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I've often thought that creating a surveillance network that is accessible via mission or huge monetary payment or competition (like ctc and n3's) would be a smart idea...
Well, the frequent logout thing does sound pretty sketchy. I've never really been happy with the way VO handles logouts in space anyway. Edit: Moved my suggestion re-logoffs into its own thread.
That said, you should still be able to hunt these guys uninterrupted by sending them a private message periodically. I have not personally verified this, but receiving a PM while the logout counter is ticking is supposed to reset it to like 30 or 60 or something. I assume that it will let you keep resetting it indefinitely. They might be able to work around that by killing the client though.
That said, you should still be able to hunt these guys uninterrupted by sending them a private message periodically. I have not personally verified this, but receiving a PM while the logout counter is ticking is supposed to reset it to like 30 or 60 or something. I assume that it will let you keep resetting it indefinitely. They might be able to work around that by killing the client though.
Yes, but at least then the client cannot be restarted using the plugin. I don't know if continually spamming pm's to a person prevents them from logging out indefinitely, but only resets it to 30 seconds, once.
Which it shouldn't do, it should reset to 30s every time you pm.
Which it shouldn't do, it should reset to 30s every time you pm.
no it shouldnt, that's competely ridiculous
oh no, espionage is getting defensive over his bots, silly me, let's indulge him.
I hate to say I agree with TheRedSpy on this one, but I do.
Do you really want any other player to prevent any other player from logging off just by pressing the hail button over and over?
Once is enough. 30 seconds is enough time to kill any afk ship that isn't a Trident.
Do you really want any other player to prevent any other player from logging off just by pressing the hail button over and over?
Once is enough. 30 seconds is enough time to kill any afk ship that isn't a Trident.
yep, totally, we'll kill a bot that sits 15km out in 30 seconds.
We cannot even reach the stupid thing given the right vector and 225m/s constant. you'll only get 6750m which falls short a good 3000m from radar range!
Dunno what crap you lot are smoking, but sure smells like you don't want this problem to go away.
You can kill the game to force log off, and you can also DOCK. Seriously, how hard is it to get a reasonable balance in this game regarding bots.
You shouldn't be able to log off with someone pm'ing you in the same sector, now that is balanced.
You want to have a safe log off and one that is instant? Go in the station.
We cannot even reach the stupid thing given the right vector and 225m/s constant. you'll only get 6750m which falls short a good 3000m from radar range!
Dunno what crap you lot are smoking, but sure smells like you don't want this problem to go away.
You can kill the game to force log off, and you can also DOCK. Seriously, how hard is it to get a reasonable balance in this game regarding bots.
You shouldn't be able to log off with someone pm'ing you in the same sector, now that is balanced.
You want to have a safe log off and one that is instant? Go in the station.
Wow Kierky, you're like a bad idea machine, lets break all sorts of related functions because bots are so bad, oh look! TRS and ARF are opposed to a stupid change that has nothing specifically to do with bots, they must be EVIL SCIN bot supporters.
While we're at it, why don't we make it so players have to write an essay as to why they should be allowed to log off! Great idea!
Dunno what crap you lot are smoking, but sure smells like you don't want this problem to go away.
As it has already been pointed out, it's not necessarily a problem at all. Player bots have been around for ages, either it's okay to have bots or it isn't.
The real fixes here are unrats, proper faction rules (I.e bots can be booted out of faction stations if members of the faction decide that bot is working against them) and other gameplay improvements, not the crazy borkhammer.
While we're at it, why don't we make it so players have to write an essay as to why they should be allowed to log off! Great idea!
Dunno what crap you lot are smoking, but sure smells like you don't want this problem to go away.
As it has already been pointed out, it's not necessarily a problem at all. Player bots have been around for ages, either it's okay to have bots or it isn't.
The real fixes here are unrats, proper faction rules (I.e bots can be booted out of faction stations if members of the faction decide that bot is working against them) and other gameplay improvements, not the crazy borkhammer.
Yeah, I don't see any reason why people shouldn't be able to be prevented from logging off when they're floating in space. Want to log off easily? Dock your ass.
Sorry if that interferes with your ability to logouts to avoid being shot, cupcake.
Name one legitimate activity it would interfere with.
Sorry if that interferes with your ability to logouts to avoid being shot, cupcake.
Name one legitimate activity it would interfere with.
"As it has already been pointed out, it's not necessarily a problem at all."
You're actually being serious. Haha. Totally nothing wrong with 36 bots spying on the 36 most traveled by locations. and FREE of CHARGE. Not to mention finding them is arduous.
Go and pay for them like everyone else.
