actually most pirates WANTED their targets to surrender the cargo without a fight. on the high seas if you destroy the target ship the cargo (and profit) is now on the bottom of the ocean so your last sentence in that last argument is horribly flawed there phoenix.

However that litle history fact aside, I will agree that the countdown needs to be paused during inveunerable times such as warping. We also need to have station "no fire" areas and the like to make getting to safety somewhat simpler for traders than it is to dock at a station now.
I propose that when the stations have a bot enforced "no combat" zone around them (say maybe a 300M radius from the center of the station structure), the logout in warp bug be repaired at that time. I agree that it is an bug/exploit (to a point) but it is currently serving a similar function to the eventual no fire areas, in that it gives traders an out that doesn't require them to be able to hit that tiny little docking area while under fire and moving at 65-180m/s.

Spellcast, you don't "kill" the ships, you board, kill the people and take the cargo. so therefore my statement was NOT flawed.

actually most pirates prefered not to have to fight their way onto another ship. it's awful hard to spend your loot if you are dead. pirates were more of a "whats in it for me" group. not many of them wanted to sacrifice themselves so that their mates could get loot. the usual practice was to try to set the sails of the target on fire and pepper the decks with grapeshot to injur the crew from a distance. The goal was almost always to get the victim to surrender. this way you got captives for fun and/or ransom in addition to your cargo. Very few pirates were interested in killing just to kill.

blah blah blah blah. let's get back to the point.

I have yet to witness my prey log off mid warp. they dont get that far.

But i can see how compleatly annoying it can be.

Most traders when I first enter thier radar (2999m) flee to the nearest warp, and by the time I catch up, they're already there, and then they log off mid warp.

"Caedda, your post is incredibly biased and without logic"

Good. I like things biased.
Pirates "Whine whine whine they can still get away to easy"
Cargo "Whine whine whine they can still get me to easy"

The games in developement. Before we mess around more with simple things like logoff times. Maybe we should let things move to so we know who exactly is going to try DOING things like this just to get out of a dead ship. Then if its still a problem fix it later. For now, get some more features in.

I am a heavy trader, and have made millions doing it. Have I ever logged off in a warp, no. I hate how traders act like they can do these things, and then expect pirates to stick to 'rules'

I agree that logoff should be removed from warp and invulnerable times. I also think that there needs to be a 'destroy cargo' option for traders, instead of just exploding and having cargo sitting there. I am a mean trader, I would rather explode and take my cargo with me than see it in pirate hands.

Pirates take for granted that cargo is dropped when in fact it is not a rule, but a feature. There actually was a time when cargo was destroyed along with the player back when it (cargo) was introduced. Deleting that portion of code would force pirates to think twice about who they were pirating. besides, if the cargo is destroyed, and the trader declines the option to jettison, and the pirate kills the trader, who suffers the most losses? not the pirate. the pirate only loses money for used ammo (if necessary). The *trader* loses money for the cargo and ship (with weapons and engine/battery). Sure, the pirates would have less profit, but I think it would encourage less of them to continue pirating.

I would rather see cargo that is dropped because of an explosion have a lower value. Slightly damaged cargo should not be worth the same value.

Pirates would be more inclined to ask for jettison this way as they would get more money.

How about a "Destroy Cargo" key? That way its your choice. You jettison little bits of glowing blue cargo. And, nobody knows if its good or bad but you...

Perhaps, link it to the health of the ship. You jettison the cargo and its perfectly safe... however. If you ship is then destroyed, the cargo self destructs and is now worthless. That way your safety is garunteed if the pirate wants any money out of it.

maybe the key is to learn to run,
thats my main skill, "when the going gets rough, run like a sissy"
it's easy to run away from priates without needing to logoff in warp (which is a exploit)

[quote]Cedda "Perhaps, link it to the health of the ship. You jettison the cargo and its perfectly safe... however. If you ship is then destroyed, the cargo self destructs and is now worthless. That way your safety is garunteed if the pirate wants any money out of it."[/quote]


Okay, I could live with that compromise. The trader still loses the cargo, but the pie rats might think twice about destroying a 50000 credit ship. This would have to cover all of the cargo that the pie rat picked up also as an insurance policy (if you will). You toast the ship and the pirated cargo selfdestructs in the pie rat's cargo hold doing damage to the pie rat's ship.

