Forums » Suggestions
Capitol Flechette Turret...
Stats
Damage: 500
Velocity: 100
Range: 50-100
15/blast
Delay: 0.090 s
Mass: 2400 kg
Targeting: Good
License: 10/13/12
Could be a crafted weapon.
Requirements:
4 Flechette Cannons
1 Advanced Targeting System
5 Consumer Electronics
2 Gyroscopes
20 XiRite Alloy
1 Xang Xi Advanced Robotics (assuming you have the option of AI targeting)
So basically the finished "Anti ordinance capital weapon" is four flechettes, stacked two by two with about two meters space between would produce an "area of affect" firing pattern that would be roughly 10 meters by 10 meters which is easily enough to take out incoming rockets and missiles.
Stats
Damage: 500
Velocity: 100
Range: 50-100
15/blast
Delay: 0.090 s
Mass: 2400 kg
Targeting: Good
License: 10/13/12
Could be a crafted weapon.
Requirements:
4 Flechette Cannons
1 Advanced Targeting System
5 Consumer Electronics
2 Gyroscopes
20 XiRite Alloy
1 Xang Xi Advanced Robotics (assuming you have the option of AI targeting)
So basically the finished "Anti ordinance capital weapon" is four flechettes, stacked two by two with about two meters space between would produce an "area of affect" firing pattern that would be roughly 10 meters by 10 meters which is easily enough to take out incoming rockets and missiles.
+1
Still some questions:
What's the fire range?
Velocity: 100
uhm, 200?
Still some questions:
What's the fire range?
Velocity: 100
uhm, 200?
"What's the fire range?"
Very short, so short that you would still take splash damage.
"Velocity: 100"
Yes.
"uhm, 200?"
No, the Idea is that your shooting at something being fired at you... it doesn't have to fire fast or far.
Very short, so short that you would still take splash damage.
"Velocity: 100"
Yes.
"uhm, 200?"
No, the Idea is that your shooting at something being fired at you... it doesn't have to fire fast or far.
So... basically a shield turret that makes popcorn sounds?
I still prefer to see FLARES instead of popcorns, with the change that the ordnance allways explode at maximum reach, like 500...900m.
And it must be effective against small ships and incoming ordnance as missiles and rockets (flares).
Proposed Stats, FLAK turrets (iceflare-based)
Damage 800
Velocity 75
Delay 0.5 (iceflare=1)
Mass 1500 (ice=400)
Port Capital Turret only
Level ? (ice=4/5/2/-/-)
Splash 90 (ice=60)
Detonat. Prox. (30m) AND time/distance fuse (900m)
Ammo 64 (ice=16)
Fuel n/a
AmmoCost 20 (max.
Energy/Grid: To be defined, depending on capships "energy source" being power cells or a reactor.
The distance fuse is to produce the area saturation effect, with 90m blast radius, like this:
And it must be effective against small ships and incoming ordnance as missiles and rockets (flares).
Proposed Stats, FLAK turrets (iceflare-based)
Damage 800
Velocity 75
Delay 0.5 (iceflare=1)
Mass 1500 (ice=400)
Port Capital Turret only
Level ? (ice=4/5/2/-/-)
Splash 90 (ice=60)
Detonat. Prox. (30m) AND time/distance fuse (900m)
Ammo 64 (ice=16)
Fuel n/a
AmmoCost 20 (max.
Energy/Grid: To be defined, depending on capships "energy source" being power cells or a reactor.
The distance fuse is to produce the area saturation effect, with 90m blast radius, like this:
Alloh...
1. Your proposed damage is ludicrous.
2. Your proposed mass is ludicrous.
3. Splash 90 (ice=60) is ludicrous.
4. Post your rubbish ideas in your own threads.
1. Your proposed damage is ludicrous.
2. Your proposed mass is ludicrous.
3. Splash 90 (ice=60) is ludicrous.
4. Post your rubbish ideas in your own threads.
So, let's discuss your proposal:
Damage: 500 > Per shot? shooting each 0.09sec? That is really too much DPS
Velocity: 100 ok
15/blast > Why? Where does this energy come from?
Delay: 0.090 s > So it shoots more rounds per second than an AGT. What about lag?
Mass: 2400 kg ok
Targeting: Good ok
License: 10/13/12 > Why? Who must have it, the owner of cappie or gunner?
For me licenses and energy related stats does not make sense now, since we have no idea on how much energy a Trident have, and no (clearly stated) licenses are required to manufacture one...
