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I just upped my pledge from 50 to 250, gotta at least try to do all we can as a community
Even if we don't make it at least we can then know we did our best and hold our heads up high knowing we tried.
Even if we don't make it at least we can then know we did our best and hold our heads up high knowing we tried.
will up mine to 250 also. I do think that those of us who did pledge, should still get the badge at least to show our support to VO.
Upped my pledge to 250.
Mine is at $250
$5k
Get on my level, mouthy traders.
Get on my level, mouthy traders.
Remember, if you put a bunch in and it doesn't go through you don't spend anything, so it's ok to up it! :P
What the heck, I upped mine to $250 as well. Maybe I'll even log in one of these days and see what's changed!
Also, I can't wait to see what name you come up with, Lecter. I'm fascinated to see how you'll work with the requirement to get it approved by the devs. :P
Also, I can't wait to see what name you come up with, Lecter. I'm fascinated to see how you'll work with the requirement to get it approved by the devs. :P
I pledged $100.
Pointlessly insulting post removed. We're not even arguing here.
(/edit: It was not Impavid)
(/edit: It was not Impavid)
For the record: The pointless insult post wasn't me.
I'd hate to say this, but I think the devs may be a bit overly optimistic about the early level of support for this campaign, and are likely to fall well short of the mark.
We hit the 30% mark only because this game has a mature, longstanding community, and garnered the support of the existing players immediately. With that demographic tapped though, it's just not going to draw in the kind of support needed from people who haven't already found the game to be worth paying for.
I pledged my $100 on day 1. I'd up it if I could right now, but unfortunately I just can't afford it this month.
You guys are really going to have to make a serious effort to rope more people in to supporting this campaign if you want it to succeed. And I'm not talking about the devs. I'm talking about all of you players. Instead of just upping your pledge, talk to some other people, spread the word around, and get them to make pledges of their own.
Light up twitter, facebook, IRC, what have you, talk to your friends, convince them to pledge some money and get an account of their own. Convince people to back the campaign, and give away their subscription vouchers as gifts, whatever it takes to get it funded.
If you don't, it's going to fail, because this project just doesn't have the kind of public outreach necessary on its own, and people don't want to fund an existing game they aren't already keen on paying for.
If it fails, it fails. Hopefully the devs aren't banking too heavily on it. They can always try for a round 2 with a lower bar, but the funding requirements are what they are, and if it's not enough it's not enough.
We hit the 30% mark only because this game has a mature, longstanding community, and garnered the support of the existing players immediately. With that demographic tapped though, it's just not going to draw in the kind of support needed from people who haven't already found the game to be worth paying for.
I pledged my $100 on day 1. I'd up it if I could right now, but unfortunately I just can't afford it this month.
You guys are really going to have to make a serious effort to rope more people in to supporting this campaign if you want it to succeed. And I'm not talking about the devs. I'm talking about all of you players. Instead of just upping your pledge, talk to some other people, spread the word around, and get them to make pledges of their own.
Light up twitter, facebook, IRC, what have you, talk to your friends, convince them to pledge some money and get an account of their own. Convince people to back the campaign, and give away their subscription vouchers as gifts, whatever it takes to get it funded.
If you don't, it's going to fail, because this project just doesn't have the kind of public outreach necessary on its own, and people don't want to fund an existing game they aren't already keen on paying for.
If it fails, it fails. Hopefully the devs aren't banking too heavily on it. They can always try for a round 2 with a lower bar, but the funding requirements are what they are, and if it's not enough it's not enough.
Postin' time!
First, a list of answer to head off snarky questions:
Yes, I've backed the project.
No, I'm not going to say by how much.
Yes, I could probably afford to back a few times more than I already have.
No, I'm not going to increase how much I'm backing.
And no, I can't exactly back anywhere near Dr. Lecter has, but I haven't been the mouthy trading type for.... a very long time.
