Incarnate has to come stomp out a flaming poop-bag of drama - that's development time lost. That's a loss for all of us.
Equating bojan and SKV to ISIS is so stupidly absurd it couldn't possibly be taken seriously by anyone with half a brain.
It was an unintelligent thing to do and an even more unintelligent thing to respond to.
We need a more robust forum system but not because of stupid idiots just for general reasons of being a modern community.
It was an unintelligent thing to do and an even more unintelligent thing to respond to.
We need a more robust forum system but not because of stupid idiots just for general reasons of being a modern community.
A free and immediate solution would be for people to hold themselves accountable for their own behavior.
Clearly this is not possible for some people. So there are two options: ignore them, or respond to them.
It would seem the preference of Incarnate is for them to be ignored rather than responded to. Alas, human nature!
Clearly this is not possible for some people. So there are two options: ignore them, or respond to them.
It would seem the preference of Incarnate is for them to be ignored rather than responded to. Alas, human nature!
People say stupid shit and I respond "Hey you, dumbass. You're saying stupid shit." If vote mute ever does get passed I'm creating 20 accounts to vote mute everybody
I look up to people that are able to drive a point home without resorting to swearing. It shows maturity and intelligence. That doesn't make me pious, neither do I cringe at swear words. I've found it to be a mark of successful people.
What does make me cringe sometimes is the thought of my son wandering through these forums. There have been times I've been proud of the entire VO community, but recently the quality seems to have slipped as Inc pointed out in a different thread. My feeling is we're better than this. From that point of view I've had to take the approach of being grossly lenient. I'm not the most outspoken player, but that doesn't mean I don't watch and listen.
Also, as Whistler stated some time ago, this isn't a "free speech zone". It's up to Inc to determine how much authority to give to Whistler and the rest of the guides based on his community objectives, and if having a /vote mute feature on the forums falls in line with those goals.
I agree with Whistler that self restraint would go a long way, in the meantime. In practice, however, it seems that some are capable of this and some are not.
My suggestion is until we get a /vote mute feature, think three times before posting. That's not too dissuade people from contributing constructively (we need more of that), but there's a saying: "does it need to be said, does it need to be said by me, does it need to be said by me now?". It may seem quaint, but for those struggling with self-restraint try putting this checklist through its paces.
What does make me cringe sometimes is the thought of my son wandering through these forums. There have been times I've been proud of the entire VO community, but recently the quality seems to have slipped as Inc pointed out in a different thread. My feeling is we're better than this. From that point of view I've had to take the approach of being grossly lenient. I'm not the most outspoken player, but that doesn't mean I don't watch and listen.
Also, as Whistler stated some time ago, this isn't a "free speech zone". It's up to Inc to determine how much authority to give to Whistler and the rest of the guides based on his community objectives, and if having a /vote mute feature on the forums falls in line with those goals.
I agree with Whistler that self restraint would go a long way, in the meantime. In practice, however, it seems that some are capable of this and some are not.
My suggestion is until we get a /vote mute feature, think three times before posting. That's not too dissuade people from contributing constructively (we need more of that), but there's a saying: "does it need to be said, does it need to be said by me, does it need to be said by me now?". It may seem quaint, but for those struggling with self-restraint try putting this checklist through its paces.
People say stupid shit and I respond "Hey you, dumbass. You're saying stupid shit." If vote mute ever does get passed I'm creating 20 accounts to vote mute everybody
That's what your TGFT friends tried in-game and guess what, they got spanked big time by inc. Such naughty little kids! They vote-muted everyone in SKV for no reason other to stop them from communicating with each other in guild chat and coordinating attacks on stations. This is why TGFT is the scum of the VO 'verse, and SKV is not.
Anyway, the point is that abuse does get handled. You making 20 accounts to vote-mute everyone will be found out and swiftly dealt with in a harsh manner. It would be a shame to lose your subscription after putting alotta green moolah in, eh?
That's what your TGFT friends tried in-game and guess what, they got spanked big time by inc. Such naughty little kids! They vote-muted everyone in SKV for no reason other to stop them from communicating with each other in guild chat and coordinating attacks on stations. This is why TGFT is the scum of the VO 'verse, and SKV is not.
Anyway, the point is that abuse does get handled. You making 20 accounts to vote-mute everyone will be found out and swiftly dealt with in a harsh manner. It would be a shame to lose your subscription after putting alotta green moolah in, eh?
Okay, if /vote mute for forums is not an option, my second suggestion is to institute an immediate policy change for moderator authority/conduct. It's really simple: they should be handing out many more mutes, but those mutes should be very temporary.
Say, an instant 24h forum mute for using a few too many swear words or an unnecessary reference to the male genitalia. Just an example.
See my other post above pointing out that this is NOT about obstructing freedom of speech, but to encourage you to say it the right way. The same points remain. If the moderators start abusing their new-found powers, simply report them to Inc and they will be dealt with.
This time, no code change to audit. More realistic and doable, no? It means less work for moderators, too. It takes a lot less effort to mute someone 24h than to edit his every other post.
Say, an instant 24h forum mute for using a few too many swear words or an unnecessary reference to the male genitalia. Just an example.
See my other post above pointing out that this is NOT about obstructing freedom of speech, but to encourage you to say it the right way. The same points remain. If the moderators start abusing their new-found powers, simply report them to Inc and they will be dealt with.
