You seem to have a personal vendetta against pirates, as I've noticed you routinely say we "ruin" the game, and that we shouldnt be in here. And the number 1 easiest way to not be a target in your centaur is to stop running, turn around and shoot. Centaurs are so easy to take down cuz no one ever tries to fight you in them, they just run in terror. And Im not advocating making pirating any easier or harder, its pretty damn hard as it is. If you dont believe me stop trading for a week and only pirate, youll notice a large and steady drain on your credits. Only recently since most of us have organized is pirating becoming truly profitable, cuz theres finally enough of us that running will often just get you caught up at the next wormhole. So please, don't sit there and rag on our choice of how to play the game, cuz its not easy and has taken a whole lot of work to even make into a feasible occupation. You dont pay 10 bucks to be a victim, and I dont pay 10 bucks to be a trader.

I have always had a personal vendetta agaisnt pirates, mostly because of the number of newbies that I trained and never saw again because they fell victim in their little tradeships against veteran players having 'fun'. People don't like to be killed for nothing, thats the reason why in any other game pk-ing is under severe restrictions in an RPG. And you only have duels and assasin option (which if you get killed offer you a serious penalty)

There are always people that will stick to the game and try to become better then the pirates to kick their butt, but these amounts are minimal especially in a RPG. Since these are mostly pure FPS habits. And I was one of them. Or why else do you think that the game had never sustained a steady influx of newbies even during open beta?

I never cared for being blown up, although I didn't like to see a mission go to waste or to see a pirate earn a profit of 200 - 400%. I do however fail to see the fun in blowing up a centaur (which is hardly a challenge) and then boasting about how good of a pirate I am.

And I wonder if you ever flew a centaur yourselve and actually tried to do that, since I doubt severely that you even know the effect of doing that. Trust me if a prom can't even stand a chance with good pilots, then a centaur has not even got the slightest chance. And the reason why people run in a centaur is because they know that they don't stand a chance in a 1vs1. And yes I have fought in many centaurs and failed constantly, and I was able to beat these pirates with there own ships consistently. (with the exception of icarus and phoenix). I however doubt that I could do it now, since I am very rusty.

once more so in stead of being a pirate you have made it into a gangbanging game? Anyway, if like you say you do work together effectively now, then I will not even start or finish my tradingmission(ill just press -). I took your fun out of the game, and I took my fun out of the game. Maybe that was your goal? I don't know. But I do know that this will stop me of paying for the game in the long run.

Once more, I don't mind PIRATES being in the game, I do mind "CENSORED" being in the game. If you pirate me when I do not mind to be pirated then go right ahead, but not when I have to finish something and am low on cash or hav eno time to fool around, or am just not willing to have fun in that kind of way. Or have no chance to defend myself. And what I am advocating is that the devs finally make the heavy ships worth flying again and if they don't to at least give them a distinct difference to the light ships. In stead of making the lighter ships better and better and better and guess what a little bit more better. blah

cheers

Ok, lets clear up a few things.

pk'ing IS under heavy restrictions. Strictly speaking, it only takes place in unmonitored zones, such as Grey Space, or Azek/Verasi (Instead of doing away with these, I would like to see unmonitored wh's in all faction spaces, currently, serco have none). Now, some very good pilots might be able to hunt people back to their base, but most of the time we 'trol areas that have a lot of traffic.

Centaurs being able to match fighters....... um, No?
The centaur is an example of a ship designed with a particular purpose in mind. Heavy transport attached to an engine. It is certainly not a balanced heavy battleship/trader, nor should it be.

Skill is all fine and well, but there is no skill that will let you take a UPS van against a tank.

if you want the ability to fly in grey space and defend yourself, I suggest a maud. Have you ever looked into their stats? they seem balanced to me.

Oh, almost forgot, and as far as pirating you when you don't "want" to be pirated... pay up cheapo and we won't have any problem. And geto teh hello auto myo greyo spaco

wow. When I started this thread I had no idea it would become the monster that it is now.

I think Renegade has a similar view of VO as I do, which is basically that the fun aspect of the game isnt what it used to be. My personal view is this; I am a part time gamer. I have a real life and a real job and cannot afford to spend massive hours developing a perfect pvp character and the skill to go with that character. I dont believe in paying to be griefed, or for a game where I only have limited access to avoid being griefed.

Every time I went to grey space I ran across a pirate or 5. Every time I ran into one I got blown up. Why?
1.) My main character had no access to decent weapons, not even mines, to defend herself.
2.) I had not the skill (or desire) to effectively pvp, the few times I did stand a chance.
3.) Some people are forced to use dial up connections where they live since nothing else is available. Dial up lags.
and 4.) The "pirate" was not interested in money or cargo, only blowing up my ship.