Yes... I can see the potential for abuse but it would be a good begining. No system is perfect. Perhaps have it keyed to the sector of jettison. Once the cargo or the trader leave the sector, the selfdestruct is disabled on the cargo. Also a scenerio for abuse but again, no system is perfect.

I have tried to be a good pirate. I ask traders to dump their cargo at least twice using a very clear bind. It states unamibguosly that I will only take four widgets and then they may recalim the rest - but if they do not comply, I will destroy them.

Guess how many traders I've killed? Maybe three out of the 100 I've tried to pirate. If you announce that you want their cargo from 2500m away, they will probably be logged or well on their way to a station or WH by the time you catch up to them. So that means you have to be ready to fire as you give them their two chances. During those two chances they almost inevitably drop mines, try to kill you or try to run away. I have had ONE trader drop on command.

So what does this tell me? Traders who whine about "wanting a warning" don't want a warning so they can consider dropping cargo. They want a free distraction for the pirate while they get their act together and try to flee. Why should I give up my best weapon, surprise, when it essentially guarantees my failure?

In fact, I'm going to go make two new characters. One will warn players, and the other will not. I will attempt to pirate 20 people with each, and record the results. Let's take a looksee at what happens, shall we?

So you're complaining because asking them to jettison gives them a fighting chance? If honor was the easy thing to do it wouldn't be worth anything. Honor is respected precisely because of the sacrafice involved in maintaining it.

You're not pirating properly. It's stupid to ask from 2500m away. You're supposed to get within firing range before asking. Either that or get between them and the wh (or station, wherever they're headed.)

Starfisher is right. I've been asking traders to drop their wares 90% of the time. Recently Ive even had a few jettison, then turn back on me and try to kill me. This always ends in tears.

If I ask a trader to jettison, and they don't, but somehow make it to the wormhole and log off, I will not ask them to jettison the next time I see them. Beating me to the station, the logging, however, is perfectly fine.

Asking to drop:

1) Warning
2) Trader hears warning, begins to formulate escape plan, starts heading for a way out.
3) Second warning
4) Trader is dropping mines, shooting you, heading for a WH to warplog or heading for a station.

Not asking:

1) Get behind trader
2) Hit with everything you have
3) If trader survives through luck or reaction, its a chase

To make a profit pirating, which do you think works? Asking to drop sure as hell doesn't.

Oh, and the non-ask char I made already has two trader kills with cargo. In twenty minutes I've almost matched my previous monthes profits pirating. Hmm... lesson beginning to be learned...

They never jettison. Ever. Even when you tell them which key it is, how many widgets you want, etc.

I think I'll do something silly and repeat a comment I made elsewhere..

Jettison the cargo as a nuisance to the pirate - if the hitting the cargo at high speeds damages you, this would be a fair compromise for the traders. They will loose their cargo, but might also loose the pirate (Not to mention the whole "less cargo == less mass == better manuvering" - it IS called _physics mode_ right?) Being able to rig your cargo with booby-traps for jettison might also be an option, or simply carry a few units of scrap metal around for the occasion!

[edit] If anyone sees me and my wraith feel free to ask me to drop my load on ya - preferebly pre-flaring!

/G.

I found a trader who jettisoned as soon as you started chasing him... the problem is, he's then alive so as soon as you head back to station for cargo he just picks up the rest of it and takes off again. After a few tries of not killing a ship that dropped it's cargo I've discovered it's best to just blow the bugger up. :( too bad for the trader, heh

As for the logoff, I say it does need to be removed. I've used it once or twice when I had a load of cargo and the parental units needed me to get off (so I didn't have time for a chase) but it really is a lame way of escape.

-outrider