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Been playing for a few days and looking to PvP. So far every player I've run into who had flares hits me with every flare he fires, no misses. Am I dodging them wrong? Since they have a big hitbox and are slow, I tend to strafe in one direction away from the flare until it passes me by (except that that never happens, it always hits me no matter how far away I've strafed).
Here's a short recording of what I'm experiencing, am I doing it wrong? The flare seems to be very far from me when it explodes, yet it still hits me somehow. They seem very overpowered and I can't even buy my own since they seem to require much higher levels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL3EHrsgKgE&feature=youtu.be
Is this normal? Is this how it was supposed to be? Where am I going wrong?
Here's a short recording of what I'm experiencing, am I doing it wrong? The flare seems to be very far from me when it explodes, yet it still hits me somehow. They seem very overpowered and I can't even buy my own since they seem to require much higher levels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL3EHrsgKgE&feature=youtu.be
Is this normal? Is this how it was supposed to be? Where am I going wrong?
Flares use a prox fuse so they are very hard to dodge and some guys fire them point blank making it almost impossible. The technique is called rocket ramming i believe and is frowned on by some players as it lack any real skill or style to use. The best choice is to not let them close in on you and shoot at them from a ways away or try some gats if you really want to test your nerve...
My advice when you know you are facing flares, apart from ignoring PaKettle is simply this. Pretend your ship is 10x the size it really is, and aim to never be directly in front of your target unless you are within 100m. And by within I mean less-than, flares have a saftey-prox these days of about 75m to 95m depending on the flare (and have done for at least 10 years) so try to get inside it and nail them when they cannot hit you. Most flare users are keen to this trick but is is still worth a shot if you get the chance, otherwise try to fool your target into thinking they are going to hit you, try close in (but not too close) and change strafe direction at the last moment and back away as soon as you see them fire.
This annoys most flare users (like Blaqk) and they will end up running out of flares and running away (like Blaqk) and then they might call you names like "back roller" but be assured! You can ignore this and you can pat yourself on the back because even if you didn't score a kill, you still won the fight.
[edit]
oh yeah, and learn2count. they are ammo based.
[edit 2]
I cannot see much from your short video, but it seems to me like you are treating players like bots. I reckon most energy users might make quick work of you too. To continue on my advice, which I don't normally bother giving out is learn to pattern-dodge. By this, I simply mean change strafe direction a lot, but never ever strafe back upon yourself. Strafe Up, Left, Down, Left, Up. Keep these movements random but NEVER strafe UP to DOWN, or LEFT to RIGHT, or you will find yourself a sitting duck. Also learn to fly without flight assist, it is good to have it, but you can really pull some power strafes and reverse thrust much easier with it off.
[edit 3 - for greenwall]
Also this isn't a bug, more general?
This annoys most flare users (like Blaqk) and they will end up running out of flares and running away (like Blaqk) and then they might call you names like "back roller" but be assured! You can ignore this and you can pat yourself on the back because even if you didn't score a kill, you still won the fight.
[edit]
oh yeah, and learn2count. they are ammo based.
[edit 2]
I cannot see much from your short video, but it seems to me like you are treating players like bots. I reckon most energy users might make quick work of you too. To continue on my advice, which I don't normally bother giving out is learn to pattern-dodge. By this, I simply mean change strafe direction a lot, but never ever strafe back upon yourself. Strafe Up, Left, Down, Left, Up. Keep these movements random but NEVER strafe UP to DOWN, or LEFT to RIGHT, or you will find yourself a sitting duck. Also learn to fly without flight assist, it is good to have it, but you can really pull some power strafes and reverse thrust much easier with it off.
[edit 3 - for greenwall]
Also this isn't a bug, more general?
Thanks for the feedback both of you. That helps a lot.
The reason I uploaded that video was just to show the range of the flare explosion, which I thought was excessive. Perhaps I should have uploaded a longer one for you to see what I should improve in general in my combat.
Thanks for the tips on dodging flares, got to try that out :)
Didn't know they had an ammo capacity, what's the total? (edit: got it on wiki)
I am aware of pattern-dodging but I should focus more on it, much to improve.
Reason I was using flight-assist is because it means having more thrusters active at a time (when it tries to correct your direction back to origin). I suppose the advantages of turning it off are higher then, I'll try that.
Only played for a few days but really loving this game, thanks for the help ;)
As for the forum section, I didn't know exactly where "Help for Newbies" should go, and the Bugs section has "ask for help and input" in its description.
The reason I uploaded that video was just to show the range of the flare explosion, which I thought was excessive. Perhaps I should have uploaded a longer one for you to see what I should improve in general in my combat.
