Forums » Role Playing
Why no weapon ports? as we've already discussed, using a trader as a fighter should be worse, though we disagree a bit on the percentages. The weapon ports can just be used differently, you build a ship with the idea of running, not of killing.
And if you use the centaur (which is now INCREDIBLY good) you are using a trade ship. Not like a maud which can defend itself.
Of course a trader ought to be able to take on a pirate in a number of different ways, but there should be risks associated with some trader ships, up your profits, but you also up the danger.
And if you use the centaur (which is now INCREDIBLY good) you are using a trade ship. Not like a maud which can defend itself.
Of course a trader ought to be able to take on a pirate in a number of different ways, but there should be risks associated with some trader ships, up your profits, but you also up the danger.
very easy, in my eyes a prey is defenseless. Otherwise your not preying on them.
The changed atlas would then have the sole intent of running and using mines as soon as it sees a pirate. And if it gets away it has a nifty profit. 85 - 95 cargoports. hefty profit for a high risk. If protected with 1 escort its still cool.
No weaponports, for these escorts are a necessity. Since they have practically no chance at running. (add the weight of 150 cargo and youll understand why). This would be a real prey. And if unprotected by any escorts a knockover. Especially good for a big delivery for example in grouptrademissions.
the other ones, seem to me more like lone wolves type of traders (Renegades). Able to defend themselves adequately, and able to bring in a decent profit, but not superb. And in hands of a pirate a very good pirateship, since it has the hold to cary of the pirated cargo and is able to take out a cargoship. Not to mention that if I see a wraith following me and trying to pirate me, I will turn and stop and fight the pirate. If he beats me, he deserved my cargo and we have had a good fight, if he looses he has had a good fight and I think I deserved to keep the cargo.
that is what I consider to be fun in a game. And what makes a pirate stand out in stead of making a trader roll over and play death as soon as he meets a pirate...
cheers
The changed atlas would then have the sole intent of running and using mines as soon as it sees a pirate. And if it gets away it has a nifty profit. 85 - 95 cargoports. hefty profit for a high risk. If protected with 1 escort its still cool.
No weaponports, for these escorts are a necessity. Since they have practically no chance at running. (add the weight of 150 cargo and youll understand why). This would be a real prey. And if unprotected by any escorts a knockover. Especially good for a big delivery for example in grouptrademissions.
the other ones, seem to me more like lone wolves type of traders (Renegades). Able to defend themselves adequately, and able to bring in a decent profit, but not superb. And in hands of a pirate a very good pirateship, since it has the hold to cary of the pirated cargo and is able to take out a cargoship. Not to mention that if I see a wraith following me and trying to pirate me, I will turn and stop and fight the pirate. If he beats me, he deserved my cargo and we have had a good fight, if he looses he has had a good fight and I think I deserved to keep the cargo.
that is what I consider to be fun in a game. And what makes a pirate stand out in stead of making a trader roll over and play death as soon as he meets a pirate...
cheers
um, those ships exist.
shape they do not exist, since the marauder has always been the all purpose ship. And being the sort of ship I liked to trade, although not being classifyable as a PREY. But even as a hunter.
I can kick butt in it , I can trade 50+ cargopartsd in it, and I do not fear any pirate in it.
the centaur before the update had 48 or 58 cu, I find that a bit to little for being a trader that has no chance at defending itself. The atlas was allright how it was before, I just wanted to have a small and a bigger sized ship that fitted the role of the prey. And which without groupwork can be considered to be piratefodder. Which would alluviate both our needs. I'dd stick to the renegade ones, you hunt for the renegades but might expect a fight or for the bigger ones and either have it easy or need a group to take on the escort.
That is what I then would consider fun.
cheers
I can kick butt in it , I can trade 50+ cargopartsd in it, and I do not fear any pirate in it.
the centaur before the update had 48 or 58 cu, I find that a bit to little for being a trader that has no chance at defending itself. The atlas was allright how it was before, I just wanted to have a small and a bigger sized ship that fitted the role of the prey. And which without groupwork can be considered to be piratefodder. Which would alluviate both our needs. I'dd stick to the renegade ones, you hunt for the renegades but might expect a fight or for the bigger ones and either have it easy or need a group to take on the escort.
