Forums » Suggestions

On Deneb: start a real war

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Jul 08, 2010 davejohn link
Much of this has been posted before, so this is a sort of summary suggestion.

Firstly, move the itani stations out of deneb . O 3 goes to the other side of the wh, the other two get parked in eo or cantus.

Secondly, make all of deneb unmonitored /unaligned . Make it grey if possible, if not , well long term. Throw in some conquerable stations if you like , make them nasty , razable , that sort of thing.

Thirdly, increase the BS spawn rate. Add weps xp as well as combat xp for BS kills. Do something with the data : clearly it is being recorded, introduce a military rank structure for players who join the military. Hand out ribbons and medals and the like .

Fourthly, fix or remove BP . Ideally I'd like to see a couple or more BP missions in other sectors ( without forming a group of 1 first )

No. five, Have a look at capship ai . Ok , it was a first go at it all, but it really is very frustrating as it stands.

Sixthly, make it count . Have records, tables, graphs even . Weekly, monthly, yearly . Something to make deneb count , something to make players come back and shoot each other in there on a regular basis.

Seventh, if possible make damage done to the enemy in BS count. Frustrating to take out the majority of capship and get zero credit for it.

Eighth , why are there only four xith roids in deneb ? Ok , Ignore that one ...

Anyway , lots to start on there , you get the idea. Give a long term focus to fighting over a real area of space. get vets back in game toting guns. Most of us have relatives all ready to get in there and stir things up a bit : all we need is a reason to do so ...
Jul 08, 2010 Death Fluffy link
+1 to all.

I gave up Deneb because 90% of the time I played there I may as well of been hunting hive or some other solo activity.

iirc, there was some talk a while back about giving high ranking members of the military some control over cap ship behavior.
Jul 08, 2010 ryan reign link
I agree with all of this, except removing BP. As it stands BP is one of the best ways for newbs to gain xp quickly while at the same time getting a feel for combat and testing out different weapon combos/fighting styles. I didn't realize it needed fixing, what specifically is broken?

As for the stations, I don't know how I feel about removing them. Ever since my first battle in Deneb, I felt the Serco should have some stations there. This opinion has only been strengthened since the inception of Border Skirmish missions... if for no other reason than the Itani have one jump to the battles where as Serco have two to three jumps, time wise its not a whole lot but, in terms of what can happen while you're flying to rejoin the battle, it can be enormous. I'd be all for adding an equal amount of Serco stations. The Serco get one half of the system the Itani the other. It'd be great if the stations were also conquerable. It would give a sense of accomplishment or loss to the whole thing. I'd even suggest having battles right in the station sectors.

Lastly... + one million to the "Frustrating to take out the majority of capship and get zero credit for it." part. I've lost count of how many cappies I and my friends have taken out.

A. Both nations ought to have a set number of cappies which naturally, decreases every time one is destroyed.
and...
B. It is beyond ridiculous that when some one takes out a cappie it is only worth 200 xp same as a fighter. Increase the xp of cappies significantly. Please.
Jul 08, 2010 diqrtvpe link
Yes. Dear sweet Jesus yes.
Jul 08, 2010 endercp12 link
its also rather insane that when a group of people take out the cap ships... only one person gets the measly 200xp... and usually its a goddamn bot that doesnt help for crap until the final shot...

As far as tables and such for "accomplishments" (which have been sought after for some time) how about making joining the military ya know...WORTH something... like say... proms and valks require military "rank" which can be gained through participating in CtC/BS that way we get rid of the uber annoying smurfs flying proms and toasters in valks... it also means that UIT players get to choose one or the other.. That way a player from each nation can get access to UIT OR their native unique ships.. thats half of the idiocy of the faction system solved right there.
Jul 08, 2010 BlackSands link
Re: Capship AI

I think my recent suggestion might fix a lot of their stupidity:

http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23515

No one has responded though, so it's possible that I'm just taking crazy pills.

