Forums » Suggestions
Links to similiar threads (catalog of them)
Player Based Economy
I understand the twitch base to VO.
Many of our players know of one of our high end competitors, Eve Online.
This suggestion is for both a character knowledge database fused with a manufacturing process, as well as a possible "freemium" option to this.
My following suggestion is to enhance a "freemium" kind of option so both developers of the game and the players can gain much. If the developers also value the depth of their loyal player base they could "return" this money by hiring a bigger development team to both enhance this option but also have mass teams solely purposed for a grand 2.0 launch like a fps/tps style play that would be used for pilot movement and interaction between boarding ships, stations, or planers (extremely large programming feats as the programs used for this sort of launch would be a completely different style of switch/ variable/ event program interaction, as well as surely needed server enhancements. All which need money to expand, but expanding as such would greatly increase playerbase thus more revenue.
In detail this release would be firstly a manufacturing process. Player made ships, player made weapons, ammunition, a variety of items. All starting with a change in ore exchange.
All stations offer ores. Not premium just standard. Ive seen ideas trying to alter ratios with premium ore versus mined ore.
I could be wrong how a stations capacity is altered so please correct me if I am wrong.
But be sure stationd do NOT auto refill ore stockpiles.
Allow this as a variable in the programming side.
When a player sells to the station, the station stockpile gains that amount. When a player buys the ore, it subtracts ot from the stockpile. In order to maintain mission current stability, keep premium AND regular ore. Both are used equally in manufacturing. A 1:1 ratio. This will allow miners to sell to a station that a manufacturer is buying from, maintaining a balanced stockpile. Traders will also effect it as they will be shiping ores to emptied stations for profit, constantly moving ore like a thriving economy.
If the playerbase seems to gain instability, create some station collectors or station manufacturers to manufacture weapons in the station at the price of the stockpile (based on how the economy seems to effect the stations stockpile (low supply or low demand).
With the manufacturing launch, you are making the role of a trader or miner more purposeful and rewarding. A sense of importance. The increase in players like this is rewarding to a pirate (more people moving around) and more pirates rewards the bounty hunters.
Manufacturing would be done in Factories and Refining ores Into metals would be done in refineries. Both would take real life time to complete.
Two ways could speed up the process. One is the freemium idea. Release the mobile crysts across all platforms. Now these can be used to speed up the processes. All MMORTS use this theory to rake in money. Players tend to complain because of its unfair options.
But most of the time players who utilize these options, dont gain needed experience to be a skilled vet, and honestly the gain the get is temporary as it would gain them money or weapo.ns or ships that without proper skills would be lost when killed in combat. The fairness factor here is what i expect to be the primary debate with this idea.
The second way to speed these processes would be the following idea implementation, a character skill tree.
Following the manufacturing launch, release a character knowledge/skill tree launch. This is a knowledge base inspired by EVE.
Characters have a base knowledge.
You can learn one knowledge at a time, using real time, even when you are offline.
The first skills to be released would be possiblu the following
Ones to speed up refine process
Ones to speed up manufacture process
process
Ones to speed slightly speed the learning process
Ones to slightly increase trade rates with nationalities.
Ones to enhance mining rates nd reduce heat
Ones to slightly enhance weapon maneuvaribility or damage strength
Then release equipment based on knowledge.
Also have greater knowledge levels have license requirements or badge requirements so a new person cant just super enhance themselves to try to gain a severe advantage to offset their lack of experience or skill.
Once again crystals can be used to speed the process.
If i get enough positive feedback I will even begin developing the trees for above and post them here for critique and hopefully start a movement for the developers to take on.
Player Based Economy
I understand the twitch base to VO.
Many of our players know of one of our high end competitors, Eve Online.
This suggestion is for both a character knowledge database fused with a manufacturing process, as well as a possible "freemium" option to this.
My following suggestion is to enhance a "freemium" kind of option so both developers of the game and the players can gain much. If the developers also value the depth of their loyal player base they could "return" this money by hiring a bigger development team to both enhance this option but also have mass teams solely purposed for a grand 2.0 launch like a fps/tps style play that would be used for pilot movement and interaction between boarding ships, stations, or planers (extremely large programming feats as the programs used for this sort of launch would be a completely different style of switch/ variable/ event program interaction, as well as surely needed server enhancements. All which need money to expand, but expanding as such would greatly increase playerbase thus more revenue.
