Forums » Suggestions
Hi. I'd like to start a discussion on possible ideas for a crafting system. I know ideas have been thrown around in the past, but please feel free to collate and re-post them here. Here are some guidelines:
My intention is for a crafting system that ties together several areas of gameplay, and makes "all" areas potentially more important and useful. So basically, the concept is as follows:
Stations contain "manufacturing centers" which are skilled in different areas of manufacturing based on the type of station (military stations would be better at weapons/armor, mining stations might be better at mining equipment or other related things, and so on). This system could cover the construction of everything from weapons to specialized addons to, potentially, capital ships. At a given manufacturing center you could drop off a certain amount of component materials (ores, minerals, special related items, etc) and pay a fee to the center to construct your desired item. The center might or might not take a certain amount of time to construct the item depending on the scale (not sure? seems like a good idea for really big items, like a cap ship). The center might not take your job at all, if A) your standing was too low with the given station's faction, B) the station was too back-ordered for that particular item and wasn't taking further orders, or C) the station simply doesn't have the ability or the equipment to make what you want (ie, they can't build a giant cap ship at a tiny mining station, you need to go to a major capital for that).
Construction of items would succeed 100% of the time. However, in stations where it was not the specialty, if they took the job at all it might result in a sub-par version of the item. In fact, this could be restated that the quality of the item received (positive or negative) would be a reflection of the manufacturing center's specialization in that area. So, you might order, for instance, a "phased blaster", but you wouldn't really know what the stats were for a "phased blaster" from <enter station here> until you got it (or unless you talked to someone else who had them make one). Really skilled stations might turn out something better than otherwise available.
Long term: allow players to construct stations which include the possible purchase and "training"/improvement of Manufacturing Centers. Specialization could include its own set of tradeoffs. The better the items that are created, the longer they take to make, for instance? Giving a balance of "do you want to make a lot of stuff really quickly" or "do you want to make something really good". The arguement could be made that the tolerances and materials handling required to make the Best items demands more (manufacturing time|resources|money).
Possible Future: creation of "new" items by users in some way. Other games do this with various "recipes". Put in components of differing amounts and you suddenly get a different item. However, they (at least EverQuest) offset this with an incredibly annoying high probability of failure, where you sat and clicked and lost components to "gain skill" and eventually be able to Make Stuff. I didn't find this process of failure very Fun, so I'm avoiding it at all costs. I think there are better ways of handling it.
For instance, one could have the ability to create "plans" for new types of items, and still yeild a 100% success rate, but you wouldn't know what the properties were of the item until you tested it. I'm not presently sure of the best way to go about implementing this, and the ways that cross my mind involve a lot of complex interfaces, so I don't forsee this happening in the near future. But, I'll throw it out there for people to consider.
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Basically, it is my intention / hope to create some part of this system in the near term to help lend purpose to mining, lend value to pushing back the Hive, and add greater involvement to acquiring capital ships. It wouldn't *just* be a matter of money, you have to go out and find the Stuff necessary to make one, and some of the Stuff might be rarer than others.
I could just write up a whole spec for this right now, based on the above. But, I'm kind of busy with the new interface design, making the NPC traders act more interestingly, redoing the economy of the universe, and potential gameplay stuff like universal 5% thrust reductions and blah. I can only handle so much at once. So, I'm posting a really "light" version of this idea to see if anyone comes up with any interesting ideas in the meantime, so when I do get around to writing the spec for it, I can take the points into consideration and hopefully make the overall gameplay addition that much better.
As always, I'm looking for Suggestions (hence the name of the board :). When it comes time to specifying or implementing parts of this, your suggestions may or may not be used. In the end, I do whatever I personally think is in the best interests of the game. As long as that's understood, please fire away with any ideas.
My intention is for a crafting system that ties together several areas of gameplay, and makes "all" areas potentially more important and useful. So basically, the concept is as follows:
Stations contain "manufacturing centers" which are skilled in different areas of manufacturing based on the type of station (military stations would be better at weapons/armor, mining stations might be better at mining equipment or other related things, and so on). This system could cover the construction of everything from weapons to specialized addons to, potentially, capital ships. At a given manufacturing center you could drop off a certain amount of component materials (ores, minerals, special related items, etc) and pay a fee to the center to construct your desired item. The center might or might not take a certain amount of time to construct the item depending on the scale (not sure? seems like a good idea for really big items, like a cap ship). The center might not take your job at all, if A) your standing was too low with the given station's faction, B) the station was too back-ordered for that particular item and wasn't taking further orders, or C) the station simply doesn't have the ability or the equipment to make what you want (ie, they can't build a giant cap ship at a tiny mining station, you need to go to a major capital for that).
Construction of items would succeed 100% of the time. However, in stations where it was not the specialty, if they took the job at all it might result in a sub-par version of the item. In fact, this could be restated that the quality of the item received (positive or negative) would be a reflection of the manufacturing center's specialization in that area. So, you might order, for instance, a "phased blaster", but you wouldn't really know what the stats were for a "phased blaster" from <enter station here> until you got it (or unless you talked to someone else who had them make one). Really skilled stations might turn out something better than otherwise available.
Long term: allow players to construct stations which include the possible purchase and "training"/improvement of Manufacturing Centers. Specialization could include its own set of tradeoffs. The better the items that are created, the longer they take to make, for instance? Giving a balance of "do you want to make a lot of stuff really quickly" or "do you want to make something really good". The arguement could be made that the tolerances and materials handling required to make the Best items demands more (manufacturing time|resources|money).
Possible Future: creation of "new" items by users in some way. Other games do this with various "recipes". Put in components of differing amounts and you suddenly get a different item. However, they (at least EverQuest) offset this with an incredibly annoying high probability of failure, where you sat and clicked and lost components to "gain skill" and eventually be able to Make Stuff. I didn't find this process of failure very Fun, so I'm avoiding it at all costs. I think there are better ways of handling it.
For instance, one could have the ability to create "plans" for new types of items, and still yeild a 100% success rate, but you wouldn't know what the properties were of the item until you tested it. I'm not presently sure of the best way to go about implementing this, and the ways that cross my mind involve a lot of complex interfaces, so I don't forsee this happening in the near future. But, I'll throw it out there for people to consider.
---------------------------------------------------------
Basically, it is my intention / hope to create some part of this system in the near term to help lend purpose to mining, lend value to pushing back the Hive, and add greater involvement to acquiring capital ships. It wouldn't *just* be a matter of money, you have to go out and find the Stuff necessary to make one, and some of the Stuff might be rarer than others.
