Forums » Suggestions
Deku, how about you start within 1K of me, I'll be in a moth, you in an Aggresso, and we'll see how long I'll live? better yet, you in an SCP?
no offense intended here, but unless you've actually tried this, please _try_ this first. the moth has a turbo thrust of 1400, if a moth weighs in at 45000kgs loaded, that's 32kgs / N of thrust. for a loaded Aggresso, we're looking at around 17500 kgs loaded with weapons and 600N of turbo thrust. that's 29kgs / N of thrust, ie, pretty much the same. yes, the Aggresso will accelerate faster, but not a lot. and with 55 drain, you'll have to use rockets to kill my moth, since when you go out of battery, you'll have to tap to stay within fireing range (and you'll need almost four full FC batteries to get my 45K armor). with a turbo max speed of 200, you can't tap-boost at more than maybe 160, which means I'm gone.
if you're looking at a pure rocket (no energy) layout, you can have 32 sunflares and 12 jacks (no screamers, they're 60 energy each). that's a total of 75200 armor if you hit every shot dead on. with a ship as heavy and slow as the Aggresso, that won't happen, a 50% hit ratio will be darn amazing.
an SCP will be a totally lost cause with its drain of 60, even though it has 220 top speed.
recently, I have killed my first moth in a TD Hog with megaposi (66DPE) and a sunflare launcher. the ONLY reason I managed to do this was that the prey never went through empty sectors, just kept his route steady, was heavily loaded, _and_ never dropped mines. after the first sector the pilot should have jumped through some empty sectors and docked (even at 70%), and he'd be perfectly safe. oh, yeah, and how did I get him to 70%? he was standing still and starting to run when I started to fire.
one thing that can work is flare valks, but again, it requires a lot of good ifs to go through.
no offense intended here, but unless you've actually tried this, please _try_ this first. the moth has a turbo thrust of 1400, if a moth weighs in at 45000kgs loaded, that's 32kgs / N of thrust. for a loaded Aggresso, we're looking at around 17500 kgs loaded with weapons and 600N of turbo thrust. that's 29kgs / N of thrust, ie, pretty much the same. yes, the Aggresso will accelerate faster, but not a lot. and with 55 drain, you'll have to use rockets to kill my moth, since when you go out of battery, you'll have to tap to stay within fireing range (and you'll need almost four full FC batteries to get my 45K armor). with a turbo max speed of 200, you can't tap-boost at more than maybe 160, which means I'm gone.
if you're looking at a pure rocket (no energy) layout, you can have 32 sunflares and 12 jacks (no screamers, they're 60 energy each). that's a total of 75200 armor if you hit every shot dead on. with a ship as heavy and slow as the Aggresso, that won't happen, a 50% hit ratio will be darn amazing.
an SCP will be a totally lost cause with its drain of 60, even though it has 220 top speed.
recently, I have killed my first moth in a TD Hog with megaposi (66DPE) and a sunflare launcher. the ONLY reason I managed to do this was that the prey never went through empty sectors, just kept his route steady, was heavily loaded, _and_ never dropped mines. after the first sector the pilot should have jumped through some empty sectors and docked (even at 70%), and he'd be perfectly safe. oh, yeah, and how did I get him to 70%? he was standing still and starting to run when I started to fire.
one thing that can work is flare valks, but again, it requires a lot of good ifs to go through.
The Ship "Behemoth" is well rounded ship in the game. Yes its "Fast" but to a certain degree. This ship in no way can fight maybe Defend but not fight. Plus this ship is PREY. The only problem is their isnt too many PREDATORS(Pirates). I LOVE this game. After they do thier main "Updates" and start to advertise the game will BE BETTER THAN EVER. You people complain about "Uber" things but in reality THIS IS A TWITCHED BASED GAME. So all you people that are use to the no skill clickity click can build skill cause you know you earned it. Earning a Bushunter is a SIGN that your skill with any ship is good. This Game is good, and let the devs do thier work without pestering them how they "mest up" cause to me this whole game is realistic. By the way, one nuetron with a fast charge within a few 10-15 hits will easilsy destroy a Moth cause of its great size.