In detail this release would be firstly a manufacturing process. Player made ships, player made weapons, ammunition, a variety of items. All starting with a change in ore exchange.
All stations offer ores. Not premium just standard. Ive seen ideas trying to alter ratios with premium ore versus mined ore.
I could be wrong how a stations capacity is altered so please correct me if I am wrong.
But be sure stationd do NOT auto refill ore stockpiles.
Allow this as a variable in the programming side.
When a player sells to the station, the station stockpile gains that amount. When a player buys the ore, it subtracts ot from the stockpile. In order to maintain mission current stability, keep premium AND regular ore. Both are used equally in manufacturing. A 1:1 ratio. This will allow miners to sell to a station that a manufacturer is buying from, maintaining a balanced stockpile. Traders will also effect it as they will be shiping ores to emptied stations for profit, constantly moving ore like a thriving economy.
If the playerbase seems to gain instability, create some station collectors or station manufacturers to manufacture weapons in the station at the price of the stockpile (based on how the economy seems to effect the stations stockpile (low supply or low demand).
With the manufacturing launch, you are making the role of a trader or miner more purposeful and rewarding. A sense of importance. The increase in players like this is rewarding to a pirate (more people moving around) and more pirates rewards the bounty hunters.
Manufacturing would be done in Factories and Refining ores Into metals would be done in refineries. Both would take real life time to complete.
Two ways could speed up the process. One is the freemium idea. Release the mobile crysts across all platforms. Now these can be used to speed up the processes. All MMORTS use this theory to rake in money. Players tend to complain because of its unfair options.
But most of the time players who utilize these options, dont gain needed experience to be a skilled vet, and honestly the gain the get is temporary as it would gain them money or weapo.ns or ships that without proper skills would be lost when killed in combat. The fairness factor here is what i expect to be the primary debate with this idea.
The second way to speed these processes would be the following idea implementation, a character skill tree.
Following the manufacturing launch, release a character knowledge/skill tree launch. This is a knowledge base inspired by EVE.
Characters have a base knowledge.
You can learn one knowledge at a time, using real time, even when you are offline.
The first skills to be released would be possiblu the following
Ones to speed up refine process
Ones to speed up manufacture process
process
Ones to speed slightly speed the learning process
Ones to slightly increase trade rates with nationalities.
Ones to enhance mining rates nd reduce heat
Ones to slightly enhance weapon maneuvaribility or damage strength
Then release equipment based on knowledge.
Also have greater knowledge levels have license requirements or badge requirements so a new person cant just super enhance themselves to try to gain a severe advantage to offset their lack of experience or skill.
Once again crystals can be used to speed the process.
If i get enough positive feedback I will even begin developing the trees for above and post them here for critique and hopefully start a movement for the developers to take on.
/me whistles
-1 not sure how magic crystals could speed up the manufacture of items or increase my knowledge of the game that resides in my head or anything else. LEARN the game and don't expect any magic here.
Somebody channelled their thoughts well. The whole crystal idea could work, but you could, for example, change to bars of some rare metal to "bribe" workers into prioritising your stuff, thus instant/quicker upgrades and whatnot. You could strech even further by making a system so that all this speed up work affects others I.e. john doe, rather thab waiting for a new top level enginentombe built, could pay for it to be finished quicker. However, others, like steve, have to wait a little longer for their stuff, unless the paid for the quick finish. A little complex, but would be clever. Ellaborate on this point.
In the roleplaying sense of the game, these crystals would be used as follows, just an idea feel free to develop or suggest other ideas.
How crystals effect refinery (I have actual worked in one. They take scrap metal in boxes, dump into "bins" (ungated stalls for different alloy compounds (based of a chemistry breakdown of several scrap pieces) then picked up in a loader, dumped into a dumpster style cargo container then shook and fed into a flaming gas pit by vibration and a crane arm. The metal then liquifies, goes into a drain to a pool where the slag (oxidized or burnt metal) raises to the top and is skimmed while it burns in a 40,000 gallon furnance and mixes to the appropriate alloy compound then it slowly drains into moulds and gets rinsed with a chemical compound that helps speed the cooling process of the metal, then fed into a feeder which dumps the "cones" or whatever mould into a bin. The moulding process is different for larger blocks.)
