< Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, no-fire zones around stations are pretty much the only way to lose standing for non-nation factions, right? >

No, when a person is admired with a faction, you lose standing not only when killing the person in the no-fire zone; you lose it for a kill out of no-fire zone too.

And when this happens 3 times in a row, then you have a problem.

Greetings
Linda (-:

Does that count for anytime you kill an admired player, or only kills in space monitored by that faction? And non-nation factions only monitor sectors they have stations in, right?

Oh, and Lin, your head is on upside-down. :-)

@Beolach: Only in monitored/guarded space by a faction.
And yes, the various corporations only monitor sectors they have stations in. The nations monitor far more.

@Gamejunky: "I only killed her once near the station." yes, but you killed her repeatedly -IN THE SECTOR-.

And yes, I think it should be possible to get back while you're in a certain treshold, but if you're aggressive enough to repeatedly kill people inside their monitored space, I doubt that I want to see you in such a nations sector, ever again.

This a RP game. There must be irreversible options for our characters (if we are not happy with them, we can create a new character). Permanent loss of standing is the only irreversible option in VO. So let's keep it.

However, the current system is not consistent: we should not be able to recover standing with another nation beyond a certain point (not to mention how easy it is, especially in UIT).

Since when do RP games *have* to have irrevsible options? And to be honest, I'm not necessarily against irreversible options, but I don't think faction standing should be one. I can see it being very difficult and time consuming, but think about it, even if I make a bad impression on someone, I can eventually improve how well they think of me.

One possibility that I think would make sense, is to allow someone in bad standing to rebuild their standing, but only to a certain point, something like if you have ever been at -500 standing, you can only get up to +750, if you've ever been at -600, you can only get up to +650, etc.

Oh, and stop me (too late) if you've heard this one... The difference between men and women is, men never forgive, but give them a couple weeks & they'll forget; women will forgive you, but will never forget in a thousand years.

@Beolach

My head is not upside-down, the *wrong* smiley is the sign for a left-hand person ... ;)

And again @Beloach:

[The difference between men and women is, men never forgive, but give them a couple weeks & they'll forget; women will forgive you, but will never forget in a thousand years.]

I hope you don't want to start a gender discussion here?!

Greetings
Linda (-:

Ah, I hadn't known that... learn something new everyday. My two guesses were you were an Aussie, or just liked being different.

Not really, but maybe a forgive vs. forget... (and I hope you laughed).

I'd like to echo Sun-Tzu

but I'd also like to add, that in a scenario where someone has changed, we do have guides that will get people back on track.

Something that upsets me here, is that this same person is one who earlier lost all his itani standing for - repeatedly - killing a person just outside a station, and getting a negative reputation with itani for it.

After his incessant whining about the reputation system being broken, some of those "well meaning" guides restored his reputation, (I doubt they refunded the victim and reset the victims death-count though....) so that he now can do it all again .WITH A DIFFERENT FACTION.

This is the same person who according to his own post earlier has gotten KOS with UIT just for .THE SAME REASON.

And now you want guides to go help them all?

PFAH!

Spider speaks true.

At the very least, I'm sure he won't make the same mistake again. I think. Maybe. Possibly.

Ok, so maybe Gamejunky got what he deserved, I don't know about that & I'm not going to argue it one way or the other. However, let's try to seperate the suggestion from the suggester. I do still think permanent bad standing shouldn't happen. Now, the way it is currently, with kills in no-fire zones & monitored space being the only way to lose faction standing with non-nation factions, I don't see this as very important, and if it stays that way forever, then I wouldn't care as much about permanent bad standing (although I still wouldn't like it).

But the thing is, like I mentioned earlier, I would like to see a lot more things affect a player's faction standings. Like Shapenaji's recent guild faction standing suggestion; I really liked that idea. But if I'm in a guild w/ GJ or someone who ends up dragging us all into permanent bad standing, then I'd *really* be annoyed. And having a guide fix the whole guilds standing is not a good solution. The best solution would be to kick whoever dragged us down out of the guild, and then work on rebuilding our faction standing. But if we lost so much standing we can't rebuild, I hope you see the problem.