Now dont bother saying "just go botting untill you get higher levels". I have no desire or intention of spending my entire time botting. It is both boring and time consuming. One can only bot for so long at a time. Plus it costs money to replace ships lost in botting.
I used to not mind pirating when I didnt run into them every time I logged on. There comes a point when things get out of hand.
I did, and still do, like VO itself. What I do not like is getting pk'd every time I step outside of my home system. I dont see getting pk'd every day as fun. I see it as being griefed. Every single person I have talked into joining this game has not stayed because of these same feelings. It is obvious they were not the only ones who felt this way as I do not see the active players list growing.
To those of you who engage in these activities, you just dont understand that its your own "fun" you are hurting in the long run. You are singlehandedly driving people away from the game. Or maybe these pirates dont really care, as long as they get to feel big by blowing someone up and ruining their fun. If thats how they feel, then it truly is griefing.

From the Webster's Online Dictionary:
Griefing is the term used in online games, usually the Massively Multiplayer variety, that refers to the act players take for the sole purpose of discomforting other users. Such actions include kill stealing, Player Killing, stealing dropped items from a kill or during inventory reorganization or a mistake, harassment, and just about any other mean that would annoy another player.

If pirates are really interested in pvp, they would attack people who are willing to engage them and have their kind of fun. Attacking someone who doesnt want to be bothered is, by the very definition, an act of griefing.

If you don't like getting shot up stay outta grey space. I really am sick of all the "traders" or "miners" that don't get this. They think that because they have a big ol cent and are paying members of vendetta that they have a right to not get shot at. I am not a pirate, I am a trader. I know what it's like to see 60k+ go up like that cause I did not feel like paying up. I hurts I know, but I could have been avoided by my not going to grey space.

Ok, I'm done ranting. This was not aimed at any one person, just my angry thoughts.

Pirates have been a part of Vendetta ever since trading was implemented, and will never leave. It's just a way of playing. Granted, some of these players may be griefers, but I tend to think that they are a distinct minority. Almost all of them will demand money in exchange for not killing you for the rest of (their) day. If you consider that the amounts that they ask are usually less than the price of replacing your ship, your weapons, and your cargo, I think that paying them off is probably a worthwhile choice.

If you don't want to PvP and you don't want to encounter pirates, then I recommend that you eith stay out of gray space (and thus avoid the risk), learn to fight so that you can defend yourself, or you hire someone to defend you. I notice that you're not complaining about the multitudes of high level bots that lurk in ion storms. In my experience, I've encountered far fewer pirates than ion storms, so I don't see pirates as being as big a problem as you're making it out to be. When I trade, I stay out of gray space because I know that's where I'd be attacked, and when I want to fight, I go into gray space because that's where the action is. The best prices are in gray space, but the risks are accordingly higher - both from players and NPC bots.

Shape,

The only thing that I am stating is that it is not easy to be a pirate, but it sure as hell aint easy to be a trader. Since everybody considers a trader to be their target for profit. I supposed that pirating should only be available to the elite. Meaning 1 or 2 percentage of the total online population. And not 20 - 30%. Normally you would expect pirates to fight with each other for the dominant position and for profit. That is the way how you would roleplay a piratingrole. Not as a cooperative strikeforce...

Shape in real life we don't have the problem of skill-equipment. Since in real life they complement each other and do not make up for some lesser degree from one or the other.

Anyway why should I be limited to one ship to fly or do successfull missions in grey space? doesn't that seem to hurt the so called diversity either? Wouldn't it be better for balance and fun if a centaur was actually able to defend itself? And doesn't it seem strange to you that a bigger ship like you stated that only has a strapped up engine has a smaller cargohold then the smaller, more agile, with a bigger cargohold and for the rest a pretty darn decent fightingship. I would be mesmerized by that and would presume this bigger ship to actually own the smaller more agile ship in this. Not to mention that I was wondering why it should be impossible to have a big mean ass trader able to actually fend off for itself. I find it strange that you think that a trader is just going to run around with a ship that is unable to defend itself. Since if it did that it would damage its own profitability, and no sensefull trader is going to hurt his own purse. Wasn't it strange that even during the beta only the real newbies were actually flying centaurs, but that everybody else was flying a marauder?