The crystals would be used to buy priority within the refinery. The crystals would be used in an idea of rushed order. Rushing the order for complete finish would be like taking what they have pre made awaiting for shipment and it becoming yours. Refiniries donf build to order. They always have stockpiles, as a lot of shipments are actually loaded with a loader into the back of a gravel train, not in shipping bins.
Now crystals with manufacturing. Same concept. A lot of manufacturing companies have a "buffer", surplus, awaiting purchase and shipment. In the indystrial world thats a companies competiveness. How quick they can turn an order around.
Now for crystals with learning a knowledge, its like schooling. People say just learn the game why have this. Let me ask you for roleplay sake. If you want to go fly a C130 military plane can you just go, hey let me try and learn that and over tine master it? No pilots are paid to go toschool. In a general sense, soneone who actually learns business management, logistics, or international trades in a college, generally will be more successful than a random entry level entrepeneur. Any person who goes to school to learn and actually learns (ie good professors) will learn better tricks of the trade than trial and error and develop their knowledge. Thats the character knowledge implement. And in the sense of human knowledge. Is it easy to simultaneously read two text books with different areas of study at the exact time to actually learn both. No. I dont know anyone who can turn their eyes into chameleon eyes,read two books at once and actually read both and learn. Its one subject then the other. If you study two courses at once, you have to pause studying one to start studying the other. If youre trying to learn you dont lose what you learned, you just dont develop it more. So this implements switching k.owledge focuses and not losing progress.
Crystals effect this in a roleplay by paying a better teacher, or buying a learning aid for the subject, ie an audio track, or a complimentaey book.
A place for discussion could be, is knowledge only learned in offline play or docked in station? Because argumentatively could you read a book and fly a ship at the sane time. For it to be passive in roleplay would be it is under video and audio conference with a teacher or you are learning via audio book, or you have to implement cybernetic chips that are "downloading" the knowledge, which then the crystals are used to buy a greater bitrate signal to your cybernetic chip.
How crystals effect refinery (I have actual worked in one. They take scrap metal in boxes, dump into "bins" (ungated stalls for different alloy compounds (based of a chemistry breakdown of several scrap pieces) then picked up in a loader, dumped into a dumpster style cargo container then shook and fed into a flaming gas pit by vibration and a crane arm. The metal then liquifies, goes into a drain to a pool where the slag (oxidized or burnt metal) raises to the top and is skimmed while it burns in a 40,000 gallon furnance and mixes to the appropriate alloy compound then it slowly drains into moulds and gets rinsed with a chemical compound that helps speed the cooling process of the metal, then fed into a feeder which dumps the "cones" or whatever mould into a bin. The moulding process is different for larger blocks.)
The crystals would be used to buy priority within the refinery. The crystals would be used in an idea of rushed order. Rushing the order for complete finish would be like taking what they have pre made awaiting for shipment and it becoming yours. Refiniries donf build to order. They always have stockpiles, as a lot of shipments are actually loaded with a loader into the back of a gravel train, not in shipping bins.
Now crystals with manufacturing. Same concept. A lot of manufacturing companies have a "buffer", surplus, awaiting purchase and shipment. In the indystrial world thats a companies competiveness. How quick they can turn an order around.
Now for crystals with learning a knowledge, its like schooling. People say just learn the game why have this. Let me ask you for roleplay sake. If you want to go fly a C130 military plane can you just go, hey let me try and learn that and over tine master it? No pilots are paid to go toschool. In a general sense, soneone who actually learns business management, logistics, or international trades in a college, generally will be more successful than a random entry level entrepeneur. Any person who goes to school to learn and actually learns (ie good professors) will learn better tricks of the trade than trial and error and develop their knowledge. Thats the character knowledge implement. And in the sense of human knowledge. Is it easy to simultaneously read two text books with different areas of study at the exact time to actually learn both. No. I dont know anyone who can turn their eyes into chameleon eyes,read two books at once and actually read both and learn. Its one subject then the other. If you study two courses at once, you have to pause studying one to start studying the other. If youre trying to learn you dont lose what you learned, you just dont develop it more. So this implements switching k.owledge focuses and not losing progress.
Crystals effect this in a roleplay by paying a better teacher, or buying a learning aid for the subject, ie an audio track, or a complimentaey book.
