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Incarnate has said that the player-imposed bounty may be temporary. Can we please live with this for more than 24 hours before we make all the dire predictions? Yesterday it was complaints that a million was too much to pay, today it's all about how everyone has millions and bounties are going to be ubiquitous. Let us play the game and stick to actual problems that have actually happened to the person who is actually posting.
=P
"Traders can easily grief a pirate out of this game with the new bounty system." - I don't agree with this...completely. Change the word "pirate" to "bored griefer" and you're probably more accurate. Pirates can be fun to play/play against...if the "pirate" understands how to RP one and isn't a simple bully out looking to "make himself so happy he enjoys his game to other's unenjoyment" to paraphrase a bit...
Soulless1 - I definitely agree with "a". I agree with "b" if there would be some penalty imposed, while "negative" to the XP level you're at...like maybe items costing a lot more or something.
Nya13 - I like your attitude - it appears you will be fun to play against/with in VO. And I agree the bounty hunter needs some of his/her skin in the game as well.:)
Spellcast - I agree completely with "5". The license should be nation-specific...maybe even some sort of renewable one with an expiration. Maybe if the BH fails to "off" whomever he engages, and instead gets killed, the license fee expires as a "failed" mission and is needed again? Maybe he himself loses 1-5% of his XP?
"Shape has just stated that the XP loss makes him so unhappy he isn't enjoying the game..." - not knowing why his bounty was placed on his head, it's hard to comment here, but maybe he should rethink his approach to trigger-pulling. I'm willing to bet that he's made some other players "so unhappy they aren't enjoying the game" either...so tit for tat in my book, there.
Soulless1 - I definitely agree with "a". I agree with "b" if there would be some penalty imposed, while "negative" to the XP level you're at...like maybe items costing a lot more or something.
Nya13 - I like your attitude - it appears you will be fun to play against/with in VO. And I agree the bounty hunter needs some of his/her skin in the game as well.:)
Spellcast - I agree completely with "5". The license should be nation-specific...maybe even some sort of renewable one with an expiration. Maybe if the BH fails to "off" whomever he engages, and instead gets killed, the license fee expires as a "failed" mission and is needed again? Maybe he himself loses 1-5% of his XP?
"Shape has just stated that the XP loss makes him so unhappy he isn't enjoying the game..." - not knowing why his bounty was placed on his head, it's hard to comment here, but maybe he should rethink his approach to trigger-pulling. I'm willing to bet that he's made some other players "so unhappy they aren't enjoying the game" either...so tit for tat in my book, there.
OK, this is increasingly a mess, but I consider this proposition to be self-evident:
Celebrim's First Law of PvP: The reward earned for winning a fight should always be greater than the loss incurred for losing a fight.
The greater the reward relevative to the penalty, the more PvP which occurs. onversely, if the penalty is greater than the reward, PvP pretty much ceases to occur. Sinse we want at least some PvP to occur (otherwise what would be the point of being a multiplayer combat game), the first law follows.
The obvious corollary is that if PvP is to occur in Vendetta the ammount of XP to be gained by winning a combat needs to be slightly higher than the ammount lost for losing one. At present, it appears that the most likely circumstance is that you lose XP for winning fights and you lose XP for losing them. Hense, anyone that continues to play will stop PvP and anyone that can't or won't give up PvP will stop playing.
Again, I refer to my thread on fixing the problems that make current combat boring. One of my claims is that players should never lose XP for killing a player - the loss of reputation ought to be sufficient penalty. Another one of my claims is that players should gain more XP for killing a player that they should gain for killing a bot. Not only are most players are far more dangerous than bots, but Celebrim's first law effectively states that if you earn more XP by botting than by PvP, PvP will be overly neglected.
Killing 4 Protus Assualts yields me over 2000 XP. Surely killing a player who can kill 4 Protus Assaults ought to yield more than 500 XP with a good healthy chunk of that being combat?
And by Celebrim's First Law of PvP, surely dying in a PvP contest then ought to yield a less than 500 XP loss. Yet under the present bounty system, I would lose about 5,000 XP. The situation only gets worse as players get more experienced. This suggests that as player level increases the XP gained by ganking him out to increase regardless of relative level. Two 10th level players fighting ought to gain more from killing each other than two 3rd level players, because they have more at stake.
Some of you suggest, why have a penalty of losing XP at all? The answer is fairly simple. In any PvP fight, everyone ought to have a stake at the table. Everyone ought to be taking risks.
