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Furball, independence, can i have your job of admining the servers?
It would be soo much fun! Tell them "We do not tollerate your behavior"
They spaz...
"Thank you for playing half life and enjoy your ban."
>:)
It would be soo much fun! Tell them "We do not tollerate your behavior"
They spaz...
"Thank you for playing half life and enjoy your ban."
>:)
I'm surprised that you all forgot how much I used to pirate with one "Private Pile" and one "Ku Genin" and personally I'm hurt. The "Red Treasure Hunters Guild" was one of the least known of the pirate "guilds," it was more of a personally joke between us then a real guild, unlike EiG. I think that EiG is a good idea overall but it's pointed in the wrong direction. It's funny that people that are able to do things so morally wrong can get together and manhandle everyone but the "good" people can't get together if their lives depended on it. It seems that a simple tag and some simple rules is all you really need for a "Guild" to from up and achieve that goal. Unfortunately, it's not that easy, it's easy to be evil, it's easy to not care about others, it's easy to hurt other players feelings (sorry I'm being kinda a softy) until your own feelings are hurt, but there is no real way to "pwn" a EiG since they picked the very convenient color of blue to supply their terror upon the masses. Until there is a way to kill a "valk" with a equal ship that is semi fair I see no point for me personally to play the game at all. I'm a "old-school" pirate and I tired to follow some simple ethics to make it so that n00bs weren't completely devastated by me attacking them, if they complained, I would almost always repay them with a bit more to help them along in the game. I don't see how these newer pirates cannot do the same, it's a shame because I would pirate now but every time I kill a trader, I'm blasted by a blue player with a "valk" and they gloat about it for the next five minutes about how I should suck upon their mid-body area. I am personally affronted by this and if I ever get to meet these people, I will meet their mid-body area with my fist in a kinetic fashion.
You know, that's exactly what I was talking about earlier with griefers, FurBall. There are some Vendetta players who don't give a damn about the game and really have no interest in betatesting it either. Sometimes they're honest about it and let us know that they're just bored and that they wanna start something with the people, just as a cheap thrill. While other griefers are more subtle, but their intentions show through by the way they act online. It's a no brainer that someone who repeatedly kills a bus fits into this category, for example.
They're no different than trolls who have no other intent other than to piss people off. It's how they get their laughs, and sometimes how they boost their own self esteem. The sad tihng is some of their victims have gotten warned or muted by guides, when all they were doing were venting their anger against these sort of players. In a way I think the aggressor should be punished too. Unfortunately the Guides were instructed not to act upon in-game actions other than cheating. I seriously think they should look into revising their "rules of engagement."
But for now, one of the things I like to do against these people is to form a squadron of teammates and give 'em a taste of their own medicine (even if it means exploiting). The way they react is priceless. They will either get muted or warned by a Guide for cursing, or they will eventually log off after they repeatedly die off. If the Guides aren't doing anything about it, we'll have to play vigilante sometimes and do it our own way.
They're no different than trolls who have no other intent other than to piss people off. It's how they get their laughs, and sometimes how they boost their own self esteem. The sad tihng is some of their victims have gotten warned or muted by guides, when all they were doing were venting their anger against these sort of players. In a way I think the aggressor should be punished too. Unfortunately the Guides were instructed not to act upon in-game actions other than cheating. I seriously think they should look into revising their "rules of engagement."
But for now, one of the things I like to do against these people is to form a squadron of teammates and give 'em a taste of their own medicine (even if it means exploiting). The way they react is priceless. They will either get muted or warned by a Guide for cursing, or they will eventually log off after they repeatedly die off. If the Guides aren't doing anything about it, we'll have to play vigilante sometimes and do it our own way.
Rrr, it's 2 am and my screen flickers a lot, i read that guys post and well, yah, i concur!