A place for discussion could be, is knowledge only learned in offline play or docked in station? Because argumentatively could you read a book and fly a ship at the sane time. For it to be passive in roleplay would be it is under video and audio conference with a teacher or you are learning via audio book, or you have to implement cybernetic chips that are "downloading" the knowledge, which then the crystals are used to buy a greater bitrate signal to your cybernetic chip.
And PS the crystals are already implemented. Its like 500 for 0.99 USD or something. They honestly are useless minus for buying ships which with the level 4 cap for non-sub takes a bit to run out, especially with them letting you earn crystals. But them having the ships cost credits plus crystals, them taking earning crystals out kind of created an almost time barrier for f2p. The level cap already creates a limit that i feel is a good push to become sub, but implementing this could push buying crystals for f2p and impatient subs alike. These additional uses also promote a higher crystal use rate than earning so impatient people would want to buy crystal packs.
Now add in that subscribers earn crystals at the same rate as f2p and youve created a balance, as subs pay money already for more content and now would solely use these crystals for that developmental speedup. So monitor and balance the earn rate and you havent offset the benefit subs already have on f2p, cuztheir level cap is a huge pushto becone a sub.
Now add in that subscribers earn crystals at the same rate as f2p and youve created a balance, as subs pay money already for more content and now would solely use these crystals for that developmental speedup. So monitor and balance the earn rate and you havent offset the benefit subs already have on f2p, cuztheir level cap is a huge pushto becone a sub.
What you propose is pay to win, though that can be corrected easily. The best way is to just always give subscribers the benefits of crystal without having to actually use it, as happens now. The other way is to set a fixed limit to how much crystal can be bought or used, so that there is an upper limit to how much money can be pumped into the game per person. But that introduces additional annoyances, like making multi-accounting more attractive, and the need to add a true premium tier subscription that builds-in that maximum purchase as a convenience for those who (for some strange reason) enjoy having a level playing field.
As for the EVE-esque real-time skill gaining idea, kindly stuff it back up your bum. Or perhaps you can find a lovely new home for it. It certainly doesn't belong here, at any rate, and your littering is not appreciated.
As for the EVE-esque real-time skill gaining idea, kindly stuff it back up your bum. Or perhaps you can find a lovely new home for it. It certainly doesn't belong here, at any rate, and your littering is not appreciated.
May I ask you why the real time knowledge isnt something you like. Objections to ideas without farther explanations, reasonings behind them lead to undeveloped ideas that cant be created to satisfy the playerbase as a whole. These forums are littered with unexplained objections, which without reasonibg seem to be objextions to the general ideas of change and game development, not the ideas themselves. A game that doesnt evolve generally doesnt expsnd.
These unexplaibed objections scattred on this board by many people could be a reason why big game developing changes wrent implemented, combined with many ideas not being developed once constructive crticism is given. Discussion and debate are prime factors into productive development.
I respect criticism but constructive criticism, not fear of change objection. So i am interested in why you do not lije the ideas.
And please expand your feelings on how these ideas would create a pay to win game. You can see my explanations on my opinion on how it would not create a pay to win playerbase
These unexplaibed objections scattred on this board by many people could be a reason why big game developing changes wrent implemented, combined with many ideas not being developed once constructive crticism is given. Discussion and debate are prime factors into productive development.
I respect criticism but constructive criticism, not fear of change objection. So i am interested in why you do not lije the ideas.
And please expand your feelings on how these ideas would create a pay to win game. You can see my explanations on my opinion on how it would not create a pay to win playerbase
+1 to the suggested meadtod of improving the economy. I know Inc already has what he calls a "shadow economy" running in the background to test how such a thing might work?
-1 to the skill tree idea. With twitch based combat there is already a real time learning curve. Also if we are simply delivering materials to manufacturing facilities and refineries we have no need to learn how to do the process, we simply deliver and retrieve the goods. Time for missions to complete is a poor idea too, as in VO it already takes significant time to simply gather the materials.
In app purchases using crystals has been extensively discussed in other threads. However if there were level unlocks for f2p and various cosmetic packages for everybody that would be cool.
VO is a unique game. We all appreciate that you are trying to make it better, but let's try and keep it unique, not just another version of something else.
-1 to the skill tree idea. With twitch based combat there is already a real time learning curve. Also if we are simply delivering materials to manufacturing facilities and refineries we have no need to learn how to do the process, we simply deliver and retrieve the goods. Time for missions to complete is a poor idea too, as in VO it already takes significant time to simply gather the materials.