Celebrim's Second Law of PvP: If there is a class of player in the game with nothing to lose by losing, the game will be dominated by the antics of this class of player.
It doesn't matter if we are talking n00bs with buses or vets with Valks, its the group with nothing to lose in that will dominate the culture of the game. We at VO have typically thought in terms of Valk equipped vets griefing n00bs because VO has a nice player skill based combat system, but its not at all unknown for MMORPG politics to be more or less dominated by roving packs of newbie bandits who go around griefing and looting veterens.
In the current system, the Bounty Hunter is risking nothing of value and the Pirate is risking everything. What do you expect is going to happen?
I might as well mention the third law:
Celebrim's Third Law of PvP: If there are neither rewards nor penalties to PvP, players will do it anyway.
Or in other words, if left to themselves, player's will find a way to turn any game into PvP.
So, what do we need to do.
First, we need to reduce the death penalty to down under 1% of XP. Secondly, we need to make the death penalty apply to every death for everyone. Maybe it applies more harshly to people with bounties on their heads, but if one group of players is forced to put up stakes to play, then all the players ought to be forced to put up stakes.
Issues like whether or not you keep your licenses when you lose XP are to me trivial. I don't care, and since some of you do, then I suggest that you don't lose licenses levels once you've gained them.
Third, we need to completely overhaul combat at every level. See my thread on the subject. Alot of what is annoying people in this thread isn't the bounty system itself, but the fact that combat is boring and this is just the last straw. If combat was fun, people wouldn't be so upset.
Vendetta combat used to be the some of the most fun intense PvP combat I've experienced in game, and it can be again if just a tiny ammount of time was spent fixing a few things.
Celebrim's First Law of PvP: The reward earned for winning a fight should always be greater than the loss incurred for losing a fight.
The greater the reward relevative to the penalty, the more PvP which occurs. onversely, if the penalty is greater than the reward, PvP pretty much ceases to occur. Sinse we want at least some PvP to occur (otherwise what would be the point of being a multiplayer combat game), the first law follows.
The obvious corollary is that if PvP is to occur in Vendetta the ammount of XP to be gained by winning a combat needs to be slightly higher than the ammount lost for losing one. At present, it appears that the most likely circumstance is that you lose XP for winning fights and you lose XP for losing them. Hense, anyone that continues to play will stop PvP and anyone that can't or won't give up PvP will stop playing.
Again, I refer to my thread on fixing the problems that make current combat boring. One of my claims is that players should never lose XP for killing a player - the loss of reputation ought to be sufficient penalty. Another one of my claims is that players should gain more XP for killing a player that they should gain for killing a bot. Not only are most players are far more dangerous than bots, but Celebrim's first law effectively states that if you earn more XP by botting than by PvP, PvP will be overly neglected.
Killing 4 Protus Assualts yields me over 2000 XP. Surely killing a player who can kill 4 Protus Assaults ought to yield more than 500 XP with a good healthy chunk of that being combat?
And by Celebrim's First Law of PvP, surely dying in a PvP contest then ought to yield a less than 500 XP loss. Yet under the present bounty system, I would lose about 5,000 XP. The situation only gets worse as players get more experienced. This suggests that as player level increases the XP gained by ganking him out to increase regardless of relative level. Two 10th level players fighting ought to gain more from killing each other than two 3rd level players, because they have more at stake.
Some of you suggest, why have a penalty of losing XP at all? The answer is fairly simple. In any PvP fight, everyone ought to have a stake at the table. Everyone ought to be taking risks.
Celebrim's Second Law of PvP: If there is a class of player in the game with nothing to lose by losing, the game will be dominated by the antics of this class of player.
It doesn't matter if we are talking n00bs with buses or vets with Valks, its the group with nothing to lose in that will dominate the culture of the game. We at VO have typically thought in terms of Valk equipped vets griefing n00bs because VO has a nice player skill based combat system, but its not at all unknown for MMORPG politics to be more or less dominated by roving packs of newbie bandits who go around griefing and looting veterens.
In the current system, the Bounty Hunter is risking nothing of value and the Pirate is risking everything. What do you expect is going to happen?
I might as well mention the third law:
Celebrim's Third Law of PvP: If there are neither rewards nor penalties to PvP, players will do it anyway.
Or in other words, if left to themselves, player's will find a way to turn any game into PvP.
So, what do we need to do.