Also, what is the RANGE you propose? Popcorns are only effective like 200m... and no bomber will get that close!
And without proximity fuse, how do you expect to hit incoming ordnance, like missiles and flares?
How effective will it be against small ships?
Will is sound like popcorns?
Instead of mounting a flechette/popcorn, why not an AGT? Both have same lag-related limitation due high rate of fire... and none have the FLAK-like area supression done by the blasts...
Damage: 500 > Per shot? shooting each 0.09sec? That is really too much DPS
Velocity: 100 ok
15/blast > Why? Where does this energy come from?
Delay: 0.090 s > So it shoots more rounds per second than an AGT. What about lag?
Mass: 2400 kg ok
Targeting: Good ok
License: 10/13/12 > Why? Who must have it, the owner of cappie or gunner?
For me licenses and energy related stats does not make sense now, since we have no idea on how much energy a Trident have, and no (clearly stated) licenses are required to manufacture one...
Also, what is the RANGE you propose? Popcorns are only effective like 200m... and no bomber will get that close!
And without proximity fuse, how do you expect to hit incoming ordnance, like missiles and flares?
How effective will it be against small ships?
Will is sound like popcorns?
Instead of mounting a flechette/popcorn, why not an AGT? Both have same lag-related limitation due high rate of fire... and none have the FLAK-like area supression done by the blasts...
"Damage: 500 > Per shot? shooting each 0.09sec? That is really too much DPS"
Keep in mind this damage is the result of four Flechettes.
"15/blast > Why? Where does this energy come from?"
Because it needs to draw power from somewhere. Either from a power cell or a reactor, what ever the Trident M uses.
"Delay: 0.090 s > So it shoots more rounds per second than an AGT. What about lag?"
I don't experience lag no matter what situation I'm in when I play. It's nice that the Devs strive to create lag free environments for all but, If I don't experience lag on my ten year old Mac... I'm not especially concerned.
"License: 10/13/12 > Why? Who must have it, the owner of cappie or gunner?"
The owner of the cappie. His ship, his weapons. If a player mans the turret he can still use it,much like a lower level player can still use Swarms an an NPC Trident.
"For me licenses and energy related stats does not make sense now, since we have no idea on how much energy a Trident have, and no (clearly stated) licenses are required to manufacture one..."
It's a safe assumption that cappies would require reasonably high licenses to purchase. It is also a safe assumption that we know that a Trident has some type of energy source.
"Also, what is the RANGE you propose?"
50 to 100.
"Popcorns are only effective like 200m... and no bomber will get that close!"
So what? Of course no bomber will get that close, the idea is to destroy the missiles/rockets/torpedoes (if they are ever added)
"And without proximity fuse, how do you expect to hit incoming ordnance, like missiles and flares?"
Fair question, though I thought the answer was obvious. The rockets or missiles fly towards the Trident... the Trident fires the Capitol Flechette Turret, which as proposed is four Flechettes mounted on a turret with good targeting. So it has good tracking, creates a "spray" of fire and covers a good area (roughly 10x10 meters) rather than a steady stream (like an AGT)
"How effective will it be against small ships?"
Assuming the small ships are within 100 meters of the turret and not moving to fast... they are incredibly effective. In all other circumstances the ANTI ORDINANCE CAPITOL WEAPON, will be as effective as throwing rocks. VO's system of balance seems to be based on trade offs. You want to destroy the fighters/bombers? Equip anti fighter/bomber weapons. You want more defensive systems to keep you alive as a mobile R/R base? Use the ANTI ORDINANCE CAPITOL WEAPON. You want both... equip the ANTI ORDINANCE CAPITOL WEAPON and some offensive weapons.
"Will is sound like popcorns?"
Sure, who cares.
"Instead of mounting a flechette/popcorn, why not an AGT? Both have same lag-related limitation due high rate of fire... and none have the FLAK-like area supression done by the blasts..."
If you actually read/understood the proposal/were more familiar with Flechettes, you would realize that four of them, stacked two by two with about two meters space between would produce an "area of affect" firing pattern that would be roughly 10 meters by 10 meters which is easily enough to take out incoming rockets and missiles.
What it isn't is an "ordinance insta-kill" or anti ship weapon. It could be used as the latter, in a last ditch desperate effort... but it is not meant to be an anti ship weapon. It is balanced in that it is purposed for defence, can be used offensively... but not effectively. As proposed it has all the stats/requirements to be a defensive weapon used for avoiding incoming rockets and missiles. If you want something that is incredibly effective against fighters, bombers, cappies and in coming ordinance... draw up some stats for the Last Star Fighters "Death Blossom".
