Forums » Suggestions
CRAFTING
My Opinion
Crafting... it’s been one of the many aspects I have wanted to see come to fruition in VO, and not just this current batch of “crafting missions” with exorbitantly high amounts of item input and travel time. It’s also still in a “beta-test” mode since its conception with little improvement. This aspect has the potential to drive just about everything in VO. I don’t claim to know what will work or have an inkling as to the complexities of development on your side for such a “wish”, but I would like to help in anyway I can and am willing too to see this aspect brought to VO as fast as humanly possible with a high operational success rate, e.g. no show stopping bugs or consistent bugs of annoyance.
/opinion
My Suggestions
I. Universal accessibility to crafting the great majority of player-controlled content.
- A. Crafting at stations should be not be mission based but another tab interface like the Commerce tab.
- - 1. You can craft all or most of the station items that the station sells.
- - 2. Crafting should utilize base materials (ore) the majority of the time for items.
- - - a. Ore can be bought or mined, and optionally refined for higher quality items.
- - - - i. Refining ore can come at a pentality of 2% loss of initial material, e.g. refine 10,000cu of ore and receive 9,800cu of refined ore.
- - - b. Example of simplified crafting tree:
Bought/Mined ore > Refine ore (optional) > various components that can be bought or crafted > crafted item
- - - - i. Streamline crafting, e.g. ore > item, don’t force exorbant crafting steps for a single item, but this does not need to cut out the ability to craft the various components that would make said item.
- - - - ii. Crafting items should draw upon local inventory and note ship inventory and station inventory separately, this can also use the option to look at universal inventory with items marked that correspond to the crafting requirements, and also note locations that have said items.
- B. I’m going to leave this at the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid) level.
/suggestions
TRADING
My Opinion
Trading is still just as broken before price depreciation introduction, the difference is less credits are earned. It still forces most players to seek out fixed buy and sell options from the stations and it completely ignores the most obvious, to me, source and drive for trading, other players. There is no simple way to put items you want to sell on the market, nor is it simple to buy from other players. It’s still a bare-bones operation that operates mostly hidden and barely operational. This is the most influential aspect, in my opinion, that resides within VO. It opens up so many avenues of trade between players never seen or thought of before. Again, I don’t claim to know what will work or know of the complexitities regarding trading on the development side of VO, but I am willing to help where I can in seeing this come to its full potential.
Now that I think about it more, I’m kind of surprised noone, or unknown to me, has made a plugin that hosts a trade hub of information where players can place orders for buying and selling, the only main issue with that is transfering items and credits which comes down to players meeting face to face at times and locations they can agree to, and trying to operate such a thing.
/opinion
My Suggestions
I. Universal accessibility to player-controlled buy and sell orders.
- A. Players can place buy and sell orders for anything they wish from any station in the game.
- - 1. Credits are transfered when items are bought, but items still remain at the location where they were put up for sale but obviously are transferred to the buyers inventory.
- B. K.I.S.S. me ;o
/suggestions
SPAAAAAAAAACE
My Opinion
Okay, while not being overtly ಠ_ಠ (serious) this one thing I find awesome to think about. Space. We. Need. More. Space. And, yes, I’m hearing you yelling at the screen, “There’s too much space as is!”. This reaction is not far from the truth, but given current trade markets and mining, they’re oversaturated to the point of boredem or rather “not worth my time”. Now, if the above mentioned suggestions are taken seriously (ಠ_ಠ), then most of the boredem would be aleviated, but still more space is better if you think about it, exploration, more options for event hosting, the possibilities go on.
/opinion
My Suggestion
I. More systems for Grey space and anything else, e.g. Deneb War.
[THE END]
My Opinion
Crafting... it’s been one of the many aspects I have wanted to see come to fruition in VO, and not just this current batch of “crafting missions” with exorbitantly high amounts of item input and travel time. It’s also still in a “beta-test” mode since its conception with little improvement. This aspect has the potential to drive just about everything in VO. I don’t claim to know what will work or have an inkling as to the complexities of development on your side for such a “wish”, but I would like to help in anyway I can and am willing too to see this aspect brought to VO as fast as humanly possible with a high operational success rate, e.g. no show stopping bugs or consistent bugs of annoyance.