In app purchases using crystals has been extensively discussed in other threads. However if there were level unlocks for f2p and various cosmetic packages for everybody that would be cool.
VO is a unique game. We all appreciate that you are trying to make it better, but let's try and keep it unique, not just another version of something else.
So i understand what you mean ny "timr for missions" youre speaking of time for materials to be refined and manufactured?
If so would your suggestion be instaneous completion, ie almost a trade system. Like heres 40 ore click refine and now you have 40 refined metals of that type.
If thats a suggestion, what us your opinion, a constant 1:1 ratio, or say more common ores you need more ore of, like 50 ferric ore required to make 50 ferric bars (name inquestio) and 10 xith ore required to make 10 xith bars. And why?
If so would your suggestion be instaneous completion, ie almost a trade system. Like heres 40 ore click refine and now you have 40 refined metals of that type.
If thats a suggestion, what us your opinion, a constant 1:1 ratio, or say more common ores you need more ore of, like 50 ferric ore required to make 50 ferric bars (name inquestio) and 10 xith ore required to make 10 xith bars. And why?
We don't need you and your LUDICROUS love for the spreadsheet game here. GO AWAY noob.
Prime example of what i referenced earlier joylessjoker. Thank you.
And what exactly makes you a significant person, one that we should all bow down and listen to?
No one is more significant than anyone else. But how significant is a post or a person to a suggestion or developmental thread if all he or she does is troll, bash, or even object ideas without explained reasoning behind it. Doesnt seem like their words are worth the time posted unless they are targeting an emotional victim who gives any personal thought to their unintelligent and unorginal words.a development thread is for thinkers and pursuers of a better future, not someone who has time to waste being unoriginally opinionated.
So if we have a mutual understanding of constructive debate and discussion can we focus on the idea suggested rather than bumping this thread with useless bantering. Im sure the developers are too busy to waste time reading banters like this in a thread when theyre trying to examine a new idea.
So if we have a mutual understanding of constructive debate and discussion can we focus on the idea suggested rather than bumping this thread with useless bantering. Im sure the developers are too busy to waste time reading banters like this in a thread when theyre trying to examine a new idea.
You wanted feedback to your ideas? That's exactly the purpose of my post, to tell you what I think. You can't handle negative reactions? Go to your mom and cry a river.
Why do I think your ideas are utter garbage? Okay, you want to know a little more. I play VO for the twitch PvP experience. I tried Eve once, and I ABSOLUTELY detest it because of the training time. I DO NOT want to pay for a game just to sit back and wait for my training to finish. Why the fuck would I pay for the waiting game? I pay to PLAY, for an ACTIVE experience.
Many of our players know of one of our high end competitors, Eve Online.
Wrong. VO was never meant to compete with Eve. They are apples and oranges, offering very different experiences. Eve spreadsheet fanboys like you belong in Eve. I strongly recommend you to stay there, until you're ready to accept VO for what it is.
Why do I think your ideas are utter garbage? Okay, you want to know a little more. I play VO for the twitch PvP experience. I tried Eve once, and I ABSOLUTELY detest it because of the training time. I DO NOT want to pay for a game just to sit back and wait for my training to finish. Why the fuck would I pay for the waiting game? I pay to PLAY, for an ACTIVE experience.
Many of our players know of one of our high end competitors, Eve Online.
Wrong. VO was never meant to compete with Eve. They are apples and oranges, offering very different experiences. Eve spreadsheet fanboys like you belong in Eve. I strongly recommend you to stay there, until you're ready to accept VO for what it is.
Loser, umm...Failure, we all have subscriptions here, so his opinion is worth as much as yours or anyone else's. In fact, given how vitriolic you are about everything, I would posit anyone who discusses things in a civil manner is entitled to an opinion rated much higher than yours. Either add constructively to the conversation, or get the heck out. No one is interested in you, your warranties (which BTW belong in the RP forum, not here twit), or your juvenile attempts at humor or intellectual response. What?! Did your mommy tell you your macaroni art was the best in the world, and now you think you have a genius level IQ? (BTW, my IQ is 190, I speak multiple languages, and am able to carry on conversations in a dozen professional fields, while I KNOW I can arrogant and bloated at times, I have NEVER been as conceited as what I read from you every day on these forums) Crawl back under your bridge, Troll!