What bothers me about this kickstarter thing and Vendetta Online as a whole is that I've never once seen Incarnate spell out exactly why VO is and will be a thing, rather than just saying what it is. I think, in a large part, that's exactly the reason why the VO kickstarter is doing double plus ungreat. VO has garnered a ton of publicity, it has a ton of great things that it does, is the only game I know that can be played on nearly every platform ever, and has a hugely dedicated dev team behind it. But without knowing why VO is a thing and why I should care, there is no way for me to innately understand where VO is headed.
I'm going to cherry pick some examples to support this, but for brevity I am not going to go into much detail about companies/games/etc that are also successful but don't quite fit the same mold. Note that there are cases where things or companies are successful purely on technical merit, but despite how awesome the tech in VO is (a ton of which was and still is years ahead of anything else I've seen), VO is clearly not one of those companies that is wildly successful on technical merit alone.
Pretty much everyone here has seen/heard of Chriss Roberts' Star Citizen. It will... eventually be a space sim, with combat much like VO. Roberts has clearly said it's not an MMO in the classical sense, but it will have a lot of persistent-world and MMO-like elements. It's not even a thing yet and Roberts has pulled in nearly 8.2 million dollars at the time of this writing. Over the last few days? Something around 200,000$. Yes, Roberts is famous for making the Wing Commander series. Yes, they have some fancy visuals. However, they don't have a scrap of actual gameplay (yet), don't have a playable demo yet, have maybe three or four shiptypes fully fleshed out, and yet have already raised over 80 times more than VO has. In the fundraising pitch, Roberts lays out, first thing, why he's making Star Citizen and why I should care.
http://vimeo.com/51135962
"They said I was dead.
They said console was the future.
Now they say mobile and tablets are the future.
I tell you, reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
I am a PC Game.
And I am a Space Sim."
That's the only actual words in the first two minutes or so of the pitch video, but already Roberts has laid out exactly why he's making Star Citizen and why I should care. According to him, if I have a PC and have lamented the lack of quality PC titles and/or quality space sims, I should back Star Citizen. Not, "you should back Star Citizen because it's a persistent universe." Not, "you should back Star Citizen because it's pretty." But, "you should back Star Citizen if you care about PC gaming or if you care about space sims." That, I think, is why Star Citizen-- a couple of pitch videos and concept art at this stage-- earled about 200,000$ over the last few days and VO-- a fully playable, working game across several platforms-- has not.
We can look at a bunch of different projects and companies and do the exact same analysis. Apple's "Think Different", Google's "Organize the World's Information, Make it Universally Accessible", Microsoft's original "Computing for Everyone", FTL's "Recreating an Atmosphere of Running a Spaceship and Exploring the Galaxy". Doublefine's "Bringing Back Adventure Games" and "Removing the Publisher from Game Funding." These are all great reasons why a product is made and why I should care. All of these resonate with a ton of people to boot. VO doesn't have one. It doesn't even have one that nobody really cares about. It has a ton of great what's and a bunch of cool how's, but no why, or a at least not a visible one.
Note: I very, very briefly touched on this, but the 'why' also needs to resonate with people. If nobody buys into your why then, well, nobody forks money over. That said, having a coherent why behind things probably makes a bunch of people feel more comfortable backing a project because they have a general idea of where it's going to go. If the reason why a project exists resonates, I know it's going to fill some need. And the easiest way to fill any need is to throw my wallet at it.
That's why I have at least three guitars gathering dust in my closet and can't play a single one. It used to be four; I'm making progress.
tl;dr: Vendetta Online. I don't know why it exists, nor why I should care.
First, a list of answer to head off snarky questions:
Yes, I've backed the project.
No, I'm not going to say by how much.
Yes, I could probably afford to back a few times more than I already have.
No, I'm not going to increase how much I'm backing.
And no, I can't exactly back anywhere near Dr. Lecter has, but I haven't been the mouthy trading type for.... a very long time.
What bothers me about this kickstarter thing and Vendetta Online as a whole is that I've never once seen Incarnate spell out exactly why VO is and will be a thing, rather than just saying what it is. I think, in a large part, that's exactly the reason why the VO kickstarter is doing double plus ungreat. VO has garnered a ton of publicity, it has a ton of great things that it does, is the only game I know that can be played on nearly every platform ever, and has a hugely dedicated dev team behind it. But without knowing why VO is a thing and why I should care, there is no way for me to innately understand where VO is headed.
