Forums » Suggestions
I agree that more manufacturable items, particularly weapons and small ships, should be released to increase activity in the player market.
The system exists in ores perhaps because they are extremely inefficient as a source of credits. Whether sold on the player market or to stations, ores do not yield much profit. Ores are also much easier to get than bot drops, so the potential for much of a market there is low.
The same is not true for bot farmed items. SSS can be farmed, even at maximum, as in really really skilled and practiced efficiency, at maybe 800 units per hour. Without that level of skill and practice, just using the same methods, it would be about 400 units per hour. That's about 2 hours of work just farming SSS for an IBA. Not even including the hauling time here. This kind of grind gives more potential and need for player-to-player trade.
The system exists in ores perhaps because they are extremely inefficient as a source of credits. Whether sold on the player market or to stations, ores do not yield much profit. Ores are also much easier to get than bot drops, so the potential for much of a market there is low.
The same is not true for bot farmed items. SSS can be farmed, even at maximum, as in really really skilled and practiced efficiency, at maybe 800 units per hour. Without that level of skill and practice, just using the same methods, it would be about 400 units per hour. That's about 2 hours of work just farming SSS for an IBA. Not even including the hauling time here. This kind of grind gives more potential and need for player-to-player trade.
"This is a thread about whether the game should "buy" player-created content at some value close to what players randomly attach to it in their heads."
incarnate.. this was not very polite...
The reason we have threads like this is because you have incorporated items into the game that require an amount of work that is not properly represented in station prices. This is based on a price that YOU actually randomly attached in YOUR head... and I might add that you didn't think through the price of these items even the slightest bit at all... the combined price of the components to build these items is grotesquely higher than the price of the completed item, even by your own standard.
These manufactured items were NEVER sold as cheaply as the station prices them, it was a mistake for you to set it that low in the first place. In my opinion this disparity is a BUG and should be posted as such. However this posts offers a solution. The solution is simple, and you know damn well how much those items sell for... but if you want your player base to make a list of prices we all agree on, I know we could all do that as well and I'm sure there won't be much arguing over it.
incarnate.. this was not very polite...
The reason we have threads like this is because you have incorporated items into the game that require an amount of work that is not properly represented in station prices. This is based on a price that YOU actually randomly attached in YOUR head... and I might add that you didn't think through the price of these items even the slightest bit at all... the combined price of the components to build these items is grotesquely higher than the price of the completed item, even by your own standard.
These manufactured items were NEVER sold as cheaply as the station prices them, it was a mistake for you to set it that low in the first place. In my opinion this disparity is a BUG and should be posted as such. However this posts offers a solution. The solution is simple, and you know damn well how much those items sell for... but if you want your player base to make a list of prices we all agree on, I know we could all do that as well and I'm sure there won't be much arguing over it.
I would have to add my 2 cents in here and say selling farmed/hive/manu'd items to a station shouldn't be 0 or extremely low. You manu say an Improved Mineral Scanner, and cant even sell it. You have to give away or dump to space. HFCPCs sell for zero, but they are just shy functionally of a UCPC which is almost impossible to get with low player levels now. Hive Posis and Qgats are some of the better weps in the game and same, worth 0 credits. Processor cores are worth almost nothing, maybe less than 10 creds each.
I just think the OP has some merit and harder to obtain or craftable items should be be able to be sold for a reasonably increased rate from what it is currently. Obviously not 20k per SSS, Artemis/Dentek/Orun core like the player market, but at least something to make it worth the effort to obtain them since it appears increasingly difficult to find players to sell these items to.
+1 to OP
+1 to the auction house /consignment idea
I just think the OP has some merit and harder to obtain or craftable items should be be able to be sold for a reasonably increased rate from what it is currently. Obviously not 20k per SSS, Artemis/Dentek/Orun core like the player market, but at least something to make it worth the effort to obtain them since it appears increasingly difficult to find players to sell these items to.
+1 to OP
+1 to the auction house /consignment idea
A reason why station prices should not even be close to matching player prices has been stated. It kills the player market. IF a system were made which matches station prices with player market prices, it should be rolled out either only at Latos or with the Latos economy expanded everywhere. Otherwise, it's just killing the player market.
To the shop not/consignment/marketplace idea, +1. The chances of someone picking up items lying in space mid transfer are pretty much 0 anywhere outside fog sectors like Latos M7. As for the possibility of fraud, it can be balanced out by the stations taking a significant (say 10%) cut from the credits you recieve in a station-brokered deal.
