Forums » Suggestions
Encourage Travel
Ask yourself, how easy is it to make yourself across the universe? The Deneb Race Event has taught us that it takes a little over 30 minutes for the average player to traverse the entire universe. Some might say this is quick. But others may disagree. However, given the number of sectors which are available total, I'm more inclined to agree that this is in fact a little too quick for an MMORPG game.
Storms were placed in the game to slow down travel. While they can be tedious at times, I think they do help in fulfilling the goal of slowing players down. However something more needs to be done. There needs to be a way to encourage players to actually travel THROUGH each sector, rather than around. And I think I might now how.
One thing most players tend to do right now when they enter a new system through a wormhole is they'll completely turn their ship around (180 degrees) and start boosting. Experienced players will know why. For those who don't know, it's because you can reach the 3000m jump mark far quicker than to travel right through all the asteroids in the sector.
One way to solve this problem would be to move all wormholes to the center of the system. That way no matter what direction you choose to go, you'll be forced to actually travel through the sector. This not only helps with the problem of trade ships being too fast (*cough* Behemoth *cough*), but it also makes overall travel slower and more appreciative.
I realize that this would require a lot of time to be spent on overhauling the universe. And I know there might be bugs where players will end up stuck inside asteroids in stuff. But if the center wormholes are properly spaced out and if all those bugs are ironed out, it should improve gameplay immensely by giving travel a real meaning and purpose.
Just my 2 credits.
Storms were placed in the game to slow down travel. While they can be tedious at times, I think they do help in fulfilling the goal of slowing players down. However something more needs to be done. There needs to be a way to encourage players to actually travel THROUGH each sector, rather than around. And I think I might now how.
One thing most players tend to do right now when they enter a new system through a wormhole is they'll completely turn their ship around (180 degrees) and start boosting. Experienced players will know why. For those who don't know, it's because you can reach the 3000m jump mark far quicker than to travel right through all the asteroids in the sector.
One way to solve this problem would be to move all wormholes to the center of the system. That way no matter what direction you choose to go, you'll be forced to actually travel through the sector. This not only helps with the problem of trade ships being too fast (*cough* Behemoth *cough*), but it also makes overall travel slower and more appreciative.
I realize that this would require a lot of time to be spent on overhauling the universe. And I know there might be bugs where players will end up stuck inside asteroids in stuff. But if the center wormholes are properly spaced out and if all those bugs are ironed out, it should improve gameplay immensely by giving travel a real meaning and purpose.
Just my 2 credits.
how does slowing down travel time give travel a purpose?
Traveling is going from point A to point B, if you want to give "travel" any more meaning, the only way I can think of is to make the rewards for going TO point B from A worthwhile.
What it sounds like you want is a way to make people slower so that you can catch them easier. And there are already a lot of threads on that subject with a lot of better ideas. My favorite is the one that involves making the batteries only be able to jump a certain number of sectors depending on how full your battery is at time of jump. So you can never make a wh to wh jump unless they are very close.
Say a sector jump uses up 60pt of energy from your battery. This means that your Heavy battery at max power could jump a total of 8 sectors (half a system) in one jump, while a FC battery could only do 4 at max charge. This also gives purpose to all the other sized batteries, like the light and medium again!
Traveling is going from point A to point B, if you want to give "travel" any more meaning, the only way I can think of is to make the rewards for going TO point B from A worthwhile.
What it sounds like you want is a way to make people slower so that you can catch them easier. And there are already a lot of threads on that subject with a lot of better ideas. My favorite is the one that involves making the batteries only be able to jump a certain number of sectors depending on how full your battery is at time of jump. So you can never make a wh to wh jump unless they are very close.
Say a sector jump uses up 60pt of energy from your battery. This means that your Heavy battery at max power could jump a total of 8 sectors (half a system) in one jump, while a FC battery could only do 4 at max charge. This also gives purpose to all the other sized batteries, like the light and medium again!
Well like I said, the universe is supposed to be a big place. Right now it isn't. Partly because wormholes are placed at the edge of asteroid fields. Since things like the economy and trading will already be tweaked, the longer you travel the more you'll get rewarded. So travel will in fact serve a purpose for those who have the patience and are willing to put themselves in danger for greater periods of time.
The universe is a big place - it's just that most of it is empty. I'd actually like to see more 'roids in sectors, but in most sectors have just a few 'roids, spread far apart. That would give players more reasons to explore more sectors: looking for better 'roids to mine, looking for mining spots not infested by the Hive, etc. I'd also like to see more types of "terrain." Currently there's really only two types of "terrain" - asteroid field, and not-asteroid field. See my suggestions on "terrain" here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/7897#130186
....a bypass is a way for people from point A to point B very very fast,
people at point C, lying between A and B, are often given to wonder:
what's so great about point B that everyone at point A in such a hurry to get there,
and what's so great about point A that everyone at point B is in such a hurry to do the same.
people at point C, lying between A and B, are often given to wonder:
what's so great about point B that everyone at point A in such a hurry to get there,
and what's so great about point A that everyone at point B is in such a hurry to do the same.