I'm going to cherry pick some examples to support this, but for brevity I am not going to go into much detail about companies/games/etc that are also successful but don't quite fit the same mold. Note that there are cases where things or companies are successful purely on technical merit, but despite how awesome the tech in VO is (a ton of which was and still is years ahead of anything else I've seen), VO is clearly not one of those companies that is wildly successful on technical merit alone.
Pretty much everyone here has seen/heard of Chriss Roberts' Star Citizen. It will... eventually be a space sim, with combat much like VO. Roberts has clearly said it's not an MMO in the classical sense, but it will have a lot of persistent-world and MMO-like elements. It's not even a thing yet and Roberts has pulled in nearly 8.2 million dollars at the time of this writing. Over the last few days? Something around 200,000$. Yes, Roberts is famous for making the Wing Commander series. Yes, they have some fancy visuals. However, they don't have a scrap of actual gameplay (yet), don't have a playable demo yet, have maybe three or four shiptypes fully fleshed out, and yet have already raised over 80 times more than VO has. In the fundraising pitch, Roberts lays out, first thing, why he's making Star Citizen and why I should care.
http://vimeo.com/51135962
"They said I was dead.
They said console was the future.
Now they say mobile and tablets are the future.
I tell you, reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
I am a PC Game.
And I am a Space Sim."
That's the only actual words in the first two minutes or so of the pitch video, but already Roberts has laid out exactly why he's making Star Citizen and why I should care. According to him, if I have a PC and have lamented the lack of quality PC titles and/or quality space sims, I should back Star Citizen. Not, "you should back Star Citizen because it's a persistent universe." Not, "you should back Star Citizen because it's pretty." But, "you should back Star Citizen if you care about PC gaming or if you care about space sims." That, I think, is why Star Citizen-- a couple of pitch videos and concept art at this stage-- earled about 200,000$ over the last few days and VO-- a fully playable, working game across several platforms-- has not.
We can look at a bunch of different projects and companies and do the exact same analysis. Apple's "Think Different", Google's "Organize the World's Information, Make it Universally Accessible", Microsoft's original "Computing for Everyone", FTL's "Recreating an Atmosphere of Running a Spaceship and Exploring the Galaxy". Doublefine's "Bringing Back Adventure Games" and "Removing the Publisher from Game Funding." These are all great reasons why a product is made and why I should care. All of these resonate with a ton of people to boot. VO doesn't have one. It doesn't even have one that nobody really cares about. It has a ton of great what's and a bunch of cool how's, but no why, or a at least not a visible one.
Note: I very, very briefly touched on this, but the 'why' also needs to resonate with people. If nobody buys into your why then, well, nobody forks money over. That said, having a coherent why behind things probably makes a bunch of people feel more comfortable backing a project because they have a general idea of where it's going to go. If the reason why a project exists resonates, I know it's going to fill some need. And the easiest way to fill any need is to throw my wallet at it.
That's why I have at least three guitars gathering dust in my closet and can't play a single one. It used to be four; I'm making progress.
tl;dr: Vendetta Online. I don't know why it exists, nor why I should care.
Scuba Steve, I appreciate your longstanding support, and you're entitled to your opinion. And in my opinion, your perspective on this is stunningly naive.
I answered this exact topic in the AMA, and I'm too busy to re-type it right now. You and go read it there, or.. not. But people fail to understand that an existing game is a liability, because anything tangible can run counter to what people want, where something imaginary is always exactly what "you" want. Logic has nothing to do with it.
Also, I was the most skeptical of the kickstarter of all, as those who read the original player-base proposal thread will recollect. But now that I've started, I'll damned sure finish it up the best that I can.
I answered this exact topic in the AMA, and I'm too busy to re-type it right now. You and go read it there, or.. not. But people fail to understand that an existing game is a liability, because anything tangible can run counter to what people want, where something imaginary is always exactly what "you" want. Logic has nothing to do with it.