Keep in mind this damage is the result of four Flechettes.
"15/blast > Why? Where does this energy come from?"
Because it needs to draw power from somewhere. Either from a power cell or a reactor, what ever the Trident M uses.
"Delay: 0.090 s > So it shoots more rounds per second than an AGT. What about lag?"
I don't experience lag no matter what situation I'm in when I play. It's nice that the Devs strive to create lag free environments for all but, If I don't experience lag on my ten year old Mac... I'm not especially concerned.
"License: 10/13/12 > Why? Who must have it, the owner of cappie or gunner?"
The owner of the cappie. His ship, his weapons. If a player mans the turret he can still use it,much like a lower level player can still use Swarms an an NPC Trident.
"For me licenses and energy related stats does not make sense now, since we have no idea on how much energy a Trident have, and no (clearly stated) licenses are required to manufacture one..."
It's a safe assumption that cappies would require reasonably high licenses to purchase. It is also a safe assumption that we know that a Trident has some type of energy source.
"Also, what is the RANGE you propose?"
50 to 100.
"Popcorns are only effective like 200m... and no bomber will get that close!"
So what? Of course no bomber will get that close, the idea is to destroy the missiles/rockets/torpedoes (if they are ever added)
"And without proximity fuse, how do you expect to hit incoming ordnance, like missiles and flares?"
Fair question, though I thought the answer was obvious. The rockets or missiles fly towards the Trident... the Trident fires the Capitol Flechette Turret, which as proposed is four Flechettes mounted on a turret with good targeting. So it has good tracking, creates a "spray" of fire and covers a good area (roughly 10x10 meters) rather than a steady stream (like an AGT)
"How effective will it be against small ships?"
Assuming the small ships are within 100 meters of the turret and not moving to fast... they are incredibly effective. In all other circumstances the ANTI ORDINANCE CAPITOL WEAPON, will be as effective as throwing rocks. VO's system of balance seems to be based on trade offs. You want to destroy the fighters/bombers? Equip anti fighter/bomber weapons. You want more defensive systems to keep you alive as a mobile R/R base? Use the ANTI ORDINANCE CAPITOL WEAPON. You want both... equip the ANTI ORDINANCE CAPITOL WEAPON and some offensive weapons.
"Will is sound like popcorns?"
Sure, who cares.
"Instead of mounting a flechette/popcorn, why not an AGT? Both have same lag-related limitation due high rate of fire... and none have the FLAK-like area supression done by the blasts..."
If you actually read/understood the proposal/were more familiar with Flechettes, you would realize that four of them, stacked two by two with about two meters space between would produce an "area of affect" firing pattern that would be roughly 10 meters by 10 meters which is easily enough to take out incoming rockets and missiles.
What it isn't is an "ordinance insta-kill" or anti ship weapon. It could be used as the latter, in a last ditch desperate effort... but it is not meant to be an anti ship weapon. It is balanced in that it is purposed for defence, can be used offensively... but not effectively. As proposed it has all the stats/requirements to be a defensive weapon used for avoiding incoming rockets and missiles. If you want something that is incredibly effective against fighters, bombers, cappies and in coming ordinance... draw up some stats for the Last Star Fighters "Death Blossom".
Now Ryan's suggestion looks pretty balanced.
Instead of mounting a flechette/popcorn, why not an AGT? Both have same lag-related limitation due high rate of fire
Inc can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the AGT shots and flechette "fire" are fundamentally different for latency purposes. I am shocked, just shocked, that Alloh would mouth off without really having a clue what he's talking about.
Inc can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the AGT shots and flechette "fire" are fundamentally different for latency purposes. I am shocked, just shocked, that Alloh would mouth off without really having a clue what he's talking about.
Both the flechette and the gats suffer from the same "latency" issue (more of a timing problem). Ever wonder why a fastcharge powercell will actually charge while you're firing a flechette mk2 even though the numbers say that shouldn't happen?
+1 to the idea of a rapid scatter-fire turret (flechette, gats, etc) for player controllable ships. The NPC moths have them and they're effective. Don't nerf the velocity though. 200 is fine.
+1 to the idea of a rapid scatter-fire turret (flechette, gats, etc) for player controllable ships. The NPC moths have them and they're effective. Don't nerf the velocity though. 200 is fine.