Thanks for the tips on dodging flares, got to try that out :)
Didn't know they had an ammo capacity, what's the total? (edit: got it on wiki)
I am aware of pattern-dodging but I should focus more on it, much to improve.
Reason I was using flight-assist is because it means having more thrusters active at a time (when it tries to correct your direction back to origin). I suppose the advantages of turning it off are higher then, I'll try that.
Only played for a few days but really loving this game, thanks for the help ;)
As for the forum section, I didn't know exactly where "Help for Newbies" should go, and the Bugs section has "ask for help and input" in its description.
This should probably be in General (I may move it later on).
When antibody launches his flare, you are pretty much dead center in his firing solution; there may not have been much you could have done about it at that point (the idea is not to get there in the first place).
I believe you will have access to practice flares at the capitol; they don't do actual damage but will let you see what it is like aiming and hitting with them. Even if you are on the Free To Play tier, you can get actual flares in Greyspace (see Corvus).
There are some general tips on PvP in the wiki, including facing flares:
http://vo-wiki.com/wiki/Player_VS._Player#Techniques (note this page has a lot of opinions which are up for debate)
You will learn their proximity radius over time, such that it becomes more like dodging a sphere. As you become more advanced you may also learn to count flares, so that you have a running tally of how many flares your opponent has left.
When antibody launches his flare, you are pretty much dead center in his firing solution; there may not have been much you could have done about it at that point (the idea is not to get there in the first place).
I believe you will have access to practice flares at the capitol; they don't do actual damage but will let you see what it is like aiming and hitting with them. Even if you are on the Free To Play tier, you can get actual flares in Greyspace (see Corvus).
There are some general tips on PvP in the wiki, including facing flares:
http://vo-wiki.com/wiki/Player_VS._Player#Techniques (note this page has a lot of opinions which are up for debate)
You will learn their proximity radius over time, such that it becomes more like dodging a sphere. As you become more advanced you may also learn to count flares, so that you have a running tally of how many flares your opponent has left.
Thanks for the info. Sorry for putting this in the wrong section, had no idea where it should go.
I've seen the wiki page but I still couldn't dodge the flares, so I was beginning to wonder if I was just lagging.
I'll try out the accessible flares and see how they work, thanks!
Off-topic but still a newb question:
How does the game calculate hits? Does it depend on what I see or what my opponent sees?
I've seen the wiki page but I still couldn't dodge the flares, so I was beginning to wonder if I was just lagging.
I'll try out the accessible flares and see how they work, thanks!
Off-topic but still a newb question:
How does the game calculate hits? Does it depend on what I see or what my opponent sees?
I don't think you are lagging; at least it doesn't look that way from the short video. You'll have to get an answer about how the game calculates hits from a name in red, I think.
One last thing I wanted to add is that if you yourself equip flares, sometimes when you reach a point where you know you are going to get hit you can also launch a flare to cancel any net gain in health for your opponent. It becomes a very tricky game.
One last thing I wanted to add is that if you yourself equip flares, sometimes when you reach a point where you know you are going to get hit you can also launch a flare to cancel any net gain in health for your opponent. It becomes a very tricky game.
Hmm interesting...
Okay, I hope a dev answers my question about latency. I'm playing with around 250ms so I'm wondering how much of a disadvantage do I have against others.
Thanks Phaserlight, I think all the response so far answers my main question in this thread.
Okay, I hope a dev answers my question about latency. I'm playing with around 250ms so I'm wondering how much of a disadvantage do I have against others.
Thanks Phaserlight, I think all the response so far answers my main question in this thread.
Keep these movements random but NEVER strafe UP to DOWN, or LEFT to RIGHT, or you will find yourself a sitting duck.
Generally true, but not always. You can get away doing this with the ultra-light ships with strong directional thrust. Corvult, revCs, etc, especially when only equipped with light blasters (cwm, ravens, etc)
You will learn their proximity radius over time, such that it becomes more like dodging a sphere.
That's a pretty good description of what flares really are. They are slow moving spheres. Easily dodged from a distance, so they are mostly used in close quarters.
In short, flares are what impatient, lazy, and insecure players use when they don't want to be made fun for using swarms.
Real men use ravens. Grow up already, flare jocks.
Generally true, but not always. You can get away doing this with the ultra-light ships with strong directional thrust. Corvult, revCs, etc, especially when only equipped with light blasters (cwm, ravens, etc)
You will learn their proximity radius over time, such that it becomes more like dodging a sphere.
That's a pretty good description of what flares really are. They are slow moving spheres. Easily dodged from a distance, so they are mostly used in close quarters.
In short, flares are what impatient, lazy, and insecure players use when they don't want to be made fun for using swarms.