I could just write up a whole spec for this right now, based on the above. But, I'm kind of busy with the new interface design, making the NPC traders act more interestingly, redoing the economy of the universe, and potential gameplay stuff like universal 5% thrust reductions and blah. I can only handle so much at once. So, I'm posting a really "light" version of this idea to see if anyone comes up with any interesting ideas in the meantime, so when I do get around to writing the spec for it, I can take the points into consideration and hopefully make the overall gameplay addition that much better.
As always, I'm looking for Suggestions (hence the name of the board :). When it comes time to specifying or implementing parts of this, your suggestions may or may not be used. In the end, I do whatever I personally think is in the best interests of the game. As long as that's understood, please fire away with any ideas.
I must say that I really like this idea. Manufacturing is really boring so better to employ that station personnel. A couple of points though:
Refusing service because of back-orders may be vulnerable to hoarding of manufacturing time by players or guilds. Maybe the man. shops around the galaxy could adapt their supply to the demand?
If a player needs to gather some items for manufacturing something those better not be something that should be readily available on the market. Maybe for large orders delivering the raw materials significantly speeds the process (and gives some savings).
The kind and volume of orders could affect how a manufacturing shop developes (employees, experience etc). A station owner could explicitly invest in developing the shop.
On new items: rather than discovering novel combinations to stack ores there should be investment for research. Maybe everybody could order research for a price, maybe there appears "reseach project missions" that a player can take for funding in part or completely? (A NPC researcher applying for funding). Research projects could have varying targets, levels of ambition, as well as somewhat unpredictable costs, time and outcome.
Maybe funding research in your own shop or in an exclusive project could provide the player/guild a patent (exclusive right for manufacturing) the invention for a period of time.
Refusing service because of back-orders may be vulnerable to hoarding of manufacturing time by players or guilds. Maybe the man. shops around the galaxy could adapt their supply to the demand?
If a player needs to gather some items for manufacturing something those better not be something that should be readily available on the market. Maybe for large orders delivering the raw materials significantly speeds the process (and gives some savings).
The kind and volume of orders could affect how a manufacturing shop developes (employees, experience etc). A station owner could explicitly invest in developing the shop.
On new items: rather than discovering novel combinations to stack ores there should be investment for research. Maybe everybody could order research for a price, maybe there appears "reseach project missions" that a player can take for funding in part or completely? (A NPC researcher applying for funding). Research projects could have varying targets, levels of ambition, as well as somewhat unpredictable costs, time and outcome.
Maybe funding research in your own shop or in an exclusive project could provide the player/guild a patent (exclusive right for manufacturing) the invention for a period of time.
For quality of an item, not only should it be affected by the stations ability to craft an item, but the quality of the resources used to create it. You would be able to pay a station to scan your resources for quality, or you could skip it and hope for the best. Certain stations would require you provide at least a certain level of quality while others wouldn't care.
Also, a station with a top of the line small weapons manufacturing machine would charge more for you to use it than another station that has a basic version of it.
Also, a station with a top of the line small weapons manufacturing machine would charge more for you to use it than another station that has a basic version of it.
Well, my take on this.
I'd love to build special-purpose ships.
Say, I've always wanted a "dart" ship. An extremely fast vector runner that probably sucks as far as turn rate is concerned, no cargo, no weapons port. Perfect for fast transit, spy missions, arbitration of special events (cap wars etc).
To build something like this, or other kind of ships, one would probably need to accumulate a number of CU of specific ore. Xith comes to mind, but also ferric ore, plastwood etc.
Every existing & new ship should have an "ingredients list".
So, once you've accumulated all your ingredients, you must also buy the manpower. That costs money.
The amount of money you put in man power would determine the quality of your work. If specialized workers are not available in a specific station, then it requires more money as workmanship has to be outsourced or hired by the station dock handlers (garage etc).
It'd be nice to have procurement missions for specific materials required in a station to fill requirements of any ship in construction in that station.
Eg, let's say Mogul Velaio wants a Dart Mk2 and he doesn't want to mine the ore or whatever. An option in the build-to-order option would be to have guild mission procurement missions fulfill the need. Mogul wouldn't know when the Dart would be ready, but wouldn't have to scavenge all the parts.
Other procurement missions might require to bring another player's project to another station for completion.
And DARNIT! I want to be able to pass along ships and equipments.
There's not much point in an economy if you cant sell your realisations.
This might help trader guilds actually produce goods.
(I'ld love a single L-port Valk Vengeance... *drool*)
I might edit this one reply to add notes. I'll try to note where these were added.
I'd love to build special-purpose ships.
Say, I've always wanted a "dart" ship. An extremely fast vector runner that probably sucks as far as turn rate is concerned, no cargo, no weapons port. Perfect for fast transit, spy missions, arbitration of special events (cap wars etc).
To build something like this, or other kind of ships, one would probably need to accumulate a number of CU of specific ore. Xith comes to mind, but also ferric ore, plastwood etc.
Every existing & new ship should have an "ingredients list".
So, once you've accumulated all your ingredients, you must also buy the manpower. That costs money.
The amount of money you put in man power would determine the quality of your work. If specialized workers are not available in a specific station, then it requires more money as workmanship has to be outsourced or hired by the station dock handlers (garage etc).
It'd be nice to have procurement missions for specific materials required in a station to fill requirements of any ship in construction in that station.
Eg, let's say Mogul Velaio wants a Dart Mk2 and he doesn't want to mine the ore or whatever. An option in the build-to-order option would be to have guild mission procurement missions fulfill the need. Mogul wouldn't know when the Dart would be ready, but wouldn't have to scavenge all the parts.
Other procurement missions might require to bring another player's project to another station for completion.
And DARNIT! I want to be able to pass along ships and equipments.
There's not much point in an economy if you cant sell your realisations.
This might help trader guilds actually produce goods.
(I'ld love a single L-port Valk Vengeance... *drool*)
I might edit this one reply to add notes. I'll try to note where these were added.
universal 5% thrust reductions! BLAH indeed!
NONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!
NONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!
The interface needs to be non-annoying.
I suggest splitting the manufacturing panel into 3.
On the left hand side is your "parts inventory"- cargo, ores and stuff you have stored at the station.
Top-right is the "to use" panel, where you drag'n'drop the bits you need.
Bottom-right is the "recipe" panel, where you can find what the manufacturing centre will make given what parts.
The buttons along the bottom: Analyse (to see if the combination will make anything and the quality of the materials as a set), and Order (make, do, work, go go go)
I suggest splitting the manufacturing panel into 3.
On the left hand side is your "parts inventory"- cargo, ores and stuff you have stored at the station.
Top-right is the "to use" panel, where you drag'n'drop the bits you need.
Bottom-right is the "recipe" panel, where you can find what the manufacturing centre will make given what parts.