Basically, I'd like to consolidate the turrets into batteries located at different points on the ship, and then have those batteries coordinated as single weapons, firing spreads at their targets, rather than each turret firing randomly at whatever they can see.

The AI can then turn the ship to bring the batteries in range.
Jul 09, 2010 iry link
A few more things to add...

Instead of a steady (slow) trickle of ships spawning have ships spawn in waves as milestones are reached so it feels like reinforcements are arriving rather than additional cannon fodder.

Have tridents be more than large targets / canon fodder by making them arrive with a wave of bombers and also increase the spawn rate / the ratio of bombers in the BS fleet while the trident(s) are present.

Change the loadouts on the NPC bombers to only a single weapon that requires energy. When the NPC bombers are equipped with both a neutron blaster and screamers, very few of the screamers are actually fired due to the NPC constantly draining all its energy on the blaster.

Lastly, even though the capships dont proritize missiles yet could a less spammy damage equivalent to the chaos swarm / gemini missile spam combo for anti cap ship purposes be put in game?

EX
10 Grid
2600 Kg
5 missiles
12,000 damage per missile
80m/s
3 second rof
25 second flight time
5m proximity radius
10m splash radius
Jul 09, 2010 pirren link
Firstly, move the itani stations out of deneb . O 3 goes to the other side of the wh, the other two get parked in eo or cantus.

Difficult choice, because by RP Serco try to conquer Deneb ;) But +1, balance and front line ftw.

Secondly, make all of deneb unmonitored /unaligned. Make it grey if possible, if not , well long term.

Unmonitored - yes, unaligned - no. It is still Itani system, and deneb O-12 is already unmonitored ;)

Throw in some conquerable stations if you like , make them nasty , razable , that sort of thing.

Definitely +1

Fourthly, fix or remove BP .

-1

Ideally I'd like to see a couple or more BP missions in other sectors ( without forming a group of 1 first )

+1

No. five, Have a look at capship ai . Ok , it was a first go at it all, but it really is very frustrating as it stands.

-1, think with your head, not with NPC's. You want capship do all work for you?

Sixthly, make it count . Have records, tables, graphs even . Weekly, monthly, yearly . Something to make deneb count , something to make players come back and shoot each other in there on a regular basis.

+1

Seventh, if possible make damage done to the enemy in BS count. Frustrating to take out the majority of capship and get zero credit for it.

+1 for damage done to capship.

Eighth , why are there only four xith roids in deneb ? Ok , Ignore that one ...

+1, Deneb should be one of the mineral richest systems in VO. Atm, it's faster, safer and more profitable to mine in GR/Bethesdee for Serco (don't mine in EO, so can't judge Itani situation)
Jul 09, 2010 tarenty link
"-1, think with your head, not with NPC's. You want capship do all work for you?"

Pirren, when was the last time you were in Deneb? Think before you post, it makes you appear very stupid when you don't.
Examples of cappie behavior:

1: Escort cappies hitting and sticking to roids.

2: Capships in Deneb ramming each other.

3: Capships in Deneb floating off into space.

I could name more, but don't have the time for it now. Capship AI needs to be fixed. We don't want the cappies to do the work for us, but we _do_ want cappies to act as they are meant to.

+1 to iry's missile.
+(very large number _here_) to endercp12's idea about valks and proms.
+bunches to the OP.
Jul 09, 2010 pirren link
Looks like you were in Deneb long way ago, because I do BS pretty often.

1: Escort cappies hitting and sticking to roids.

That's a problem of convoy, not Deneb.

2: Capships in Deneb ramming each other.

That's not because of AI, but because of lack of capship maneuverability. I bet if you will pilot these cappies, effect will be the same as with AI.

3: Capships in Deneb floating off into space.

So what, can't you track WHITE dots on your radar (cappies are almost always members of group), or did someone disallowed zoom usage? (i) key by default.