Also, I was the most skeptical of the kickstarter of all, as those who read the original player-base proposal thread will recollect. But now that I've started, I'll damned sure finish it up the best that I can.
Note: I don't contend that everything (or anything?) about my presentation/pitch was optimal.. or even good. It was the best I could do, by myself, in a short period of time.
But anyone who thinks I could ever hope to pull off anything like what Chris Roberts did with a team of people (including dedicated marketing people), a lot of pre-existing fame for much-beloved products, and a significant investment of time and money.. is kidding themselves. The "big difference" there is not a glib tagline.
But anyone who thinks I could ever hope to pull off anything like what Chris Roberts did with a team of people (including dedicated marketing people), a lot of pre-existing fame for much-beloved products, and a significant investment of time and money.. is kidding themselves. The "big difference" there is not a glib tagline.
Whistler: Yep, I wasn't watching that live or anything when the AMA went down.
Incarnate, I think you're completely missing my point. Or something, I don't know. Either way: those are not simply just glib taglines. I think you're giving way too much credit to name recognition and production values as a way to redefine goalposts and continue on as per usual business.
Which is pretty much usual business.
This will be a somewhat long post. First, I'll throw in more and more fleshed out examples of successfully kickstarted games. Some with low production values and some with high, but plenty of games have managed to be kickstarted. After that, some failures as well. Unfortunately, making an MMO is hard as nails; I don't think I'll have any MMO-specific examples, so feel free to fall back on the ol' "MMOs are harder so that's why..."
I also didn't find anything where an existing company was raising funds on kickstarter and, honestly, didn't look very hard for it.
That's also usual business, but completely in your arena. I personally think that it's an unproductive way to approach things in any context, but feel free to discard that if you so desire.
Segue aside, Incarnate, I'm then going to do a quick review of your posts in the reddit AMA. More on that when I get to it.
To keep this short, the next section will be as concise as possible. Quotes aren't exact quotes, otherwise I'd be writing transcripts for the way some of these producers beat around the bush to get the the point. (cf, Banner Saga, Nekro)
Successful Kickstarted Games:
Wasteland 2; "I want to bring back turn-based, top-down roleplaying games as a genre"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2
Low video production values.
900,000 goal, 2,933,252 pledged.
The Banner Saga; "We want to make an artistic, animated game without external influence"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga
Representative animated clips, who the hell are these guys.
100,000 goal, 723,886 pledged.
Shadowrun Returns; "I want to bring Shadowrun to tablets and PC"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/
Large use of imagery, board game draw.
400,000 goal, 1,836,447 pledged.
The Dead Linger; "Embodies the gaming community's hunger for a true, open-world, zombie apocalypse survival sandbox."
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sandswept/the-dead-linger
Oh god, the video was shot with a webcam from 2005.
60,000 goal, 154,968 pledged.
Nekro; "We want to do a game that takes elements from Dungeon Keeper, Myth, and Diablo, but do new things with these ideas. We believe in deliverying the best game possible"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/343838885/nekro
Video shot with a webcam from 2007, boy this totally doesn't sound original. Limited pre-alpha gameplay footage and concept art.
100,000 goal; 158,753 pledged.
Starlight Inception; "We want to take a fresh approach to the classic space combat genre."
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/732317316/starlight-inceptiontm
No video! No production value here! I think the pledge reflects lack of video.
150,000 goal; 152,152 pledged.
Republique, by Hipsters; "We want to make a AAA iOS experience"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan
I can't find the original video, too many random updates.
500,000 goal, 555,662 pledged.
And the list goes on. Sourced original links from here and skipped DoubleFine and FTL because I'd already posted a bit about them earlier, and Leisure Suit Larry because it's... Leisure Suit Larry. A quick randomized grab of other games on the list assures me that you can go down and either all or a vast majority explain why they are doing what they are doing and why I should care.