/opinion
My Suggestions
I. Universal accessibility to crafting the great majority of player-controlled content.
- A. Crafting at stations should be not be mission based but another tab interface like the Commerce tab.
- - 1. You can craft all or most of the station items that the station sells.
- - 2. Crafting should utilize base materials (ore) the majority of the time for items.
- - - a. Ore can be bought or mined, and optionally refined for higher quality items.
- - - - i. Refining ore can come at a pentality of 2% loss of initial material, e.g. refine 10,000cu of ore and receive 9,800cu of refined ore.
- - - b. Example of simplified crafting tree:
Bought/Mined ore > Refine ore (optional) > various components that can be bought or crafted > crafted item
- - - - i. Streamline crafting, e.g. ore > item, don’t force exorbant crafting steps for a single item, but this does not need to cut out the ability to craft the various components that would make said item.
- - - - ii. Crafting items should draw upon local inventory and note ship inventory and station inventory separately, this can also use the option to look at universal inventory with items marked that correspond to the crafting requirements, and also note locations that have said items.
- B. I’m going to leave this at the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid) level.
/suggestions
TRADING
My Opinion
Trading is still just as broken before price depreciation introduction, the difference is less credits are earned. It still forces most players to seek out fixed buy and sell options from the stations and it completely ignores the most obvious, to me, source and drive for trading, other players. There is no simple way to put items you want to sell on the market, nor is it simple to buy from other players. It’s still a bare-bones operation that operates mostly hidden and barely operational. This is the most influential aspect, in my opinion, that resides within VO. It opens up so many avenues of trade between players never seen or thought of before. Again, I don’t claim to know what will work or know of the complexitities regarding trading on the development side of VO, but I am willing to help where I can in seeing this come to its full potential.
Now that I think about it more, I’m kind of surprised noone, or unknown to me, has made a plugin that hosts a trade hub of information where players can place orders for buying and selling, the only main issue with that is transfering items and credits which comes down to players meeting face to face at times and locations they can agree to, and trying to operate such a thing.
/opinion
My Suggestions
I. Universal accessibility to player-controlled buy and sell orders.
- A. Players can place buy and sell orders for anything they wish from any station in the game.
- - 1. Credits are transfered when items are bought, but items still remain at the location where they were put up for sale but obviously are transferred to the buyers inventory.
- B. K.I.S.S. me ;o
/suggestions
SPAAAAAAAAACE
My Opinion
Okay, while not being overtly ಠ_ಠ (serious) this one thing I find awesome to think about. Space. We. Need. More. Space. And, yes, I’m hearing you yelling at the screen, “There’s too much space as is!”. This reaction is not far from the truth, but given current trade markets and mining, they’re oversaturated to the point of boredem or rather “not worth my time”. Now, if the above mentioned suggestions are taken seriously (ಠ_ಠ), then most of the boredem would be aleviated, but still more space is better if you think about it, exploration, more options for event hosting, the possibilities go on.
/opinion
My Suggestion
I. More systems for Grey space and anything else, e.g. Deneb War.
[THE END]
+1
+1
-1 for now: insufficient playerbase
+1
-1 for now: insufficient playerbase
+1
+1 This is why I left the comfort zone of being guilded and the benefits that come with it. I'm finding that farming and crafting for folk building Tridents is quite lucrative. I've set my prices arbitrarily low to create the illusion for myself that I have serious competition. Though to be honest, I'm hard pressed to meet the demand. I'd love a global system where missions could be created to build x number of a certain widget for the offered price. I'd also love a commission system where I can offer x number of a certain widget at a specific price and anyone can buy the items at their leisure, without my needing to be present for the transaction. If I understood Inc correctly, this last is something that is planned down the road.
+1 If you build it, they will come :p
+1 This is why I left the comfort zone of being guilded and the benefits that come with it. I'm finding that farming and crafting for folk building Tridents is quite lucrative. I've set my prices arbitrarily low to create the illusion for myself that I have serious competition. Though to be honest, I'm hard pressed to meet the demand. I'd love a global system where missions could be created to build x number of a certain widget for the offered price. I'd also love a commission system where I can offer x number of a certain widget at a specific price and anyone can buy the items at their leisure, without my needing to be present for the transaction. If I understood Inc correctly, this last is something that is planned down the road.