Uhm, you want cappies to do your job. Shoot enemy ones. Yes?
Jul 09, 2010 slime73 link
HACs and Connies need to broadside enemy capships.
Jul 09, 2010 Alloh link
Most things here would add to now boring war. My favourites few:

Stations: Add only ONE to serco WH sector B12. Later make all them conquerable to a nation, instead of ppl-owned.

Capships: Add some real big CAPITOL ships. Tridents are at most Frigates, bring in some heavier ships, a few as big and hard to destroy as a Leviathan. Teamwork required.

Military: Must have ranking and provide only way to grab military ships (Prom/Valk)!

No to grayspace Deneb. War is for territory.

Make periodic BIG event there, like attacking one enemy capitol ship, or station, or try to invade enemy's border WH.
Jul 09, 2010 incarnate link
Capships: Add some real big CAPITOL ships. Tridents are at most Frigates, bring in some heavier ships, a few as big and hard to destroy as a Leviathan. Teamwork required.

..what? "Large" deneb battles involve all the capships, including HACs. Those are larger than most of our stations. We will continue to have a "spread" of battle sizes available, to offer content to those who have more serious gaming hardware, as well as those who do not (particularly for mobile). If we need more Large battles, or some such, let me know.

* * *

Anyway, cool, please keep the input coming on this thread. The improvements to this area are very much on my radar. I've been hitting the lower-level stuff lately (started a new character today, actually), but the BS/BP/CtC/Dynamic Station and War Convoy stuff is next on my list. Fixing, improving, tweaking, and connecting.

I have some years of design on military rank structures and other progressions, but areas that are more specific to gameplay feedback (capship AI problems, enemies not replenished fast enough, whatever) is of tremendous value to me. So please, keep it up.
Jul 09, 2010 pirren link
Stations: Add only ONE to serco WH sector B12. Later make all them conquerable to a nation, instead of ppl-owned.

-1, Serco already have station at GR O-4.

I think conquerable station will save the day.

Certainly there could be some exploits. For example: take Border skirmish mission and die in station conquest. You will have free ship (e.g. Rag mk3) if "buy back last ship".
Jul 10, 2010 tarenty link
Ahm, Pirren, capital ships ramming eachother is NOT a problem with maneuverability, as most of the time they are way too far apart to maneuver into eachother.

Escort cappies/Deneb cappies. Similarities in AI.

So what, you say? If the serco and itani cappies are 10km away, it gets annoying.

What else are they there for, other than resupply? Of course I don't want the cappies to completely destroy eachother, but if they were to at least shoot eachother instead of sit there....
Jul 12, 2010 Alloh link
@Inc: If we need more Large battles, or some such, let me know.

Not really larger battles, but some larger ships.
I come from FreeSpace2 background. I'm used to HUGE capitol ships, kilometers long, like the Colossus. So I wish to see the Serco build their Yamato, and use it as a mobile station or Fleet Flagship, while Itani periodically tries to destroy it in scheduled events! Until Itani build their juggernaut! Those are unique ships, not produced in series.

Some more semi-random ideas:

1) Create a mission to ressupply front lines. Good pay, must go sector X, find capship C and deliver N crates of (Gun,Ammo). Daring Logistics can be fun!

2) Reinforcements really should be in waves, as proposed. Do not send one single ship. Makes more sense from a military perspective, and would make more clear the pace of battle.

3) Add some coordination comms from local capship to players. Simple orders like "Here comes reinforcements", "All fighters engage ship X" or "We're under attack, cover us now!"

4) Add a simple, basic ranking system ASAP. Like, a pilot starts as Ensign when join military, and can raise to Lieutenant, Commander and Captain only. Simple. Higher ranks are reserved for multi-ship forces, not available to players. Promotions given for completed border missions. As now, nothing else results but adding a prefix to player's name (ENS,LT,CDR,CAPT).

5) Add some specific missions for groups of players, like attack a major cappie, enemy's station or blockade wormhole.