First, we need to reduce the death penalty to down under 1% of XP. Secondly, we need to make the death penalty apply to every death for everyone. Maybe it applies more harshly to people with bounties on their heads, but if one group of players is forced to put up stakes to play, then all the players ought to be forced to put up stakes.
Issues like whether or not you keep your licenses when you lose XP are to me trivial. I don't care, and since some of you do, then I suggest that you don't lose licenses levels once you've gained them.
Third, we need to completely overhaul combat at every level. See my thread on the subject. Alot of what is annoying people in this thread isn't the bounty system itself, but the fact that combat is boring and this is just the last straw. If combat was fun, people wouldn't be so upset.
Vendetta combat used to be the some of the most fun intense PvP combat I've experienced in game, and it can be again if just a tiny ammount of time was spent fixing a few things.
i completely agree with every point listed above...
Nya13-You're saying that there should be more of a penalty for PvPing and losing...I disagree. When I started PvP-ing I would always die, and still now there's around a 50-50 chance that I will. I would not have kept PvP-ing and progressed this much if there were more of a penalty for losing then there is now.
As to the 5% concern, I am going to start by saying: I don't like it. And here are some ideas I've thought of to help make it more okay (listed in preferance :D):
1) No 5% loss
1b) Monetary penalty
2) Like (I think it was spellcast) someone said, make combat levels impossible to lose. Ie, I killed a player and lost combat XP for it, but instead of losing a combat level, I just lose XP.
3) Make a smaller percent of loss (ie, 1%)
Part of having a space game is asking for pirates. I enjoy that we have them, though they should not be griefers (going after one player OVER and OVER). Taking off 5% and possibly a level seems like the kind of grief a trader would achieve after being targeted five times consecutively. If traders have a problem with dying once (or multiple times if they try the route again) either learn how to combat pirates, pay them off (another use of money) or find a different route. I have seen and used extremely good routes in my nation's space (although I'm not sure about other nations...) and because of this have not encountered a single pirate.
As some of my guild members can attest to, I have spent every minute of the last few days (albiet it hasn't been _especially_ long periods at once) I have been botting to go from combat 5 to 8 so I can get my valk. This is so horribly boring I couldn't imagine keeping it up to get a buffer zone. But all one of the couple enemies I've made has to do is trade for MAYBE two hours, and bounty me. I'm not good enough to beat Tal Ra, or tramshed, or Spider etc, and so I would likely not PvP any more. Right then, I'm done with the game. Period.
Now I'm sure someone is gonna say "well it's your fault for making enemies" but the fact is, with the nation division between serco and itani, there is already some prejudiced hate. Then I meet up with a serco, and we exchange some words and maybe a fight, and there's some full hate going on. At the time it has seemed okay to have enemies, after all these are people I will never meet (or I hope so :D) and it is part of the backstory. But now, I'd gladly say "I'm sorry please don't put a bounty on me" but unlike in movies I'm sure they won't accept that. In fact they're much more likely to sense weakness, recall my lack of perfect ability in PvP, and place a bounty on me right then and there when they wouldn't have normally. Then I see Spellcast...and boom, I'm back to botting for a day.
I guess this has been rather lengthy for such a small point, but I hope it helps express what I'm saying.
As to the 5% concern, I am going to start by saying: I don't like it. And here are some ideas I've thought of to help make it more okay (listed in preferance :D):
1) No 5% loss
1b) Monetary penalty
2) Like (I think it was spellcast) someone said, make combat levels impossible to lose. Ie, I killed a player and lost combat XP for it, but instead of losing a combat level, I just lose XP.
3) Make a smaller percent of loss (ie, 1%)
Part of having a space game is asking for pirates. I enjoy that we have them, though they should not be griefers (going after one player OVER and OVER). Taking off 5% and possibly a level seems like the kind of grief a trader would achieve after being targeted five times consecutively. If traders have a problem with dying once (or multiple times if they try the route again) either learn how to combat pirates, pay them off (another use of money) or find a different route. I have seen and used extremely good routes in my nation's space (although I'm not sure about other nations...) and because of this have not encountered a single pirate.
As some of my guild members can attest to, I have spent every minute of the last few days (albiet it hasn't been _especially_ long periods at once) I have been botting to go from combat 5 to 8 so I can get my valk. This is so horribly boring I couldn't imagine keeping it up to get a buffer zone. But all one of the couple enemies I've made has to do is trade for MAYBE two hours, and bounty me. I'm not good enough to beat Tal Ra, or tramshed, or Spider etc, and so I would likely not PvP any more. Right then, I'm done with the game. Period.
