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Regarding the Syndicate

Feb 21, 2006 genka link
I am an angry man. It is a compounded problem, stemming from repressed childhood stress, (thanks freud), and more to the point, a certain person having, through what I believe to be a mild form deception, seized the power over my guild, the syndicate. Now, before I get into too much detail over the current problem I have, let's go over some history.

Back in 2003, there was a guy playing by the name of "kamikazi superbus" or something of the sort. He had a bright idea one april morning, and lo and behold, the syndicate! A guild of pirates! All three of us. Could've been four. At the time, fourteen sectors was all we had, so any number of actual pirates was a pain. Individual players could actually kill enough people to impact the entire universe while they were on. Imagine a whole guild of'em! Anyway, the point is that three days later, Mr. [syn]Ikazi was ready to call it quits, and abandoned the guild, suggesting that the other members do the same. They didn't argue, and normally, I wouldn't either, but sadly, I got the message from someone other than the grand poobah. I can't say exactly who it was, but some player, angered by the guild's actions on day three of existence, was the first to inform me, after killing me three times in a row. Other displeased vigilantes soon followed, each one demanding that I give up my [syn] tag or be destroyed repeatedly. Being the arrogant bastard I am, I let pride take over, and outright refused to rescind my membership, out of pure spite, really. After a few more deaths, the good ol' leader logged on and helpfully informed me of the fact that he was disbanding the syndicate, and that I should delete my [syn] character, as he has done. I didn't really believe that he had much standing to tell me what to do, seeing as how he'd abandoned the damn guild after only three days, so I said I'd rather keep my pride and [syn] tag. His response was "suit yourself," so I did. Then he sold his computer, and I didn't see him again until 2005. My [syn] tag, however, stayed, and brought me a whole community worth of griefing for a week or two, until tempers sank and people realized that the only thing I was a threat to was a certain roid in 7.

What followed was two years of people (mostly scubasteve) reviving the syndicate every few months. I always went along with these exciting, and most often short-lived resurrections, because really, I thought they represented exactly what I joined the syndicate for in the first place: a guild of cool people with a sense of humor, and the balls to see public opinion for what it is: an opinion. Eventually, sometime during beta, we actually managed to make an actual guild, with like, lieutenants and stuff. The then-leader eventually buggered off to play other games and stuff, and I was left as the only active member, of you could call it active. Eventually, after a couple of cool guys joined up to keep me company, we reorganized a bit, so that I'd be the commander, really, for the first time evah. The syndicate then sat around in limbo for about a year longer, until Mr. Kteln showed up, with a brand new account name, nothing but his word to prove he was the original creator but his word.

His first order of business? Why, revive the syndicate, of course! I doubt it even entered into his mind that what he had started for a whole three days two years earlier might not be exactly the same as what he wanted to "resurrect." My first response was pretty much what you'd expect from an anghsty troll who was just informed that some random newb he's never heard of before was making grand plans to "resurrect" the guild I was happy to be pretty much the only permanent member of for two years.
Sadly, I made the wrong choice, and after becoming convinced that doku-something was indeed haazanko or whatever, I amended my initial reply, and being full of optimism, as I'm apt to be, I signed the guild over to Kteln without much question, having over the years romanticized him to be some sort of super-cool dude that's funny and always reasonable. Imagine my disappointment when he turned out to be no better than the newb I first took him to be.

My disappointment was multi-faceted, the first aspect of which was mostly to do with all the rules and "guidelines" he'd made up for his little mini-utopia. Sometime during 2004ish era I'd formulated the opinion that rules were for guilds whose members were either too dense to know what to do without strict guidelines, or too newbish to understand what was expected of them.
Sadly, I didn't take these rules to mean much, and figured that it wasn't such a bad thing at all. Oh, how wrong I was... My worst fears about guilds with rules were proven to be true when Mr. Kteln started inviting just the sorts of players I always earned to avoid. I was still feeling the end of the wave of good will and optimism that came over me, so I didn't much press the issue and simply quit the guild, hoping Mr. Kteln would be reasonable enough to see that when every single veteran player leaves his guild (as they did, with the exception of Storm of Silence) he might be doing something wrong.