Point C is 51.7 parsecs from Point A and 32.6 parsecs from Point B.
However Point A and Point B are only 21.5 parsecs from each other.
A submarine, traveling from Point A to Point D, has to pass through Point B. The submarine navigator indicated that she has to travel 31.9 parsecs to do that.
The question is : what is the colour of the submarine?
[EDIT : it's yellow].
However Point A and Point B are only 21.5 parsecs from each other.
A submarine, traveling from Point A to Point D, has to pass through Point B. The submarine navigator indicated that she has to travel 31.9 parsecs to do that.
The question is : what is the colour of the submarine?
[EDIT : it's yellow].
Adding more asteroids may pose a problem with framerates for some people. There are already a few trouble spots out there that are a bit excessive in terms of asteroid placement. I guess that's why I suggested moving the wormholes towards the center rather than simply adding more asteroids on the outside.
But if there's a way to maybe reduce the central asteroid count and to displace it towards the outside, that might also work. I guess you'd just need to find a good balance. Either way some type of change to make sectors appear larger, more populated, and just more interesting overall would be nice.
But if there's a way to maybe reduce the central asteroid count and to displace it towards the outside, that might also work. I guess you'd just need to find a good balance. Either way some type of change to make sectors appear larger, more populated, and just more interesting overall would be nice.
I know I've said it before, but I think a great way to deal with travel time would be to re-institute the warp countdown timer. This would make it easier to catch runners, would increase travel time a little bit, and would add an extra level of tension in trying to escape (think: the Millenium Falcon being persued by imperial star destroyers, waiting to make the hyperspace calculations while taking fire, then warping away at the last second).
Make it based on the distance of the jump, say 0.5 seconds per sector. Therefore the more direct route across systems would be quicker in the short term, but with a higher risk of catching an ion storm.
I also like the idea of making jumps cost energy based on the distance of the jump... but until batteries have mass there still won't be any use for the light, medium, or free batteries.
Make it based on the distance of the jump, say 0.5 seconds per sector. Therefore the more direct route across systems would be quicker in the short term, but with a higher risk of catching an ion storm.
I also like the idea of making jumps cost energy based on the distance of the jump... but until batteries have mass there still won't be any use for the light, medium, or free batteries.
what would mass do to the batteries if it's the energy that is required to make the jumps, that alone would give a reason to use a medium batter, regardless of it's mass.
johnhawl, I'm not sure I follow... The medium battery holds no advantages over the heavy battery in terms of capacity and no advantages over the fast charge in terms of charging rate. How exactly would it be useful?
It batteries had weight (as I posted a thread on some time ago), then the heavy and fast-charge batteries would have a downside, unlike now where they do not. The medium and light would be, um, lighter. :P
I agree with the battery idea. But I'm not sure I agree with the timer. I don't think it's necessary.
It would just be nice to see people travel through sectors rather than around 'em. It's not necessarily just about slowing down travel in general. Remember, it's also about getting players to go through them and to enjoy the scenery or give a greater sense of excitement.
Some sectors are randomly generated. While others are made by hand. But they can never be appreciated if people just go into the routine of turning around at wormholes and boosting out into black space. That's just boring. You're essentially ignoring sectors altogether and are getting into the habit of just wanting to go whatever destination and wanting to get it over with quickly. And well, that's no fun.
If the sectors aren't fun to begin with, that's something that needs to be fixed in the game's design then. I'm sure that problem will be resolved later on. So I'm working off of that assumption with this proposal. So I mean don't think this is just about slowing you down. It's also about making the game fun during daily travels.
I think this proposal will also help liven up the universe a bit too. I think if you attract people more towards the center of the sectors, the tendency for PvP interaction will increase as well. And that's something which I think we still need more of. It can also appease those who complain about "runners" all the time. So in a way you can kill many birds with one stone.
It would just be nice to see people travel through sectors rather than around 'em. It's not necessarily just about slowing down travel in general. Remember, it's also about getting players to go through them and to enjoy the scenery or give a greater sense of excitement.
Some sectors are randomly generated. While others are made by hand. But they can never be appreciated if people just go into the routine of turning around at wormholes and boosting out into black space. That's just boring. You're essentially ignoring sectors altogether and are getting into the habit of just wanting to go whatever destination and wanting to get it over with quickly. And well, that's no fun.