The buttons along the bottom: Analyse (to see if the combination will make anything and the quality of the materials as a set), and Order (make, do, work, go go go)
inc, well the traditional balance is between: cost, quality, and speed. So players are basically given a set of manufacturing options. If a player wants a certain number of Phased blasters (I think that specifying desired quantity is important), they're given the price per item (and then total), resources required per item (the baseline is probably all credit cost, and resources pulled from station stores, but if stores run short, then they either require the player to bring in resources, or pay extra), options for low/normal/high quality (though not necessarily limited to that. Advanced Rails, for instance, might be limited to normal, high, and match-grade, or whatever), and options for speed (1 day, 2 days, 3 days, etc). The longer the period, the more expensive the item would grow (you gotta pay the workers something), but the higher the quality will automatically get. Or if you pay more than baseline, then you can choose whether manufacturing time drops or quality rises (you're either paying for more workers, or better workers).
I personally think that having manufacturing times of at least several hours is important in an RP sense, as well as a gameplay sense because then no player could really get away with 24/7 combat because they'd have to replenish their weapon stores. If they run out of weapons, then they have to have more manufactured, and cannot fight during that period. However, if they plan ahead and trade a little while fighting, then they can continually have their weapons replenished, but they'd have to plan it all ahead of time. So I guess in a sense, it's a bit of a death penalty, because your limited weapon stores would be depleting as you die. If you die too much, you'd have to stop fighting until you have more weapons and ships. It doesn't permanently affect characters, so I don't think it would have much affect on PvP in Vendetta, but it would have a BIG impact on the importance of trading.
I personally think that having manufacturing times of at least several hours is important in an RP sense, as well as a gameplay sense because then no player could really get away with 24/7 combat because they'd have to replenish their weapon stores. If they run out of weapons, then they have to have more manufactured, and cannot fight during that period. However, if they plan ahead and trade a little while fighting, then they can continually have their weapons replenished, but they'd have to plan it all ahead of time. So I guess in a sense, it's a bit of a death penalty, because your limited weapon stores would be depleting as you die. If you die too much, you'd have to stop fighting until you have more weapons and ships. It doesn't permanently affect characters, so I don't think it would have much affect on PvP in Vendetta, but it would have a BIG impact on the importance of trading.
Take a quick look at this other MMORPG:
"A Tale in the Desert"
Not super-fun, no PvP, It's basically a hampster wheel of crafting based in ancient egypt. You start small and grow. Many of the things that you can make require real skill and observation (You'd have to have played this game a day or so, but i.e. making metal components on an anvil requires you to know where to hit and which tools to do it with. You can have the ingame skill to use the tools, but if the actual human player cannot follow the pattern to make a shovel properly, then you never succeed.)
The game makes the building and creation of things very complex, based on times of day, times of year, material scarcity, etc etc. You must learn skills and then apply them, make objects that allow you to learn more skills, etc.
I suggest that the devs at least try out this game for a day or so to get an idea of the way crafting is done.
http://www.atitd.net/home/
I think it's important that crafting be skill-based/twitch-based in JUST the same way that Vendetta-Online combat is skill-based/twitch-based.
"A Tale in the Desert"
Not super-fun, no PvP, It's basically a hampster wheel of crafting based in ancient egypt. You start small and grow. Many of the things that you can make require real skill and observation (You'd have to have played this game a day or so, but i.e. making metal components on an anvil requires you to know where to hit and which tools to do it with. You can have the ingame skill to use the tools, but if the actual human player cannot follow the pattern to make a shovel properly, then you never succeed.)
The game makes the building and creation of things very complex, based on times of day, times of year, material scarcity, etc etc. You must learn skills and then apply them, make objects that allow you to learn more skills, etc.
I suggest that the devs at least try out this game for a day or so to get an idea of the way crafting is done.
http://www.atitd.net/home/
I think it's important that crafting be skill-based/twitch-based in JUST the same way that Vendetta-Online combat is skill-based/twitch-based.
crafting in vendetta probably is somewhat more difficult to make skill based than in a game set in ancient egypt(we arent making shovels after all, we're talking about major manufacturing, probably computer run assemply lines.)
Additionally I dont think it would be needed, particularly if incarnate is looking at a time "cost" for items in addition to a materiel cost.
In general Incarnate the ideas look good, tho i'm not sure about being able to limit items produced by a station based on "back orders" unless there is also a limit to the total number of orders any one player can place at all stations combined. then set a "total number of orders" that each station can handle that is high enough so that a large number of people would have to max out thier orders at one station to cause it to stop taking new orders.
Otherwise the people with enough money and/or time will monopolize station construction shops.
One thing I would like to see is a redo of ALL the trade goods to create different qualities of trade goods, the quality of the trade good would be determined by the quality of its component parts.
For instance we have regular and premium ores (and purified in the case of xith). Additionally I'd like to see Ionized Ore added as well, minable only in ion storms.
Depending on which ores were used to create the item it would get bonuses (ranging around a 1 to 5% increase in capability depending on the ore?).
using parts with bonuses would give finished goods with bonuses as well. (balancing this could be a nightmare btw, but it would allow for a LOT of extra variety without significantly altering the equipment we allready have)
Maybe then to make an item you would purchase a "blueprint" of the item, then you know what parts you need, and depending on what quality parts you manage to get it would subtly alter the finished product.
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As for player/guild owned space stations and capital ships, require a similar setup to get them. player must deliver so many component parts in order to produce a station module or a ship hull. depending on what parts are used, determines the type of module you get.
hmm it's late.. i'm rambling i'll try to log on tomorrow and clean this up some... maybe come up with some more coherent ideas.
Additionally I dont think it would be needed, particularly if incarnate is looking at a time "cost" for items in addition to a materiel cost.
In general Incarnate the ideas look good, tho i'm not sure about being able to limit items produced by a station based on "back orders" unless there is also a limit to the total number of orders any one player can place at all stations combined. then set a "total number of orders" that each station can handle that is high enough so that a large number of people would have to max out thier orders at one station to cause it to stop taking new orders.
Otherwise the people with enough money and/or time will monopolize station construction shops.
One thing I would like to see is a redo of ALL the trade goods to create different qualities of trade goods, the quality of the trade good would be determined by the quality of its component parts.
For instance we have regular and premium ores (and purified in the case of xith). Additionally I'd like to see Ionized Ore added as well, minable only in ion storms.
Depending on which ores were used to create the item it would get bonuses (ranging around a 1 to 5% increase in capability depending on the ore?).
using parts with bonuses would give finished goods with bonuses as well. (balancing this could be a nightmare btw, but it would allow for a LOT of extra variety without significantly altering the equipment we allready have)
Maybe then to make an item you would purchase a "blueprint" of the item, then you know what parts you need, and depending on what quality parts you manage to get it would subtly alter the finished product.