Now I'm sure someone is gonna say "well it's your fault for making enemies" but the fact is, with the nation division between serco and itani, there is already some prejudiced hate. Then I meet up with a serco, and we exchange some words and maybe a fight, and there's some full hate going on. At the time it has seemed okay to have enemies, after all these are people I will never meet (or I hope so :D) and it is part of the backstory. But now, I'd gladly say "I'm sorry please don't put a bounty on me" but unlike in movies I'm sure they won't accept that. In fact they're much more likely to sense weakness, recall my lack of perfect ability in PvP, and place a bounty on me right then and there when they wouldn't have normally. Then I see Spellcast...and boom, I'm back to botting for a day.
I guess this has been rather lengthy for such a small point, but I hope it helps express what I'm saying.
The Serco Dominion placed a bounty on my head which I let Spellcast collect and I lost the 5% XP. However, I am pretty sure this is the last time I allowed someone to kill me. Now I will in-system jump every time I fall under 90% hull and repair at the nearest station. Is that the future of PvP? Fight until you get hit once? Add in the ultra FC that was recently added, and ... oh well.
Well based on all those posts I have been able to discern that!...... you can't get a bounty off your head why...? How about after 10 hours of consecutive gameplay (or not 10 whatever would be balanced) the bounty is taken away OR diminished in value? This would give the pirate incentive to play and LIVE! Then again this would also make his pirating business go down quite a bit.... So maybe we could give the pirate even MORE incentive. The pirate could get the money if he stays alive for 10 hours? This way the pirate has enough incentive to stay alive because the trader will know that their money has not only been wasted but has gone to the opposite cause they wanted.
(yes/no?)
/givemoney Devs 2c
(yes/no?)
/givemoney Devs 2c
Incarnate said you CAN get a bounty off your head by paying it off.
News:
"Additionally, bounties can also be "bought out", but doing so places stringent requirements on the activities of the character buying out their bounty, specifically related to the space of the affiliated Nation, and any actions against citizens of that Nation."
Again, I ask that people go back and enjoy the game. Some tuning is probably required, but let's keep emotion out of it.
"Additionally, bounties can also be "bought out", but doing so places stringent requirements on the activities of the character buying out their bounty, specifically related to the space of the affiliated Nation, and any actions against citizens of that Nation."
Again, I ask that people go back and enjoy the game. Some tuning is probably required, but let's keep emotion out of it.
@kixkizzle
In no way do I think that the bounty should diminish over time nor do I think that the person who has the bounty should be able to obtain the bounty. It doesn't work like that in RL why should it here, even for gameplay reasons. Paying it off should eliminate a bounty if you really want to get rid of it that badly.
In no way do I think that the bounty should diminish over time nor do I think that the person who has the bounty should be able to obtain the bounty. It doesn't work like that in RL why should it here, even for gameplay reasons. Paying it off should eliminate a bounty if you really want to get rid of it that badly.
I actually like the diminishment over time thing. That would allow someone who didn't want to get griefed and lose their XP to just... sit it out for awhile, staying safe in their own territory.
first of all thats a [edit] move, secondly, for the person who puts up 1 million credits that's just not right or fare. Why would anyone put up a bounty if the person could just fly around in protected space for 10 days or whatever and then the bounty is gone, if anything it should get bigger with time, making the person even more hunted. Kind of like an interest rate. Also, I would like to see an increase of say 10% to the bounty if someone is killed trying to collect the bounty. It makes the hunted more notorious and the hunters more blood thirsty >:)~
5% is pretty tough, for a set rate of $1MILL. perhaps, instead of focusing only on "punishing pirate severely", the focus could be directed at "awarding bounty hunter".
also, how can this not be abused? seems like you can put a bounty on just about anyone. If I were wealthy in creds, and didn't like someone for whatever reason, pirating or no, could I make their life miserable because they can't even get out of a bus to fight back?
so far, the assumption was made that whoever the bounty is placed on, is a pirate and deserves to die--which is evidently not true for all cases.
also, how can this not be abused? seems like you can put a bounty on just about anyone. If I were wealthy in creds, and didn't like someone for whatever reason, pirating or no, could I make their life miserable because they can't even get out of a bus to fight back?
so far, the assumption was made that whoever the bounty is placed on, is a pirate and deserves to die--which is evidently not true for all cases.