Oh, to be young and hope for the best... Needless to say, my wildest expectations turned feral and ran away never to be seen again, and the guild remains the pile of useless crap it became when Kteln started to take over.

What is my problem with all of this you might ask? Well, as some of you may know, one of my primary characters is named [syn]n00b. I'm not really up for changing that name, and I certainly won't, but I would certainly like to break all and any association with the abomination that calls itself the syndicate today. At the same time, I'd like to keep myself firmly connected to the syndicate I was, and still am, a part of since it's conception. Assuming you discard the notion of changing my name, as I have, or even Kteln's suggestion of creating a new guild called "the old syndicate" or something, the obvious solution would be to get the new guild itself to change it's name, but that's not as easy as it sounds. Not that it sounds all that easy.

At any rate, what I would like to see happen is one of the following:

1) Kteln sees things in a reasonable way, and voluntarily asks a guide or dev to change the name of the guild for him

2) A kind dev or guide forcibly changes the name of the guild, and reserves all guild names containing the word "syndicate", as a favor to me.

3) #2, not as a favor to me, but for roleplay reasons. It's pretty clear that Kteln's syndicate doesn't come anywhere near fitting the development wiki's description of the corvus syndicate, and never will. Black ships were off limits for a good while (although you're seem to have given up on that,) so why not a guild name that creates false expectations based on the wiki?

Thankya'll for your attention to the matter.
All hail the king of the porcelain throne.

Some references for picky people:
Feb 21, 2006 jexkerome link
Old Syn had very few active players by the time the game went Gold, but they at least actively pirated and tried to adapt to things like ship and weapon tweaks and the moth; I saw 0 this week (and had the plasure of getting my prospecting ship taken out by him) and it was a rush to see him again.

The New Syn, on the other hand, is a joke because it's just BLAK under another name, and I've yet to find a single one of them pirating, they just hang around B-8 doing PvP! BDC only pirates NPCs, but they are skilled and fearsome when pirating players in TGFT's mining event; CLM you actually find pretty much everywhere around greyspace and UITspace, and they give chase in spite of SFs and stuff. Now THAT's what piracy is all about! Lastly, of late SYN has taken to strutting around on 100 like AI and IDF used to do instead of pirating. Annoooy-ing!

In conclusion, I prefer the old Syn to the new Syn, but there's nothing to be done about it now. You shouldn't have folded to peer pressure, Genka!
Feb 21, 2006 Shapenaji link
Lets look at a few things:

Jex: I am often the only Syn member on (we're seeking to remedy this by actually recruiting) something which CLM did quite a bit of, giving them the resources to actually spread out a bit. Kteln is on from time to time too, but 2 people isn't really enough to coordinate like CLM can.

Sedina B8 has been MY pirating ground ever since security around Azek J1 was increased. When that spot was taken from me, along with the drain on my major chase vessel, the vulturious, I was forced to move to a new spot.

I'm quite willing to change that, but a fair amount of its arena-ness came from the large battles that emerged between BLAK-VPR-IA etc.. over rights to control those areas. I don't think I am grandstanding to say that my presence there had an effect.

I have to leave sedina anyway. Its too crowded with bots.

The fact is, that I pirate quite often. Do I go after experienced players in moths with a full compliment of mines, alone? no, not usually. I can't get a valk, and if I could, I wouldn't be able to attack itani.

so solo long-distance mothkilling is sorta out for me. I have to catch them at a wormhole. Which means sticking to an area.

If you go after a moth in a hog, you're using a heavy battery. If you're using a heavy battery, you don't have time to jump from wh to wh, since if you DO find someone, you won't have time to charge up.

Syn is growing. We will spread.

And n00b, who basically let the guild stagnate, should shut the hell up.

Finally, regarding the TGFT suarees. Most of the time I can't attend. There are RL things that I have to take care of, which often puts me at odds with these large communal piratical events.

So please people, consider that we are still small in terms of active members, and we are doing our best to become again the Syndicate of Beta. (in Which I might add, n00b was an often inactive member)


Oh... And Noob? Actually, we'd rather that we didn't have to have you as our mascot, by virtue of your name, so I would suggest one of three solutions:

1) You change a name which has had no real purpose since the guild system was introduced.