And now for failures. I'm going to try not to scrape the bottom of the barrel here:
Wildman, the kickstarter that never finished.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gaspoweredgames/wildman-an-evolutionary-action-rpg
Name recognition and production value up, into, and back out the wazoo, but never once do they state why they are making this game. Every time the producer talks about Wildman, he only describes what it is or how they are doing it. Never once does he say, "I want to x" or "we believe y". Instead, he goes on and on about, frankly, pretty stale, generic RTS and RPG elements.
Such as:
You can make barracks and train new guys!
I am excited you can customize your character!
We'll make a map editor!
I am excited that I can make art of bashing and killing things!
I pretty much like to break stuff!
1,100,000 goal; 504,120 pledged before cancellation and the death of Gas Powered Games.
Retrovirus, give us money we're over budget.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cadenzainteractive/retrovirus
Kind of a boring concept, but so is CoD. Again, they mention what it is ("A descent-inspired six-axis shooter"), what it can be, and what they have so far. Never ever mentioning why they made this game.
75,000 goal; 29,720 pledged. Which is funny, because they have twice as many backers as VO.
Alpha Colony, a success, if the developer could afford $28
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1547218311/alpha-colony-an-exploration-building-and-trading-g
I can't say for sure why this one didn't succeed; It got very near to it. They clearly spelled out exactly why they wanted to make this game, specifically to bring families together like the lead producer's family was brought together by their Atari in the 1980's. If I had to guess, there isn't a vacuum of games families can crowd around the couch and play together.
50,000 goal; 49,972 pledged.
Failures sourced from a google search for "Failed Kickstarter Games". Went down the list and put examples in order. Two thirds of kickstarted game projects failed in 2012, for various reasons. Alpha Colony is a prime example here. That said, I have yet to see a successful kickstarter group that did not explain why they were doing what they were doing. Not why they needed the money, but why they are committed to their project and why I should care.
And now AMA posts. Split up into three categories and labeled for convenience (How, What, Why):
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/
Initial post. I am John Bergman. This is what we have, this is what we've done. (What you have)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8dzqqq
We support a whole bunch of platforms with really good feature parity! (What you do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e034o
Some of the difficulties we've had. If our company didn't need the money, we wouldn't be kickstarting the project. (What you need)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e06e4
Here's some of the cool stuff we're working on. (What you will do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e089v
How we manage some of the really cool stuff we do. (How you do things)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0an4
We bring a lot of innovation to tablets and mobile. (What you do)
Note: This was so very close to why, but just... not quite there. It hints at why VO was made in the first place and why you continue to work on it with such awesome determination and where it's going but... falls a bit short.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0da8
Anecdote about platform usage. (What our users do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0ho1
We've had to deal with some issues porting the game to mobile. (What we've done, how we work)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0kdz
We're busy, but we help other developers where we can. (What we've done)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0mxu
Answer to leisure question.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0nec
Big update planned in the not too distant future. (What's coming in the pipe)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0sd9
Some things you'd really like to see happen. (What would be cool)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0xux
Issues we've had.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e179l
We've been working on content all along, but there are a few things we can't do because of business needs. (What we've been doing)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e18gr
Answer about upcoming conferences.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1fah
We're working on a few things for the iOS release, we've dealt with code cruft really well due to how the system was designed to begin with, and opinions on player created content. (What we're doing, what we did, how we think about stuff)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1iim
Interesting story tidbits. (What we've written)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1k3u
Description of development goals for an 'endgame'. (What you'd like to do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1ox2
Stuff about what you'd like to do and what's possible with the AI in place. (More what)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1yz7
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e23en
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e2pec
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e36xk
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e39zi
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e3jsg
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e5atn
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e5dpy
What you'd like to do, how being resource limited affects development, what directions we'll need to go in, what issues we've had with KS and how we're not as cool as Star Citizen, sailboats, response to joke post, what we're going for in the future, what we can do.