-------
As for player/guild owned space stations and capital ships, require a similar setup to get them. player must deliver so many component parts in order to produce a station module or a ship hull. depending on what parts are used, determines the type of module you get.
hmm it's late.. i'm rambling i'll try to log on tomorrow and clean this up some... maybe come up with some more coherent ideas.
I was thinking of what to put here before I read everyone's post, so my thoughts my be similar to other's ideas.
1. Nation-specific widgets.
2. Refinement of ores.
Nation-specific widets:
Would be rated on a scale of 1-3, 3 being best. Say that the Serco have the best targeting systems around, they get a level 3. The UIT stole the blueprints and made one very similar for a level 2, and sold a half-arsed version of the plans to Itani at a level 1.
While crafting a weapon, with a level 3 targeting system, DING! you get excellent targeting...etc.
And while I will never have good Serco standing, the only way for me to acquire a Serco targeting system is to either bribe a serco player, or hire a UIT trader to get one for me...(player interactivity). Or on the odd chance that a serco NPC is carrying a load of them, then pop! he he...yay!
Also, on the note of nation specific widgets, maybe the component widgets are more scarce, and only found in certain stations that could be closely guarded. Maybe faction requirements for the purchase of certain nation-specific widgets...
Refinement of ores:
Various ores (and I like spell's idea of ionized) should be refineable, much like the purified xith. If I mine a load of heliocene, I can use it for crafting, but I only get a level 1, if I take it to grey space (where a refinement station is located) and get it purified, I can get a level 2 from the purified ore. If I take an ionized ore and have it refined I can get a level 3 ore for crafting...
So, I get my smuggled Serco Targeting System and my Purified Ionized Heliocene and make one hellava whooparse GaussMK9!!!
w00t, go devs!!!
kernel.panic
1. Nation-specific widgets.
2. Refinement of ores.
Nation-specific widets:
Would be rated on a scale of 1-3, 3 being best. Say that the Serco have the best targeting systems around, they get a level 3. The UIT stole the blueprints and made one very similar for a level 2, and sold a half-arsed version of the plans to Itani at a level 1.
While crafting a weapon, with a level 3 targeting system, DING! you get excellent targeting...etc.
And while I will never have good Serco standing, the only way for me to acquire a Serco targeting system is to either bribe a serco player, or hire a UIT trader to get one for me...(player interactivity). Or on the odd chance that a serco NPC is carrying a load of them, then pop! he he...yay!
Also, on the note of nation specific widgets, maybe the component widgets are more scarce, and only found in certain stations that could be closely guarded. Maybe faction requirements for the purchase of certain nation-specific widgets...
Refinement of ores:
Various ores (and I like spell's idea of ionized) should be refineable, much like the purified xith. If I mine a load of heliocene, I can use it for crafting, but I only get a level 1, if I take it to grey space (where a refinement station is located) and get it purified, I can get a level 2 from the purified ore. If I take an ionized ore and have it refined I can get a level 3 ore for crafting...
So, I get my smuggled Serco Targeting System and my Purified Ionized Heliocene and make one hellava whooparse GaussMK9!!!
w00t, go devs!!!
kernel.panic
I think this would be a great idea for the special variants of ships and weapons and even Capital Class vessals however it should also be possible to sell these items you have helped create that way a new player market of being a ship dealer could take place and open up new opportunities to the non hostile players but allow heavy combat players consistent access to the special features but for a premium fee to the player doing all the backround work
Sounds really cool, Incarnate. Can't wait to see what you guys are cooking up! :)
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10978
There's a thread I posted a little while back that basically suggests in addition to credits everything you buy at the station also requires a certain amount of trade widgets. Perhaps that's a little extreme, but it would certainly make keeping valuable mining sectors clear of hive bots of ultimate importance, and traders and miners would become absolutely essential to the economy. I'm not sure whether or not it's a Good Idea but I just thought I'd throw that out there.
A few comments on crafting in general...
- Strategy > > "Mini-games"
Crafting in and of itself doesn't have to be a complex process... sitting and playing see-if-you-can-click-the-button-at-exactly-the-right-time or complete-this-puzzle-in-x-amount-of-seconds is not Fun imho, just a distraction from what you are really trying to accomplish:
How does crafting fit in with the big picture? Is there strategy involved? When is crafting an item a good move? When is it a bad move?
From a single-player perspective, the only reason you wouldn't want to craft as many items as possible is scarcity of resources... if I had unlimited ore, tons of credits, and all the time in the world, is there any drawback to crafting 100 Vulture Mk Vs? What strategy is involved with choosing what and what not to craft? I think the answer lies in a different question:
Do stations have limited resources, or is crafting limited only per-player?
Personally, I think the first option makes for a much more interesting and strategic game. If crafting is only limited per-player then you could have ten Joe Millionaires sitting at the station churning out Vulture Mk Vs, but if crafting was limited by the station's resources, then Joe Millionaire A could potentially be depleting the station's resources or tying up its production line. Therefore just because you have the time and resources to build 100 Vulture Mk Vs doesn't necessarily make it a good move. If the choice of what to craft has some impact on the station itself, crafting can go from a hamster wheel activity to an actual game of strategy.
This leads to the next question... what gives Joe Millionaire A the right to choose to churn out 100 Vulture Mk Vs, using the station's valuable production equipment? Obviously he must have some kind of authority within that station... license levels, faction standing, some form of ownership perhaps? If stations have limited resources than obviously you can't have any old joe make the call to build a cap ship. Perhaps Joe Millionaire has clearance to manufacture a phased blaster but not a Behemoth, which is what license levels are all about in the first place.
This is what I'm really getting at:...
Right now, what we see when we dock at a station to trade or to buy ships is really only the front end of things... there are conceivably all kinds of processes going on within that station which we as players have no say in. Stations need ore to build items which they then sell to us players for profit.
Ideally, I'd like to see crafting (or manufacturing) worked in with Guild-owned stations. It would be guild members that chose what and what not to craft at a particular station, they would be responsible for bringing ore back to their station and selecting items to be crafted which could then be used by that guild or go up for sale to outside players. This is the invisible "back-end" of things that I would love to see players have the chance to get involved in.
I envision guild-owned stations as a kind of "Sim-station" strategy game (or perhaps X-Com would be more accurate). A station derives its income from selling goods, trading with other stations, possible docking fees, repairing or refueling ships, and expends income in keeping up its various habitat, life-support, manufacturing, and defense modules. Crafting fits in here perfectly. The guild council creates a mission to go out and collect 100 Premium Denic Ore, which lower guild members go out and fulfill... or better yet... they place an order from another station for 500 phase arrays per week which players and NPC traders steadily deliver. These resources are used by guild members to manufacture certain items which are sold at a definable price to the outside world.