To the shop not/consignment/marketplace idea, +1. The chances of someone picking up items lying in space mid transfer are pretty much 0 anywhere outside fog sectors like Latos M7. As for the possibility of fraud, it can be balanced out by the stations taking a significant (say 10%) cut from the credits you recieve in a station-brokered deal.
"This is a thread about whether the game should "buy" player-created content at some value close to what players randomly attach to it in their heads."
incarnate.. this was not very polite...
Being blunt, and being impolite, are not always the same thing. I stand by what I said. It wasn't intended to be impolite, but is precisely accurate. It is distilling the issue down to its minimum kernel.
In the muddled mess that are Suggestions discussions, distillation down to the fundamental issue at-stake is of considerable value in re-focusing discussion.
WaF made the example earlier in this thread, that some people ask 15k per SSS, and other people ask 50k, that's a pretty substantial disparity. But, frankly, I've seen player asking-prices fluctuate through some truly bizarre values, which is what makes this entire proposal so problematic.
The reason we have threads like this is because you have incorporated items into the game that require an amount of work that is not properly represented in station prices. This is based on a price that YOU actually randomly attached in YOUR head... and I might add that you didn't think through the price of these items even the slightest bit at all... the combined price of the components to build these items is grotesquely higher than the price of the completed item, even by your own standard.
I never intended for stations to pay some kind of "appropriate" price for player-manufactured goods. The idea here was to inspire and drive a player economy, not to just add more stuff that you could sell to stations. Making it impossible to get value out of selling it to stations is explicitly what would drive people to engage with one another. That was by design, not an "oversight".
Perhaps you don't remember, but there was quite a lengthy period of time, after these manufactured items were first made, when the economy couldn't handle these goods at all ("pricing" was actually impossible). Selling them to the station simply made them vanish. It took quite awhile before things were modified so the stations could handle them. We implemented the goods, knowing that they were not station-tradable at all, because they were intended to be solely player-tradable.
The mechanics of player-trade have not evolved to where I would like, that I can freely admit (which gets into issues like "Consignment", station, economy and trade changes, etc), there were a lot of plans that were substantially deferred for various reasons.
But, the idea that the game itself isn't propping up the player-defined pricing, or that this is some kind of "bug", displays a substantial misunderstanding of how the design worked.. and why we even have a player-economy now.
incarnate.. this was not very polite...
Being blunt, and being impolite, are not always the same thing. I stand by what I said. It wasn't intended to be impolite, but is precisely accurate. It is distilling the issue down to its minimum kernel.
In the muddled mess that are Suggestions discussions, distillation down to the fundamental issue at-stake is of considerable value in re-focusing discussion.
WaF made the example earlier in this thread, that some people ask 15k per SSS, and other people ask 50k, that's a pretty substantial disparity. But, frankly, I've seen player asking-prices fluctuate through some truly bizarre values, which is what makes this entire proposal so problematic.
The reason we have threads like this is because you have incorporated items into the game that require an amount of work that is not properly represented in station prices. This is based on a price that YOU actually randomly attached in YOUR head... and I might add that you didn't think through the price of these items even the slightest bit at all... the combined price of the components to build these items is grotesquely higher than the price of the completed item, even by your own standard.
I never intended for stations to pay some kind of "appropriate" price for player-manufactured goods. The idea here was to inspire and drive a player economy, not to just add more stuff that you could sell to stations. Making it impossible to get value out of selling it to stations is explicitly what would drive people to engage with one another. That was by design, not an "oversight".
Perhaps you don't remember, but there was quite a lengthy period of time, after these manufactured items were first made, when the economy couldn't handle these goods at all ("pricing" was actually impossible). Selling them to the station simply made them vanish. It took quite awhile before things were modified so the stations could handle them. We implemented the goods, knowing that they were not station-tradable at all, because they were intended to be solely player-tradable.
The mechanics of player-trade have not evolved to where I would like, that I can freely admit (which gets into issues like "Consignment", station, economy and trade changes, etc), there were a lot of plans that were substantially deferred for various reasons.
But, the idea that the game itself isn't propping up the player-defined pricing, or that this is some kind of "bug", displays a substantial misunderstanding of how the design worked.. and why we even have a player-economy now.