The problem with your solutio arolte, is that you end up killing many innocents. today, several reds were finally able to hold some known griefers/pirates in the 7 station(why two of those EiG people set home there i dont know) but it was readly easy, even trying to station nuke couldnt get them out. I at least held my fire if innocents in the area(sorry for those couple of buses and light fighters that tried to dock while my missles were in the air, but I did warn you via /msg to stay away when i saw you heading in)
besides, knocking dual avalon rags and tri flare valks out of the sky at a range of 1k or so was very enjoyable, and easy for me to avoid nuke retibution.. thanks to those reds that were in buses to knock them into the explosions and keep them from redocking.
this manuver later was effective on theever something or other... who constantly mines and station nukes 7.
really, i think its possible we might have a working plan against them, at least those that home in 7
besides, knocking dual avalon rags and tri flare valks out of the sky at a range of 1k or so was very enjoyable, and easy for me to avoid nuke retibution.. thanks to those reds that were in buses to knock them into the explosions and keep them from redocking.
this manuver later was effective on theever something or other... who constantly mines and station nukes 7.
really, i think its possible we might have a working plan against them, at least those that home in 7
That works. I think we've now reached a point where something must be done, but it's still at the level where we can handle it within the community. This is not to say that a little code-side help would be unappreciated, to the contrary, it would help greatly, and allow us to devote more time to actual play and potential problem-solving. We all have the same goal in mind. So long as we go about acheiving that goal in a way that does not cause more trouble than it's worth, I'm all for it. What we can do, if enough people are willing is get a little of what community we once had back.
Well unfortunately some innocents get in the way of griefer hunting. Most of the time I just compensate them with money if I ever cross paths with the newbie again. But at the very least they should have the common sense not to visit the same sector again after having died near the station. It should also be known that 90% of the time a newbie falls into a nuke or mine trap of mine, I let them know what's up via private message and I warn them not to dock. If they don't listen, it's their fault. Anyway, I thinking griefting a griefer/pirate is worth a lot more than one or two accidental newbie kill. It happens, and it's virtually impossible to avoid, much like friendly fire and civilian casualty incidents in war.
I should also note that with the exploitation of multiple accounts, I find that telling real newbies apart from fake newbies has been very hard recently. There should be some indicator of experience for each person's account, regardless of what character they use. More and more pirates and griefers have been using multiple accounts to cover their identity, and sometimes even go so far as to frame someone by acting like they're being attacked repeatedly. The situation indeed is desperate and has hit all time lows. While the RPG aspects of Vendetta can remain privatized for the protection of individual characters, I still feel that everyone has a right to know whether someone is a true newbie or not.
I should also note that with the exploitation of multiple accounts, I find that telling real newbies apart from fake newbies has been very hard recently. There should be some indicator of experience for each person's account, regardless of what character they use. More and more pirates and griefers have been using multiple accounts to cover their identity, and sometimes even go so far as to frame someone by acting like they're being attacked repeatedly. The situation indeed is desperate and has hit all time lows. While the RPG aspects of Vendetta can remain privatized for the protection of individual characters, I still feel that everyone has a right to know whether someone is a true newbie or not.
I thank you all for keeping this discussion clean. As you know griefers and pirates have been a problem for the past several 3.2 bugfixes. The original point of this post was to direct the devs' attention to it to see if anything could be done.
And thank you furball, I do try my best when I feel strongly about something. (although I really don't like writing 5-paragraph essays during summer break... ugh ^.^)
And thank you furball, I do try my best when I feel strongly about something. (although I really don't like writing 5-paragraph essays during summer break... ugh ^.^)
Celkan, YW.
Ctishman (and others who are not familar with the mind set of the myg0ts, etc).
These folks have the stated (or unstated) goal of ruining everyone else's fun. That is how these folks get their rocks off. Unfortunately, the ONLY way they can be handled is just ban em. Now the devs here are in a better situation to ban people than both Independence and I were in Half life. A) there is ONE server, B) you can't JUST go out and get a new account from the net. You have to actually APPLY for a new one. In HL, getting a new CD key was VERY VERY easy! C) Eventually, this game WILL cost money and I SERIOUSLY doubt these folks will REPEATEDLY spend the cash to get a new account. D) Since we must apply, certain criteria can be put in to handle said apps. IE don't allow apps from free email accounts, etc.
There is no other "in game/community" solution for these folks. The ONLY solution is to limit their ability to play. If you "fix" whatever it is they are exploiting right now to rage the game, they'll find something else. Vendetta has unfortunately gotten up far enough on the game radar for these folks to crawl out of the woodwork and start "playing" in game. All that can be done is meta moderation of these folks. I've seen it too many times in too many online games. :( And frankly, it's a sad commentary about our society as a whole but... that's a whole other conversation. :)
Ctishman (and others who are not familar with the mind set of the myg0ts, etc).