That is what I then would consider fun.
cheers
"very easy, in my eyes a prey is defenseless. Otherwise your not preying on them."
ever seen a lion get her ribs broken when a zebra kicks her? Prey don't have to be defensless, nevertheless, they still run.
ever seen a lion get her ribs broken when a zebra kicks her? Prey don't have to be defensless, nevertheless, they still run.
Id just like to point out the centaur is NOT worthless. I just shredded Holden Caulfields Orion C and won with 97% hull. And before you make any remarks on the skill of the pilot, Holden is one of the best Centurion pilots there is.
Tramshed,
for the umptieth time this was a reflection of the facts BEFORE the heavy ship update. So if you can kick somebodies centurion now, congrats but it has no bearing at all on my point.
Except that I finally get a worthy heavy trader.
Now we only need 2 super weak defended ships with supercargocapacity which you make part of grouptrademissions. Add to this either some piratemission (if noone takes that role in your group npcs get spawned that act as pirates who try to make the groupmission difficult/exciting for you.) And we have some nifty content for non loners.
Arash,
Ever seen the influence of a prox or lightning mine on a cent? And depending on this weapon to stand a chance against a lion (in cryptic language) is optimistic at best.
for the umptieth time this was a reflection of the facts BEFORE the heavy ship update. So if you can kick somebodies centurion now, congrats but it has no bearing at all on my point.
Except that I finally get a worthy heavy trader.
Now we only need 2 super weak defended ships with supercargocapacity which you make part of grouptrademissions. Add to this either some piratemission (if noone takes that role in your group npcs get spawned that act as pirates who try to make the groupmission difficult/exciting for you.) And we have some nifty content for non loners.
Arash,
Ever seen the influence of a prox or lightning mine on a cent? And depending on this weapon to stand a chance against a lion (in cryptic language) is optimistic at best.
I was tearing people up with centaurs before the update too, afaik they never were that bad in a fight with thier massive armor and firepower, just dont try to fly it like a fighter, its a bit massive for that style.
congrats to you then tramshed, I only got myself wasted.
I was able to have more succes with a prom though... I remember killing a whole lot of vultures with it... mmmhh the power of swarms and jackhammers... But maybe that was just because it flew a bit worse then a wraith but made up for that in sheer armor :D
I was able to have more succes with a prom though... I remember killing a whole lot of vultures with it... mmmhh the power of swarms and jackhammers... But maybe that was just because it flew a bit worse then a wraith but made up for that in sheer armor :D
So it's a matter of combat flying skill we're talking about here... maybe noobs should get a bit better at flying and combat then before they risk going into grey space? Otherwise why do trader ships like the atlas and centaur even have weapons?
I don't think you can make such an observation.
Even after all my gametime in vendetta, I still am a noob and I will always stay one.
and probably the reason for the weapons are to fight off the bots (which by chance are called pirates, and where I always kept my idea of tradeships should give you a chance at winning no mather what ship the opponent is flying).
Even after all my gametime in vendetta, I still am a noob and I will always stay one.
and probably the reason for the weapons are to fight off the bots (which by chance are called pirates, and where I always kept my idea of tradeships should give you a chance at winning no mather what ship the opponent is flying).
I'm sorry, but you just can't expect something like an Atlas, while a fine trade ship, to be able to take a prometheus. Or a marauder. Or any combat ship. It has weapons ports for two reason: mining (if you want to use the atlas for that and not the centaur) and defense. You never go botting or pvping in an atlas. It has a large port for mines, a small port for a quick defensive energy weapon. That's the point of trade ships - they sacrifice combat capability for large holds. If the game is to seem plausible, you can't have too high powered trade ships, otherwise they will get used by pirates (a combat fighter with a large hold and great acceleration) and pkers. The idea is tradeoff and specialization.
The key here is 'whose terms'. If the Atlas tries to take the Prom on the Prom's terms, it will lose. But if the Atlas runs and mines behind it, it stands a great chance of getting away. Just like a properly flown centurion can slaughter a centaur or a prom (not sure about the prom after these new changes, takes a better pilot that I am now), a properly flown trade ship can get away from pirates no problem.