+1 If you build it, they will come :p
These are examples of what I've been talking about for most of the past 2.5 years when I mention consumer based economies. To have one item, you must consume other items (be it through mission or some type of automated process each station runs). The stations can create missions for materials or subassemblies. The players receive funds based on standard supply/demand curves for retrieving/completing the necessary materials for the pipelines.
What the player base needs to accept is that we have too many PvPers. There needs to be a much higher ratio of non-combat players (even NPCs running missions if you don't want players to be bothered with it) for the universe to feel more fleshed out. Sorry, but rats and other combat types aren't what will make VO grow; it's all those other career paths that will. The surest way to this is to give the miner and cargo hauler an integral place in the game design.
What the player base needs to accept is that we have too many PvPers. There needs to be a much higher ratio of non-combat players (even NPCs running missions if you don't want players to be bothered with it) for the universe to feel more fleshed out. Sorry, but rats and other combat types aren't what will make VO grow; it's all those other career paths that will. The surest way to this is to give the miner and cargo hauler an integral place in the game design.
A few things that I think may help trade:
1. Bulk discounts... (the more a player buys, the lower the price. As opposed to the current model, the more a player sells,the less he gets. Traders are profiteers, not patriots.)
2. A significantly better system for P2P trade.
3. Redistribute trade goods so that you cannot find the majority of trade goods in one station/system.
4. Tie player trade to the actual economy and supplement it with NPC trade for slower periods.
Crafting does need to be more accessible to those into that sort of thing but, it is new... so I'm content to wait and see where it goes. Though I think crafting of ships and weapons could be somewhat less of a work load. Currently, there is no actual fun in crafting and VO is a game, ergo... it really ought to be fun.
Space is very large but, we do in fact need more of it... we just just need to find a way to fill it as it expands.
1. Bulk discounts... (the more a player buys, the lower the price. As opposed to the current model, the more a player sells,the less he gets. Traders are profiteers, not patriots.)
2. A significantly better system for P2P trade.
3. Redistribute trade goods so that you cannot find the majority of trade goods in one station/system.
4. Tie player trade to the actual economy and supplement it with NPC trade for slower periods.
Crafting does need to be more accessible to those into that sort of thing but, it is new... so I'm content to wait and see where it goes. Though I think crafting of ships and weapons could be somewhat less of a work load. Currently, there is no actual fun in crafting and VO is a game, ergo... it really ought to be fun.
Space is very large but, we do in fact need more of it... we just just need to find a way to fill it as it expands.
What VO needs is scarcity. Right now, the smart way to play is by cooperating with everyone else. So there is no conflict. The only conflict that exists is thanks to those who play non cooperatively- the pirates, passport department, hungry plants, etc.. And while I'll agree the game needs this group, I'll be adamant in my statement that this should not be by any means the largest conflict in the game. Nationalist forces should dwarf the pirate population. They should be fighting over things that matter on a daily / weekly / monthly basis. I want to hear Itani vs Serco trash talk on 100 rather than trade vs pirate.
I'll probably get yelled at for this, there should be competition / conflict between trade groups over scarce items. These items should be of a nature that they matter enough to be fought over, but not so scarce they aren't worth bothering with. In fact, I would argue, that your trade guilds should be the biggest pirat- opportunists in the game!
All the economic redux has accomplished so far is to make profits somewhat scarce. This has simply caused players that are still trading to find alternate methods, often making their profits off of unconventional trade items or escort, which while dramatically nerfed now (finally) still offer pretty good payouts on average for no thought or effort.
It's great that the cost of playing is almost free. Credits are easy, death costs a new ship and equipment. But really, it's too easy in my opinion. We need something to fight over. We need scarcity.
We also need more manufacturing for common items that don't require an unprofitable effort to produce for sale to stations and players.
I'll probably get yelled at for this, there should be competition / conflict between trade groups over scarce items. These items should be of a nature that they matter enough to be fought over, but not so scarce they aren't worth bothering with. In fact, I would argue, that your trade guilds should be the biggest pirat- opportunists in the game!
