Forums » Suggestions
Having bountied players lose exp. is a really awful idea... having something to lose is all wonderful and great, sure, but there is no excuse at the moment that can justify losing exp., especially combat exp.
Botting is one of the most annoying, stupid, boring, tedious things you can possibly do in VO. It's much worse than trading, in fact; at least in trading, I can chat in 100 and not be worried about losing my ship.
I've for a long time advocated a pirate losing money when killed for a bounty. Generally, my suggestion was that the pirate paid all of or half the bounty, because then the pirate cannot possibly profit from letting someone kill him/her. Also, as several of you have so helpfully pointed out, pirates tend not to have much money. This means they aren't going to have the limitless reserves of cash that some traders do, and subsequently, being hit up for a million credits is a big problem for pirates.(Especially if the game system actually sold off equipment owned by the pirate to make up the difference in price if the pirate did not have enough money to pay the bounty - might make a few careless pirates have to run around in a bus for a few hours making money enough to buy back their ship/weapons)
This game has to encourage PvP to succeed, and frankly, having it so that pirates have to keep their licences low just to have a competitive advantage is stupid. More so is to out right punish pirates who actually want to play at high levels. I don't know if anyone here other than me has noticed, but there is a distinct _lack of sanity_ in having to artificially keep one's level low so one can continue to play in a reasonable manner.
I mean, seriously, what happens if *gasp* licences are actually fixed so that high end, powerful weapons actually require high level licences? Hmm, let me think. Suddenly, pirating becomes even more unappealing as a gameplay choice. Amazingly, this might peeve pirates just a tiny bit, as they are now FORCED to lose exp. at every turn; first they're losing it killing other players in the course of pirating, second they're losing it any time a bounty is collected. Oh, wait, that's how it is already. Sorry, pirates, but it looks like you're just SoL today.
Botting is one of the most annoying, stupid, boring, tedious things you can possibly do in VO. It's much worse than trading, in fact; at least in trading, I can chat in 100 and not be worried about losing my ship.
I've for a long time advocated a pirate losing money when killed for a bounty. Generally, my suggestion was that the pirate paid all of or half the bounty, because then the pirate cannot possibly profit from letting someone kill him/her. Also, as several of you have so helpfully pointed out, pirates tend not to have much money. This means they aren't going to have the limitless reserves of cash that some traders do, and subsequently, being hit up for a million credits is a big problem for pirates.(Especially if the game system actually sold off equipment owned by the pirate to make up the difference in price if the pirate did not have enough money to pay the bounty - might make a few careless pirates have to run around in a bus for a few hours making money enough to buy back their ship/weapons)
This game has to encourage PvP to succeed, and frankly, having it so that pirates have to keep their licences low just to have a competitive advantage is stupid. More so is to out right punish pirates who actually want to play at high levels. I don't know if anyone here other than me has noticed, but there is a distinct _lack of sanity_ in having to artificially keep one's level low so one can continue to play in a reasonable manner.
I mean, seriously, what happens if *gasp* licences are actually fixed so that high end, powerful weapons actually require high level licences? Hmm, let me think. Suddenly, pirating becomes even more unappealing as a gameplay choice. Amazingly, this might peeve pirates just a tiny bit, as they are now FORCED to lose exp. at every turn; first they're losing it killing other players in the course of pirating, second they're losing it any time a bounty is collected. Oh, wait, that's how it is already. Sorry, pirates, but it looks like you're just SoL today.
It would seem to me that an easy way of doing bounties, forgetting everything that we've been talking about would be to run the whole thing off of your total player kills. Put the top 10 from each faction in a "Most Wanted" list. Rank the number one killer as a million, and then break it down from there. Then, for player initiated bounties, maximum of 1million cr, minimum of 25k cr.
As for the effects on the bounty hunter and the bounty.
Hunter:
Positive Side:
You hunts down the bounty and kill him. You receive the money from the bounty and a small increase in xp, say [500/250/250/100/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount. (I included trade because this will please traders and so will increase trade between systems. Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
Negative Side:
You hunt down the bounty and he kills you. You loose xp, say [-500/-250/-250/-100/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list of the bounty. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount.Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
Hunted:
Positive Side:
You have a bounty and you are tracked down and you win your duel. You receive an xp bonus of [500/250/250/0/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount. Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
Negative Side:
You have a bounty on your head and you are tracked down and killed. You no longer have a bounty on your head but you also loose xp, say [-500/-250/-250/-100/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount. Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
example:
Bounty on #1 most wanted Serco would be [5000/2500/2500/1000/0];
while the list most wanted is [500/250/250/100/0] and 5th most wanted is [2500/1250/1250/500/0].