Question for you Morentin, how many Behemoths have you destroyed?
I have won every fight I've been in when I was flying a Behemoth. Because when I'm in a Behemoth, I "win" a fight by getting away. Just because the Behemoth can't easily destroy other ships, doesn't mean it doesn't win its fights. Like you say, it's PREY. If it survives, it wins. And it wins far too easily.
The low playerbase does create some problems, but the Behemoth's stats are a seperate issue. The problem with the current Behemoth stats, that the suggestion to slow it down should help to solve, is that in order to reliably kill it, you need three or more ships attacking it all at the same time. Any ship that easily "wins" fights, even when it's outnumbered more than 2 to 1, is "Uber" and should be changed.
Yes, this is a twitch based game. But even in twitch based games, it is possible for some things to be unbalanced, to the point where no amount of skill can be counted on to accomplish a goal. I feel confidant saying that in a Moth I can escape any player who tries to attack me - even if the other player is MUCH more skilled than I am.
It isn't my intent to "pester the devs", but when there's something that I think should be changed in order to improve the game, I'm going to say so. That's why they have this suggestions board.
Oh, and the Behemoth has 45000 armor points, which means it would take 75 hits by a Neutron blaster (600 damage).
I have won every fight I've been in when I was flying a Behemoth. Because when I'm in a Behemoth, I "win" a fight by getting away. Just because the Behemoth can't easily destroy other ships, doesn't mean it doesn't win its fights. Like you say, it's PREY. If it survives, it wins. And it wins far too easily.
The low playerbase does create some problems, but the Behemoth's stats are a seperate issue. The problem with the current Behemoth stats, that the suggestion to slow it down should help to solve, is that in order to reliably kill it, you need three or more ships attacking it all at the same time. Any ship that easily "wins" fights, even when it's outnumbered more than 2 to 1, is "Uber" and should be changed.
Yes, this is a twitch based game. But even in twitch based games, it is possible for some things to be unbalanced, to the point where no amount of skill can be counted on to accomplish a goal. I feel confidant saying that in a Moth I can escape any player who tries to attack me - even if the other player is MUCH more skilled than I am.
It isn't my intent to "pester the devs", but when there's something that I think should be changed in order to improve the game, I'm going to say so. That's why they have this suggestions board.
Oh, and the Behemoth has 45000 armor points, which means it would take 75 hits by a Neutron blaster (600 damage).
Ok here's a fun test case.
Solution, Tramshed, MysticRogue, Shape, Tumblemonster and myself all took part in a Moth hunt. The Moth was travelling from Azek D11 to Initros O12. The Moth pilot didn't try anything overly tricky. He normally flew direct and only used concussion mines. Admittedly he had very good sector load times, whereas Solution and myself at least didn't. However even with 5 - 6 of use after him we still couldn't kill his moth. I think the best we got was around 30% after I tried to take him out at the station.
Another example is a certain trader who regularly runs a Moth from Azek to Odia. On regular occasions there have been 2 - 5 pirates chasing him. He does it pretty regularly and has made around 500 trips along this route. I reckon I could count on my ten fingers the number of times he's been successfully pirated. He has around 45 pk's iirc, most of which are, I suspect from mines.
Oh yeah, 75 neutron hits are around 3.5 full fast charge batteries.
Solution, Tramshed, MysticRogue, Shape, Tumblemonster and myself all took part in a Moth hunt. The Moth was travelling from Azek D11 to Initros O12. The Moth pilot didn't try anything overly tricky. He normally flew direct and only used concussion mines. Admittedly he had very good sector load times, whereas Solution and myself at least didn't. However even with 5 - 6 of use after him we still couldn't kill his moth. I think the best we got was around 30% after I tried to take him out at the station.