The key here is 'whose terms'. If the Atlas tries to take the Prom on the Prom's terms, it will lose. But if the Atlas runs and mines behind it, it stands a great chance of getting away. Just like a properly flown centurion can slaughter a centaur or a prom (not sure about the prom after these new changes, takes a better pilot that I am now), a properly flown trade ship can get away from pirates no problem.
Beautifully put Lonestar.
As the Centaur/Bird of Prey debacle demonstrated, if you have a good trader that can fight like a dogfighter you may as well get rid of the small fighters and just have Proms and Centaurs because that's pretty well what most people were flying that night.
As the Centaur/Bird of Prey debacle demonstrated, if you have a good trader that can fight like a dogfighter you may as well get rid of the small fighters and just have Proms and Centaurs because that's pretty well what most people were flying that night.
Hey, did you post this before or after you *attempted* to pirate me tonight? :D
Before, I think. Not sure though.
Sigh, I didn't want to respond but ooh well here it comes.
I agree on the point of on its terms. But before the update the centaur had no terms except pick up and RUUUUUUN. Run boy run.
And still it had weaponports to defend itself. Nor did it have the biggest hold, or a serious advantage on the next ship in line with a sizable hold and being good in defending itself (the marauder). You may maybe say its a special, and its a light freighter. then I wonder why it has a bigger hold then the heaviest freighter and does miracly well in fending for itself.
I know how to fly a heavy ship (or at least I have a semi good idea). Especially since the only things I rely on are swarms or rockets and the occasional gaussshot as a last ditch attempt (which luckilly worked great in my past).
I consider the tradinships we have now, variants from one and the same baclground idea, namely a ship that can defend itself (with some luck). The only difference is that it has very good agility but less then a very very good agility fightership. There is a variant with normal agility, but being different from another non tradership.
Do not compare a centaur with a valk but a centaur with a ragnarok, since that is the function it has in that line of ships. If you consider the ragnarok should not be able to have any other use then be there as a target, then a centaur will need the same idea. However, if you make it this way, nobody will fly a ragnarok and everybody will stick to the other more defenseable ship^. Or you will see people use the ragnarok like a enter a sector shoot off all the weapons it has and warp back to station to rearm and retake it all (and to which I see many people objecting).
After this has been taken care of, you start looking at all the other ships, and see if for the role you intented to use them, their characteristiques fit. I however considered the centaur to be unworthy the characteristic I considered it to fit! Namely if it is supposed to be the Big fat target, then add at least 80 cargocapacity and delete one or even all of the weaponports. If you consider it a ship that should be able to defend itself with some fraction of success, then I consider that a centaur rebalance on its fightingcharacteristics was in order. And it seems like the devs chose the last one (and as always exagerated on their first attempt, which is expectable on a first rebalance).
PS: martin don't judge on 1 evening after a major rehaul. I wonder if you stop playing the game that you have just received as a christmaspresent. And then say ooh that game is the best one that I played ever. However if you talk 1 month later, the game has been shelved and youll probably hear martin say hmm it sure was not as good as I thought... Same is with an update, youll hear everybody say whow its a cool ship, wow its strong. couple weeks later, mmhh to many cracks in it armor that got revealed and that make it way easier to take out.
cheers
I agree on the point of on its terms. But before the update the centaur had no terms except pick up and RUUUUUUN. Run boy run.
And still it had weaponports to defend itself. Nor did it have the biggest hold, or a serious advantage on the next ship in line with a sizable hold and being good in defending itself (the marauder). You may maybe say its a special, and its a light freighter. then I wonder why it has a bigger hold then the heaviest freighter and does miracly well in fending for itself.
I know how to fly a heavy ship (or at least I have a semi good idea). Especially since the only things I rely on are swarms or rockets and the occasional gaussshot as a last ditch attempt (which luckilly worked great in my past).
I consider the tradinships we have now, variants from one and the same baclground idea, namely a ship that can defend itself (with some luck). The only difference is that it has very good agility but less then a very very good agility fightership. There is a variant with normal agility, but being different from another non tradership.