6) Add military training missions. Like attack capships and stations, impose blockade, formation flight, so on.
Jul 12, 2010 tarenty link
Some rank reqs and rewards ideas:

Ensign: Requirement: Complete a Fighter Skirmish and Small Skirmish successfully. Rewards: All ships/addons are 5% cheaper at your nation's Barracks stations.

Lieutenant: Requirement: Must be an Ensign, complete a Medium Border Skirmish successfully and complete a total of 5 border skirmishes successfully. Rewards: Itani Defence Force Valkyrie Vigilant/Serco SkyCommand Prometheus access.

Lietenant Commander: Requirement: Must be a Lietenant, complete a total of 10 border skirmishes successfully and destroy a total of 50 of the opposite nation's ships in Border Patrol and Border Skirmishes. Rewards: IDV Valkyrie Vigilant/SkyCommander Prometheus are 5% cheaper anywhere.

Commander: Requirement: Must be a Lietenant Commander, complete a Large Border Skirmish successfully, destroy 100 ships of the opposite nation in Border Patrol and Border Skirmishes, and complete a total of 20 border skirmishes successfully.Rewards: Instant 250,000c (or once you take a mission that contains the promotion);+10% credits after each border skirmish won.

*Captain: Requirement: Must be a Commander, complete a Border Battle successfully, destroy 500 ships of the opposite nation in Border Patrol and Border Skirmishes, and complete a total of 50 border skirmishes successfully. Rewards: Instant +10,000 combat xp and 1,000,000c (or mission about promotions);+10% combat xp in Border Skirmishes, for kills and completion(and weapons, if it is added);+5% rewards for completed Border Patrol missions.

**Admiral: Requirement: Must be a Captain, Complete a total of 100 border skirmishes successfully, destroy 1,000 of the opposite nation's ships in Border Patrol and Border Skirmishes. Reward: Basic control of Tridents in any border skirmish (except fighter, of course) through PM commands (Stop | Go | Target "*SMV Example" | TurnR | TurnL | TurnU | TurnD), and access to Ultra Charge Powercells at Itani/Serco stations (whichever nation you are/are fighting for [in the case of UITs]).

*= Available fighter wingman with simple controls.

**= Available fighter escort (3 ships) with simple controls.

Feel free to comment on them, and if other missions in Deneb were added such as Alloh's ideas (+1, btw) I'll redo this.

EDIT: I think there should be a mission that promotes you.
Jul 12, 2010 Alloh link
For Ensign, only requirement should be join military. Once you joined, since you are already have your wings (brevet) you enter with the lowest officer ranks.

So move all reqs one rank above, like lieutenants gets discounts at barracks.

And this is a great idea, military should have easier access to weapons at their own barracks. And if possible, make discount visible, like a log message on each purchase:
Regular price: 100c ; You pay [Rank] price: 85c.

For promotion missions, I don't see a need for that. Simply next time you dock/respawn after achieve reqs it becomes a text-only simple mission. Maybe only for captain rank, you should go to a Sol2/Itan capitol in order to receive it from our president/senate/whatever.
Jul 12, 2010 Chaosis link
"Lieutenant: Requirement: Must be an Ensign, complete a Medium Border Skirmish successfully and complete a total of 5 border skirmishes successfully. Rewards: Valkyrie X-1/Serco SkyCommand Prometheus access."

Lolwut, doesn't the X-1 have its own mission req already?
Jul 12, 2010 Alloh link
Chaosis have a point.

So, make being Lieutenant unlocks basic (mk.1) Valk/Prom. And leave X-1/SkyCmd as they are now. Also, as consequence, remove other reqs for basic Valk/Prom only for military personnel.

So, as now, things remains as is for Valks/Proms, except for military officers, who have lower requirements and prices!

In the future, restrict military ships/weapons to military personnel... what magically prevent smurfs from flying proms and serco from piloting valks, and no one will fly both!