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The game functions in "physics" mode. "Arcade" mode is just a control system that uses exactly the same ship-control characteristics and limitations available in "physics" mode, but attempts to make flight easier for those with joysticks. "Arcade" mode has no special abilities, there aren't two physics models, there is one physics model and one selectable control system that sits on top of said physics model. I thought I did a reasonable job of explaining it here:
http://www.guildsoftware.com/ven.flight.model.html
http://www.guildsoftware.com/ven.flight.model.html
Plus, I'm not entirely sure where we boast about a true physics model. I don't doubt that I said something like that in the past, but I'm having a hard time finding it on our current website. If someone could point it out, I'll be happy to make the statement more strictly accurate.
Well done incarnate. /me claps
Hi
Re: A major game that has realistic physics and is playable.
Frontier : Elite II was that game. I enjoyed many hours of play on the Amiga A1200.
Now let me state quite simply that you had no effective top speed limit, that your acceleration was limited by your Thrust and mass, that you had different velocity and orientation vectors, That you had autopilot, and that you had an (effectively) infinitely large galaxy. And it was great fun to play. And you *could* dogfight. That's right, you could find a pirate and dogfight, even at 50,000 m/s. What happened was, the chaser would get up to the runner with a parallel velocity vector. All that mattered then was the *relative* velocity (and changes) between the two objects (Oh, and watch out you don't slam into something like a planet when facing your opponent). The game was fantastic. Anyone who says different, simply didn't play it on the Amiga A1200.
Now, I like some of the comments on here, and I agree with some of what iopaw said.
Nevertheless let me make it clear one thing: I think Vendetta Online is great, and the playability is great. The graphics are great.
Obviously V.O. today and Frontier back in 1992 aren't comparable, but if they were, V.O. has the online massive multiplayer, which is great (and Frontier was only single player).
One drawback with V.O.: the top speed limits / some people describing space as 'viscous as water'. Nobody's perfect. There are design tradeoffs to make.
I think one major technical difficulty with very high speeds is the internet lag. (Hence rubber. Anyone played ArmageTRON?).
Anyway, good job to the Developers and long may it continue.
Re: A major game that has realistic physics and is playable.
Frontier : Elite II was that game. I enjoyed many hours of play on the Amiga A1200.
Now let me state quite simply that you had no effective top speed limit, that your acceleration was limited by your Thrust and mass, that you had different velocity and orientation vectors, That you had autopilot, and that you had an (effectively) infinitely large galaxy. And it was great fun to play. And you *could* dogfight. That's right, you could find a pirate and dogfight, even at 50,000 m/s. What happened was, the chaser would get up to the runner with a parallel velocity vector. All that mattered then was the *relative* velocity (and changes) between the two objects (Oh, and watch out you don't slam into something like a planet when facing your opponent). The game was fantastic. Anyone who says different, simply didn't play it on the Amiga A1200.
Now, I like some of the comments on here, and I agree with some of what iopaw said.
Nevertheless let me make it clear one thing: I think Vendetta Online is great, and the playability is great. The graphics are great.
Obviously V.O. today and Frontier back in 1992 aren't comparable, but if they were, V.O. has the online massive multiplayer, which is great (and Frontier was only single player).
One drawback with V.O.: the top speed limits / some people describing space as 'viscous as water'. Nobody's perfect. There are design tradeoffs to make.
I think one major technical difficulty with very high speeds is the internet lag. (Hence rubber. Anyone played ArmageTRON?).
Anyway, good job to the Developers and long may it continue.
BURN you thread necromancer!
And Elite II was single player, how does that compare in anyway to how combat works in an online game?
And Elite II was single player, how does that compare in anyway to how combat works in an online game?
Speed in Armegatron was enough of an issue on its own, never mind when you add network latency to the mix...
yodaofborg, pick ONE of the following two:
1) "BURN you thread necromancer!" for resurrecting threads
2) "There's already a thread for that!" for posting a new thread on an old subject.
You simply CANNOT complain about both :)
Anyway, with Elite II there were thousands of pirates in the universe. Finding them was easier due to the number of them and the random encounters which actually made up pirates as close to you as possible.
Randomly warping players to be closer to other players doesn't really sound like something I'd want ;)
1) "BURN you thread necromancer!" for resurrecting threads
2) "There's already a thread for that!" for posting a new thread on an old subject.
You simply CANNOT complain about both :)
Anyway, with Elite II there were thousands of pirates in the universe. Finding them was easier due to the number of them and the random encounters which actually made up pirates as close to you as possible.
Randomly warping players to be closer to other players doesn't really sound like something I'd want ;)
I propose a new physics model- we are all flying through a giant bowl of jel-o, and we have to be careful. There are these really big orange slices, and*is shot*
I blather on and on...
To iopaw and all the physics whiners- Go play Vega Strike and try to land succesfully 10 times in a row on different planets. Then come back and whine.
I blather on and on...
To iopaw and all the physics whiners- Go play Vega Strike and try to land succesfully 10 times in a row on different planets. Then come back and whine.
Threadomancy for the win.
Realism v. Fun is the issue at hand here, and this is a balance well maintained by the devs.
Realism v. Fun is the issue at hand here, and this is a balance well maintained by the devs.
The real issue that having speed limits addresses isn't just interesting dogfights, it's scenery. Elite was mostly empty space; we tried to create clusters of stuff where players gather. Creating random encounters between players in a vast empty universe with no speed limits would be ... an interesting gameplay design proposition. I'm sure it could be done, probably by warping the fabric of space or something.
We need to do a better job of creating random encounters as it is. Storms didn't really work out that well.