This is just an idea, are there any loop holes or ways to exploit this?? Don't flame, I'm just trying to come up with a good suggestion here that will eliminate everyones worries.
As for the effects on the bounty hunter and the bounty.
Hunter:
Positive Side:
You hunts down the bounty and kill him. You receive the money from the bounty and a small increase in xp, say [500/250/250/100/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount. (I included trade because this will please traders and so will increase trade between systems. Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
Negative Side:
You hunt down the bounty and he kills you. You loose xp, say [-500/-250/-250/-100/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list of the bounty. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount.Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
Hunted:
Positive Side:
You have a bounty and you are tracked down and you win your duel. You receive an xp bonus of [500/250/250/0/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount. Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
Negative Side:
You have a bounty on your head and you are tracked down and killed. You no longer have a bounty on your head but you also loose xp, say [-500/-250/-250/-100/0]x x=1-10 on most wanted list. A player initiated bounty only subtracts base amount. Plus a slight faction increase/decrease per faction relationship.
example:
Bounty on #1 most wanted Serco would be [5000/2500/2500/1000/0];
while the list most wanted is [500/250/250/100/0] and 5th most wanted is [2500/1250/1250/500/0].
This is just an idea, are there any loop holes or ways to exploit this?? Don't flame, I'm just trying to come up with a good suggestion here that will eliminate everyones worries.
Still has exp. loss, but I actually find this much more agreeable than a percentage-based system.
I don't like having it based on player kills, though, because some long time player might have a HUGE number of self defense kills, while some new pirate who's taking out a trader every ten minutes is really low on the list even though he's the one the law would really not be happy with.
Edit: maybe have the stats based on the number of kills in the last week/few days?
I don't like having it based on player kills, though, because some long time player might have a HUGE number of self defense kills, while some new pirate who's taking out a trader every ten minutes is really low on the list even though he's the one the law would really not be happy with.
Edit: maybe have the stats based on the number of kills in the last week/few days?
I like the weekly kill ratio a lot, good idea!!
That system seems reasonable. I think the thing that bugs me the most is that I get punished far more harshly for having high levels. 14.5%? do you realize how long that takes?
For you level 5's that is nearly all of the xperience you have so far.
For you level 5's that is nearly all of the xperience you have so far.
Shape: I totally agree with you.
5% does not sound like a lot, till you realize for a combat 10 char that is more than 100% of the exp. players have who are just a few levels lower.
Edit: Shape, since you're prolly much higher combat level than me, how about you work out how long it will take you to recoup your exp., then compare it to the amount of time it would take me to earn a million credits?
I earned about 5 million credits in 5 hours a while back, using a couple nice trade routes I found. While that's uncommonly good, a good trader can still very easily recoup losses in money much faster than a high level pirate can recoup losses to exp. at 5% a pop.
5% does not sound like a lot, till you realize for a combat 10 char that is more than 100% of the exp. players have who are just a few levels lower.
Edit: Shape, since you're prolly much higher combat level than me, how about you work out how long it will take you to recoup your exp., then compare it to the amount of time it would take me to earn a million credits?
I earned about 5 million credits in 5 hours a while back, using a couple nice trade routes I found. While that's uncommonly good, a good trader can still very easily recoup losses in money much faster than a high level pirate can recoup losses to exp. at 5% a pop.
Shape:
still, be glad the bloody level dropped, if it hadn't, you'd be facing more bots while regaining it. *wry smile*
still, be glad the bloody level dropped, if it hadn't, you'd be facing more bots while regaining it. *wry smile*
Devs, please pull out the marshels and rethink this system. I haven't been able to kill Shape yet. I need to kill him.
My recommendations:
- Only have factions use this system. Another system is needed for players.
- Bountys are only for high crimes in faction space (Noob kill, Free fire zone kill, and faction space kill). Different fines place on pilot based on offenive. Fine pays for bounty.
- Cannot get bounty for action in grey space.
- No XP loss. It is just a bad idea.
- If pilot cannot pay fine, faction will front bounty money, offending pilot must pay faction back. Pilots do control rate of bounties by not committing crimes.
My recommendations:
- Only have factions use this system. Another system is needed for players.
- Bountys are only for high crimes in faction space (Noob kill, Free fire zone kill, and faction space kill). Different fines place on pilot based on offenive. Fine pays for bounty.