Real men use ravens. Grow up already, flare jocks.
Lonespark, the game calculates hits based on what the server sees. Because of this, both the latency of you and the latency of your opponent play a role in what you see vs what actually happens. At 250 m/s you are at a disadvantage against most experienced people. As discussed elsewhere a latency of 125 m/s offers the best for most people (yes, latencies lower than 125 can actually be a disadvantage).
As others have said, the distance you are being hit from those flares is normal. It's possible that you might see them even farther away and still be hit, depending on the latencies of you and your opponent. In fact, the more you play, you will likely also experience shooting directly through someone's hull and not causing them any damage (and then you have to try ascertain where their ship actually is in the emptiness of space and shoot at it *there*... takes a while to figure out).
Long has been discussed some type of indicator for latency of other players to help gauge your interaction, but it has yet to be implemented. In the interim, which is likely forever, I would suggest just throwing yourself constantly into PVP, especially with more experienced people (like antibody) and eventually, through many many deaths and strained wrists, you will get better.
Nice to see you are thinking of me, yoda.
Good luck.
As others have said, the distance you are being hit from those flares is normal. It's possible that you might see them even farther away and still be hit, depending on the latencies of you and your opponent. In fact, the more you play, you will likely also experience shooting directly through someone's hull and not causing them any damage (and then you have to try ascertain where their ship actually is in the emptiness of space and shoot at it *there*... takes a while to figure out).
Long has been discussed some type of indicator for latency of other players to help gauge your interaction, but it has yet to be implemented. In the interim, which is likely forever, I would suggest just throwing yourself constantly into PVP, especially with more experienced people (like antibody) and eventually, through many many deaths and strained wrists, you will get better.
Nice to see you are thinking of me, yoda.
Good luck.
Yoda can't dodge my flares so you can ignore him, he's got it 100% backwards.
It's a pretty simple dance of becoming a mirror of your enemies vector, leaving the only thought to dodging incoming fire and distance control. You need to almost simulate or visualize how a flare flies when thrown while doing certain maneuvers(At the start when both players turbo at each other is normally where the first pair is tossed)
Whatever you do don't turn and turbo away like Yoda, you end up just eating tons of flares on your rear end/side hull.
A great way to practice with flares is try to strafe while landing consecutive hits on an asteroid, until you have a firm grasp of the physics, then move forward to assault class NPC's, and then apply what you learn against players who normally kill you without much/any effort.
Your sunflares velocity + your forward velocity + your enemies forward velocity = 100%(or damn near) hit ratio, but it comes at a cost of the tendency to create backsplash damage when using this flightstyle without much experience.
Sunflares are more of shield than a sword, players such as Sieger, FBP, Westie, Yoda, Niki, use sunflares as an option to create an advantage in a battle where normally a light ship could not fight up-close and personal against ships like the SCP or TungTaur for example by being able to make an effective impact and throw off the heavy weight associated with high armor.
Once you master flares, autoaim weapons become second nature due to the extreme amount of skill required to control your distance without rolling(which is useless rotation and waste of overall speed) you will learn how to react to the slightest correction to your enemies flight path or end up catching three sunflares to the face(and end up caught in a juggle/flare net)
To condense the above.
Stay in front of your enemy.
Dictate the distance of the engagement via turbo and reverse
Turn off F/A
Maintain your strafing speed as high as possible at all times
Do not touch the roll controls other than to level yourself with your enemy ship at a safe distance
Separate your weapon groupings to increase weapon handling
Oh, and if there's a mobile platform on a wireless connection in the mix there will normally be lots of jumping around, skipping, energy/flares thrown ahead of where the player is shown on screen or even invisible. If you don't see things like this, then it isn't lag.
It's a pretty simple dance of becoming a mirror of your enemies vector, leaving the only thought to dodging incoming fire and distance control. You need to almost simulate or visualize how a flare flies when thrown while doing certain maneuvers(At the start when both players turbo at each other is normally where the first pair is tossed)
Whatever you do don't turn and turbo away like Yoda, you end up just eating tons of flares on your rear end/side hull.
A great way to practice with flares is try to strafe while landing consecutive hits on an asteroid, until you have a firm grasp of the physics, then move forward to assault class NPC's, and then apply what you learn against players who normally kill you without much/any effort.
Your sunflares velocity + your forward velocity + your enemies forward velocity = 100%(or damn near) hit ratio, but it comes at a cost of the tendency to create backsplash damage when using this flightstyle without much experience.
Sunflares are more of shield than a sword, players such as Sieger, FBP, Westie, Yoda, Niki, use sunflares as an option to create an advantage in a battle where normally a light ship could not fight up-close and personal against ships like the SCP or TungTaur for example by being able to make an effective impact and throw off the heavy weight associated with high armor.