Do not compare a centaur with a valk but a centaur with a ragnarok, since that is the function it has in that line of ships. If you consider the ragnarok should not be able to have any other use then be there as a target, then a centaur will need the same idea. However, if you make it this way, nobody will fly a ragnarok and everybody will stick to the other more defenseable ship^. Or you will see people use the ragnarok like a enter a sector shoot off all the weapons it has and warp back to station to rearm and retake it all (and to which I see many people objecting).
After this has been taken care of, you start looking at all the other ships, and see if for the role you intented to use them, their characteristiques fit. I however considered the centaur to be unworthy the characteristic I considered it to fit! Namely if it is supposed to be the Big fat target, then add at least 80 cargocapacity and delete one or even all of the weaponports. If you consider it a ship that should be able to defend itself with some fraction of success, then I consider that a centaur rebalance on its fightingcharacteristics was in order. And it seems like the devs chose the last one (and as always exagerated on their first attempt, which is expectable on a first rebalance).
PS: martin don't judge on 1 evening after a major rehaul. I wonder if you stop playing the game that you have just received as a christmaspresent. And then say ooh that game is the best one that I played ever. However if you talk 1 month later, the game has been shelved and youll probably hear martin say hmm it sure was not as good as I thought... Same is with an update, youll hear everybody say whow its a cool ship, wow its strong. couple weeks later, mmhh to many cracks in it armor that got revealed and that make it way easier to take out.
cheers
Renegade. The numbers thread has already demonstrated that the Centaur in it's uberized state was pretty equivalent to a Corvus Vulturious with dual Guass. If it flew like a Valk, I can compare it to a Valk, although it actually flew more like a big Vulture, one with a gatling turret and 32 rockets.
It has also, since then been nerfed.
Basically, as someone who does nothing but harp on in these forums and, to the best of my knowledge, does not presently play the game, you are in no position to insult or patronise me. Your past experience with the game is of no value in the present.
/vote mute Renegade ++RIP++
/vote ignore Renegade ++RIP++
It has also, since then been nerfed.
Basically, as someone who does nothing but harp on in these forums and, to the best of my knowledge, does not presently play the game, you are in no position to insult or patronise me. Your past experience with the game is of no value in the present.
/vote mute Renegade ++RIP++
/vote ignore Renegade ++RIP++
I think that as the threads persist we are losing the point of noobs being Pirate fodder.
How do you encourage newbies to come back and still blow them out of the sky? The answer is that you don’t. The American Indians had a thing called “Counting Coup” where the brave would strike his intended target without killing him leaving him to deal with his shame and the knowledge of who was the better warrior.
Newbie botting is not an honorable sport. Does it feed egos, maybe. Does it promote the game, doubtful! There are no lessons learned from being obliterated by a Pirate other than “What the hell was I thinking when I came to grey space!” Don’t WE, the more experienced players, have the K button when targeting our foe? If you see a bus, say “Hi! Welcome to the game. I hope that you love it as much as I do!” instead of “Where was your home station, I’m sending you back there without your cargo!”
What ever happened to Faction sanctions? You know, kill a noob and drop by half!
How do you encourage newbies to come back and still blow them out of the sky? The answer is that you don’t. The American Indians had a thing called “Counting Coup” where the brave would strike his intended target without killing him leaving him to deal with his shame and the knowledge of who was the better warrior.
Newbie botting is not an honorable sport. Does it feed egos, maybe. Does it promote the game, doubtful! There are no lessons learned from being obliterated by a Pirate other than “What the hell was I thinking when I came to grey space!” Don’t WE, the more experienced players, have the K button when targeting our foe? If you see a bus, say “Hi! Welcome to the game. I hope that you love it as much as I do!” instead of “Where was your home station, I’m sending you back there without your cargo!”
What ever happened to Faction sanctions? You know, kill a noob and drop by half!
Well, killing noobs doesn't happen all that often. When it DOES happen, they're generally flying a trader ship through grey, and a slow one at that. I mean, come on, that's just suicide. And I personally, when I heard that grey space was dangerous, went out of my way to go there and see for myself. Had I not been 'sploded I would have felt very alone in this universe. (I believe I was flyin
a warthog at that point)
a warthog at that point)
Let's not sugar coat it... Yes It Does! It happens all of the time ... shoot first pick up cargo later! It was fun trading with you, have a nice day :-)