Now that illustration works really well because it's based in a situation where other players (your guild) can affect your standing. But even if guild faction standing is never implemented, I would still like to see more ways to gain and lose faction standing than there are now, and even if it's only based on your own actions, I still don't want to ever get in a situation I can't get out of.

Here's a rule of thumb I use:
If I get an idea, or get pissed off at something I let it fester for a month or two. If after that time the problem isn't resolved without my 'help', THEN I post. As you may have noticed, I don't post a lot of suggestions.
The idea here is that the game is moving forward at such a breakneck pace that any problem with it I might have today is likely to be gone within the next two months.

Yes, I too think that the faction thingy needs a bit of work, but I like the idea of giving the devs a bit of breathing room much more.
Then again, there's nothing wrong posting your ideas now, so that everyone knows where you stand when the time comes.

Wow. I'm confusing myself here. Sorry.

well I'd hope that if a guild has a problem member, they'd take measures to control that person's actions, or they'd kick the member out.

@genka: True, and like I said, the way things are now, it's not too big a deal. But hopefully when the devs do get around to building on the faction standing system, this will be one of the things they change.

@CrippledPidgeon: What if they don't find out which member it was until it's too late? Or what if 95% of the guild doesn't care if their Xang Xi standing is -1000, but Joe and I do? Sure, we leave the guild, but I think we should have bad standing from our past association, but it shouldn't be permanent.

if you're no longer part of the guild, maybe their faction standing will only touch you slightly/not at all.

Maybe factions should slowly forget/forgive your bad standing up till a level where you can dock again. Like 2 points a day.

<unbiased>
In my opinion, certain actions within the game should produce irrevocable consequences. A player should be given "fair" warning before he commits these actions. Once the player has been made aware of the consequences, it would then be his choice to commit those actions, and deal with the consequences. As long as he has the choice, he has nobody to blame but himself.
</unbiased>

<biased>
Within the last night or so, the player that started this thread (GameJunky) declared his animosity towards the entire UIT nation because of another player's (Mr_Spuck, if I remember right) actions. In the conversation after GameJunky's declarations, Mr_Spuck was declared to be of Serco nationality. Even after this declaration was made, he never publicly retracted his statements.

In my experiences with the player personally, and from other player's stories in their dealings with him, he has proved himself to be what I would classify as antagonistic, arrogant, and unhonorable.
</biased>

So you can put my opinion down as being in favor of some faction standings being permanent, as long as fair warning is given.

Every guild standing change I come up with requires a more complicated standing system, so I'll keep shut about that for right now, until I get them simplified a bit.

Sounds like Spilled milk, you got on (KOS) Death Row with that for a reason, why sould they change a game just to please those that choise to kill where they should not. In real life death row is death row itis a LIFE sentence, Take responcablity for your actions, you see this is the problem with these times, no one takes responcablity for what they do.

I say keep it the way it is, you have 5 other toons you can make, take responcablity for your actions and deal with it.

Syberfly out: I live for the one, I die for the One.

[BUMP]

Well .. this post really took off :/ Also, Docking fees do not concern me.. And I hope the devs do fix the standing part. Bots around there stations is the only idea i can think of.

[BUMP]

LOL, GameJunky there is nothing to fix, your a victim of your own game play, you kill ppl where you knew you should not and evertime you did you got the message telling you of your infraction's and now you want the Dev's to fix something that is not broken, I don't think your victims would think it is fair, and at least they won't have to worry about you killing them at those stations anymore.

I just think it's funny that the grifter is now the victim of what he was doing. I have no ill will toward you GameJunky, but live with your actions, it's all about responcablity in what type of game you play, you do have 5 other toons to play with.

Syberfly out: I live for the One, I die for the One.