Well obviously the velocity isn't set in stone. However, the reason I went with 100 as opposed to 200 is that I was taking into account the speed of the missiles and rockets (75mps to 120mps). Also, by keeping the range and velocity lower... it doesn't completely protect the ship. While it will destroy the missiles and rockets, depending on the circumstances it will leave the ship vulnerable to splash damage.
Of course getting hit by splash is mostly a matter of the tridents position, the turrets/gunners skill/speed and the ability of the person piloting the cappie.
Of course getting hit by splash is mostly a matter of the tridents position, the turrets/gunners skill/speed and the ability of the person piloting the cappie.
@RR:
One problem: Autoaim only works for "selected" or "aimed" targets. So it will be useless against incoming ordnance.
That is where the 'flak' ammo makes the difference, due saturation of area.
Also, 100m reach at 100mps is 1sec, or half second if 200mps, is not much time to do any aiming... I fail to see it as effective, even if 4xPopcorn.
Finally, 4xPopcorns are 4x the number of 'bullets', 4x the lag induced... possibly multiplied by two turrets at same side...
-1 for popcorns as turrets
One problem: Autoaim only works for "selected" or "aimed" targets. So it will be useless against incoming ordnance.
That is where the 'flak' ammo makes the difference, due saturation of area.
Also, 100m reach at 100mps is 1sec, or half second if 200mps, is not much time to do any aiming... I fail to see it as effective, even if 4xPopcorn.
Finally, 4xPopcorns are 4x the number of 'bullets', 4x the lag induced... possibly multiplied by two turrets at same side...
-1 for popcorns as turrets
One problem: Autoaim only works for "selected" or "aimed" targets. So it will be useless against incoming ordnance.
Ordinance being able to be targeted is a pretty simple fix, as is evident by the ordinance you can target.
That is where the 'flak' ammo makes the difference, due saturation of area.
given the 10m x10m coverage and given that turrets can move... it makes the "saturation of area" even larger. This does exactly what your saying it doesn't... you just want an anti ordinance/anti ship weapon
Also, 100m reach at 100mps is 1sec, or half second if 200mps, is not much time to do any aiming... I fail to see it as effective, even if 4xPopcorn.
You might of had a point on this one... except that flechettes are capable of sustained fire. If you fail to see how a missile or rocket flying into a 10m x 10m cloud of incoming fire is effective, then I doubt anyone can explain it in simple enough terms for you
Finally, 4xPopcorns are 4x the number of 'bullets', 4x the lag induced... possibly multiplied by two turrets at same side...
Maybe, but if this problem exists... I've never seen it. Not even in skirms where there are dozens to hundreds of flechettes and AGTs, and I generally play on a 10 year old Mac
-1 for popcorns as turrets
You have a right to your opinion, even if your opinion is wrong. Now that you've attempted to make your case, I invite you to go and create a thread for your precious flak rockets
Ordinance being able to be targeted is a pretty simple fix, as is evident by the ordinance you can target.
That is where the 'flak' ammo makes the difference, due saturation of area.
given the 10m x10m coverage and given that turrets can move... it makes the "saturation of area" even larger. This does exactly what your saying it doesn't... you just want an anti ordinance/anti ship weapon
Also, 100m reach at 100mps is 1sec, or half second if 200mps, is not much time to do any aiming... I fail to see it as effective, even if 4xPopcorn.
You might of had a point on this one... except that flechettes are capable of sustained fire. If you fail to see how a missile or rocket flying into a 10m x 10m cloud of incoming fire is effective, then I doubt anyone can explain it in simple enough terms for you
Finally, 4xPopcorns are 4x the number of 'bullets', 4x the lag induced... possibly multiplied by two turrets at same side...
Maybe, but if this problem exists... I've never seen it. Not even in skirms where there are dozens to hundreds of flechettes and AGTs, and I generally play on a 10 year old Mac
-1 for popcorns as turrets
You have a right to your opinion, even if your opinion is wrong. Now that you've attempted to make your case, I invite you to go and create a thread for your precious flak rockets
Alright, bicker bicker bicker... but both of you have valid ideas.
Alloh, i have used quad popcorn setups before and while my connection does seem to randomly blow hardcore, when there isnt a provider based issue, ive had no lag issues using them.
Targetable ordinance has been suggested many times, and frankly should be done.... as that would be the ideal situation to actually equip popcorn on a ship anyway.