This time, no code change to audit. More realistic and doable, no? It means less work for moderators, too. It takes a lot less effort to mute someone 24h than to edit his every other post.
I don't understand all this focus on profanity. Profanity is harmless. People who habitually misrepresent others or outright lie are far more toxic to the community than somebody who says 'fuck' too frequently.
"What does make me cringe sometimes is the thought of my son wandering through these forums."
Irrelevant. This game is rated Teen, so your son has no business being here in the first place.
"What does make me cringe sometimes is the thought of my son wandering through these forums."
Irrelevant. This game is rated Teen, so your son has no business being here in the first place.
I don't understand all this focus on profanity. Profanity is harmless. People who habitually misrepresent others or outright lie are far more toxic to the community than somebody who says 'fuck' too frequently.
I can fucking agree with that. However, the fucking point of this thread isn't to pinpoint exactly what's fucking wrong, but how to fucking better mitigate the issues at hand.
I can fucking agree with that. However, the fucking point of this thread isn't to pinpoint exactly what's fucking wrong, but how to fucking better mitigate the issues at hand.
Pizzasgood, your points are well taken (although I'm not sure I would call it "harmless"... to me it's more a question of to what extent is it harmful), and I agree that habitually misrepresenting others is far more harmful. My previous comment wasn't intended as a dig at those who pepper their language; it was more a response to joylessjoker's sidelong comment about a hypothetical "overly pious" moderator. I don't see avoiding profanity as the same thing as being pious at all, nor do I find that that type of attitude is prevalent among guides.
However, it doesn't change my outlook; I still look up to those that are able to drive home a point using clean language.
Also take note of Whistler's comment about Inc's time away from development in responding to drama. That to me is salient. Drama is drama, however you want to package it.
...and that's enough out of me.
However, it doesn't change my outlook; I still look up to those that are able to drive home a point using clean language.
Also take note of Whistler's comment about Inc's time away from development in responding to drama. That to me is salient. Drama is drama, however you want to package it.
...and that's enough out of me.
the fucking point of this thread isn't to pinpoint exactly what's fucking wrong, but how to fucking better mitigate the issues at hand
Than what the fuck are the issues that need to be mitigated. i'll be the first to admit that my behavior is extreme, aggressive, and deserves a mute. Why in the fuck have I not been muted? why haven't groups like SKV been punished for their continued violations of the ROC?
You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items, slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation
You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.
Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.
Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.
I act the way I do in these forums, because judging by the lack of response to others violations of "forum rules", I simply believe that I can, with no consequences. If you aren't going to enforce the ROC, than don't. Delete it. But if you are, than do so with everybody. Don't tiptoe around vets threatening to leave, Phaserlight, be as pious as you please. You're the moderator, you're supposed to be the voice of reason.
i agree that the quality of discussion has devolved into slander and hate-mongering. On every single thread. Almost every single one. I will filter my mouth when i see that other outspoken players coexist on these forums under the same rules. The sad truth, is that there will always be people who have no self control. They will continue to attack individuals and groups, and while this continues, i will continue to establish my points in whatever unfiltered way i please.
Than what the fuck are the issues that need to be mitigated. i'll be the first to admit that my behavior is extreme, aggressive, and deserves a mute. Why in the fuck have I not been muted? why haven't groups like SKV been punished for their continued violations of the ROC?
You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items, slandering another player or impersonating them with the intention of causing harm to that player's reputation
You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules.
Disciplinary issues involving guilds may be addressed with the entire guild. Guilds whose members habitually violate these rules may be issued guild warnings, and can even be permanently disbanded.
Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken. It is therefore the responsibility of the guild leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these rules.
I act the way I do in these forums, because judging by the lack of response to others violations of "forum rules", I simply believe that I can, with no consequences. If you aren't going to enforce the ROC, than don't. Delete it. But if you are, than do so with everybody. Don't tiptoe around vets threatening to leave, Phaserlight, be as pious as you please. You're the moderator, you're supposed to be the voice of reason.
i agree that the quality of discussion has devolved into slander and hate-mongering. On every single thread. Almost every single one. I will filter my mouth when i see that other outspoken players coexist on these forums under the same rules. The sad truth, is that there will always be people who have no self control. They will continue to attack individuals and groups, and while this continues, i will continue to establish my points in whatever unfiltered way i please.
"However, the fucking point of this thread isn't to pinpoint exactly what's fucking wrong, but how to fucking better mitigate the issues at hand."
I don't agree that there is a point to the thread. You're basically asking for more moderation, but Inc just got done saying he's asked the mods for more moderation. How about we wait and see how well the moddier mods actually work out before we ask them to mod even harder?
I don't agree that there is a point to the thread. You're basically asking for more moderation, but Inc just got done saying he's asked the mods for more moderation. How about we wait and see how well the moddier mods actually work out before we ask them to mod even harder?
I agree with rin. Until then how about the arsonist stops complaining about the fires he set and instead stop setting them?
i will continue to establish my points in whatever unfiltered way i please.
Hurling insults don't prove any point except that you're a hothead.
How about we wait and see how well the moddier mods actually work out before we ask them to mod even harder?
Fair enough, pizza.
Hurling insults don't prove any point except that you're a hothead.
How about we wait and see how well the moddier mods actually work out before we ask them to mod even harder?
Fair enough, pizza.