Another example is a certain trader who regularly runs a Moth from Azek to Odia. On regular occasions there have been 2 - 5 pirates chasing him. He does it pretty regularly and has made around 500 trips along this route. I reckon I could count on my ten fingers the number of times he's been successfully pirated. He has around 45 pk's iirc, most of which are, I suspect from mines.
Oh yeah, 75 neutron hits are around 3.5 full fast charge batteries.
Now that I actually made some trading in a moth with pirates on my tail, I must agree with this proposal. It's not only that I'm getting away every time - sometimes I kill a poor pirate with mines. This is... so wrong. And yes, I'm a trader, so I should be interested in keeping moth as it is, but it's currently not very challenging... Cut its speed by 10m/s and let us see how it works then...
heres the answer. IF you see a moth tell everyone and WE WILL NOT LET IT LIVE.
Well, I just moved to a new apartment & won't have internet access at home until next Tuesday, and then I'll be working until Thursday, so I can't do this for another week at least, but once I get the chance, how about we do this:
I'll buy a Moth & a full load of Luxury Goods in Jallik. I'll announce on channel 100 when I'm departing, and every time I warp through a WH. My goal will be to get to an undisclosed station in Odia and sell my cargo. Think you'll be able to catch me, Morentin? This'll be fun.
I'll buy a Moth & a full load of Luxury Goods in Jallik. I'll announce on channel 100 when I'm departing, and every time I warp through a WH. My goal will be to get to an undisclosed station in Odia and sell my cargo. Think you'll be able to catch me, Morentin? This'll be fun.
Will you use mines?
Good question. Usually I don't bother with mines, but if you want me to I will. I will jump empty sectors & dock along the way to repair, as needs be. I might do it more than once, sometimes with mines, sometimes without.
Concussion mines are usually enough to squash any hope.
On Centaurs they're not quite as effective, because you have the time to boost parallel to the cent and swoop in for shots.
On a Moth, they ruin all hope, since the moth accelerates so damn fast, you don't have much of a choice but to line up behind it.
On Centaurs they're not quite as effective, because you have the time to boost parallel to the cent and swoop in for shots.
On a Moth, they ruin all hope, since the moth accelerates so damn fast, you don't have much of a choice but to line up behind it.
Hmmm. I'll try it with no mines first, if I die I'll do it again with concs. We'll see if I even need the mines to survive. Oh, anyone else who wants to do this before I get a chance to is welcome to. I'd be intereested to see hear how it goes. Next Thursday would be the earliest I'll be able to play again.
There's no ship like the behemoth. It's almost a bridge into capitol ships. It SHOULD take more than one person to destroy. Though, not more than 3. I say have its speed reduced by 20/ms (no devs that doesn't mean take away its turbo) and then see how easy it is to pirate. 120cu should be enough for pirates to actually get together and group pirate.... if only we had more people.
MAKE GREY SPACE DANGEROUS!
MAKE GREY SPACE DANGEROUS!
The problem, KixKizzle, is that the Behemoth is a one-person ship. One person should not be able to single-handedly pilot a ship that requires more than one person to take it down. It is my belief that a pilot in an unescorted behemoth should almost always die when attacked my even one pirate. That encourages teamwork in the form of escorting, which is more likely than pirate teamwork to actually occur (hmm, odd grammar...)
Moths with average to good pilots cant be killed unless the moth pilot is completely out of it. Ive never died in a moth while trading. Hell the only time I ever die in a moth is when I decide to dogfight in a proxmoth, and even then I get a fair amount of kills (especially if im outnumbered) You just fly in, mine the piss out of them, soak up thier swarms, run away. You get one or two kills a run, and dont die.
Ok Rogue,
I'm starting to grasp the situation. MAYBE if the behemoth was piloted by two people, then it would be fair. (Because then it would be like the next phase in ships) BUT NO! It's not, and it should be slowed down drastically or take the top speed down drastically. I mean seeing a behemoth go by with two IBG's at its sides in delta formation would ROCK to see. Also this might take down the inflation that we see in VO (I mean it's so EASY to make money).