And stop abusing the 6 characters.
You're actually being serious. Haha. Totally nothing wrong with 36 bots spying on the 36 most traveled by locations. and FREE of CHARGE. Not to mention finding them is arduous.
Go and pay for them like everyone else.
And stop abusing the 6 characters.
Stopping people from logging off is incredibly abuseable, suddenly logging off in space is not a legitimate thing to be able to do anymore? Lets not even get into the implications of how it would interact with the tempKOS or conquerable station systems, or how you can prevent someone from logging off when theyre docked in a trident and the trident logs off. Or how trident log offs count as station log offs.
It's a bad suggestion. The simple fact is we have lite subs, and that means that for $36 dollars a month someone can put full time monitoring on all the stations in greyspace. It's not a very expensive price for anybody to be able to do it. Why is everyone so worked up about wormhole sectors? the station sector bots can't even be destroyed!
Keep barking demands like an idiot kierky, I feel overwhelmingly obliged to listen to them and do everything you say!
It's a bad suggestion. The simple fact is we have lite subs, and that means that for $36 dollars a month someone can put full time monitoring on all the stations in greyspace. It's not a very expensive price for anybody to be able to do it. Why is everyone so worked up about wormhole sectors? the station sector bots can't even be destroyed!
Keep barking demands like an idiot kierky, I feel overwhelmingly obliged to listen to them and do everything you say!
What I am annoyed by is that they are allegedly abusing the ability to log in and out in conjunction with distance to be unnecessarily onerous to locate. Just like what annoyed me about the previous generation of spybots was that they abused the (former) ability to spy on the sector from hundreds of km away to be completely impractical to locate.
Yes, the unkillable nature of station-based bots also annoys me, but so does the unkillable nature of station-based humans and stations in general. The difference is that stations can be avoided more easily. Monitoring them only tells you what system I'm in at the moment. It quickly becomes out of date. Monitoring wormholes lets you become a lot more sure about whether a person has left the area and which way they are heading.
Nobody is asking to make logging off in space impossible. Only for it to either be dangerous (my "leave the ship drifting thread") or possible to prevent when in the same sector (kierky and my thoughts in here).
If you want to log off without disruption or risk, either do it in a station, or shake any pursuers and then do it in an empty sector.
Logging off in space with hostile people around should be difficult or dangerous.
Yes, the unkillable nature of station-based bots also annoys me, but so does the unkillable nature of station-based humans and stations in general. The difference is that stations can be avoided more easily. Monitoring them only tells you what system I'm in at the moment. It quickly becomes out of date. Monitoring wormholes lets you become a lot more sure about whether a person has left the area and which way they are heading.
Nobody is asking to make logging off in space impossible. Only for it to either be dangerous (my "leave the ship drifting thread") or possible to prevent when in the same sector (kierky and my thoughts in here).
If you want to log off without disruption or risk, either do it in a station, or shake any pursuers and then do it in an empty sector.
Logging off in space with hostile people around should be difficult or dangerous.
And what happens when someone logs in on another alt while the other account is still logged on? should they be made to wait until someone stops spamming them with PM's? should they be able to switch alts and go and kill themselves for free pks?
It's a poorly thought out draconian way of solving a much larger problem.
What's the point in getting rid of wormhole bots when people will just put them in more stations instead? The difference between a wormhole bot and a station bot isn't much especially when there are stations at all the significant wormholes anyway.
Did you know before they instituted the fix that Rhandome Mynah was exploiting to log off instantly against pirates that it was technically possible to chain clients together with a macro and flash ships in space for 1 second. If the SCIN bot operator knew this they would theoretically be able to put a wormhole bot literally sitting on the wormhole and nobody could kill it because it would be in and gone before you could turn your ship. You would have to use TU minefields to kill it.
This thread is an absolute non issue. Some whiney carebears don't like to be monitored, more whiney carebears chime in that they also don't like to be monitored. What's new. If this problem is going to be solved then it will be done so with unrats to patrol the wormhole sectors so people can't just sit there and proper control over stations so owners of factions can boot people out of stations who shouldn't be there (like enemy bots or people who abuse the faction system).
It's a poorly thought out draconian way of solving a much larger problem.
What's the point in getting rid of wormhole bots when people will just put them in more stations instead? The difference between a wormhole bot and a station bot isn't much especially when there are stations at all the significant wormholes anyway.
Did you know before they instituted the fix that Rhandome Mynah was exploiting to log off instantly against pirates that it was technically possible to chain clients together with a macro and flash ships in space for 1 second. If the SCIN bot operator knew this they would theoretically be able to put a wormhole bot literally sitting on the wormhole and nobody could kill it because it would be in and gone before you could turn your ship. You would have to use TU minefields to kill it.