2) You quit grandstanding about "ye grand good-auld days", which never happened.

3) See 1). My understanding is that you haven't really paid for your account in ages. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, your argument about the difficulty in changing your name is totally spurious.
Feb 21, 2006 Sun Tzu link
Good for you, but that is rather off the point Genka and Jex are making.

There is no interest in having Syndicate as a Black Lance clone. If that's the idea then why not rename it to Blak?
Feb 21, 2006 Shapenaji link
No, its not off the point.

Its NOT a black lance clone, I have no plans to sit and fight in B8. And my point was that I pirate before all else, I can't help it if people have a tendency to come to me.

The fact that I DO fight in B8 is generally because I'm bored with the lack of traders. (I tend to be on when there are ~15 people on)

Genka's main point is NOT that its a Blak clone, but rather that its not his little group of 3. He considers the guild his property.

There are a few ex-Blak members in Syn, Gavan and myself specifically.

Guess what, there are several in CLM as well. As well as SKV, BDC, ST6, etc...

those of us in Syn just moved our main chars, is that why we're getting flak?

We are recruiting, any time spent on channel 100 has generally been used to try to bring in new recruits. Cuz honestly, a few good chasers is no substitute for presence around the universe.

Quit attacking Syn while its in a transitional period.

And accusing me of sitting in B8 and just fighting is patently false.
Feb 21, 2006 Doukutsu link
Just a few clarifications / fact checking:

--Genka is fairly accurate except for a few things in the beginning: The initial attempt at continuing the Syndicate guild actually lasted for about a month and a half. Yes, the post quotes me saying I had given up after 3 days - but basically, that didn't happen. The thread became outdated by the time I had changed my mind. I never recall messaging anyone telling them to quit or remove their [syn] tag (why on earth would I do that anyways?) - but given the benefit of the doubt, I suppose I could have done something of the sort. A possible source for that message (if it did actually get sent): I recall actually "banning" n00b from the unofficial guild (there were no guild controls back in alpha) because he was constantly breaking the guild rules. The point is, our 'pirating' efforts had continued for a while after just those 3 days. Unfortunately, it was mostly me and occasionally ScubaSteve for the following weeks, although we did get a couple more people on our team, but they quickly dropped out.
--The "veterans" that n00b speaks of leaving the guild... never actually left. We (Gavan and I) re-created the guild completely from scratch (with the help of a few alts, which are now somewhat gone). It was, in fact, a guild that we created.

I commend ScubaSteve and [syn]n00b for keeping the name alive (perhaps in a somewhat unpopular manner). I really do. When I came back to VO, I really wanted to continue where I had left behind, just most other players would. I politely asked n00b if I could use the Syndicate name to start up something of the original guild. I thought I had made my intentions fairly clear, and thought all would be well, because n00b and most other players considered Syn to basically be dead in the water. If n00b would have refused to donate the name, then I would have been disappointed and started another guild up. I just had the idea of "Lets take this name that had an interesting goal and breath some life into it again." So things pretty much went off without a hitch.

Now we've got a somewhat active guild - given, its been around for a couple months now, but we just started trying to get new members - and are doing so with success, and we have a name for ourselves. I beleive that a majority of people recognize that this is not the same Syn that was here before.

The point is - whats done is done. I can understand where n00b is coming from. He was a member of the old syndicate for a couple years and his name is based on it. The argument is basically "I don't want to change my name, so you change yours." And thats certainly what I would have done (_for_ n00b) if it was way earlier and if we didn't come so far already. But whats done is done. He's protesting just a couple months too late.

For the other points - exactly what Shape said. You might certainly see us in B8 a lot, because thats basically where we get our pvp practice in, do some recruiting, and there's a lot of people that come through there. I'll admit B8 is currently where I spend about half of my time, but the other half is almost entirely devoted to pirating in other greyspace areas (which can get quite boring sometimes, considering the lack of people that come through regularly). But even when I am in B8, about half of THAT time is spent on pirating. I avoid 100 as much as possible (except for the occasional recruiting effort).

Don't think that because Syn is a pirating guild it means that we chase moths around 24/7. We have our own agenda and own way of doing things.