If the sectors aren't fun to begin with, that's something that needs to be fixed in the game's design then. I'm sure that problem will be resolved later on. So I'm working off of that assumption with this proposal. So I mean don't think this is just about slowing you down. It's also about making the game fun during daily travels.
I think this proposal will also help liven up the universe a bit too. I think if you attract people more towards the center of the sectors, the tendency for PvP interaction will increase as well. And that's something which I think we still need more of. It can also appease those who complain about "runners" all the time. So in a way you can kill many birds with one stone.
I think a 3 second timer on the system jumps where the ship cant change course or speed would be about right to discourage running without a decent head start.
No need for a timer on the Wormholes tho, just disable the inveunerability during the outward bound portion of a jump. Since you CHOOSE when to make a jump, a player who can get right on top of you before you hit that enter key is gonna rip you to shreds before you finish leaving at the WH.
No need for a timer on the Wormholes tho, just disable the inveunerability during the outward bound portion of a jump. Since you CHOOSE when to make a jump, a player who can get right on top of you before you hit that enter key is gonna rip you to shreds before you finish leaving at the WH.
Now that I like, vulnerability while warping
I should probably add however that with my suggestion of being veunerable at the WH locales that every single WH inside nation claimed systems should have a permanant gaurd force patroling it to make killing players inside national boundaries more difficult.
So, any pirate camping at the right WH (like 0 likes to do) is gonna get an extra-easy kill? Nice.
I fail to see the need to do any of this, except as means of facilitating piracy. Didn't you guys get enough with the nerfing of the moth?
I tought the idea was to ENCOURAGE travel, not move us further away from doing any of it.
I fail to see the need to do any of this, except as means of facilitating piracy. Didn't you guys get enough with the nerfing of the moth?
I tought the idea was to ENCOURAGE travel, not move us further away from doing any of it.
it is pointless to make people have to visit several empty sectors to cross a system just because of battery charge. the delay of 0.5 seconds of calculations per sector you're jumping over, with a minimum of 3 seconds, seems to me to be a lot more usable. it doesn't lead to pointless hopping through empty sectors (which are going to be just as empty and just as pointless as now), but it makes things take a bit more time and gives tactical options for travel.
jexkerome, WH vulnerability increases risk, yes, but notice the *outgoing* part. you've chosen to warp, and if you see someone camping it and still do that move, well, you're asking for trouble. an easier solution would be to realign yourself, and find a different angle on the WH to prepare you for your jump (as well as there being guards posted in monitored space...).
jexkerome, WH vulnerability increases risk, yes, but notice the *outgoing* part. you've chosen to warp, and if you see someone camping it and still do that move, well, you're asking for trouble. an easier solution would be to realign yourself, and find a different angle on the WH to prepare you for your jump (as well as there being guards posted in monitored space...).
Arolte, I think there is one factor you're overlooking: while traders have little reason to venture through asteroid fields, miners have all the reason in the world to explore asteroids.
Also, some fighters like to fight in and among asteroids (vs. a vult... while crackbotting... to get swarms to crash) so there is a reason to visit the centre of a sector.
Hopefully mining will become all the more tied in with the rest of the game in future updates (valuable ores required for crafting high level weapons, capital ships etc.) so you will be seeing a lot more players venturing into sectors to search for ore and to clear out the hive bots to make way for the traders so they can get ore to make better weaps etc...
Here's a rather radical suggestion... what if each ship were equipped with a "jump engine" that had three attributes: warp delay, maximum range, and minimum clearance.
Also, just brainstorming here, but what about having a 1cu "fuel" widget carried in the cargo hold that was consumed with each jump. If you ever got stranded you would have to pay another player to transport some fuel widgets to your location and jet them. This would also make travel across the universe interesting because you would have to stop at a station every so often to refuel, and you would have to think carefully before making a lot of extra jumps.
Also, some fighters like to fight in and among asteroids (vs. a vult... while crackbotting... to get swarms to crash) so there is a reason to visit the centre of a sector.
Hopefully mining will become all the more tied in with the rest of the game in future updates (valuable ores required for crafting high level weapons, capital ships etc.) so you will be seeing a lot more players venturing into sectors to search for ore and to clear out the hive bots to make way for the traders so they can get ore to make better weaps etc...
Here's a rather radical suggestion... what if each ship were equipped with a "jump engine" that had three attributes: warp delay, maximum range, and minimum clearance.
Also, just brainstorming here, but what about having a 1cu "fuel" widget carried in the cargo hold that was consumed with each jump. If you ever got stranded you would have to pay another player to transport some fuel widgets to your location and jet them. This would also make travel across the universe interesting because you would have to stop at a station every so often to refuel, and you would have to think carefully before making a lot of extra jumps.