While there are no active shields, the popcorn as an anti ordinance is relatively useless (read, with current suggested stats), as its far more efficient to stay in the blind spot of a trident and hammer away with light energy. I'd say give it similar if not the same stats as the currently equipable light popcorn. IRL its akin to the vehicle mounted dual/quad 240b turrets that were in testing while i was in the sandbox. Same weapon that an infantryman would carry, just more of em.
Were there actual shields, and therefor a reason for people to swarm the hell out of a player owned trident, id say reduce the damage to near nothing, as the role of pure missile defence would have more meaning.
otherwise... regardless where i may think its gone a bit awry, its a very good suggestion, and something that with tweaking could be damn nice.
Alloh, as far as flak/artillery turrets/weapons They've been suggested, i think they'd be damn cool, however, your model needs its own thread, and has a few failings as well.
Prox fuzes on the flak rounds are a bit overpowered to make them challenging to use, how about something more along the lines of real flak. give them a blast radius of about half of a flare, 4 guns per turret..and say..they explode 5 (arbitrary number) seconds after launch.
This gives the opponent the chance to get inside the wall-o-death but again... no thread hijacking its a decent suggestion, it merits its own thread.
Alloh, i have used quad popcorn setups before and while my connection does seem to randomly blow hardcore, when there isnt a provider based issue, ive had no lag issues using them.
Targetable ordinance has been suggested many times, and frankly should be done.... as that would be the ideal situation to actually equip popcorn on a ship anyway.
While there are no active shields, the popcorn as an anti ordinance is relatively useless (read, with current suggested stats), as its far more efficient to stay in the blind spot of a trident and hammer away with light energy. I'd say give it similar if not the same stats as the currently equipable light popcorn. IRL its akin to the vehicle mounted dual/quad 240b turrets that were in testing while i was in the sandbox. Same weapon that an infantryman would carry, just more of em.
Were there actual shields, and therefor a reason for people to swarm the hell out of a player owned trident, id say reduce the damage to near nothing, as the role of pure missile defence would have more meaning.
otherwise... regardless where i may think its gone a bit awry, its a very good suggestion, and something that with tweaking could be damn nice.
Alloh, as far as flak/artillery turrets/weapons They've been suggested, i think they'd be damn cool, however, your model needs its own thread, and has a few failings as well.
Prox fuzes on the flak rounds are a bit overpowered to make them challenging to use, how about something more along the lines of real flak. give them a blast radius of about half of a flare, 4 guns per turret..and say..they explode 5 (arbitrary number) seconds after launch.
This gives the opponent the chance to get inside the wall-o-death but again... no thread hijacking its a decent suggestion, it merits its own thread.
Aye, doesn't need to be one or the other. I'd personally like to see both ideas implemented, so that we'd have three options for defense turrets.
I would just like to weigh in on the lag issue... First of RR, the age of your PC has absolutely 0 to do with lag... It's your internet connection.
On that note, the lag issue is pretty much a non-issue for US players. The servers are in the US, so your lag (calculated as the time it takes a packet to reach you from the server, or vice versa) isn't really noticeable.
Playing from a foreign country through is a different matter... even at perfect internet connection speeds, it's gonna take 150 - 200ms for a packet to reach me... which means, that if you fire your weapon at me, I will most likely only know about it after 200+ milliseconds, and that is a LOT in combat.
I would like to hear from the non-US players regarding lag on the flechette / AGT weapons...
On that note, the lag issue is pretty much a non-issue for US players. The servers are in the US, so your lag (calculated as the time it takes a packet to reach you from the server, or vice versa) isn't really noticeable.
Playing from a foreign country through is a different matter... even at perfect internet connection speeds, it's gonna take 150 - 200ms for a packet to reach me... which means, that if you fire your weapon at me, I will most likely only know about it after 200+ milliseconds, and that is a LOT in combat.
I would like to hear from the non-US players regarding lag on the flechette / AGT weapons...
Interesting... so when I experience no lag in Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, Russia, Japan, China, Pakistan, Canada, Guatemala, El Salvador, Iran and a dozen other countries its what, magic?
More to the point, I use AGT's and Flechettes quite a bit and no matter where I am in the world I don't get lag.
More to the point, I use AGT's and Flechettes quite a bit and no matter where I am in the world I don't get lag.
This is a Very vague memory, but I think I heard that it was a server-related issue, not a client one. Something about the number of rounds that a gat puts out at once straining the server if there are too many firing at the same time. I could certainly be mistaken though.
I heard that (or something similar) but I do a lot of hive skirms and border conflicts, lots of ships and lots of AGT's... I still don't get lag.