Humm.
Celebrim brought up a point that I think should be noted harder. There is no penalty for being a Bounty Hunter.
Bounty Hunters are -lawmen- they enforce a Law and a Policy by a certain nation. They do this outside that nations border, as official enforcers and fighters.
Theese should be decidedly -unwelcome- by other nations means, and disjunct nations such as Corvus should have a distinct Distrust for said people, immediately dropping them down to -disliked- status.
This should also have a negative aspect of all other nations, who will look warily at an armed enforcer within its borders, causing a increase in price, and a distinct loss of favour. (Ie. wave "bye bye" to your mk II and mk III weapons, and bring the prices up with 15% on every other goods )
-alternatively / also -
Drop BountyHunters off the protection map. Let them keep their levels, their licenses, but ignore any armed transgressions against them.
Ie. an UIT who takes a Itani BountyHunter license travels into Serco space, and is completely at the mercy of serco pilots. The law will not care if he's stomped out or not. However, he may not stomp on others beyond normally.
This is to signify the deep distrust a nation and certain less deserving factions have to law officials.
--
As for the licence levels. Please drop them if my XP goes down. Why? Because I certainly -DONT- want to fight 8 bots /round when I could have been getting 6 bots/ round while I regain my loss.
Celebrim brought up a point that I think should be noted harder. There is no penalty for being a Bounty Hunter.
Bounty Hunters are -lawmen- they enforce a Law and a Policy by a certain nation. They do this outside that nations border, as official enforcers and fighters.
Theese should be decidedly -unwelcome- by other nations means, and disjunct nations such as Corvus should have a distinct Distrust for said people, immediately dropping them down to -disliked- status.
This should also have a negative aspect of all other nations, who will look warily at an armed enforcer within its borders, causing a increase in price, and a distinct loss of favour. (Ie. wave "bye bye" to your mk II and mk III weapons, and bring the prices up with 15% on every other goods )
-alternatively / also -
Drop BountyHunters off the protection map. Let them keep their levels, their licenses, but ignore any armed transgressions against them.
Ie. an UIT who takes a Itani BountyHunter license travels into Serco space, and is completely at the mercy of serco pilots. The law will not care if he's stomped out or not. However, he may not stomp on others beyond normally.
This is to signify the deep distrust a nation and certain less deserving factions have to law officials.
--
As for the licence levels. Please drop them if my XP goes down. Why? Because I certainly -DONT- want to fight 8 bots /round when I could have been getting 6 bots/ round while I regain my loss.
Ok this has become incredibly messy, but I would like to bring it back into perspective. Sure the current system needs tweaking, and the 5% loss, as it stands is quite steep, but this is NOT the main cause of Shape's concerns -- and NOT the underlying problem with the current bounty system. Apart from a lone post by Hoax a while back, much of this discussion is missing the point. What most of you are actually railing against is the tedium of the 'botting treadmill' and the inability to gain combat XP in a quick and entertaining manner. So if we could shift this discussion off the possibilities of tweaking the 5% or having a credit loss etc etc and face some of the more fundamental issues with Vendetta's gameplay and XP system then we will have gone a long way to finding a more universally accepted solution...
Point number two: This may not be the appropriate thread to do it in!
Now listen to what FM says and go play spaceships... ;)
[IDF] Infinite Skillz
Point number two: This may not be the appropriate thread to do it in!
Now listen to what FM says and go play spaceships... ;)
[IDF] Infinite Skillz
okay how about this idea,
when you get killed for being a pirate by a bounty hunter or by crashing into a big rock, you are out of the game. You create another character, and try again. this time you can be a trader or a pirate or a bounty hunter.
Scrap the license system and make ships available to anyone who can come up with the credits.
Reason:
The way things are at the moment players are more concerned about losing xp than money, sort of makes a nonsense of the economy!
And no one is particularly bothered if they get killed, so where is the excitement ?where is the risk?
Sounds harsh i know but it would make for great role playing. and players would really care about their characters.
Of course, to implement such an system would require a character wipe so that it was fair to everyone. ; )
when you get killed for being a pirate by a bounty hunter or by crashing into a big rock, you are out of the game. You create another character, and try again. this time you can be a trader or a pirate or a bounty hunter.
Scrap the license system and make ships available to anyone who can come up with the credits.
Reason:
The way things are at the moment players are more concerned about losing xp than money, sort of makes a nonsense of the economy!