__________________________________________________________________________________
As to the OP, what you're describing as been discussion a lot over the years. For starters, the stations don't have limited availability on anything. The "high needs" requirements are for window dressing only at the moment. What you're suggesting is akin to what others (particularly Rin and I of late) refer to as 'Consumer Based Economies'. We have specified suggested that every thing in game (well...most things) be either directly manufactured by players or have a simulated manufacturing process in each station based on the availability of raw materials, sub-components, and proverbial after-market items. Such an economy (coupled with VO's vision of "No place is safe" form of game-play) would generate huge interest across the board, as right now there's little reason to fight for anything, especially resources, space, WHs, etc., outside of vainglorious self-aggrandizing about 'Warranties'.
The fact that it's an idea which has been discussed almost to the point of nausea is why you didn't receive any +1s.
A suggestion: read some of the history in the forums. We've discussed a lot of stuff over the years. Sadly, development takes much longer than the 5 minutes often required to spew an idea or response. For starters, there are major changes required to how stations are handled just to handle the foundational infrastructure for supporting limited availability. Anything else has to follow that. This all shouldn't detract from proposing ideas; just take a little time to see if it's been mentioned before and try to add to that conversation and be mindful that even if something was first mentioned 3-4 years ago, it doesn't mean the Devs are ignoring it or haven't seen it (they're pretty smart people too). It may simply mean they have a length road map of features to develop, and changing that isn't easy.
Hope This Helps.
__________________________________________________________________________________
As to the OP, what you're describing as been discussion a lot over the years. For starters, the stations don't have limited availability on anything. The "high needs" requirements are for window dressing only at the moment. What you're suggesting is akin to what others (particularly Rin and I of late) refer to as 'Consumer Based Economies'. We have specified suggested that every thing in game (well...most things) be either directly manufactured by players or have a simulated manufacturing process in each station based on the availability of raw materials, sub-components, and proverbial after-market items. Such an economy (coupled with VO's vision of "No place is safe" form of game-play) would generate huge interest across the board, as right now there's little reason to fight for anything, especially resources, space, WHs, etc., outside of vainglorious self-aggrandizing about 'Warranties'.
The fact that it's an idea which has been discussed almost to the point of nausea is why you didn't receive any +1s.
A suggestion: read some of the history in the forums. We've discussed a lot of stuff over the years. Sadly, development takes much longer than the 5 minutes often required to spew an idea or response. For starters, there are major changes required to how stations are handled just to handle the foundational infrastructure for supporting limited availability. Anything else has to follow that. This all shouldn't detract from proposing ideas; just take a little time to see if it's been mentioned before and try to add to that conversation and be mindful that even if something was first mentioned 3-4 years ago, it doesn't mean the Devs are ignoring it or haven't seen it (they're pretty smart people too). It may simply mean they have a length road map of features to develop, and changing that isn't easy.
Hope This Helps.
Thank you Keller,
I think ill use my time first to develop a catalog of links to that. By the way does anyone know what kind of programming software is used in the development?
Many programs have variations of variables or switches in them. The coding would be minorly time consuming, rather the communication from each page of coding to the server wpuld be more time consuming, but manageable given the software used.
I think ill use my time first to develop a catalog of links to that. By the way does anyone know what kind of programming software is used in the development?
Many programs have variations of variables or switches in them. The coding would be minorly time consuming, rather the communication from each page of coding to the server wpuld be more time consuming, but manageable given the software used.
Okay, addressing the pay-to-win concern first. Your posts are not what I'd call concise, so correct me if I missed anything, but the gist of it seemed to be that you would use crystal to make manufacturing go faster. People with money to burn would be able to buy crystal and produce faster than other people. I didn't see any mention of limits, so again, correct me if I missed it.
Now, you seemed to argue that since this is a twitch game, the advantage gained isn't enough to matter. But that's untrue (not to mention irrelevant). Yes, direct combat itself would be unimpacted, but people's ability to outfit for battle would be impacted. Furthermore, if economic warfare is to be introduced to the game, it should be just as fair as combat -- not favoring players who happen to be wealthier in real life no matter how insignificant the bonus they can purchase may seem.