These folks have the stated (or unstated) goal of ruining everyone else's fun. That is how these folks get their rocks off. Unfortunately, the ONLY way they can be handled is just ban em. Now the devs here are in a better situation to ban people than both Independence and I were in Half life. A) there is ONE server, B) you can't JUST go out and get a new account from the net. You have to actually APPLY for a new one. In HL, getting a new CD key was VERY VERY easy! C) Eventually, this game WILL cost money and I SERIOUSLY doubt these folks will REPEATEDLY spend the cash to get a new account. D) Since we must apply, certain criteria can be put in to handle said apps. IE don't allow apps from free email accounts, etc.
There is no other "in game/community" solution for these folks. The ONLY solution is to limit their ability to play. If you "fix" whatever it is they are exploiting right now to rage the game, they'll find something else. Vendetta has unfortunately gotten up far enough on the game radar for these folks to crawl out of the woodwork and start "playing" in game. All that can be done is meta moderation of these folks. I've seen it too many times in too many online games. :( And frankly, it's a sad commentary about our society as a whole but... that's a whole other conversation. :)
I don find it interesting however that none of our new griefers or pirates have come to back up their side of the argument. perhaps they know they have no argument?
I actually have never heard an [EiG] member specifically say that they are out to ruin every one else's fun and to destroy the Vendetta community etc. etc. And now we are talking about banning all [EiG] members? Forgive me, but that seems pretty ridiculous at this point. As far as I know, no member of [EiG] has done anything in game that is any worse than what we have all been guilty of at one point or another. After all, if [EiG] really is out to destroy Vendetta, why would they be playing in the first place? It's a logical paradox.
As I understand it, the purpose of [EiG] is to exploit the game to the furthest extent possible. The ironic thing is, the devs actually want this to be done! The purpose of our testing this game is to find bugs, exploits and the like as well as offer tips about balance and gameplay. The [EiG] guild actually fulfills a somewhat necessary role in this test.
For the same reason, I am strongly against banning pirates. Pirates also fill an economic void in the game, and although I agree that right now most pirates pirate simply for the joy of killing, once the MMORPG rolls around I hope these spacefarers of fortune are around. Can you imagine how old trading would get if there were no danger in it? A diversity of playing styles and professions makes the game more interesting. If there were no pirates, there would be no need for escorts and no need for pirate hunters and Vendetta would be one big sightseeing trip.
Now the above problem that pirates kill simply for pleasure still applies. However, In the current test money and death are virtually meaningless. Once there are real consequences to dying and you actually have to work towards buying a ship I forsee a new breed of pirates emerging, as well as countless other professions.
As I understand it, the purpose of [EiG] is to exploit the game to the furthest extent possible. The ironic thing is, the devs actually want this to be done! The purpose of our testing this game is to find bugs, exploits and the like as well as offer tips about balance and gameplay. The [EiG] guild actually fulfills a somewhat necessary role in this test.
For the same reason, I am strongly against banning pirates. Pirates also fill an economic void in the game, and although I agree that right now most pirates pirate simply for the joy of killing, once the MMORPG rolls around I hope these spacefarers of fortune are around. Can you imagine how old trading would get if there were no danger in it? A diversity of playing styles and professions makes the game more interesting. If there were no pirates, there would be no need for escorts and no need for pirate hunters and Vendetta would be one big sightseeing trip.
Now the above problem that pirates kill simply for pleasure still applies. However, In the current test money and death are virtually meaningless. Once there are real consequences to dying and you actually have to work towards buying a ship I forsee a new breed of pirates emerging, as well as countless other professions.
phaserlight, ive never seen an EiG person pushing any boundries of the game, merely rocket ramming in valks(homed in 4, and ramming in 7) or nuking sector 7 or mining it. please show me how this is exploiting the game to the furthest extent.. last night, an interesting ability was found and people played with it.. trying to see how fast they could spin the ship with no engine/battery, and knocking it into various areas... this one item did more to find bugs then all of EiGs actions have together(that I have been witness to anyway)
also, ive been told by EiG members that they are out to ruin other peoples experience, two EiG in particular, and the main ones I run across.
also, ive been told by EiG members that they are out to ruin other peoples experience, two EiG in particular, and the main ones I run across.