- Cannot get bounty for action in grey space.
- No XP loss. It is just a bad idea.
- If pilot cannot pay fine, faction will front bounty money, offending pilot must pay faction back. Pilots do control rate of bounties by not committing crimes.
ok, so yesterday I lost about 20k worth of combat xp, 58k worth of light weapons xp, about 20k worth of heavy weapons, and 20k worth of trade. So, lets look at a breakdown of the time involved, shall we?:
COMBAT:
adv combat fighting prosus, gives 500 for every 7 bots, bringing me to about 140 prosus, if you figure I get the prosus bonus bot every now and then (usually every fourth or fifth mission) that's another 450, making this probably closer to about 110 bots.
if you figure I kill 1 bot every 10 seconds (time involved for them to recognize me as a threat and begin approach, being a little kind to my detractors here), that's 1100 seconds or roughly 3 hours of continuous botting.
I lost a lot more light weapons, but for the moment I'll just assume I'll make most of that back while botting.
likewise with the heavy weps, though I can probably hang out in Odia jackhammering Denteks, and that's actually kinda fun.
TRADE:
so then lets look at trade, 20k worth of trade xp. This is a serious issue, perhaps I wouldn't have a problem if it were during one of the economy resets. The best I saw was 2000 xp for 100 items. I think now its closer to about 1400 for 100 for a good route. ok, so that means I need to stockpile ~700 in two stations in a two way route, or 1400 in a one way(which would take much longer, so lets just consider the 2-way).
That's ~15 trips back and forth in a centaur, assuming each trip takes about 6 minutes, that's another hour and a half.
So, basically, in a best case scenario, to recoup those losses, I have to spend 4 and half hours botting/ trading for each time I die to a bounty hunter? forget it, that's most of the time I will have in a day to play.
COMBAT:
adv combat fighting prosus, gives 500 for every 7 bots, bringing me to about 140 prosus, if you figure I get the prosus bonus bot every now and then (usually every fourth or fifth mission) that's another 450, making this probably closer to about 110 bots.
if you figure I kill 1 bot every 10 seconds (time involved for them to recognize me as a threat and begin approach, being a little kind to my detractors here), that's 1100 seconds or roughly 3 hours of continuous botting.
I lost a lot more light weapons, but for the moment I'll just assume I'll make most of that back while botting.
likewise with the heavy weps, though I can probably hang out in Odia jackhammering Denteks, and that's actually kinda fun.
TRADE:
so then lets look at trade, 20k worth of trade xp. This is a serious issue, perhaps I wouldn't have a problem if it were during one of the economy resets. The best I saw was 2000 xp for 100 items. I think now its closer to about 1400 for 100 for a good route. ok, so that means I need to stockpile ~700 in two stations in a two way route, or 1400 in a one way(which would take much longer, so lets just consider the 2-way).
That's ~15 trips back and forth in a centaur, assuming each trip takes about 6 minutes, that's another hour and a half.
So, basically, in a best case scenario, to recoup those losses, I have to spend 4 and half hours botting/ trading for each time I die to a bounty hunter? forget it, that's most of the time I will have in a day to play.
Hmm. how long does it take you to earn a million in trade?
*considers the comparsions*
*considers the comparsions*
Ok, this is my last post on the subject, I'm not going to post anymore, cuz it frustrates me.
If I really want a skill based game, I do have go, and I have chess, and maybe I can try playing some fps-type games too. Not to mention that as I have been dueling more, this game has begun to hurt my hands, not from hours of PvP, but just from one good battle.
Quite apart from my frustration here, I've been considering stopping for a bit. I'm going to play out my subscription. Not on Shape anymore, I have another relatively unknown char. So till the end of this month. And then I'm going to stop. No more Piracy.
This game has the possibility of being very fun, and I'm sure that even these current issues with the bounty system will be fixed. But MMORPG's are dangerous, they take a large amount of time that I could be spending with my girlfriend or around town.
I heartily apologize to the devs for this touch of the dramatic. But this does give me a fair amount of perspective.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
If I really want a skill based game, I do have go, and I have chess, and maybe I can try playing some fps-type games too. Not to mention that as I have been dueling more, this game has begun to hurt my hands, not from hours of PvP, but just from one good battle.
Quite apart from my frustration here, I've been considering stopping for a bit. I'm going to play out my subscription. Not on Shape anymore, I have another relatively unknown char. So till the end of this month. And then I'm going to stop. No more Piracy.