The guild gets word of a new node of heliocene discovered in a nearby sector (the fruits of a recently commissioned prospecting mission) and defines a mission to clear that sector of bots so it can be mined and the guild station can produce more rare and valuable items which will attract more traders... As the station grows more habitat modules are built, personell is hired, bigger and more powerful manufacturing modules arise, the NPC defenses are upgraded... or if a station is poorly managed, it might find itself scrapping some if its manufacturing and habitat modules, or downgrading its NPC patrol wing (doesn't make for happy traders)...
Maybe its just me, but I see the potential for a brilliant strategy game in this.
edit: thinking more in the short term, without implementing entire guild-owned stations perhaps it would be possible for a guild to "set-up-shop" in an existing station, and from there conduct the gameplay described above... commissioning trade missions and ore, choosing what items to manufacture with accrued resources, purchasing better manufacturing equipment, setting the sell prices of manufactured goods etc.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10978
There's a thread I posted a little while back that basically suggests in addition to credits everything you buy at the station also requires a certain amount of trade widgets. Perhaps that's a little extreme, but it would certainly make keeping valuable mining sectors clear of hive bots of ultimate importance, and traders and miners would become absolutely essential to the economy. I'm not sure whether or not it's a Good Idea but I just thought I'd throw that out there.
A few comments on crafting in general...
- Strategy > > "Mini-games"
Crafting in and of itself doesn't have to be a complex process... sitting and playing see-if-you-can-click-the-button-at-exactly-the-right-time or complete-this-puzzle-in-x-amount-of-seconds is not Fun imho, just a distraction from what you are really trying to accomplish:
How does crafting fit in with the big picture? Is there strategy involved? When is crafting an item a good move? When is it a bad move?
From a single-player perspective, the only reason you wouldn't want to craft as many items as possible is scarcity of resources... if I had unlimited ore, tons of credits, and all the time in the world, is there any drawback to crafting 100 Vulture Mk Vs? What strategy is involved with choosing what and what not to craft? I think the answer lies in a different question:
Do stations have limited resources, or is crafting limited only per-player?
Personally, I think the first option makes for a much more interesting and strategic game. If crafting is only limited per-player then you could have ten Joe Millionaires sitting at the station churning out Vulture Mk Vs, but if crafting was limited by the station's resources, then Joe Millionaire A could potentially be depleting the station's resources or tying up its production line. Therefore just because you have the time and resources to build 100 Vulture Mk Vs doesn't necessarily make it a good move. If the choice of what to craft has some impact on the station itself, crafting can go from a hamster wheel activity to an actual game of strategy.
This leads to the next question... what gives Joe Millionaire A the right to choose to churn out 100 Vulture Mk Vs, using the station's valuable production equipment? Obviously he must have some kind of authority within that station... license levels, faction standing, some form of ownership perhaps? If stations have limited resources than obviously you can't have any old joe make the call to build a cap ship. Perhaps Joe Millionaire has clearance to manufacture a phased blaster but not a Behemoth, which is what license levels are all about in the first place.
This is what I'm really getting at:...
Right now, what we see when we dock at a station to trade or to buy ships is really only the front end of things... there are conceivably all kinds of processes going on within that station which we as players have no say in. Stations need ore to build items which they then sell to us players for profit.
Ideally, I'd like to see crafting (or manufacturing) worked in with Guild-owned stations. It would be guild members that chose what and what not to craft at a particular station, they would be responsible for bringing ore back to their station and selecting items to be crafted which could then be used by that guild or go up for sale to outside players. This is the invisible "back-end" of things that I would love to see players have the chance to get involved in.
I envision guild-owned stations as a kind of "Sim-station" strategy game (or perhaps X-Com would be more accurate). A station derives its income from selling goods, trading with other stations, possible docking fees, repairing or refueling ships, and expends income in keeping up its various habitat, life-support, manufacturing, and defense modules. Crafting fits in here perfectly. The guild council creates a mission to go out and collect 100 Premium Denic Ore, which lower guild members go out and fulfill... or better yet... they place an order from another station for 500 phase arrays per week which players and NPC traders steadily deliver. These resources are used by guild members to manufacture certain items which are sold at a definable price to the outside world.
The guild gets word of a new node of heliocene discovered in a nearby sector (the fruits of a recently commissioned prospecting mission) and defines a mission to clear that sector of bots so it can be mined and the guild station can produce more rare and valuable items which will attract more traders... As the station grows more habitat modules are built, personell is hired, bigger and more powerful manufacturing modules arise, the NPC defenses are upgraded... or if a station is poorly managed, it might find itself scrapping some if its manufacturing and habitat modules, or downgrading its NPC patrol wing (doesn't make for happy traders)...
Maybe its just me, but I see the potential for a brilliant strategy game in this.
edit: thinking more in the short term, without implementing entire guild-owned stations perhaps it would be possible for a guild to "set-up-shop" in an existing station, and from there conduct the gameplay described above... commissioning trade missions and ore, choosing what items to manufacture with accrued resources, purchasing better manufacturing equipment, setting the sell prices of manufactured goods etc.
This is more economy, but I think it's very important for crafting.
I think a station should be able to have stocks of everything. If you want something, for instance a Vulture MkII, you either buy it from the station stock (if they have it in stock) or you let them make one (if they can)
If you let 'em make one, the process requires some "ingredients". Those ingredients can either come out of the station stock (you buy it from the station), or your own stock at that station (or you have the station make 'em if they can and if the ingredients are available)
Prices of items at stations offcourse depend on the current stock. A station might allways try to have 100 Vultures MkII in stock, and be able to produce 25 Vultures MkII per day. If demand is high, it might run low on Vultures MkII, so prices go up.
Producing a Vultures requires (amoung others) a targeting computer. If the station has no targeting computers, and can't make targeting computers, they can't make Vultures, driving up the price of targeting computers.
A station would have a certain production capacity, and producing each item would require a certain capacity for a certain amount of time, depending on the item.
To limit the hoarding of capacity, if there are more orders then capacity, the capacity will be "fairly cued", depending a bit on standing of the buyers with that station. Every buyer has a priority, and the stations own production (to resupply their own stock of vultures) has a priority, and all production is scheduled fairly.
