Forums » Suggestions
johnhawl218,
i can understand the wish to keep nation specific abilities restricted. but i also think there has to be the posability of a serco "trator" or a UIT becoming effectively the same as an actual itany (and all the other combinations of cross affiliation) however befor that can be implemented the faction system has to make it harder to be liked by both Serco and Itani.
As forSpace man's post i think he is refering to the idea that was posted a while back where ships would level up as well as the pilot. esentaly this would mean the longer you flew one given ship the performance of the ship would inprive. This was intended to add more traditional RPG elements to the game as well as to provide a steeper penalty for dying without hindering PVP content signifigantly.
i can understand the wish to keep nation specific abilities restricted. but i also think there has to be the posability of a serco "trator" or a UIT becoming effectively the same as an actual itany (and all the other combinations of cross affiliation) however befor that can be implemented the faction system has to make it harder to be liked by both Serco and Itani.
As forSpace man's post i think he is refering to the idea that was posted a while back where ships would level up as well as the pilot. esentaly this would mean the longer you flew one given ship the performance of the ship would inprive. This was intended to add more traditional RPG elements to the game as well as to provide a steeper penalty for dying without hindering PVP content signifigantly.
Well if everyone is allowed to learn, then it will be like everything else in VO, vanilla, cause anyone can do everything if they so choose. There is no point at which your actions have set up barriors to which avenue you can take. Your right that the faction system needs improvement before something like this would work. Perhaps then like you say, if someone were to completely defect and then spend the time training they could learn the skill, but I still don't really like mixing special abilities between nations. Just like I would not want an Itani to be able to get implants and then gain any kind of man/machine interface bonus with there ship. I like having sharp class destinctions, roles that are played instead of the universal soldier approach that we have now.
you could make the use of faction specific abilities depend on your standing. when we get a standing where Itani + Serco = 0, that'll work out just fine for people who wish to defect and people who are of a specific nation, without limiting peoples choices from the second they create the character.
Why does one need to be able to create an Itani that can have implants and a serco that has shields? Why not just make an itani alt or serco alt. It's not like everyone just players one character (some do, but for the sake of the point). It just goes back to the super soldier mentality, that anyone should be able to do everything. On that point I completely disagree, there needs to be a point where a certain type of char can't do certain things, like serco with shields, itani with implants, etc. Just goes against everything the games about.
you should, IMHO, be able to choose what to be, a defector or a traitor is one of those things.
Philisophically, I support the idea of a "traitor", but with substantial and permanent penalties. Like maybe you can get a mix of the features of all nations, but never anything nearly as good as a high-standing member of any given nation.
Now that I could get onboard with. If it were a scale of 1-10 then same nation would get 1-10, but if you were a traitor, the best you could do would be 1-5.
the cumulative standing suggestion (where standing is never lost, only gained and weighted) would make it extremly hard to get a good Serco standing if you're Itani. and I don't want you to get a mix of the nations stuff, I'd like to see it so an Itani can get admired Serco after weeks of online time spent making Serco happy.
and, if you can't have Serco admired without having Itani hated, you can't have access to ships that lets you use the Itani sheild tech (which is needed to use the pilot abilities). in effect, you choose sides.
and, if you can't have Serco admired without having Itani hated, you can't have access to ships that lets you use the Itani sheild tech (which is needed to use the pilot abilities). in effect, you choose sides.
Sorry, but I've been away for a while. Now, to respond to the various points made..
quote by johnhawl218:
Harry, your missing the bigger point here. Itani do NOT have shield technology, AT ALL. What they do have, via the backstory, is the innate ability <etc etc>
quote by Beolach:
It might be possible for Serco to create a way to generate shields, yes, but in the backstory there is no instance of that happening. Also, the way shields are described in the backstory, the "technology" of the energy focus is only half of it, just as or more important than the technology is the spiritual training and strength of the individual
Well, I don't know if this has been taken into consideration very much, but perhaps parts of the backstory weren't written with gameplay in mind, and 'fun'. Right now, energy weapon fights, at least for me, are more frustrating than anything else, because light ships are so hard to both aim with, and hit with 'spray n pray' weapons. Especially bots.
The backstory is written in such a way, that it limits what we suggest, simply because it may not 'fit' with the backstory's vision of what the game would be like. Plans, like everything else, change, and need adjustments. I mean, where is the Hive in the backstory? And where are the goliath cannons in the game? Why can't we stray from what the backstory would suggest a little bit, and have permanent, recharging shields on our ships?