There could be a rare bug that is triggered by excessive amounts of rockets in a sector, they launch TONS of rockets asap.
Also, some might of notcied me ramming, this is because my ibook is going down the drain and i am stuck with my ibook right now, so, careful aiming is out of the question and flying well on my ibook isn't my forte.
Also, some might of notcied me ramming, this is because my ibook is going down the drain and i am stuck with my ibook right now, so, careful aiming is out of the question and flying well on my ibook isn't my forte.
Woah, I'm gone for 1 week and everybody starts a Pirate bashing fest. Pirating is part of the game. Its a method of playing. It should be tolerated (to a certain extent). Thats what roleplaying is, I chose to play the role of a mean and nasty pirate. Most of you are saying that "all" pirates rocket ram and exploit and kill newbies over and over. Well thats not true. There are several honorable pirates out there. Even I have my own code of conduct. 1. Don't pirate anyone under 30k score or in a bus, unless fired upon first. 2. No exploiting unless exploited against. 3. Limit the bad language.
The first post in this thread has some intresting opinions, and was generaly well within the allowed board parameters, but Icarus's name should have been omitted.
EiG does have a few reasons for being created, though I have designed the guild to be rather anarchic and formless, no one gives each others orders. Like most players, I have agendas and plans to achieve them. I feel that putting EiG in the same bucket as cheaters and racists is a bit extreme, as I have seen neither amoungst our ranks.
One of the main reasons I created EiG was to heavily promote the guild idea, and that has been somewhat successful. The lack of being able to add tags to ones name without makeing a new character does hold back recruiment a bit though (stats, reputations). I know if we had tags we would have many many [Vipers]Someonesname roaming the server, proably for the best.
EiG is a tiny group of people, and we are far outnumberd. One thing every member does share is a love of combat, and trust me, with [EiG] on your name, you WILL see combat, mostly with the odds stacked against you.
Now to address the concept of pirateing, as it is we have two things to do in vendetta, trade and fight. After that changes we will proably see a little bit less of the griefers, and after we get some kind kind of reputation system with real consequences we will see many less. Murder counts and timers could force a pirate to only dock in certin stations, like 15, and greatly restrict us. As it is now if and when I die I can jsut hop into a freash valk and be in sector seven within thirty secounds.
Baning grifers is a poor solution to the problem, as it calls for a human judge to watch and ban. This is an investment of time and money that just wont work for a large multiplayer game. Those judges should exist, but only to ban raceist, cheaters, and harrasers. Racisism and harrasment are legal issues I will not get into here. I call things as I see them, and I fully support bad things happening to bad people, within the rules of the coded game. When home sector defenses were beefed up I was one of the first to support the idea and appluad. As deterants come into place, me, or people like me, will be there to find out if they work and how they may be broken. Yes, even the bad guys have thier place in the test.
-Homestar "cannotspeel" Runner, Founder of EiG
EiG does have a few reasons for being created, though I have designed the guild to be rather anarchic and formless, no one gives each others orders. Like most players, I have agendas and plans to achieve them. I feel that putting EiG in the same bucket as cheaters and racists is a bit extreme, as I have seen neither amoungst our ranks.
One of the main reasons I created EiG was to heavily promote the guild idea, and that has been somewhat successful. The lack of being able to add tags to ones name without makeing a new character does hold back recruiment a bit though (stats, reputations). I know if we had tags we would have many many [Vipers]Someonesname roaming the server, proably for the best.
EiG is a tiny group of people, and we are far outnumberd. One thing every member does share is a love of combat, and trust me, with [EiG] on your name, you WILL see combat, mostly with the odds stacked against you.
Now to address the concept of pirateing, as it is we have two things to do in vendetta, trade and fight. After that changes we will proably see a little bit less of the griefers, and after we get some kind kind of reputation system with real consequences we will see many less. Murder counts and timers could force a pirate to only dock in certin stations, like 15, and greatly restrict us. As it is now if and when I die I can jsut hop into a freash valk and be in sector seven within thirty secounds.