But perhaps you do have somewhat of a point. We should probably be a bit more ruthless than we currently are. That wasn't my original intention, which was pirating when it suits and benefits US, not when it suits other players. But we'll discuss it.

When all is said and done, this is just a game. Relax and have fun and stop freaking out about the little things.
Feb 21, 2006 jexkerome link
Like I said, Shape, I've found CLM members in Azek, Latos, Dau, Nyrius, Verasi and Edras, and they ALWAYS chase. They don't care they're going to be chased by SFs or anything, they try to do right by the pirate's lifestyle. You yourself are admitting at balking at it.

This weekend, playing around with Jayce (since Joyce was planetside RPwise) I was doing trade runs for Xang Xi from Latos to Nyrius on an unarmed Atlas X. Yoda/UPN was around and he gave chase whenever we crossed paths; he never got me (phew!) but he tried, it's what his charas do, after all. On the other hand, that SYN guy with the stupid pirate name that ends in Yarrrr was in Latos H-2 every time I passed by; he saw me every time and I even passed close to him, and he just WAVED at me. It was like a two-hour period, and the guy preferred to do PvP (since people like spuck and yoda are trying to get it moved to Latos H-2 since it's better for that than B-8) than to act like he's supposed to and give chase; same thing with kteln last I saw him. So you could have all your members online, but all they seem to prefer to PvP than to actually pirate! Hell, NIKI pirates more than any of you do!

Conclusion: SYN is not a pirate Guild.
Feb 21, 2006 MSKanaka link
LeberMac said something to me and Erik last night over 100 (quoted from the IRC relay channel):

[20:45] <vo>[100] <LeberMac> Hell, you three are online like every day for 6 hours

... where "you three" refers to myself, Joyce, and Erik.

Now, if I weren't already otherwise engaged (ie, being the Lieutenant and one of the Council members of Sigma) I'd be willing to join the Syndicate. Perhaps I should level up an alt for them. :)
Feb 21, 2006 moldyman link
Miles is wandering around aimless, with nothing to do. Plus, I need to make him UIT hated anyway.
Feb 21, 2006 genka link
... Banning me from the syndicate for unsyndicate-like behavior?
What's next, I never actually was in the syndicate, I just made the whole thing up to get some jollies? Hell, the only unsyndicate-like behavior I was capable of was trading, and I very seriously doubt that I was ejected for that. If only because I distinctly remember that the day after the grand mess at s10, I was quite surprised when someone claiming to be [syn]Ikaze's non-pirate character asked me if I was aware of the fact that he'd disbanded the guild because of "too much bad blood," and kindly allowed me to remove my guild tag.

I'm willing to stipulate to the "longer than three days" statement, because I don't really think it was such a ridiculously short amount of time. That'd be silly. But I have the message board to back me up, and my argument's a good deal more effective if it says three days, so I guess people will have to scroll down to correct this error in their minds.

As for the veterans point of your post... Well... You might think back to when you re-made the guild. Would you care to bring up your motivations for a complete re-build? No? I'll tell you what, why don't I do it: it disbanded automatically because you didn't have enough members. Hmm. I don't recollect that ever happening before you took over... I wonder if it could be because I wasn't the only one displeased enough with your management to leave?
Of course, I'm not surprised you glossed over the whole guild-falling-apart-because-you-didn't-have-enough-members thing in your mind.

Alright, one last point:
You say you agree exactly with what shape said, which I can only assume includes the "quit attacking the syndicate while it's in a transitional period" portion of his post. At the same time, you expect me to believe that it's "too late to change the name"? Which one is it? Transition, or too late?

Moving on to portions of Shape's post!
Specifically, the "Genka's main point is NOT that its a Blak clone, but rather that its not his little group of 3. He considers the guild his property" bit. Yea, you're absolutely rights about one thing, I do consider the guild to be my property. As for the assumption about my main point, well, you kinda fell through there.
The fact that syn is a blak clone irritates me to no end, but I tried to stay away from that to avoid the sort of personal confrontations that would be bound to come had I stated that explicitly. I thought it was pretty obvious, without being flames, but I guess not.