Users should be able to sell everything to stations and to other users, including ships! But if a serco sells a prom to an Itani, there should be a chance that they are found out, and that would cost the serco a load of standing. (ways to keep people from doing that all the time, and just botting their standing back up are in another thread)
I think a station should be able to have stocks of everything. If you want something, for instance a Vulture MkII, you either buy it from the station stock (if they have it in stock) or you let them make one (if they can)
If you let 'em make one, the process requires some "ingredients". Those ingredients can either come out of the station stock (you buy it from the station), or your own stock at that station (or you have the station make 'em if they can and if the ingredients are available)
Prices of items at stations offcourse depend on the current stock. A station might allways try to have 100 Vultures MkII in stock, and be able to produce 25 Vultures MkII per day. If demand is high, it might run low on Vultures MkII, so prices go up.
Producing a Vultures requires (amoung others) a targeting computer. If the station has no targeting computers, and can't make targeting computers, they can't make Vultures, driving up the price of targeting computers.
A station would have a certain production capacity, and producing each item would require a certain capacity for a certain amount of time, depending on the item.
To limit the hoarding of capacity, if there are more orders then capacity, the capacity will be "fairly cued", depending a bit on standing of the buyers with that station. Every buyer has a priority, and the stations own production (to resupply their own stock of vultures) has a priority, and all production is scheduled fairly.
Users should be able to sell everything to stations and to other users, including ships! But if a serco sells a prom to an Itani, there should be a chance that they are found out, and that would cost the serco a load of standing. (ways to keep people from doing that all the time, and just botting their standing back up are in another thread)
CP, I really agree that we need a certain amount of production time and your views on balance. as far as I can see, it's the only sane way to long term implement crafting. but, we should also be able to sell items between players, so not *everyone* would have to do build-to-order every now and then. I see no big reason why someone should have to produce their own weapons all the time, as both other players and certain types of stations themselves produce weapons as a source of income, right?
also, I'm a bit uncertain if I'd like to see crafting become a set of skills for characters. right now VO is "player skill based" for combat, taking this to crafting will mean that any alternate character someone creates starts out with 100% of the knowledge that your (or your guild) have accumulated. requireing licenses to create the weapons is a start -- and maybe have faction limitations as to what you're allowed to resell where? ie, you can't create a hyper-duper-positron blaster and resell in a station unless both you and your buyer are both above a certain level? (yes, this also means fixing the faction system and making it so trade isn't the only way to gain faction, but that's implicit in the whole argument, this *will* be fixed. :-))
aaaand, I'm going to say the scary word of flame. balance. there are a few things one has to make sure of, the cheap weapons need to be usable. they need a purpose. right now, a *lot* of people have saved up enough credits to *always* get the good stuff. I would *really* like to see as many variations of the weapons as possible be usable. the most obvious way of starting to ensure this would be to use todays weaponry as a baseline, and having any boost to the weapons effect (refire rate, possible ammo, possible drain, damage, etc) mean increased mass. lowering the mass would lead to lower stats as well. also, make sure people can't create a weapon where you play min / max to the extreme. lower refire rate and increase drain and lower damage to get an AAP that weighs 350kgs, does 500 damage but suddely fires at 350m/s and so on. this balance game will be a *very* scary prospect. I'd *highly* suggest implementing this on a test server for a while and having people poke at it.
the above goes for ships as well, an L-port Valk? sure, imagine removing two S-ports, converting one S-port to an L-port and even fitting a standard AGT. your Valk now weighs 4400 / 4500 kgs and has AGT autoaim and refire. now, do this to the IBG... :-)
yes, it's an amazingly cool idea, but it will need a lot of hammering to get to a point where we just don't see certain extreme combinations. one possible hope to this is that the complexity will be vast enough that we'll *always* find some counter to any "extreme" ship / weapon combination.
also, I'm a bit uncertain if I'd like to see crafting become a set of skills for characters. right now VO is "player skill based" for combat, taking this to crafting will mean that any alternate character someone creates starts out with 100% of the knowledge that your (or your guild) have accumulated. requireing licenses to create the weapons is a start -- and maybe have faction limitations as to what you're allowed to resell where? ie, you can't create a hyper-duper-positron blaster and resell in a station unless both you and your buyer are both above a certain level? (yes, this also means fixing the faction system and making it so trade isn't the only way to gain faction, but that's implicit in the whole argument, this *will* be fixed. :-))
aaaand, I'm going to say the scary word of flame. balance. there are a few things one has to make sure of, the cheap weapons need to be usable. they need a purpose. right now, a *lot* of people have saved up enough credits to *always* get the good stuff. I would *really* like to see as many variations of the weapons as possible be usable. the most obvious way of starting to ensure this would be to use todays weaponry as a baseline, and having any boost to the weapons effect (refire rate, possible ammo, possible drain, damage, etc) mean increased mass. lowering the mass would lead to lower stats as well. also, make sure people can't create a weapon where you play min / max to the extreme. lower refire rate and increase drain and lower damage to get an AAP that weighs 350kgs, does 500 damage but suddely fires at 350m/s and so on. this balance game will be a *very* scary prospect. I'd *highly* suggest implementing this on a test server for a while and having people poke at it.
the above goes for ships as well, an L-port Valk? sure, imagine removing two S-ports, converting one S-port to an L-port and even fitting a standard AGT. your Valk now weighs 4400 / 4500 kgs and has AGT autoaim and refire. now, do this to the IBG... :-)
yes, it's an amazingly cool idea, but it will need a lot of hammering to get to a point where we just don't see certain extreme combinations. one possible hope to this is that the complexity will be vast enough that we'll *always* find some counter to any "extreme" ship / weapon combination.
Spell said: ...crafting in vendetta probably is somewhat more difficult to make skill based than in a game set in ancient egypt - we arent making shovels after all, we're talking about major manufacturing, probably computer run assemply lines.
True but the concept would be the same. Have at least a bit of real human skill to make items. That would create people ingame who, say, could make a GREAT Behemoth ship frame (that had extra armor and perhaps varied ports), but perhaps could not make a nice Vulture frame. Or they could make great swarms but they just could never get the hang of making phase blasters. My goal would be to create players known for their crafting ability in much the same way that other players are known for their PvP ability.
Since the beginning of time, all crafting has required skill. Whether it is hammering out a shovel, or rolling a Neutron Blaster Mk. III core on some kind of laser-lathe, craftsmanship matters. I'd like to re-state my STRONG desire that crafting not be purely "gather X items, put items through y device, get z super-cool item. Repeat."
terjekv said: ...right now VO is "player skill based" for combat, taking this to crafting will mean that any alternate character someone creates starts out with 100% of the knowledge that you (or your guild) have accumulated.
So? How and why would that matter? The players who were in [IA] could have easily copied down all information from the guild, quit a week later, and used it for their purposes. (And some undoubtedly have.) I can start a new character and I retain all the PvP knowledge (haha) and universe-geography knowledge that I have as LeberMac. Is that bad? If so, there's no way to prevent it.