All the economic redux has accomplished so far is to make profits somewhat scarce. This has simply caused players that are still trading to find alternate methods, often making their profits off of unconventional trade items or escort, which while dramatically nerfed now (finally) still offer pretty good payouts on average for no thought or effort.
It's great that the cost of playing is almost free. Credits are easy, death costs a new ship and equipment. But really, it's too easy in my opinion. We need something to fight over. We need scarcity.
We also need more manufacturing for common items that don't require an unprofitable effort to produce for sale to stations and players.
Many good things here... And as a Rat, RR have good insights of trading...
My votes goes to:
1. Improve crafting, making different station produce different items.
1.1. Make stations pay well for manufactured items, and (re-)sell them at even higher price (ship components included)
1.2. Mining stations offers Refine Ore. Give semi-random return, like premium ore returns 80...90% of purified minerals, and regular ore some 50...80%
2. Foster P2P trade:
2.1. Allow guilds and players to own "shops" inside commercial stations, where they can place items to sell, and "wishlist" of items/price to purchase from whoever comes by. Shop owner not required to be present.
2.2. Offer some AD board, BBS, etc, where any player/guild can place offers and requests, either for trade items or for actions, like a Levi party invite, mini-events, player jams...
3. Redistrubute trade goods way more, make them spread.
3.1. Few stations produce itemX and sell it cheap. Other nearby stations sell those items more expensive, And remaining stations only purchase it, price relating to distance of items
4. CONTRABAND: We need banned items, unwelcome items, rare items. And some danger transporting it, with proportional profit.
4.1. Transporting manufactured items should have two options, Safe, paying taxes before departing or at borders, and unsafe without taxes, if you caught you have to pay double taxes of face consequences.
5. Bigger space? Only if adding GRAY systems, without permanent stations... Indeed, I'd prefer smaller nations...
My votes goes to:
1. Improve crafting, making different station produce different items.
1.1. Make stations pay well for manufactured items, and (re-)sell them at even higher price (ship components included)
1.2. Mining stations offers Refine Ore. Give semi-random return, like premium ore returns 80...90% of purified minerals, and regular ore some 50...80%
2. Foster P2P trade:
2.1. Allow guilds and players to own "shops" inside commercial stations, where they can place items to sell, and "wishlist" of items/price to purchase from whoever comes by. Shop owner not required to be present.
2.2. Offer some AD board, BBS, etc, where any player/guild can place offers and requests, either for trade items or for actions, like a Levi party invite, mini-events, player jams...
3. Redistrubute trade goods way more, make them spread.
3.1. Few stations produce itemX and sell it cheap. Other nearby stations sell those items more expensive, And remaining stations only purchase it, price relating to distance of items
4. CONTRABAND: We need banned items, unwelcome items, rare items. And some danger transporting it, with proportional profit.
4.1. Transporting manufactured items should have two options, Safe, paying taxes before departing or at borders, and unsafe without taxes, if you caught you have to pay double taxes of face consequences.
5. Bigger space? Only if adding GRAY systems, without permanent stations... Indeed, I'd prefer smaller nations...
Many players have asked to have trading improved including myself. Incarnate has effectively said no.
I dont exactly blame him - economics even for a game is rather dry and boring material. Not fun to develop at all and there is a lot of risk to making such a radical change in the game.
Its a subject I have personally given up on.
I dont exactly blame him - economics even for a game is rather dry and boring material. Not fun to develop at all and there is a lot of risk to making such a radical change in the game.
Its a subject I have personally given up on.
-----------------
My Suggestions
I. Universal accessibility to player-controlled buy and sell orders.
- A. Players can place buy and sell orders for anything they wish from any station in the game.
- - 1. Credits are transfered when items are bought, but items still remain at the location where they were put up for sale but obviously are transferred to the buyers inventory.
- B. K.I.S.S. me ;o
/suggestions
-----------------
-10
A. You should not be able to trade without some risk, the current model adds the extra problem of me being able to screw you over on trade, by A making your moth explode when you have just paid me or B you making my moth explode when i come in with the goods, this risk is good it makes trading well a risky operation.
i do trade a some items ( mainly weapons ) with my guild mates all the time.