Phaserlight, I understand that there's some purpose to going towards the center and around the asteroids, but it just doesn't happen enough. It should be a daily occurence. I'm pretty sure the sectors were created so people could travel through them, not around them. It's such a wasted effort to put all this time into making all these sectors when 98% of the time players just spend their time facing away from them and boosting away like it's just yet another obstacle. And I think that's a damn shame.
I still don't agree with the timer idea. If my proposal were implemented, it really wouldn't be necessary at all. And it still doesn't solve the problem of having the shortcut of turning around and avoiding travel through sectors. In fact it'll probably frustrate newbies who don't know that technique, making travel more tedious than it is now. Every player regardless of experience should have to go through the sector.
I agree that battery capacity and energy should limit warp distance. It seems realistic enough. Wormholes require it. So why not in-system jumps? So I guess that's another thing I'd like to see too. It's just another idea to toss around to help with the universe being too small and all.
And jexkerome, it was never my idea to nerf the 'moth. I thought it was fine the way it is. So it's not like I made this proposal to put the final nail in the coffin or anything. It really has nothing to do with helping piracy or anything like that. I mean I think it's great that it might offer a greater sense of danger and more PvP interaction. But it has more to do with rewarding players who travel greater distances when trading. Or to make sectors useful again.
Okay, let me try to get another point across. Do you know how quick and simple it is to raise your faction standing through bulk missions? Do you know how quick and simple it is to get tons of money through trading? People have become so used to making quick and easy money that way, that now they're reluctant to accept any sort of inconvenience that may prevent them from giving them that fortune.
That kind of has me worried. Because I don't think it was intended for players to be flying around with 50 million credits or whatever after a couple of quick trade runs. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think everyone is supposed to be a millionaire like that. It just makes the game way too easy and boring. People should have to work hard for their money, not hop around from sector to sector and complete a short shopping list of selling trade goods.
Slowing down travel with this idea will reward those have the patience and willingness to put their lives at risk with those same great benefits of money and faction standing. While players who are impatient and don't enjoy traveling may be disappointed. But see, that's the point. It's meant to sort out the real traders who appreciate travel from those who just do it for a quick buck. That's the beauty of it.
I know the sectors aren't fun right now. I know they're boring. And I know the idea of spending more time in them doesn't sound very appealing. But if you think more towards long-term design changes, when NPC interaction and uniquely hand-tweaked sectors make their way into the game, you'll enjoy traveling and exploring the universe more than you do now. You just have to trust where this is headed. The devs are working towards that.
I still don't agree with the timer idea. If my proposal were implemented, it really wouldn't be necessary at all. And it still doesn't solve the problem of having the shortcut of turning around and avoiding travel through sectors. In fact it'll probably frustrate newbies who don't know that technique, making travel more tedious than it is now. Every player regardless of experience should have to go through the sector.
I agree that battery capacity and energy should limit warp distance. It seems realistic enough. Wormholes require it. So why not in-system jumps? So I guess that's another thing I'd like to see too. It's just another idea to toss around to help with the universe being too small and all.
And jexkerome, it was never my idea to nerf the 'moth. I thought it was fine the way it is. So it's not like I made this proposal to put the final nail in the coffin or anything. It really has nothing to do with helping piracy or anything like that. I mean I think it's great that it might offer a greater sense of danger and more PvP interaction. But it has more to do with rewarding players who travel greater distances when trading. Or to make sectors useful again.
Okay, let me try to get another point across. Do you know how quick and simple it is to raise your faction standing through bulk missions? Do you know how quick and simple it is to get tons of money through trading? People have become so used to making quick and easy money that way, that now they're reluctant to accept any sort of inconvenience that may prevent them from giving them that fortune.
That kind of has me worried. Because I don't think it was intended for players to be flying around with 50 million credits or whatever after a couple of quick trade runs. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think everyone is supposed to be a millionaire like that. It just makes the game way too easy and boring. People should have to work hard for their money, not hop around from sector to sector and complete a short shopping list of selling trade goods.
Slowing down travel with this idea will reward those have the patience and willingness to put their lives at risk with those same great benefits of money and faction standing. While players who are impatient and don't enjoy traveling may be disappointed. But see, that's the point. It's meant to sort out the real traders who appreciate travel from those who just do it for a quick buck. That's the beauty of it.
I know the sectors aren't fun right now. I know they're boring. And I know the idea of spending more time in them doesn't sound very appealing. But if you think more towards long-term design changes, when NPC interaction and uniquely hand-tweaked sectors make their way into the game, you'll enjoy traveling and exploring the universe more than you do now. You just have to trust where this is headed. The devs are working towards that.
thats what my tread was really about. ion storms stopping traders and giving pirates more of a chance.