And the kickstarter is exactly the same way. All really, really cool whats and hows. But it's hard to extrapolate off into the future based on what you guys say your goals are. Heck, on release the latest what was mining and fully fleshed out capships (shields, homeworld-style interface) in six months. We got mining three months early, and chunky-ass oversized fighters years late due to a compromise with userbase pressure. As much as I support you guys because I think you're awesome and have wonderful technology, I can't in right mind responsibly sell VO to my friends, family, total strangers I will never see again, or even mind frienemies because I don't know why you guys are making VO. And without a coherent vision, I can't honestly predict where VO will end up in a year or two years or more.
And that, in a nutshell, is my original point. I don't know where VO is head, and I don't think anyone honestly does. All the updates in the world on what you guys are doing right at this very minute right now and what you guys are planning on six to twelve months down the line assuages that somewhat, but it doesn't ever show a coherent vision about where VO is barreling towards. Or meandering, because MMOs are hard things. Because Guild Software needs a way to pay the bills at the end of the day. Because Vendetta Online doesn't have much market exposure. Because of a large variety of real, pressing problems that every single subscriber and more have already pledged more than the median average income for people 25+ in America in order to maybe, someday, help out with and make this thing a fantastic, successful thing.
Incarnate, I think you're completely missing my point. Or something, I don't know. Either way: those are not simply just glib taglines. I think you're giving way too much credit to name recognition and production values as a way to redefine goalposts and continue on as per usual business.
Which is pretty much usual business.
This will be a somewhat long post. First, I'll throw in more and more fleshed out examples of successfully kickstarted games. Some with low production values and some with high, but plenty of games have managed to be kickstarted. After that, some failures as well. Unfortunately, making an MMO is hard as nails; I don't think I'll have any MMO-specific examples, so feel free to fall back on the ol' "MMOs are harder so that's why..."
I also didn't find anything where an existing company was raising funds on kickstarter and, honestly, didn't look very hard for it.
That's also usual business, but completely in your arena. I personally think that it's an unproductive way to approach things in any context, but feel free to discard that if you so desire.
Segue aside, Incarnate, I'm then going to do a quick review of your posts in the reddit AMA. More on that when I get to it.
To keep this short, the next section will be as concise as possible. Quotes aren't exact quotes, otherwise I'd be writing transcripts for the way some of these producers beat around the bush to get the the point. (cf, Banner Saga, Nekro)
Successful Kickstarted Games:
Wasteland 2; "I want to bring back turn-based, top-down roleplaying games as a genre"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2
Low video production values.
900,000 goal, 2,933,252 pledged.
The Banner Saga; "We want to make an artistic, animated game without external influence"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga
Representative animated clips, who the hell are these guys.
100,000 goal, 723,886 pledged.
Shadowrun Returns; "I want to bring Shadowrun to tablets and PC"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/
Large use of imagery, board game draw.
400,000 goal, 1,836,447 pledged.
The Dead Linger; "Embodies the gaming community's hunger for a true, open-world, zombie apocalypse survival sandbox."
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sandswept/the-dead-linger
Oh god, the video was shot with a webcam from 2005.
60,000 goal, 154,968 pledged.
Nekro; "We want to do a game that takes elements from Dungeon Keeper, Myth, and Diablo, but do new things with these ideas. We believe in deliverying the best game possible"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/343838885/nekro
Video shot with a webcam from 2007, boy this totally doesn't sound original. Limited pre-alpha gameplay footage and concept art.
100,000 goal; 158,753 pledged.
Starlight Inception; "We want to take a fresh approach to the classic space combat genre."
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/732317316/starlight-inceptiontm
No video! No production value here! I think the pledge reflects lack of video.
150,000 goal; 152,152 pledged.
Republique, by Hipsters; "We want to make a AAA iOS experience"
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan
I can't find the original video, too many random updates.
500,000 goal, 555,662 pledged.
And the list goes on. Sourced original links from here and skipped DoubleFine and FTL because I'd already posted a bit about them earlier, and Leisure Suit Larry because it's... Leisure Suit Larry. A quick randomized grab of other games on the list assures me that you can go down and either all or a vast majority explain why they are doing what they are doing and why I should care.