The reason you do not see that much trade is because it risky and it should be somewhat risky now focusing on making you able to see more clearly what people have for sale, thats something that is worth it.
maybe the devs could implement some ingame forum where you can advertise your trade deals.
The second and bigger problem is inflation, money in VO is basicly worthless and it take a TON of money to buy stuff ( you can easyly have a player to player rate of a couple mill if not more ) specially for bot drops etc.
My Suggestions
I. Universal accessibility to player-controlled buy and sell orders.
- A. Players can place buy and sell orders for anything they wish from any station in the game.
- - 1. Credits are transfered when items are bought, but items still remain at the location where they were put up for sale but obviously are transferred to the buyers inventory.
- B. K.I.S.S. me ;o
/suggestions
-----------------
-10
A. You should not be able to trade without some risk, the current model adds the extra problem of me being able to screw you over on trade, by A making your moth explode when you have just paid me or B you making my moth explode when i come in with the goods, this risk is good it makes trading well a risky operation.
i do trade a some items ( mainly weapons ) with my guild mates all the time.
The reason you do not see that much trade is because it risky and it should be somewhat risky now focusing on making you able to see more clearly what people have for sale, thats something that is worth it.
maybe the devs could implement some ingame forum where you can advertise your trade deals.
The second and bigger problem is inflation, money in VO is basicly worthless and it take a TON of money to buy stuff ( you can easyly have a player to player rate of a couple mill if not more ) specially for bot drops etc.
Deathzor: Um, players would still have to travel to pick up the items they bought and then move them where they want said items. And, given the item source topography of the game, you'll have various trade hubs that may specialize in certain items or have a general assortment, but it would essentially draw people out to these locations, making a rather organic (or as organic as the game can get) and in turn create "hotspots" of opportunities. So, not being personal or anything, shove off on the notion of this removing risk from trading, both parties still travel as far as necessary to utilize items, it just brings up the long sought after ability of transferring cargo within a station, although in a more round-about fashion.
Deathzor, the current P2P trade system is the most unrealistic/stupid thing I have seen in VO or any other game. Much as it sickens me, I agree with Surbius.
/me goes to vomit and bathe in bleach.
/me goes to vomit and bathe in bleach.
Prior to capships I would have agreed with you deathzor, but the current model is not practical when dealing with the insane amount of goods involved in capship construction. Having to manually drop and scoop 5,000 cu in 200 cu increments just to transfer it between players is silly. Or in 120 cu increments, if dealing with FCP. Tridents require hundreds of thousands of cu of stuff.
Perhaps space reorganization?
[EDIT] You seem upset.
[EDIT] You seem upset.
@pizzasgood
I agree that capships make this more like iceplant ( problematic ), but I would have WAY less objection if there is a simple feature to change ownership of items in the game so for example I can hand over items in the station, the problem then becomes payment now if you force payment its in my eyes to safe, where as if you don't force it well its the internet. ( even know I do like that option it seems to be asking to much for scams )
the problem is I really like the Mexican stand-off idea with trade but it can be holy impractical for larger orders.
A guess a working solution could be: allow transfer between ships but not trade in station, this should make it somewhat faster but would still involve a lot of dock/undock.
I really don't like the buy/sell order idea as it again sounds WAY to safe for me, yes I want to make sure people that do trade have to depend on the other party not messing with them and stealing there cash.
so I still have to say the current system has its charm and I do consider risk free trade to be a huge step backward.
So in reality do I have a solution: no, but I don't consider the idea to be a step forward.
@Surbius for the map of space
-9999999999999999999
you have to be joking
it would make the travel from and to grey so easy. you could get to all but 1 grey system within 1 jump of nation space, meaning effectively I can give up on piracy completely don't know if you realise it in your design but there are 0 choke points where pirates can sit for the bulk of trade ( uit / grey trade ).
So effectively you made the 1 of the roles in the game ever close to impossible, hate to say it but given the amount of player backlash against pirates already its a hard job to do ( now I like it but I see many new pirates get frustrated and leave again ), its rare for them to stick around, there are not that many active pirates to begin with if your goal is to close to whip out piracy then that map design is perfect, I mean all that's left to do is make the turrets a bit stronger. ( about 1 hit kills and don't fix the wormhole bug/make it always like that ) so that nobody can jump into nation-space with a hate or worse standing.
