Right, it isn't cool, so what do we do to make it stop?

How about some sort of informal intraguild council? Or at least a recognized means of communications?

Me sighs...

Honour is a concept on which I have given up. I will try to conduct myself in the way I want to be threated by anybody else. And I hope I am regarded as someone who is liked nd considered honourable but nothing more.

However there will always be people that play this game in another fashion. Unfortunately sometimes taking away the fun from somebody else. Aka: some people like pirates, other people can't stand them... some people think pirates are so annoying by making them redo a repettetive task ad nauseum. For others it adds a sense of danger and competence. We are after all different.

And unfortunately this is the reason why it is IMPOSSIBLE to enforce standards, even with pressure of the community. My days in alpha and beta have made that abundantly clear. Just remember the amount of griefing, creating anti griefing squads creating more griefers since there were always innocent bystanders that got caught in the frey creating a resentment. Not to mention some of my students going from the honourable path (that I was trying to learn them) to the evil one since that made them rule which gave them a sense of accomplishement and increased their funness factor.

And as long as people themselves don't realise that what they are doing is considered to be unfun then nothing will change.

Since I can remember newbies/vets using swarms, running from fights, abusing hostile/non-hostile status, rocketspamming, rocketramming and be looked down upon by the so called aces. But if you hten come back a couple months later, these so called newbies matured and all of a sudden complain about the same thing they did themselves since now its stealing some of their fun.

This just proves that everything depends on your opinions about what fun is and seeing as we all are unique beings (I have never seen another Rene in france/belgium or even England), we just got to keep this in the back of our minds.

And not overreact when we do encounter it, just ignore them or let their own kind blow themselves up. It works. Since its the law: right of the fittest which is and will always be a dynamic process.

cheers

Amen brother.

There are only so many arbitrary changes in the game mechanics that can be made before the game is suddenly too restrictive for anyone to enjoy. In any community there will be an anti-social element. The more restrictive things become, the more people join the revolt. Communities must change from within, starting with attitudes. If you want to see a change in the community, begin with yourself. Don't overreact and make undesirable behavior more entertaining. Don't antagonize people into these behaviors. Don't berate those who don't comply with your views, but don't include them either.

Martin: "Yes BLAK has standards and we try to stick to them."

Can you state some of these standards?

I think I sort of "get" you, but not some of your guildmates. So I find I can't use you as a standard of model BLAK behaviour.

I traveled through B8 a few weeks ago when very few people were online. B8 was empty so I took a moment to scan some of the rocks there, found some denic and started mining. A bit later a BLAK came in. I decided to wait for the eventual hail and work out a deal. Instead... Boom. I asked in a /msg why no talk and was told not to expect it, thanks for the denic. So I learned something.

--Harpo :)

That was me, and along the same lines as why we don't hail Moths. We're only after the cargo. Though, in hindsight, asking you to just drop your cargo and move away might have been nicer.

Don't run from stuff you start.

That's the main one but there are a few others. However some of these others regularly get bent for various reasons. Example: If Serpentine is on I'll chase him and target him only. This would be classed as griefing but he's aware that I will and knows why. He's also one of the only players I'll do it to. A lot of it comes down to the player who's targetted.

However we're still pirates and mining in grey space is a risky business. Hailing is not a requirement, most of us do it out of consideration.

However as I said, standards isn't what I'm concerned about. What annoys me is a lack of consideration for other players outside of the roleplaying. Calling people names, lying, unwillingness to own up for what you do, that is what I take issue with. Personal attacks on other players is not cool.

But hey, I guess if the player in question is an alpha they should be allowed to. I mean they're obviously so much better than the rest of us poor saps.

I've been thinking on this a lot lately, especially in wake of recent forum activity; and am currently near to announcing my own small token gesture... . .

BLAK likes to keep for the most our rules to our selfs. As in our line of work we will have to bend the rules, so by not telling them to any one but our selfs we avoid any finger pointing.

And then the is the fact that we are the bad guys.... ;)

I wish people would just do a search for "honor" and get their fix of pointless arguing so that we wouldn't have to go through all this unpleasantness every 2 months or so.

Thurisaz: stick it out. This is a cyclical thing.

Exactly Borb! and as Vipers have their policy publicly available, so they free to pick apart every action they have committed.

Players, Traders, CtCers and the like, listen not to the BLAK propaganda. You may hear issues against us (on chan 100 and forum), and pirates willingly demote our honor. The issues will be small and blown out of proportion, and the cases they speak about are few and far inbetween. They will call us pirates, runners and what not. We have our rules and we stick by them. We are only human and make mistakes, but you wont see them much. Stay strong and let the pirates weap. Even though the majority of the pirates (Black Lance,) have altered their agenda (to heaven knows what,) they are still pirates. And they will take with out asking.

One Viper may run one day due a small track pad and horrible ping, and the Viper guild is labled as runners. I promiss you, If you see a Viper run, there is a reason behind it. Vipers willing sacrafice so much for the saftey of traders (for me it's about 560 deaths to pirates so far.) But it is for the good of the whole.

We can discuss to days end about honor, but i will have none of that. Mistakes can happen, and people loose their cool (i know i have at some points.) But at such times, please give some slack. When we fight about horonable actions, we don't seem to play.

I will stick to my goals and i seek to carry them out, with honor and respect and sholder to sholder with my guild.

honor..i like to think i am honorable but diffrent people have diffent codes of honor,so it is hard to tell if someone is honarable or not since they may stick rigedly to their own code but be by someone's opion on honor be unhonarable.

i genrily find pirates and the like to be very honorable but you canot call all pirates honarable or not honarable on the actions of a few or a person likewaise on somthing they have done in a moment of anger i meen i call myself honarable but have not acted so at all times.

@ martin, allso wether or not you ment to call all alpah testers elitest it sounded that way to me, i'm an alpha and am not elitest (allthough i am a member of elite :) ) and don't like being called so on acount of another.

p.s sorry for useing the words honor and honarable so often :)

p.p.s and of the typos

Almost all of the VPR I deal with are honorable people. Unfortunately, the few that suck are the ones that make a lasting impression.
(Please feel free to replace the VPR in my statement with any other guild, as the statement still usually applies.)
-:sigma.SB

Yeah sorry Xava. It wasn't meant to imply that all alphas are rude or elitist. That's not the case at all.

I agree Solra, just like anywhere, you will find a few 'bad apples.'
People make mistakes, get angry etc. I am as guilty of this as the next guy.

The only real advice anyone can give is to "suck it up, get a new ship, and try it again. This time think of it as a challenge and not a personal attack."

I agree and I disagree with shape.We should set an example for newbs after all vets will retire and newbs will be born a lifecycle that never ends and somewhere along the lines got contaminated by hatred more than there should be.I am just as guilty as anyone is and my eyes are opened.Every society has these issues it will never ever end there are the good the bad and dare i say the dead.The dead ones are those who get angry over stupid things, why dead?Becuase out of all this they arent playing the game wich is the reason VO exists we all need to start over and change make things right again by leading examples and yet not being too restrictive.I imagine this wouldnt be easy im willing to forgive and forget all the wrong doers and the wrongs i did.I have noticed things have been escalating latley and hope that we can stop this madness.I placed this here becuase it is asorrow filled apology and so should be placed here.

With that statment declared i am taking a break from b8 wich i where some problems root and am doing odd jobs at an undisclosed location(becuase there are ppl who would like to kill me)and doing alot of thinking.