Solution #2
Make a ship that carries 400cu of cargo space. Slow as all get out. One rear gunner.
Now noone even cares about the behemoth cause ANYONE who considers themselves traders uses the MEGA-moth. And of course they pay 10k per wh in grey space to their escorts.
Now we'll have groups of escorts AND groups of pirates (in behemoths of course to carry the cargo) Trying to get that 400cu. Oh man I can almost FEEL the lag in Bait (b8).
/Givemoney Devs 2c
I'm starting to grasp the situation. MAYBE if the behemoth was piloted by two people, then it would be fair. (Because then it would be like the next phase in ships) BUT NO! It's not, and it should be slowed down drastically or take the top speed down drastically. I mean seeing a behemoth go by with two IBG's at its sides in delta formation would ROCK to see. Also this might take down the inflation that we see in VO (I mean it's so EASY to make money).
Solution #2
Make a ship that carries 400cu of cargo space. Slow as all get out. One rear gunner.
Now noone even cares about the behemoth cause ANYONE who considers themselves traders uses the MEGA-moth. And of course they pay 10k per wh in grey space to their escorts.
Now we'll have groups of escorts AND groups of pirates (in behemoths of course to carry the cargo) Trying to get that 400cu. Oh man I can almost FEEL the lag in Bait (b8).
/Givemoney Devs 2c
you guys must be no good. When im trading im turboing and healing and doing everything i can to survive and I still die. You have to be willing to chase. Ask some other pirates, IT MAKES THE GAME FUN.
I've given chase to a couple of moths in my time, and I've never gotten them below 50% in a Rev C (I was using dual-guass, as I was on my way to B8). The pilot however, did not do empty sectors, did not use mines, and just kept on truckin'. After going through 3 sectors, I was unable to fly any farther after him because he entered space where he had good standing (we had been in grey). Admittedly, I was equipped poorly, but there is really no reason a fighter shouldn't be able to catch a cargo hauler and cause trouble.
methinks Morentin doesn't have a FC batt or something...
I've been pirated all of 1 time, by yoda at the Edras-Nyrius wormhole. I happened to jump in right on top of him, and he hassled me with flares, so I jumped back through the wormhole. We continued going back and forth (I could have escaped somewhere in here, but I was laughing at the futility of both of our action) for at least 2 minutes, and I finally paid him. However, I have escaped from pirates many more times in a moth, and even in a ship so poorly suited to trading as a heavy-batt Agresso (yes, I really did try that), I have successfully avoided being pirated on a number of occaisions.
So, I really think that the 'moth should be slowed *way* down, and not just the top speed. Thrust too.
methinks Morentin doesn't have a FC batt or something...
I've been pirated all of 1 time, by yoda at the Edras-Nyrius wormhole. I happened to jump in right on top of him, and he hassled me with flares, so I jumped back through the wormhole. We continued going back and forth (I could have escaped somewhere in here, but I was laughing at the futility of both of our action) for at least 2 minutes, and I finally paid him. However, I have escaped from pirates many more times in a moth, and even in a ship so poorly suited to trading as a heavy-batt Agresso (yes, I really did try that), I have successfully avoided being pirated on a number of occaisions.
So, I really think that the 'moth should be slowed *way* down, and not just the top speed. Thrust too.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.TWICTH BASEd GAME!!!!
I FIGURED IT OUT.
How about just make it where everyone you kill, you get exp and money. Then make a badge where it says:
- Professional Pirate -
after you kill about 30.
"Homing Sunflares" or "Station Guard Confusion"
Where the station guards attack the Moth
That will give it reason enough to leave the as they are.
How about just make it where everyone you kill, you get exp and money. Then make a badge where it says:
- Professional Pirate -
after you kill about 30.
"Homing Sunflares" or "Station Guard Confusion"
Where the station guards attack the Moth
That will give it reason enough to leave the as they are.
or.....
How about we have balanced trade ships :D
How about we have balanced trade ships :D