And now for failures. I'm going to try not to scrape the bottom of the barrel here:
Wildman, the kickstarter that never finished.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gaspoweredgames/wildman-an-evolutionary-action-rpg
Name recognition and production value up, into, and back out the wazoo, but never once do they state why they are making this game. Every time the producer talks about Wildman, he only describes what it is or how they are doing it. Never once does he say, "I want to x" or "we believe y". Instead, he goes on and on about, frankly, pretty stale, generic RTS and RPG elements.
Such as:
You can make barracks and train new guys!
I am excited you can customize your character!
We'll make a map editor!
I am excited that I can make art of bashing and killing things!
I pretty much like to break stuff!
1,100,000 goal; 504,120 pledged before cancellation and the death of Gas Powered Games.
Retrovirus, give us money we're over budget.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cadenzainteractive/retrovirus
Kind of a boring concept, but so is CoD. Again, they mention what it is ("A descent-inspired six-axis shooter"), what it can be, and what they have so far. Never ever mentioning why they made this game.
75,000 goal; 29,720 pledged. Which is funny, because they have twice as many backers as VO.
Alpha Colony, a success, if the developer could afford $28
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1547218311/alpha-colony-an-exploration-building-and-trading-g
I can't say for sure why this one didn't succeed; It got very near to it. They clearly spelled out exactly why they wanted to make this game, specifically to bring families together like the lead producer's family was brought together by their Atari in the 1980's. If I had to guess, there isn't a vacuum of games families can crowd around the couch and play together.
50,000 goal; 49,972 pledged.
Failures sourced from a google search for "Failed Kickstarter Games". Went down the list and put examples in order. Two thirds of kickstarted game projects failed in 2012, for various reasons. Alpha Colony is a prime example here. That said, I have yet to see a successful kickstarter group that did not explain why they were doing what they were doing. Not why they needed the money, but why they are committed to their project and why I should care.
And now AMA posts. Split up into three categories and labeled for convenience (How, What, Why):
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/
Initial post. I am John Bergman. This is what we have, this is what we've done. (What you have)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8dzqqq
We support a whole bunch of platforms with really good feature parity! (What you do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e034o
Some of the difficulties we've had. If our company didn't need the money, we wouldn't be kickstarting the project. (What you need)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e06e4
Here's some of the cool stuff we're working on. (What you will do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e089v
How we manage some of the really cool stuff we do. (How you do things)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0an4
We bring a lot of innovation to tablets and mobile. (What you do)
Note: This was so very close to why, but just... not quite there. It hints at why VO was made in the first place and why you continue to work on it with such awesome determination and where it's going but... falls a bit short.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0da8
Anecdote about platform usage. (What our users do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0ho1
We've had to deal with some issues porting the game to mobile. (What we've done, how we work)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0kdz
We're busy, but we help other developers where we can. (What we've done)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0mxu
Answer to leisure question.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0nec
Big update planned in the not too distant future. (What's coming in the pipe)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0sd9
Some things you'd really like to see happen. (What would be cool)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e0xux
Issues we've had.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e179l
We've been working on content all along, but there are a few things we can't do because of business needs. (What we've been doing)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e18gr
Answer about upcoming conferences.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1fah
We're working on a few things for the iOS release, we've dealt with code cruft really well due to how the system was designed to begin with, and opinions on player created content. (What we're doing, what we did, how we think about stuff)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1iim
Interesting story tidbits. (What we've written)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1k3u
Description of development goals for an 'endgame'. (What you'd like to do)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1ox2
Stuff about what you'd like to do and what's possible with the AI in place. (More what)
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e1yz7
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e23en
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e2pec
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e36xk
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e39zi
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e3jsg
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e5atn
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18e7ek/im_john_bergman_creative_director_of_the_indie/c8e5dpy
What you'd like to do, how being resource limited affects development, what directions we'll need to go in, what issues we've had with KS and how we're not as cool as Star Citizen, sailboats, response to joke post, what we're going for in the future, what we can do.