This thread is an absolute non issue. Some whiney carebears don't like to be monitored, more whiney carebears chime in that they also don't like to be monitored. What's new. If this problem is going to be solved then it will be done so with unrats to patrol the wormhole sectors so people can't just sit there and proper control over stations so owners of factions can boot people out of stations who shouldn't be there (like enemy bots or people who abuse the faction system).
"And what happens when someone logs in on another alt while the other account is still logged on? should they be made to wait until someone stops spamming them with PM's? should they be able to switch alts and go and kill themselves for free pks?"
Sure, why not let them kill themselves? PKs are meaningless. So they jump through a bunch of hoops to exploit it to get rails and hunter-busses a little easier, big deal. Besides, the game could simply neglect to count PKs when the victim is a character owned by the same account as the killer, and then there is no issue.
"The difference between a wormhole bot and a station bot isn't much especially when there are stations at all the significant wormholes anyway."
Wrong. I can travel from Helios to Edras without encountering a station. You can also reach every UIT system without passing through a station if you enter via Azek.
Sure, why not let them kill themselves? PKs are meaningless. So they jump through a bunch of hoops to exploit it to get rails and hunter-busses a little easier, big deal. Besides, the game could simply neglect to count PKs when the victim is a character owned by the same account as the killer, and then there is no issue.
"The difference between a wormhole bot and a station bot isn't much especially when there are stations at all the significant wormholes anyway."
Wrong. I can travel from Helios to Edras without encountering a station. You can also reach every UIT system without passing through a station if you enter via Azek.
/me shrugs, it's still only half a solution
Of course. There are already threads about attacking stations and such, so I feel no need to discuss it here. There are already threads about NPC pirates, so I feel no need to discuss that here either.
Besides, why would unrats magically handle the situation of people logging in-and-out while beyond radar range any better than a human? The only reason would be if they cheated, and I am opposed to NPCs that cheat.
Besides, why would unrats magically handle the situation of people logging in-and-out while beyond radar range any better than a human? The only reason would be if they cheated, and I am opposed to NPCs that cheat.
Because the bots are just as easy to find as a normal bot, it just takes longer and most people don't have the patience to achieve it. An unrat has unlimited patience.
The problem of bots monitoring wormholes isn't solveable anyway in the current game.
Okay so you make it so bots can't logoff, instead they will just design a script to un-dock from the station and automatically navigate to the wormhole sector and 15k out of the way.
If you kill them so what? it's a bot it doesn't have feelings it can just come back again and again. Sure, you've killed it off the wormhole sector but its already given your location away and people will know you're there now.
If you introduce unrats though, they can use their magical NPC voodoo powers to automatically locate the bot and kill it regardless of the range. But of course the carebears can't have this! Space isn't allowed to be dangerous!
Oh right, I skipped over the part where you said that you were opposed to NPC's that cheat. Well I would definitely pay to play a space game designed by you Rin, but in this space game they do cheat and bots exist, regardless of what people are for or against.
The problem of bots monitoring wormholes isn't solveable anyway in the current game.
Okay so you make it so bots can't logoff, instead they will just design a script to un-dock from the station and automatically navigate to the wormhole sector and 15k out of the way.
If you kill them so what? it's a bot it doesn't have feelings it can just come back again and again. Sure, you've killed it off the wormhole sector but its already given your location away and people will know you're there now.
If you introduce unrats though, they can use their magical NPC voodoo powers to automatically locate the bot and kill it regardless of the range. But of course the carebears can't have this! Space isn't allowed to be dangerous!
Oh right, I skipped over the part where you said that you were opposed to NPC's that cheat. Well I would definitely pay to play a space game designed by you Rin, but in this space game they do cheat and bots exist, regardless of what people are for or against.
The only reason I am still skimming this thread is because I fully expect TRS to rage-quit again, and I don't want to miss the hilarity.
To help me not miss the hilarity, I ask that anyone rage-quitting please put any rage-quitting related text in bold.
Thank you in advance,
Trollstalk.
To help me not miss the hilarity, I ask that anyone rage-quitting please put any rage-quitting related text in bold.
Thank you in advance,
Trollstalk.
Why would I rage quit? the bots aren't mine. I hope bots get banned entirely i'm over the TGFT bots in all the conquerable stations and in initros o12.
Well there you have it folks. TRS votes that the bots be banned.
+1 to banning these bots. They're clearly unethical for gameplay.
+1 to banning these bots. They're clearly unethical for gameplay.