And the other, more curious point:
"My understanding is that you haven't really paid for your account in ages."
Oh, I would LOVE to hear your reasoning for this. Seriously, it would make my day. :D
Feb 21, 2006 Renegade xxRIPxx link
pff he has a tendency to play on the person in stead of on the facts and even if he does play on the facts he only sees the ones that make his point ring true.
Feb 21, 2006 Gavan link
Careful noob, your panties are showing.
Feb 21, 2006 Shapenaji link

Half the CLM pilots have high itani standing, they fly valks, which gives them the freedom to move around.

And again I will repeat, they have MANY active members, your information is based on the activities of 2, and a new recruit. I am not admitting at balking at it.
Just because I don't chase every time I see a trader does not mean that I do not pirate. The fact is, I chase about half the time.

And I catch a fair amount too. I get traders calling me names all the time over 100. Maybe you're just hearing selectively.

In fact, I'd say a good 3rd of my kills are from piracy. that's 1000 pk's jex. More than most players work up doing regular fighting in B8.

Or maybe you just prefer trolls like n00b as your pirates? And that's the issue?

I'm not ruthless enough, eh?

Not ruthless enough to sit by a roid all day and attempt to be as loud with my cynicism as possible?

The fact is that I take people all the time. I just don't go onto 100 and brag about it. I don't go on, like "0" used to do and declare "I R teh winnar!!".

But I do chat, and if you want me to shut up, say the word.

I also do a fair bit of combat training. Which I suppose has given me an entirely too positive reputation. Maybe I should stop that too.

What else can I do to make myself your perfect pirate?

n00b: you fly a bus all day. Why would you then pay for an account that supports a game, whose direction, and people, you don't like?

And to echo Gavan, it does look like they're chafing. You might want to un-bunch them
Feb 21, 2006 genka link
Wow shape, that makes perfect sense. How couldn't I see it before? Thanks for opening my eyes to the reasons I don't pay for my account. I was wondering if you could clear up one last thing for me: why do the devs let me play even though I don't pay?

At any rate, before you guys get too far off-topic, I have a question for Kteln:
Who would it hurt to change the name of your guild?
Do you have like, a script with the word "syndicate" hardcoded into it at multiple places? Have you spent the last month making up clever puns on the word "syndicate" to use as you go along, and don't want to lay your work to rest? Did you have all your members tattoo "syndicate" on their ankles?

If not, what difference will it make to you if the name of your guild suddenly became "super evil pirate guild" or "shape wears the pants in this family" or something? Your set of rules or whatever will still be the same, won't it? You'll still do whatever it is you do now, won't you? Nothing will really change for your guild. Nothing. All you have to do is ask a guide to change the name. How hard can that be?

If you want, I can do the asking for you, provided you make a post I can point to as a sign of consent. That way you won't have to suffer the awkwardness of having to ask for something.
Feb 21, 2006 Doukutsu link
Look genka, I'm tired of this whole argument. Our guild changing our name is something that is a possibility in the far future, but as for right now, its just not going to happen. Move on.
Feb 21, 2006 MSKanaka link
The only thing that can change related to the name of a guild without a total disband and recreate is the acronym as far as I can tell.
Feb 21, 2006 icbm1987 link
Shall we then call them... The Synonyms? The Synthesizers? The Synners?

I'm out of ideas.
Feb 22, 2006 Gavan link
N00b you really are starting to sound desperate. I used to think you had an interesting sort of intellect: your snappy dialogue on 100 and whatnot. Granted it tended to reside on the verbal masturbation side of the old pie chart, but it was usually interesting enough to listen to for a few minutes.

This though, is verging on childish. I would suggest getting your name changed before your boys drop. This kind of inane babbling won't go well with the drop in vocal tone.

Fun thread though. Keep it up.
Feb 22, 2006 yodaofborg link
Well Miharu, the [BORG] did get a full rename to [CLM] :P But a guide cant do it, not that im suggesting Syn rename or anything.

Anyways, I would like to point out that me n Shape met through piracy, we then pirated together for a while, and then we didnt! Anyways, long winding story short, I consider Shape to be not only a very skilled PVP guy, but also a pretty clever pirate, I havent seen many pirates take down moths with energy only.

Old Syn is dead, long live teh new Syn!
Feb 22, 2006 Gavan link

Syn is dead, long live Syn!