And the kickstarter is exactly the same way. All really, really cool whats and hows. But it's hard to extrapolate off into the future based on what you guys say your goals are. Heck, on release the latest what was mining and fully fleshed out capships (shields, homeworld-style interface) in six months. We got mining three months early, and chunky-ass oversized fighters years late due to a compromise with userbase pressure. As much as I support you guys because I think you're awesome and have wonderful technology, I can't in right mind responsibly sell VO to my friends, family, total strangers I will never see again, or even mind frienemies because I don't know why you guys are making VO. And without a coherent vision, I can't honestly predict where VO will end up in a year or two years or more.
And that, in a nutshell, is my original point. I don't know where VO is head, and I don't think anyone honestly does. All the updates in the world on what you guys are doing right at this very minute right now and what you guys are planning on six to twelve months down the line assuages that somewhat, but it doesn't ever show a coherent vision about where VO is barreling towards. Or meandering, because MMOs are hard things. Because Guild Software needs a way to pay the bills at the end of the day. Because Vendetta Online doesn't have much market exposure. Because of a large variety of real, pressing problems that every single subscriber and more have already pledged more than the median average income for people 25+ in America in order to maybe, someday, help out with and make this thing a fantastic, successful thing.
> I don't know where VO is head
?? Incarnate wrote and said that like 3 or 4 times already: Walkable planets, better graphics, more PvE or P&EvP&E, making resources and economy a much bigger part of the game (which, as a person that likes to make stuff go boom, I don't really care about. In a game I don't need a particular reason to blow something up, just give me red rectangles around the stuff I can blow up and I'm happy. Oh and make it shiny :)) and bring in strategic elements.
Also: If you had questions you could have asked them on reddit. I asked what I was curious about and got my answer.
Also about that reddit stuff: Inc just answered the questions that were thrown at him. And he did a good job at that. Also you should put a tl;dr under such a long post.
?? Incarnate wrote and said that like 3 or 4 times already: Walkable planets, better graphics, more PvE or P&EvP&E, making resources and economy a much bigger part of the game (which, as a person that likes to make stuff go boom, I don't really care about. In a game I don't need a particular reason to blow something up, just give me red rectangles around the stuff I can blow up and I'm happy. Oh and make it shiny :)) and bring in strategic elements.
Also: If you had questions you could have asked them on reddit. I asked what I was curious about and got my answer.
Also about that reddit stuff: Inc just answered the questions that were thrown at him. And he did a good job at that. Also you should put a tl;dr under such a long post.
I forgot to mention:
I think the kickstarter was obviously and exactly the right idea, if maybe a bit late. There are a number of niggles I'd take with it, such as a couple of the stretch goals giving me the impression of "we need stretch goals and we'll never make it to 500k$ so here's a bunch of crazy stuff we'll never have to do" and higher-tier rewards looking substantial, but not feeling/being sold that way. My biggest issue is just that I don't know why I should care, though the kickstarter is really well done and looks really nice.
It feels empty, like soul of pretty Ukrainian robot lover.
I think the kickstarter was obviously and exactly the right idea, if maybe a bit late. There are a number of niggles I'd take with it, such as a couple of the stretch goals giving me the impression of "we need stretch goals and we'll never make it to 500k$ so here's a bunch of crazy stuff we'll never have to do" and higher-tier rewards looking substantial, but not feeling/being sold that way. My biggest issue is just that I don't know why I should care, though the kickstarter is really well done and looks really nice.
It feels empty, like soul of pretty Ukrainian robot lover.
The point of this thread is for people to rally together stop using it as a place to seem overly smart as if you have some "missing link" or "explanation"
Which you don't.
Don't respond either if it isn't positive. Carry on.
Which you don't.
Don't respond either if it isn't positive. Carry on.
Great post Steve. Inc, it's stuff you don't want to hear or believe, but that doesn't make it not true. I urge you to re-read Steve's posts without ego-goggles. That goes for everyone above dismissing Steve's post as well. Take your blinders off. There was nothing in Steve's posts that was inflammatory, it was all very well thought out and explanatory. Johns dismissal is more evidence that VO doesn't deserve out support.