I agree that there needs to be some limits on what items you can obtain and when, but to make the truly "super" items, some skill should be involved. Otherwise the guilds will quickly obtain every single item that it is possible to get and we'll be back to square one - there's no new items, people clamoring for new things. You should have to have high levels AND "real people" high crafting skills in order to make the most desired items.
Not everyone will have the skill to create these items, just as not everyone has the skills to be great at PvP. Thus, scarcity develops on its own, and the economy becomes realistic.
My goal should be transparent. I want some players to evolve into "scientists" or "engineers" in the same way as others evolve into warriors. The human player's capability to be a good "engineer" should be similar to, but different from, becoming a great PvP fighter. How to do this in a game setting? Dunno.
What's a warrior without a blacksmith to back him up?
True but the concept would be the same. Have at least a bit of real human skill to make items. That would create people ingame who, say, could make a GREAT Behemoth ship frame (that had extra armor and perhaps varied ports), but perhaps could not make a nice Vulture frame. Or they could make great swarms but they just could never get the hang of making phase blasters. My goal would be to create players known for their crafting ability in much the same way that other players are known for their PvP ability.
Since the beginning of time, all crafting has required skill. Whether it is hammering out a shovel, or rolling a Neutron Blaster Mk. III core on some kind of laser-lathe, craftsmanship matters. I'd like to re-state my STRONG desire that crafting not be purely "gather X items, put items through y device, get z super-cool item. Repeat."
terjekv said: ...right now VO is "player skill based" for combat, taking this to crafting will mean that any alternate character someone creates starts out with 100% of the knowledge that you (or your guild) have accumulated.
So? How and why would that matter? The players who were in [IA] could have easily copied down all information from the guild, quit a week later, and used it for their purposes. (And some undoubtedly have.) I can start a new character and I retain all the PvP knowledge (haha) and universe-geography knowledge that I have as LeberMac. Is that bad? If so, there's no way to prevent it.
I agree that there needs to be some limits on what items you can obtain and when, but to make the truly "super" items, some skill should be involved. Otherwise the guilds will quickly obtain every single item that it is possible to get and we'll be back to square one - there's no new items, people clamoring for new things. You should have to have high levels AND "real people" high crafting skills in order to make the most desired items.
Not everyone will have the skill to create these items, just as not everyone has the skills to be great at PvP. Thus, scarcity develops on its own, and the economy becomes realistic.
My goal should be transparent. I want some players to evolve into "scientists" or "engineers" in the same way as others evolve into warriors. The human player's capability to be a good "engineer" should be similar to, but different from, becoming a great PvP fighter. How to do this in a game setting? Dunno.
What's a warrior without a blacksmith to back him up?
LeberMac... perhaps you could be more specific. How exactly would one make crafting dependant on player skill? (I assume you're not talking about twitch skills?)
I don't think crafting should be at all based on who is the best at playing <x> mini game. I think when it comes to non-combat activities like crafting, management strategy over twitch skill is far more interesting... i.e. do I allocate more resources to crafting phase blasters or vultures? Which is in higher demand? What will I use the profits for? Should I pay people to clear out that sector of valuable ore so I can make higher end widgets or play it safe in the lower end market? What about signing a trade agreement for <x> amount of ion cores to be delivered here each week?
I don't think crafting should be at all based on who is the best at playing <x> mini game. I think when it comes to non-combat activities like crafting, management strategy over twitch skill is far more interesting... i.e. do I allocate more resources to crafting phase blasters or vultures? Which is in higher demand? What will I use the profits for? Should I pay people to clear out that sector of valuable ore so I can make higher end widgets or play it safe in the lower end market? What about signing a trade agreement for <x> amount of ion cores to be delivered here each week?
Items that VO has now should stay available as "basic" items that you can buy with the required license levels and amount of credits.
Player-created items have the capability to be either worse or far far better than the basic items.
For example, let's take batteries.
Standard FC Batt holds 250 charge. You can be lazy and purchase the commodity item FC Batt, or you can try to create your own. Creating your own takes a couple of devices that must be extant in the station you are working in: (I'm just making names up here)
a) An "Acid Extractor Tub"
b) A "Component Fabricator"
c) A "Subspace Welder"
You'd need to gather 10 cu's of apicene ore and put them in the Acid extractor. This takes real in-game time to extract acid, so you can leave and go do whatever else while your "Acid Extractor Tub" gets the acid out of the apicene. Maybe like 5 minutes?
Then you're left with, say, 2 cu's of battery acid.
Obtain 3 cu's of Plasteel, 2 cu's of Nickel, 2 cu's of Cadmium. Combine them with the 2 cu's of battery acid in the "Component Fabricator" and you are left with 1 cu of "Unwelded Battery"
Here's where the "twitch" skills come in, Spell: Take the 1 cu of "Unwelded Battery" to the subspace welder. (This is the tough part for the devs) The subspace welder is a new interface that you can only see in-station. Basically it asks you to draw a slow, accurate welding bead down the seams of the battery. Freehand, with your computer mouse, in realtime. Go too fast and your weld will suck and the battery won't work. Go too slow and too much weld builds up and your battery is say, extra-heavy. Do it just right and your battery is really good, holds a 400 charge and recharges at 20 per sec. (Or whatever) Simple batteries would have only straight lines. The most "uber" batteries would have curves and angles to follow that makes creating them difficult.
That's what I am talking about when I mean that crafting should take real-world skills.
There should be some mystery as to what goes into a battery as well. What if you used Platinum instead of nickel? What if you used 4 cu's of nickel and 4 cu's of cadmium - would you get a heavy batt? What happens when you add xithricite? Do you get a super-batt? Or does xithricite ruin the battery? Who knows? Formulas for making weapons and items would become closely-guarded guild secrets, adding more complexity into the game.
This kind of system (I admit it is a DIRECT ripoff from "A Tale in the Desert") is interesting to players, makes crafting skill-based, encourages discovery and experimentation, and may result in an "UBER" battery eventually, which means that players will start to CARE about losing ships. (Awww MAN! Shape killed me in my moth with the special uber batt! Now I gotta go make a NEW one...)
I'd REALLY like to hear dev comments on this one.
Player-created items have the capability to be either worse or far far better than the basic items.
For example, let's take batteries.
Standard FC Batt holds 250 charge. You can be lazy and purchase the commodity item FC Batt, or you can try to create your own. Creating your own takes a couple of devices that must be extant in the station you are working in: (I'm just making names up here)
a) An "Acid Extractor Tub"
b) A "Component Fabricator"
c) A "Subspace Welder"
You'd need to gather 10 cu's of apicene ore and put them in the Acid extractor. This takes real in-game time to extract acid, so you can leave and go do whatever else while your "Acid Extractor Tub" gets the acid out of the apicene. Maybe like 5 minutes?