Anyway shape, so the only choice I have is to pay you to be protected from you. Then I have to pay icarus to be protected from him. And yes why not lets pay relayer also, and while were at it why not spider and softy and... I am not a goddamned piggybank, or an easy cash drain. Im trading for myself not for some leeaches or parasites that are to lazy to actually trade for themselves (overly exagerated). Not to mention that this doesn't classify as a fun time for me. And thats what im paying for aint I? Anyway to clarify this once more, I don't mind getting shot at. I don't mind getting blown up by the better person. I do however mind that the only chance I have to defend against a pirate is using the marauder or running away. Not much choice is it? THAT AND ONLY THAT IS THE REASON WHY I STATED THAT IT WOULD BE NICE IF THE CENTAUR WOULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO DEFEND ITSELF just as the prom would be able to defend itself. And if this is impossible then at least make sure that this ship actually receives a purpose. By for instance making it a bulk trader with small to zero weaponports but supreme cargocapcacity. At least at that time I can agree with its role. But as long as the centaur has less cargocapacity then a ship that can stand its man agaisnt any pirate- threat, I can not understand why this ship could not be altered so that it at least offers pirates a run for their money in stead of acting as the bulls-eye.

And as long as this didn't happen, pirates should not brag about being good for just taking out a simple tradeship.

Pidgeon: you can avoid practically all the ion storms with ease. You can't do that with pirates since you don't know in which sector they are. And if I had not known that the chance to encounter an ion storm is big whenever I fly over an asteroid belt then I would have conmplained also ove the multitude of ion storms that I had encountered. And by chance I have seen a couple of these threads sprout up by some newbies that didn't know this exact detail making it actually impossible for them to fulfill 1 mission and actively hampering their fun decreasing once mroe the influx of newbies. These ion storms got a little adjustment because of this reason also, since they were happening to fequently.

Again, the larger ships WILL be getting some tweaks in the near future. See News / In Progress.

"...it sure as hell aint easy to be a trader..."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sniff.

as if you ever traded in anything but a bus genka... and therefore actually needed to make a profit.

OK, once again, you can reach all the monitored nation space without EVER going into unmonitored grey space, which surprisingly enough, says pirates right on the map. Also, you do know where we are and its very easy to avoid us, we are in grey space, at the wormholes, and are most often broadcasting our position in the goal of getting people to show up. And if that isnt enough simply asking me where I am will almost alwasy get you my position (I cannot speak for the other pirates, but from what I can tell they would probably do the same) Ion storms you dont know the location of till you hit them. Also, pirates attack each other as much if not more than we attack traders, and since when did pirates not co-operate, criminals almsot ALWAYS band together for the obvious benefits (think the mob, gangs, criminal syndicates, etc) and theres a whole faction of pirates, which makes me think co-operating pirates is a given. Also, like Shape said, you cannot expect to beat a tank with a ups truck.

Also, you said no sensible trader would hurt his own purse, if thats the case sensible traders wouldnt go flying into grey space with a centuar or atlas full of goodies for the pirates.

We dont brag about taking out traders unless they get insolent with us. Or of course they are full of good cargo, and then we arnt bragging about the kill, we are bragging about our luck of actually making money for a change.

Ive flown all the ships except for the valks and proms, due to the fact I hate the botting grind, but on that note Ive used a centaur pretty extensivly and it is my primary ship for botting. It has 2 L ports and 1 S, thats a shitload of firepower and I would also like to point out you CANNOT use a heavy ship in combat like a fighter because its heavy. It requires different tactics and strategy. Also, my centuar with dual plasdevs and a guass do massive damage when they hit, normally only taking 2 salvos to take out just about any player ship. Perhaps if you worked on learning how to fight with a centuar instead of just expecting it to magically be a fighter you would find it more useful. (And just for the record, I HAVE been taken out by a centaur a few times that turned and fought, mainly because the player who did was quite experienced flying heavy ships and knows how to handle them in combat.)

You dont see us complaining about how hard it is to pirate in nation space, you really have no right to complain about getting pirated in the space thats designated for pirates.

Learn to fight back or stay out of grey space...
I personaly am just trying to gain lvl points... i know it seems cold hearted but im doing what i can to gain points and lvls

Okay I've been letting this thing run its course and now I think we are there.

I think we can agree that:

Not ALL pirates are honorable, though some may be...sometimes.
Grey space is profitable...and dangerous, which is why it's profitable.
More ship tweaks are needed, particularly to the heavies.
Piracy is part of Vendetta.
Pirating isn't easy.
Trading is easy...unless there are pirates.
Both braggarts and whiners are annoying.
This thread is locked

Please let this mellow until the next round of tweaks.