This game has the possibility of being very fun, and I'm sure that even these current issues with the bounty system will be fixed. But MMORPG's are dangerous, they take a large amount of time that I could be spending with my girlfriend or around town.
I heartily apologize to the devs for this touch of the dramatic. But this does give me a fair amount of perspective.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
It was nice knowin ya shape.... you killed me once and taught me that my 3 itani kills compared to your 100+ serco meant that I need more practice :) Hope you come back to blow me to pieces a lil more!
:P
:P
It's too bad your leaving Shape, of all the people that killed me you were the nicest. You were not really a bad guy, you just wanted to make grey space as bad as people said it was. You'll be missed.
i wanna get more xp and level faster
i wanna get more moneys and be rich faster
i wanna kill people easier
i wanna be hard to kill
i don't want to lose something when i die
i want gain Standing faster
i don't want lose standing no matter how.
i don't want to lose xp no matter how.
...
It's not a Tchat game.
Sitting at front of your computer. play peacefully and easely and using channel to talk.
It's a PvP game????
It's a MMORPG???
sorry but RPG do not mean a BORING GAME.
No need a player's skill then.
Go use "Yahoo" and Tchat. You won't spend moneys.
...
My recommendations :
- make easier to kill in game :
-too easy to run away atm
-station's bot too strong
***
-Already a XPlose when you kill lower levels.
-Already a big standing lose when you kill somone in minotored space.
-Bad standing already keep you out of good stuffs while getting a good standing is already hard..
***
- Keep the Bountie system with the 5% lose or change it to 2% lose.
- Change the Bountie hunter statut. add 2% lose in case he got killed by a somone with a bountie. players will think before to become bountie hunter. the moneys rewards will be a good reason for skilled players to risk their xp to get the rewards.
- The bountie system is a good way for merchants/traders ... all this peaceful careers to get revenge on pirates indeed.
i wanna get more moneys and be rich faster
i wanna kill people easier
i wanna be hard to kill
i don't want to lose something when i die
i want gain Standing faster
i don't want lose standing no matter how.
i don't want to lose xp no matter how.
...
It's not a Tchat game.
Sitting at front of your computer. play peacefully and easely and using channel to talk.
It's a PvP game????
It's a MMORPG???
sorry but RPG do not mean a BORING GAME.
No need a player's skill then.
Go use "Yahoo" and Tchat. You won't spend moneys.
...
My recommendations :
- make easier to kill in game :
-too easy to run away atm
-station's bot too strong
***
-Already a XPlose when you kill lower levels.
-Already a big standing lose when you kill somone in minotored space.
-Bad standing already keep you out of good stuffs while getting a good standing is already hard..
***
- Keep the Bountie system with the 5% lose or change it to 2% lose.
- Change the Bountie hunter statut. add 2% lose in case he got killed by a somone with a bountie. players will think before to become bountie hunter. the moneys rewards will be a good reason for skilled players to risk their xp to get the rewards.
- The bountie system is a good way for merchants/traders ... all this peaceful careers to get revenge on pirates indeed.
Nya: You really don't get this, do you?
A trader can much more easily make a pirate's life miserable than a pirate can hurt a trader.
A trader gets killed by a pirate. So what? Trader respawns, maybe loses a few K on a ship and cargo, takes 10 minutes to earn it back.
A pirate gets killed by a bounty hunter... and has to do FOUR HOURS OF WORK to get back to where he was.
I don't know if you're a masochist, or simply don't understand the mechanics at work here, but trust me; some people do not want to spend hours and hours getting punished for something that is already nearly impossible and unrewarding.
A trader can much more easily make a pirate's life miserable than a pirate can hurt a trader.
A trader gets killed by a pirate. So what? Trader respawns, maybe loses a few K on a ship and cargo, takes 10 minutes to earn it back.
A pirate gets killed by a bounty hunter... and has to do FOUR HOURS OF WORK to get back to where he was.
I don't know if you're a masochist, or simply don't understand the mechanics at work here, but trust me; some people do not want to spend hours and hours getting punished for something that is already nearly impossible and unrewarding.
it's the only way for a traders to "fight" a pirate (bountie).
But who is going to be a bountie hunter if the bountie hunter could lose Xp too?.
That's why the rewards (1000 000 mini) is a good deal.
all depends on your skill.
But who is going to be a bountie hunter if the bountie hunter could lose Xp too?.
That's why the rewards (1000 000 mini) is a good deal.
all depends on your skill.
Okay, I'm locking this since most of it is pretty much moot. Please see:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8021
[locked]
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8021
[locked]