I agree that capships make this more like iceplant ( problematic ), but I would have WAY less objection if there is a simple feature to change ownership of items in the game so for example I can hand over items in the station, the problem then becomes payment now if you force payment its in my eyes to safe, where as if you don't force it well its the internet. ( even know I do like that option it seems to be asking to much for scams )
the problem is I really like the Mexican stand-off idea with trade but it can be holy impractical for larger orders.
A guess a working solution could be: allow transfer between ships but not trade in station, this should make it somewhat faster but would still involve a lot of dock/undock.
I really don't like the buy/sell order idea as it again sounds WAY to safe for me, yes I want to make sure people that do trade have to depend on the other party not messing with them and stealing there cash.
so I still have to say the current system has its charm and I do consider risk free trade to be a huge step backward.
So in reality do I have a solution: no, but I don't consider the idea to be a step forward.
@Surbius for the map of space
-9999999999999999999
you have to be joking
it would make the travel from and to grey so easy. you could get to all but 1 grey system within 1 jump of nation space, meaning effectively I can give up on piracy completely don't know if you realise it in your design but there are 0 choke points where pirates can sit for the bulk of trade ( uit / grey trade ).
So effectively you made the 1 of the roles in the game ever close to impossible, hate to say it but given the amount of player backlash against pirates already its a hard job to do ( now I like it but I see many new pirates get frustrated and leave again ), its rare for them to stick around, there are not that many active pirates to begin with if your goal is to close to whip out piracy then that map design is perfect, I mean all that's left to do is make the turrets a bit stronger. ( about 1 hit kills and don't fix the wormhole bug/make it always like that ) so that nobody can jump into nation-space with a hate or worse standing.
-1 surb-map. The Itani bit is fine, but the grey is totally broken.
@death: one way would be to have a minimum volume requirement for in-station trade, so that it is only allowed for very large orders, and anything smaller has to be done the current way. Another option is something TRS proposed a few weeks ago - make it so that you can make a certificate to transfer ownership of goods, and the certificate would be exchanged in space in the traditional way.
@death: one way would be to have a minimum volume requirement for in-station trade, so that it is only allowed for very large orders, and anything smaller has to be done the current way. Another option is something TRS proposed a few weeks ago - make it so that you can make a certificate to transfer ownership of goods, and the certificate would be exchanged in space in the traditional way.
@ Surbius - Yeah......no. The grey is completely broken (as mentioned previously) and UIT space is mess as well.
I'd suggest something more like:
Travel through smurf-space needs a little streamlining, considering how much larger it is than anything else. The suggested WHs reduce the trans-national transit to roughly the same as it is for the Serco and UIT
The suggested WHs can be moved about to facilitate better balance as needed.
I'd suggest something more like:
Travel through smurf-space needs a little streamlining, considering how much larger it is than anything else. The suggested WHs reduce the trans-national transit to roughly the same as it is for the Serco and UIT
The suggested WHs can be moved about to facilitate better balance as needed.
lol @ Itani getting the benefit of extra systems without the drawbacks.
I recall a time when suggestions at least made an attempt to not appear to be completely self serving.
[edit] In reference to the suggested maps.
[edit] In reference to the suggested maps.
Terrrans map is a lot better but ...
Deneb needs a direct route to grey thru a few new grey systems
Serco could use a few system to balance out the extra Itani ones not that I think it matters
Deneb needs a direct route to grey thru a few new grey systems
Serco could use a few system to balance out the extra Itani ones not that I think it matters
Cratesom, Monsticus, Closetos, and Candyna should all be exceptionally dangerous, particularly Monsticus. Many asteroids and an above average chance of storms happening. Many higher level bots. And angry bots that send out a bunch to attack you simultaneously, not like normal bots that ignore you other than the one or two who chase you around. Possibly also have some NPC pirates who chase you between sectors or even through wormholes.
These should be a pain to cross, and with absolutely no routes guaranteed to avoid storms.
Cratesom and Monsticus would have no stations at all. Closetos might have single station; either a Corvus barracks or a Tunguska mining. Or just make it empty too. Candyna could have perhaps two stations, but should at least have one.
There should also be valuable drops and rare ore aplenty.