Baning grifers is a poor solution to the problem, as it calls for a human judge to watch and ban. This is an investment of time and money that just wont work for a large multiplayer game. Those judges should exist, but only to ban raceist, cheaters, and harrasers. Racisism and harrasment are legal issues I will not get into here. I call things as I see them, and I fully support bad things happening to bad people, within the rules of the coded game. When home sector defenses were beefed up I was one of the first to support the idea and appluad. As deterants come into place, me, or people like me, will be there to find out if they work and how they may be broken. Yes, even the bad guys have thier place in the test.
-Homestar "cannotspeel" Runner, Founder of EiG
>This is an investment of time and money that just wont work for a large multiplayer
>game.
Not if they are volunteers. There are plenty of people who would love to volunteer for such a task. Sounds to me like cembandit is getting a little nervous with all this talk of griefer enforcement. Uh oh!
=)
>game.
Not if they are volunteers. There are plenty of people who would love to volunteer for such a task. Sounds to me like cembandit is getting a little nervous with all this talk of griefer enforcement. Uh oh!
=)
you get rid of 10 griefers and 200 n00bs stay and 12 become great beta testers. hmmm... seems like a good investment to me.
*sigh* Let's NOT go putting words in people's mouths ok? I am not for the WHOLESALE banning of ALL pirates! (Or ANY pirates for that matter!). I am for the wholesale banning of the EiG "clan/guild". Why? Cause they are the myg0t's, 14/88 people of Vendetta. And I say again, their stated/unstated purpose is to ruin the gameplay and fun of everyone else. This can be seen in their actions.
Now, Forum Moderator has posted on another thread that the devs have said that griefing can not be banned for. IMNSHO, it is time for this to change. The same things that allow for easier banning of people ALSO hurt the game. IE if said game ruiners are not banned, there are NO OTHER servers that one can go to to escape them! That is unfortunate. Again, I call upon the developers to reconsider this policy and take CARE of the problem NOW before it grows beyond their ability to take care of it easily.
I speak not just as a player but also as someone who DID run a Half-Life server for almost a year. And I KNOW there are others here who have done the same and have run into the EXACT same problems as I did. In the end, I LEFT Half-Life and shut DOWN my server BECAUSE of these people. I do not want to see history repeat itself again.
P.S.
I also agree with Arolte. When I had my server, I had over 10 admins that helped me run it. That way, I was almost guarenteed 24/7 coverage by admins. This can easily happen in vendetta.
Now, Forum Moderator has posted on another thread that the devs have said that griefing can not be banned for. IMNSHO, it is time for this to change. The same things that allow for easier banning of people ALSO hurt the game. IE if said game ruiners are not banned, there are NO OTHER servers that one can go to to escape them! That is unfortunate. Again, I call upon the developers to reconsider this policy and take CARE of the problem NOW before it grows beyond their ability to take care of it easily.
I speak not just as a player but also as someone who DID run a Half-Life server for almost a year. And I KNOW there are others here who have done the same and have run into the EXACT same problems as I did. In the end, I LEFT Half-Life and shut DOWN my server BECAUSE of these people. I do not want to see history repeat itself again.
P.S.
I also agree with Arolte. When I had my server, I had over 10 admins that helped me run it. That way, I was almost guarenteed 24/7 coverage by admins. This can easily happen in vendetta.
Why CAN'T devs ban anyone... I mean... the test is done free. there's nothing for the person who got banned to complain against Guild. It also says no warranties and stuff... so why can't they ban?
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=2218&page=1
It isn't a matter of "can't". Please go to the above link. I would like to point out here that some of the people who have posted on this thread in favor of banning would have already been banned long ago if the suggestions in this thread were acted upon. We as players have a lot of leeway here. When we start making a bunch of rules to control the actions of a few, everyone loses some freedom. Is it worth it?
It isn't a matter of "can't". Please go to the above link. I would like to point out here that some of the people who have posted on this thread in favor of banning would have already been banned long ago if the suggestions in this thread were acted upon. We as players have a lot of leeway here. When we start making a bunch of rules to control the actions of a few, everyone loses some freedom. Is it worth it?