As for "fun per man hour", I think adding more customizability to our ships, rather than making bots less bland, is a far better investment. I botted my butt off, and I hardly go out of my way to shoot bots now. That's the real reason that missiles & rockets are popular. It's because you don't have to work your butt off, or play 24/7 to kill somebody. However, if we were given the ability to more easily hit somebody, and adjust hit points between shields and armor (more for shields, less for armor) as well as boost HP for ships overall, then fights would last more or less the same amount of time, while making fights more enjoyable.
quote by johnhawl218:
Harry, your missing the bigger point here. Itani do NOT have shield technology, AT ALL. What they do have, via the backstory, is the innate ability <etc etc>
quote by Beolach:
It might be possible for Serco to create a way to generate shields, yes, but in the backstory there is no instance of that happening. Also, the way shields are described in the backstory, the "technology" of the energy focus is only half of it, just as or more important than the technology is the spiritual training and strength of the individual
Well, I don't know if this has been taken into consideration very much, but perhaps parts of the backstory weren't written with gameplay in mind, and 'fun'. Right now, energy weapon fights, at least for me, are more frustrating than anything else, because light ships are so hard to both aim with, and hit with 'spray n pray' weapons. Especially bots.
The backstory is written in such a way, that it limits what we suggest, simply because it may not 'fit' with the backstory's vision of what the game would be like. Plans, like everything else, change, and need adjustments. I mean, where is the Hive in the backstory? And where are the goliath cannons in the game? Why can't we stray from what the backstory would suggest a little bit, and have permanent, recharging shields on our ships?
As for "fun per man hour", I think adding more customizability to our ships, rather than making bots less bland, is a far better investment. I botted my butt off, and I hardly go out of my way to shoot bots now. That's the real reason that missiles & rockets are popular. It's because you don't have to work your butt off, or play 24/7 to kill somebody. However, if we were given the ability to more easily hit somebody, and adjust hit points between shields and armor (more for shields, less for armor) as well as boost HP for ships overall, then fights would last more or less the same amount of time, while making fights more enjoyable.
If a shield is not going to be implemented (or maybe implemented in the future), I think at least shield effects would be nice. I mean in the way they don't directly affect the game play, but have the appearance of it. I came up with this idea when thinking about the effects of pretty much any weapon on the materials the ships are made from.
I can imagine, a plasma cannon or rocket, for example, tearing through or severely damaging the ships structure and layers of protection from the environment; damage like decompression, introduction of harmful gases and radiation (maybe resident in space or byproduct of projectile impact, like from plasma or ion weapons). Even if the ships are constructed from some super strong artificial materials, the force of the impact of a lot of the weapons alone I could see harming sensitive and probably vital equipment. Basically, I imagine the ships being fragile to a degree. My idea comes in here.
Until a ship reaches around 10% on the damage indicator I think the damage should be absorbed by a shield, which absorbs the damage with a pleasant semi-transparent blue glow in the proximity of the area of impact. Like the ships from Stargate SG1/Atlantis. Once the damage indicator reaches 10% the shield should cease to function and the ship should be shown to be taking the damage directly before (if unlucky) the enemy finishes it off and it explodes. While the shield is active the damage indicator should go from dark blue (full shield) to light blue(low shield) before going to green when the shield runs out, and from there, the damage indicator should do its usual red/orange/whatever on each part that is damaged like it does now.
This could be implemented without affecting the game, as the shield would only be an effect, and the damage system would remain as it always was. It would be NO harder to kill an enemy. I think it would be great for the immersion factor by making it more realistic but also keeping well away from being "over-realistic" and ruining all the fun. Besides, it would also make it easier (??) to implement a real shield with real effects and options in the future.
Also, the small rocks and crap that float around could "bounce" lazily off the shield as they collided while the shield is working.
Sorry for my bad English.
I can imagine, a plasma cannon or rocket, for example, tearing through or severely damaging the ships structure and layers of protection from the environment; damage like decompression, introduction of harmful gases and radiation (maybe resident in space or byproduct of projectile impact, like from plasma or ion weapons). Even if the ships are constructed from some super strong artificial materials, the force of the impact of a lot of the weapons alone I could see harming sensitive and probably vital equipment. Basically, I imagine the ships being fragile to a degree. My idea comes in here.
Until a ship reaches around 10% on the damage indicator I think the damage should be absorbed by a shield, which absorbs the damage with a pleasant semi-transparent blue glow in the proximity of the area of impact. Like the ships from Stargate SG1/Atlantis. Once the damage indicator reaches 10% the shield should cease to function and the ship should be shown to be taking the damage directly before (if unlucky) the enemy finishes it off and it explodes. While the shield is active the damage indicator should go from dark blue (full shield) to light blue(low shield) before going to green when the shield runs out, and from there, the damage indicator should do its usual red/orange/whatever on each part that is damaged like it does now.
This could be implemented without affecting the game, as the shield would only be an effect, and the damage system would remain as it always was. It would be NO harder to kill an enemy. I think it would be great for the immersion factor by making it more realistic but also keeping well away from being "over-realistic" and ruining all the fun. Besides, it would also make it easier (??) to implement a real shield with real effects and options in the future.
Also, the small rocks and crap that float around could "bounce" lazily off the shield as they collided while the shield is working.
Sorry for my bad English.