Then you're left with, say, 2 cu's of battery acid.
Obtain 3 cu's of Plasteel, 2 cu's of Nickel, 2 cu's of Cadmium. Combine them with the 2 cu's of battery acid in the "Component Fabricator" and you are left with 1 cu of "Unwelded Battery"
Here's where the "twitch" skills come in, Spell: Take the 1 cu of "Unwelded Battery" to the subspace welder. (This is the tough part for the devs) The subspace welder is a new interface that you can only see in-station. Basically it asks you to draw a slow, accurate welding bead down the seams of the battery. Freehand, with your computer mouse, in realtime. Go too fast and your weld will suck and the battery won't work. Go too slow and too much weld builds up and your battery is say, extra-heavy. Do it just right and your battery is really good, holds a 400 charge and recharges at 20 per sec. (Or whatever) Simple batteries would have only straight lines. The most "uber" batteries would have curves and angles to follow that makes creating them difficult.
That's what I am talking about when I mean that crafting should take real-world skills.
There should be some mystery as to what goes into a battery as well. What if you used Platinum instead of nickel? What if you used 4 cu's of nickel and 4 cu's of cadmium - would you get a heavy batt? What happens when you add xithricite? Do you get a super-batt? Or does xithricite ruin the battery? Who knows? Formulas for making weapons and items would become closely-guarded guild secrets, adding more complexity into the game.
This kind of system (I admit it is a DIRECT ripoff from "A Tale in the Desert") is interesting to players, makes crafting skill-based, encourages discovery and experimentation, and may result in an "UBER" battery eventually, which means that players will start to CARE about losing ships. (Awww MAN! Shape killed me in my moth with the special uber batt! Now I gotta go make a NEW one...)
I'd REALLY like to hear dev comments on this one.
Hmmmm, interesting idea, but I'd have to disagree. I don't think twitch skills should play any part in crafting and here's why:
Eventually I see crafting as being an essential part of player-owned stations... resources are gathered which are then used to create goods which are sold on the market to help sustain the station.
Let's say I'm part of a guild that owns a station and I want to manufacture 100 vultures to be sold. I don't want to sit there and try to draw 100 perfect circles or what have you... I want to make an executive decision to dedicate the station's resources to creating 100 vultures. Perhaps there is a market for these vultures and my gamble pays off, perhaps not and the station loses money in the long run... these types of management issues I think are far more interesting. The actual "crafting" process itself would be automatic and take a certain amount of time and widgets... the player would be responsible for directing the station's crafting resources.
So, my basic thesis is that crafting itself doesn't have to be a complex process... but it should be part of a long term investment that can either grow or decay based on player decisions.
Think SimCity or X-Com. Crafting is just a small part of a much larger picture.
Eventually I see crafting as being an essential part of player-owned stations... resources are gathered which are then used to create goods which are sold on the market to help sustain the station.
Let's say I'm part of a guild that owns a station and I want to manufacture 100 vultures to be sold. I don't want to sit there and try to draw 100 perfect circles or what have you... I want to make an executive decision to dedicate the station's resources to creating 100 vultures. Perhaps there is a market for these vultures and my gamble pays off, perhaps not and the station loses money in the long run... these types of management issues I think are far more interesting. The actual "crafting" process itself would be automatic and take a certain amount of time and widgets... the player would be responsible for directing the station's crafting resources.
So, my basic thesis is that crafting itself doesn't have to be a complex process... but it should be part of a long term investment that can either grow or decay based on player decisions.
Think SimCity or X-Com. Crafting is just a small part of a much larger picture.
I strongly yet politely disagree with you Phaser. I like Vendetta because of the twitch combat, not the dice rolls and turn-based combat. I'd like to have a crafting system which incorporates the same kind of "twitch-based" real-time skill sets.
When certain players get good at making these items, the economy comes into play.
Their skills are in demand. Their items can fetch a high price on the open market. The scarcity of their items creates higher demand.
So, "Borb's Battery Bazaar" could open in Sedina D-14, and 'ol Borby could come back and be a battery merchant instead of a mercenary. That is, if he can weld halfway decently. He could probably get 1 million credits for a Fast Charge battery that had 600 capacity.
Well, that is, until "LeberMac's Lo-Price Battery Lounge" opens up in Latos N-2 and starts competing with him...
(Which leads to a shooting war on the material suppliers of both battery retailers, but that's another topic)
Eventually both battery retailers settle on two different items, and prices stabillize due to normal market free-trade economics. Borb makes light, lower capacity, fast recharge batteries. LeberMac makes heavy, high capacity, slower recharge batteries. The market segments and everyone is happy. Except for Borb because I'm still better looking than him. >:P
Both stations become known for their respective Battery supplies, and players seek them out for their unique wares.
Aaahhhh, Capitalism!
When certain players get good at making these items, the economy comes into play.
Their skills are in demand. Their items can fetch a high price on the open market. The scarcity of their items creates higher demand.
So, "Borb's Battery Bazaar" could open in Sedina D-14, and 'ol Borby could come back and be a battery merchant instead of a mercenary. That is, if he can weld halfway decently. He could probably get 1 million credits for a Fast Charge battery that had 600 capacity.
Well, that is, until "LeberMac's Lo-Price Battery Lounge" opens up in Latos N-2 and starts competing with him...
(Which leads to a shooting war on the material suppliers of both battery retailers, but that's another topic)
Eventually both battery retailers settle on two different items, and prices stabillize due to normal market free-trade economics. Borb makes light, lower capacity, fast recharge batteries. LeberMac makes heavy, high capacity, slower recharge batteries. The market segments and everyone is happy. Except for Borb because I'm still better looking than him. >:P
Both stations become known for their respective Battery supplies, and players seek them out for their unique wares.
Aaahhhh, Capitalism!
As a caveat, I'd like to suggest that once you have made "X" number of items, you could set the station to automatically churn out those items easily.
For example, 'ol Borby of "Borb's Battery Bazaar" makes 50 batteries of 500 charge and 10/s recharge, doing them the hard way by welding the beads manually. He probably ruins 200 batteries attempting to reach the threshhold, but he finally makes it. After reaching that plateau of 50, it is assumed that he could crank these babies out at will and then he can automatically just load the materials and click "make battery" like you say, Phaser.
For example, 'ol Borby of "Borb's Battery Bazaar" makes 50 batteries of 500 charge and 10/s recharge, doing them the hard way by welding the beads manually. He probably ruins 200 batteries attempting to reach the threshhold, but he finally makes it. After reaching that plateau of 50, it is assumed that he could crank these babies out at will and then he can automatically just load the materials and click "make battery" like you say, Phaser.