And no one is particularly bothered if they get killed, so where is the excitement ?where is the risk?
Sounds harsh i know but it would make for great role playing. and players would really care about their characters.
Of course, to implement such an system would require a character wipe so that it was fair to everyone. ; )
Infinite Skillz, you've got it. I don't mind at all having something at stake in a bounty system, it DOES make sense.
But botting? why on earth would you "punish" someone with that. (I am not a griefer, quit making all these assumptions about me when you've never encountered me).
I'm sure I can find plenty of games that let me continue the interesting strategy side, without having to continuously deal with
a mindless training system, defunct to anyone who has gotten the hang of it.
Someone earlier brought up the point that this makes the name Vendetta very apt.
Unfortunately, I have no recourse. What am I going to do? Hunt someone down? I don't have a million creds to blow, cuz I don't trade, So that should work GREAT. I kill them, they respawn, YAY we're....not even.
Maybe I will continue this game. But In revenge for these slights, I will go to UIT space, and hunt you down, n00bs and otherwise, at your respective stations. I have enough strikeforce dodging practice, and a bus is very easy to kill at a station.
This would effectively disillusion most n00bs right? they won't want to come back and play? I am not a griefer, but if you want me to be, I can do some serious damage.
But botting? why on earth would you "punish" someone with that. (I am not a griefer, quit making all these assumptions about me when you've never encountered me).
I'm sure I can find plenty of games that let me continue the interesting strategy side, without having to continuously deal with
a mindless training system, defunct to anyone who has gotten the hang of it.
Someone earlier brought up the point that this makes the name Vendetta very apt.
Unfortunately, I have no recourse. What am I going to do? Hunt someone down? I don't have a million creds to blow, cuz I don't trade, So that should work GREAT. I kill them, they respawn, YAY we're....not even.
Maybe I will continue this game. But In revenge for these slights, I will go to UIT space, and hunt you down, n00bs and otherwise, at your respective stations. I have enough strikeforce dodging practice, and a bus is very easy to kill at a station.
This would effectively disillusion most n00bs right? they won't want to come back and play? I am not a griefer, but if you want me to be, I can do some serious damage.
bring your worst shape, I"m sure the UIT nation and independants can muster a force to crush you, and if not, I'm sure we have the money to put out even more bounties on your head.
with that said, you need to really lighten up, it is afterall just a game. =P
with that said, you need to really lighten up, it is afterall just a game. =P
Ha, crush me? if the sf, and their insane engines can't catch my valk, why should any number. Are you all just going to sit and guard your stations, all day long just in case I show up? I don't think you even have enough UIT to effectively guard all your stations.
Plus I also have a self-destruct key, better be damn sure I'm not losing my 5% again.
Sure its just a game. One in which it is now completely ok to grief someone, based on your opinion that they may have griefed someone else. I think you can maybe find 1 person who could honestly say I "griefed" them (I killed a bus twice in grey space, but the bugger was homed in grey space... and was mouthin off after the first time, so the next time I saw him, I killed him again)
but you know John? it IS just a game, and if I'm getting mad over it, then I think the only solution is to quit. Not so bad, I can get back to playing go, and doing work. This really is a bit of a waste of time.
Let me make clear, I'm not quitting because I lost 2 skill levels. I'm quitting because its obvious to me that the people on here seem to think that I somehow deserve it. That for all the time I took warning people, people still assume I'm just some asshole trying to take away their fun.
Let me clarify, I lost 14.5% of my experience yesterday, not 5%. You do the math
Plus I also have a self-destruct key, better be damn sure I'm not losing my 5% again.
Sure its just a game. One in which it is now completely ok to grief someone, based on your opinion that they may have griefed someone else. I think you can maybe find 1 person who could honestly say I "griefed" them (I killed a bus twice in grey space, but the bugger was homed in grey space... and was mouthin off after the first time, so the next time I saw him, I killed him again)
but you know John? it IS just a game, and if I'm getting mad over it, then I think the only solution is to quit. Not so bad, I can get back to playing go, and doing work. This really is a bit of a waste of time.
Let me make clear, I'm not quitting because I lost 2 skill levels. I'm quitting because its obvious to me that the people on here seem to think that I somehow deserve it. That for all the time I took warning people, people still assume I'm just some asshole trying to take away their fun.
Let me clarify, I lost 14.5% of my experience yesterday, not 5%. You do the math