I have a firm belief that people's real-world wealth should have as little impact as possible inside a game. There must be a level playing field. I'm willing to accept that some people have very specific interests and would prefer to forego access to parts of the game experience that they don't care about in exchange for a lower cost of playing. I am not able to accept providing unlimited benefit to those who wish to spend more. I don't care how much handwaving you want to do about how minor the benefit is, or how it's outweighed by other things, or how there are diminishing returns. Nor do I care how much money it would put in the devs' pockets. It is wrong. This is, first and foremost, a game. Ideally the only factors involved should be how much skill and effort the individuals playing it wish to devote. It isn't possible to perfectly achieve that, but we should strive for it as much as possible.
Now, as for the real-time training idea, progression through the game should be based on playing the game, not watching the calendar. If there are things a person cannot do yet, the reason should be that the player hasn't achieved some accomplishment, like gathering the resources or defeating a boss or solving a puzzle. The reason should not be that they simply haven't waited long enough yet. That said, I am okay with some things like manufacturing taking time, with the caveat that you should be able to increase your throughput by expanding your operations to involve additional factories.
But a system where you say, "Your character hasn't been trained to fly this ship, so you will have to wait three days real-time and the only thing you can do to accelerate that is to bribe us"? No. That is not a game and is in fact insulting. Thus my less than constructive initial response.
There are a lot of great things about EVE. Their skill system is not one of them.
Now, you seemed to argue that since this is a twitch game, the advantage gained isn't enough to matter. But that's untrue (not to mention irrelevant). Yes, direct combat itself would be unimpacted, but people's ability to outfit for battle would be impacted. Furthermore, if economic warfare is to be introduced to the game, it should be just as fair as combat -- not favoring players who happen to be wealthier in real life no matter how insignificant the bonus they can purchase may seem.
I have a firm belief that people's real-world wealth should have as little impact as possible inside a game. There must be a level playing field. I'm willing to accept that some people have very specific interests and would prefer to forego access to parts of the game experience that they don't care about in exchange for a lower cost of playing. I am not able to accept providing unlimited benefit to those who wish to spend more. I don't care how much handwaving you want to do about how minor the benefit is, or how it's outweighed by other things, or how there are diminishing returns. Nor do I care how much money it would put in the devs' pockets. It is wrong. This is, first and foremost, a game. Ideally the only factors involved should be how much skill and effort the individuals playing it wish to devote. It isn't possible to perfectly achieve that, but we should strive for it as much as possible.
Now, as for the real-time training idea, progression through the game should be based on playing the game, not watching the calendar. If there are things a person cannot do yet, the reason should be that the player hasn't achieved some accomplishment, like gathering the resources or defeating a boss or solving a puzzle. The reason should not be that they simply haven't waited long enough yet. That said, I am okay with some things like manufacturing taking time, with the caveat that you should be able to increase your throughput by expanding your operations to involve additional factories.
But a system where you say, "Your character hasn't been trained to fly this ship, so you will have to wait three days real-time and the only thing you can do to accelerate that is to bribe us"? No. That is not a game and is in fact insulting. Thus my less than constructive initial response.
There are a lot of great things about EVE. Their skill system is not one of them.
Thank you Keller for saying what I'm sure we all feel about "JoylessJoker".
Thank you pizzasgood for articulating what I feel is wrong about OP better than I ever could.
As for you Keller, you are entitled to your own opinions of me. However I suspect it has more to do with different upbringings than me trying to troll. Where I come from, we communicated this way and it wasn't considered arrogant or abnormal. I understand that for some of you, I may seem excessively emotional or brash or whatever. Even within USA, there are many minorities with their own subcultures, along with different preferences for communication. Some people lean towards politeness and indirectness, while others prefer bluntness and not beating around the bush. I'm not going to exert effort to try to adapt to strangers on internet. Instead, I suggest that you take me with a grain of salt and disregard me if you find my posts upsetting.
As for you Keller, you are entitled to your own opinions of me. However I suspect it has more to do with different upbringings than me trying to troll. Where I come from, we communicated this way and it wasn't considered arrogant or abnormal. I understand that for some of you, I may seem excessively emotional or brash or whatever. Even within USA, there are many minorities with their own subcultures, along with different preferences for communication. Some people lean towards politeness and indirectness, while others prefer bluntness and not beating around the bush. I'm not going to exert effort to try to adapt to strangers on internet. Instead, I suggest that you take me with a grain of salt and disregard me if you find my posts upsetting.