Once you master flares, autoaim weapons become second nature due to the extreme amount of skill required to control your distance without rolling(which is useless rotation and waste of overall speed) you will learn how to react to the slightest correction to your enemies flight path or end up catching three sunflares to the face(and end up caught in a juggle/flare net)
To condense the above.
Stay in front of your enemy.
Dictate the distance of the engagement via turbo and reverse
Turn off F/A
Maintain your strafing speed as high as possible at all times
Do not touch the roll controls other than to level yourself with your enemy ship at a safe distance
Separate your weapon groupings to increase weapon handling
Oh, and if there's a mobile platform on a wireless connection in the mix there will normally be lots of jumping around, skipping, energy/flares thrown ahead of where the player is shown on screen or even invisible. If you don't see things like this, then it isn't lag.
lots of jumping around, skipping, energy/flares thrown ahead of where the player is shown on screen or even invisible. If you don't see things like this, then it isn't lag.
[removed a personal accusation of cheating -Phaserlight; this sort of thing belongs in a support ticket]
[removed a personal accusation of cheating -Phaserlight; this sort of thing belongs in a support ticket]
[removed response to accusation of cheating -Phaserlight]
The reason I entered the highest tier of PVP this game has to offer so seemingly without effort is because I went out of my way to make as many enemies as possible and to constantly be in front of the best and brightest pilots on PC this game has to offer.
Anybody with an ounce of actual "skill" already knows that.
I am a product of my environment, which is Sedina B-8
EDIT: I have like 55-72 ping consistently from a eth0 US east coast broadband connection on a substantial PC, I don't lag lol
The reason I entered the highest tier of PVP this game has to offer so seemingly without effort is because I went out of my way to make as many enemies as possible and to constantly be in front of the best and brightest pilots on PC this game has to offer.
Anybody with an ounce of actual "skill" already knows that.
I am a product of my environment, which is Sedina B-8
EDIT: I have like 55-72 ping consistently from a eth0 US east coast broadband connection on a substantial PC, I don't lag lol
Thanks for the info and advice ;) Seems I'm on the right track and just gotta get used to it all. Can't help feeling that pvp would be better without them flares tho XD
As for the latency unfortunately I can't improve it any further, just currently in a bad location on the world map.
As for the latency unfortunately I can't improve it any further, just currently in a bad location on the world map.
You're welcome LoneSpark.
@JJ
Name a single pilot I can't kill consistently lol.
@acu
That's not my problem. Just correcting the record
[removed response to sarcastic put-down -Phaserlight]
@JJ
Name a single pilot I can't kill consistently lol.
@acu
That's not my problem. Just correcting the record
[removed response to sarcastic put-down -Phaserlight]
Not to derail this thread any further, but to be fair Blaqk did get quite good. It was quite a surprise for me the first time he made my little hog explode. And I know I'm not one of the best PvPers out there, mainly due to my lack of patience, but I have fought just about every so-called "pro" over the years so do consider myself a good judge on who is good and who really isn't all that.
I highly doubt the people who say Sieger used Blaqks character, or did until you just made this statement "Sieger has never used my account "Mi5" and I welcome the developers to confirm this statement with a simple crosscheck" - seems rather tightly worded, just sayin! If Sieger was indeed using the character Blaqk thou, he was doing a great job of toning down his ability. Blaqk may have gotten "good", but I would not say it is anywhere near the levels of Shape, or Ghost or even Bojan. When I fight him with Yoda, I tend to just run head on at him and get shot a lot, but the amount of times he has ran away from my "relatives" calling me a back roller is just sooo damned funny!
I highly doubt the people who say Sieger used Blaqks character, or did until you just made this statement "Sieger has never used my account "Mi5" and I welcome the developers to confirm this statement with a simple crosscheck" - seems rather tightly worded, just sayin! If Sieger was indeed using the character Blaqk thou, he was doing a great job of toning down his ability. Blaqk may have gotten "good", but I would not say it is anywhere near the levels of Shape, or Ghost or even Bojan. When I fight him with Yoda, I tend to just run head on at him and get shot a lot, but the amount of times he has ran away from my "relatives" calling me a back roller is just sooo damned funny!
Stay on topic gents. No ad homs, please. Off-topic posts will be removed when I (or another mod) get to them.
Don't try to get 'inside' the safety fuse of flares. It doesn't work reliably and it makes you super easy to hit with other weapons like hats and Gauss.
Getting inside the safety range is only advisable if you're confident that your firepower > their remaining firepower, and that you're skilled enough to hit them as much as they're going to be hitting you.