We need to do a better job of creating random encounters as it is. Storms didn't really work out that well.
a1k0n: navigational flow needs more bottlenecks... think about it. If you suddenly put a wormhole between Ukari and Deneb, you'd get a ton of traffic through it. Now let's say that we added another system between Odia and Bractus and made a wormhole from Latos to Pelatus. Same story - you'd get more traffic... the trouble is that travel is so balanced and linear - all routes are equal, so there's really no advantage to choosing one route over another. If there was, people would go the faster route, and as a result the route would become more dangerous (since pirates would also congregate there).
I also think that if created an opportunity for profit and benefit for traveling a few specific lanes of space, you'd get more interaction. As it is, resources are spaced out pretty evenly, and all the major trade routes start out in or near Dau, which has three exit paths... we need more reasons to travel from specific places to other specific places, especially in grey. make Odia M-14 more important, and create a good trade route from there to Latos, and people will use it. Also another system that doesn't have more than one way in or out would be interesting... maybe put it south of Odia, linking to a pirate stronghold.
I also think that if created an opportunity for profit and benefit for traveling a few specific lanes of space, you'd get more interaction. As it is, resources are spaced out pretty evenly, and all the major trade routes start out in or near Dau, which has three exit paths... we need more reasons to travel from specific places to other specific places, especially in grey. make Odia M-14 more important, and create a good trade route from there to Latos, and people will use it. Also another system that doesn't have more than one way in or out would be interesting... maybe put it south of Odia, linking to a pirate stronghold.
yah or just get more players
In grey space, someone should tow a large astroid onto the wormhole, making a physical bottleneck.
(sector 13 had a nice one, I believe..I lost my pictures, but it's the sector from the left of serco space. One of 'em big asteroids we had buswars in)
(sector 13 had a nice one, I believe..I lost my pictures, but it's the sector from the left of serco space. One of 'em big asteroids we had buswars in)
How about we get back on physics and maybe start a new thread in 'suggestions' for bottlenecks/rearrainging the universe?
3 years is a long time to rehash physics.
3 years is a long time to rehash physics.
I actually really like Cunjo's idea of having faster (and more popular, more pirated) paths versus slower (freer) ones
That line of thought thinks about the situation as is, ie 40 people online at a time. If the game does balloon to 100..... 200.... maybe even 300 people at a time on, that's 10 people per system. You can bet more people will be around for pirates and more pirates will be around to pirate.
I don't think the universe needs more bottlenecks. Its main problem is underpopulation. If you get ~200 active players the problem will suddenly go away.
If you insist, here is a random idea for increasing traffic in certain systems:
Make players come to a capital system to update their licenses once they have enough points - that way a player has to visit civilisation every time they level up something.
Likewise to get their medals/ribbons/etc.
I am not sure I like the idea, but it is an idea.
If you insist, here is a random idea for increasing traffic in certain systems:
Make players come to a capital system to update their licenses once they have enough points - that way a player has to visit civilisation every time they level up something.
Likewise to get their medals/ribbons/etc.
I am not sure I like the idea, but it is an idea.
hey! it used to be that way. You had to take a license gainering mission at a capital once you got enough xp.
I think it was changed cause people hated by their own nation couldn't level up, the amount of moneys to pay grew exponentially so combatty people couldn't pay for the higher licenses and some people just thought that system was dumb and stuff.
I think it was changed cause people hated by their own nation couldn't level up, the amount of moneys to pay grew exponentially so combatty people couldn't pay for the higher licenses and some people just thought that system was dumb and stuff.
Well, space in VO tends to have a lot of debris and space dust, so that would slow you down. also, a history of jumping between sectors with micro-wormholes might have had an effect on the fabrication of space-time...
You know, I think I've gotten to the point where I don't know what I'm saying.
You know, I think I've gotten to the point where I don't know what I'm saying.
Sorry for getting back to the topic a little...
As a noob, I'm reluctant when it comes to realism/physics/arkade mode. But what I meanwhile do understand, that the simplified flight model of VO seems to be one of the main sources of all the fun here.
I perfectly understand that and why we can't have indefinite acceleration, but I don't think the opposite, a 'hard cap' of total speed, is the only solution to keep the fun (and honestly, smells pretty foul when it comes to 'space games'). Personally I would prefer what I know from a game called 'Terminus', not exactly the way they did it, but the idea: increasing the probability of losing structural integrity, dependent of the current (over-)speed. As a 'somewhat realistic' background we could imagine micro particles with higher impact on higher speed.
Basically this would replace the current max speed of a ship with "current max speed without losing structural integrity due to overspeed" and would still allow a temporary 'overdrive' in emergency situations: the higher the current actual speed (over the 'top' safe speed), the higher the probability of structural damage. Might spice things up a little...
As a noob, I'm reluctant when it comes to realism/physics/arkade mode. But what I meanwhile do understand, that the simplified flight model of VO seems to be one of the main sources of all the fun here.
I perfectly understand that and why we can't have indefinite acceleration, but I don't think the opposite, a 'hard cap' of total speed, is the only solution to keep the fun (and honestly, smells pretty foul when it comes to 'space games'). Personally I would prefer what I know from a game called 'Terminus', not exactly the way they did it, but the idea: increasing the probability of losing structural integrity, dependent of the current (over-)speed. As a 'somewhat realistic' background we could imagine micro particles with higher impact on higher speed.
Basically this would replace the current max speed of a ship with "current max speed without losing structural integrity due to overspeed" and would still allow a temporary 'overdrive' in emergency situations: the higher the current actual speed (over the 'top' safe speed), the higher the probability of structural damage. Might spice things up a little...