Shield effects would be a nice gesture, And would provide something more interesting when hitting an opponent that has 70-100% health. Imagine that all ships have these basic shields before you start doing major damage and these shields can be upgraded if you will. This opens up room for more Addons in the 'Other Addons' tab besides batteries. Perhaps a Device or Enhancer slot for ships?
I third Sihkzz's shield idea I rekon it is good and will be cool to see some visible effect.
...but it would make ships easier to hit. Which is a decidedly bad thing. So unless we're gonna get some sort of extra protection, it'll be unbalancing, especially for a ship like the Vulture. It'd make the Valk even worse, too. >_<
sihkzz: actually none of the weapons we use in vendetta-online (except the railgun) would make an effective space combat tool. Lazers and most other visible energy weapons would reflect of an appropriately mirror finished hull; Plasma would actually disperse far too quickly to get any significant range of attack; rockets and missiles, (unless neuclear in warhead design) simply lack the explosive power/mass ratio to do significant damage efficiently in a non-atmospheric environment. (its the shockwave and secondary fire [requires O2 ] that does most of the damage with explosions)
As such, little things like the ships not being as fragile as they probably should be aren't a big deal IMO. certain things are accepted to make the gameplay more interesting, and to me shields in spacegames have been overdone. Theres nothing like a few inches of good superhard alloy with an ablative surface covering (absorbs those micrometeorites and kenetic railgun projectiles) to protect you in the distant reaches of space.
In general I dont think the game particularly needs shields at this point, maybe something on the capital ships in the future, but i'm of two minds about that.
As such, little things like the ships not being as fragile as they probably should be aren't a big deal IMO. certain things are accepted to make the gameplay more interesting, and to me shields in spacegames have been overdone. Theres nothing like a few inches of good superhard alloy with an ablative surface covering (absorbs those micrometeorites and kenetic railgun projectiles) to protect you in the distant reaches of space.
In general I dont think the game particularly needs shields at this point, maybe something on the capital ships in the future, but i'm of two minds about that.
Spellcast,
but giving dhields to one nation as a signature technology promotes distinktive national identities and thus inpruves the game, even if shields in general have little effect on gameplay.
and laser weapons could still be effective against a reflective hull if they used an obscure frequencey or were powerfull enough (nothing is a perfect reflector). besides it's realy hard to keep your hull that protective shade of crome. especialy without shields to keep space dist from clinging to it.
but giving dhields to one nation as a signature technology promotes distinktive national identities and thus inpruves the game, even if shields in general have little effect on gameplay.
and laser weapons could still be effective against a reflective hull if they used an obscure frequencey or were powerfull enough (nothing is a perfect reflector). besides it's realy hard to keep your hull that protective shade of crome. especialy without shields to keep space dist from clinging to it.
Shields to 'tanis...
Cloaking tech to serco...
No prob there.
Cloaking tech to serco...
No prob there.
spell: lasers and other energy weapons would be effective even against a mirrored hull, just not as effective. No mirror is 100% reflective, so some energy is lost in the reflection. Where does that energy go? Into the material of the mirror. So fire a laser strong enough, and you could burn through the mirror.
I believe that rockets and missiles actually would be far more effective than you think, because you leave out at least one important factor. To my knowledge, nearly all modern air-to-air missiles have multi-part warheads. Yes, the shockwave and fire effects will deal damage, but the AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-7 Sparrow, and the AIM-120 AMRAAM all carry "blast-fragmentation" warheads, meaning that they also rely on shrapnel to damage aircraft beyond the range of the explosive blast itself.
So in space, I see no point in removing the fragmentation part of the warhead, and with a sufficiently powerful explosion, coupled with the missile's base speed means that you could get lots of shrapnel travelling very quickly.
I believe that rockets and missiles actually would be far more effective than you think, because you leave out at least one important factor. To my knowledge, nearly all modern air-to-air missiles have multi-part warheads. Yes, the shockwave and fire effects will deal damage, but the AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-7 Sparrow, and the AIM-120 AMRAAM all carry "blast-fragmentation" warheads, meaning that they also rely on shrapnel to damage aircraft beyond the range of the explosive blast itself.
So in space, I see no point in removing the fragmentation part of the warhead, and with a sufficiently powerful explosion, coupled with the missile's base speed means that you could get lots of shrapnel travelling very quickly.
When in doubt, draw inspiration from Sci Fi Friday. :P
Let's see, shields, railguns and missiles on Stargate.
No shields, machine guns, and missiles on BSG.
I guess we need more missiles...
Let's see, shields, railguns and missiles on Stargate.
No shields, machine guns, and missiles on BSG.
I guess we need more missiles...
rogue: don't forget they have those flak railguns, and the main cannons, whatever they are...
Missiles? Missiles?... where do I remember reading a good thread about those?...
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
Ah, right. That's what it was...
Missiles? Missiles?... where do I remember reading a good thread about those?...
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
Ah, right. That's what it was...
Out of interest, what kind of projectiles would be fired by railguns in the Vendetta universe?