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I am at a loss. On one hand, Shape's and Yoda's behaviour makes me want to side with rene. On the other hand, rene's position isn't the most attractive to me. Oh, choises, choises...
Alright, here's what i am going to do.
You're all stupid newbs beating a dead horse. Shut up and get on with whatever it is you were doing before this testosterone contest.
Alright, here's what i am going to do.
You're all stupid newbs beating a dead horse. Shut up and get on with whatever it is you were doing before this testosterone contest.
Lonestar, it has been tried so many times, and it has always failed... Just as unsupported guilds succeeded for like a month or so and then disbanded or made other guilds uprise countering the first one. With as a result everybody non alligned caught in the crossfire. I have noticed that the most effective way to hunt a pirate was this one: get a group together and chase the pirate across all sectors but this turned into griefing so fast actually making the pirates resolve to take revenge on the traders even bigger.
I really don't believe in anything non game implemented to be beneficial for a game in the long run. It always gets abused or makes other people taken advantage off. You have the vipers - syn debacle(no offense genka or uncledave), the INM - SAF,etc
And this and this alone is my stance. I am not against pirating, I am not against pvp. I am however against unregulated pirating. Since it is a game and it is supposed to be fun for all not just fun for the person inititiating it (this case the chase).
This is the main reason why I would like to make pirating possible but only through a direct chain of missions. With only the elite that fulfill this chain actually being able to pirate people. This would create the eliteist feel and competition between 'criminals' that shape so wanted. not to mention that this in itself would look in my eyes more like actually roleplaying a pirate, namely inner tourmoile and infighting. And the strongest survives mentality. And this amount of purates should for instance be regulated to a max of 10% of the average online population. Meaning 70 people on average online in for example a week, a max of 7 pirates.
Especially since in many mouths pirating = pk-ing. And that in my eyes is not the goal in pirating. Which is the reason why I consider killing people in grey space != pirating. but just pk-ing. And calling it pirating is in my eyes just searching an excuse to make pk-ing more socially acceptable, since hey im roleplaying here you know...
EDIT: for all I care you make each of these first pirates choose a ship they prefer, for instance the 4 pirates are shape, genka, borg and icarus. Icarus prefers the vult, shape the valk, genka the bus and borg the marauder. And the max is set on 4. Now any new recruit that finished the missionstring needs to beat 3 of these 4 people in a duel in hteir preffered ship. If this recruit succeeds, he can choose which of these 4 pirates the recruit can demote to recruit and take his place in the elite-pirates valhalla. At the same time being able to set a new ship as prefered ship. And oly this valhalla is able to pirate people in grey space. the rest would be called pk-ers, but not pirates.
Another idea would be 3 duels for each pirate untill a majority has been reached. ther first is in the prefered ship of the elite - pirate. The second is in the prefered ship of the recruit-pirate and the third duel is in the bus. If the recruit is able to beat the elite-pirate in 2 of the 3 duels he has beaten this elite-pirate. If he has done this for the majority {1 + [1/2 * max%(pop)]} then he demotes an elite-pirate to his chosing.
Is this maybe something that can be considered to be more likeable... And on which even the pirates can agree?
I really don't believe in anything non game implemented to be beneficial for a game in the long run. It always gets abused or makes other people taken advantage off. You have the vipers - syn debacle(no offense genka or uncledave), the INM - SAF,etc
And this and this alone is my stance. I am not against pirating, I am not against pvp. I am however against unregulated pirating. Since it is a game and it is supposed to be fun for all not just fun for the person inititiating it (this case the chase).
This is the main reason why I would like to make pirating possible but only through a direct chain of missions. With only the elite that fulfill this chain actually being able to pirate people. This would create the eliteist feel and competition between 'criminals' that shape so wanted. not to mention that this in itself would look in my eyes more like actually roleplaying a pirate, namely inner tourmoile and infighting. And the strongest survives mentality. And this amount of purates should for instance be regulated to a max of 10% of the average online population. Meaning 70 people on average online in for example a week, a max of 7 pirates.
Especially since in many mouths pirating = pk-ing. And that in my eyes is not the goal in pirating. Which is the reason why I consider killing people in grey space != pirating. but just pk-ing. And calling it pirating is in my eyes just searching an excuse to make pk-ing more socially acceptable, since hey im roleplaying here you know...
EDIT: for all I care you make each of these first pirates choose a ship they prefer, for instance the 4 pirates are shape, genka, borg and icarus. Icarus prefers the vult, shape the valk, genka the bus and borg the marauder. And the max is set on 4. Now any new recruit that finished the missionstring needs to beat 3 of these 4 people in a duel in hteir preffered ship. If this recruit succeeds, he can choose which of these 4 pirates the recruit can demote to recruit and take his place in the elite-pirates valhalla. At the same time being able to set a new ship as prefered ship. And oly this valhalla is able to pirate people in grey space. the rest would be called pk-ers, but not pirates.
Another idea would be 3 duels for each pirate untill a majority has been reached. ther first is in the prefered ship of the elite - pirate. The second is in the prefered ship of the recruit-pirate and the third duel is in the bus. If the recruit is able to beat the elite-pirate in 2 of the 3 duels he has beaten this elite-pirate. If he has done this for the majority {1 + [1/2 * max%(pop)]} then he demotes an elite-pirate to his chosing.
Is this maybe something that can be considered to be more likeable... And on which even the pirates can agree?
well, considering that I think the best fun to be had in pirating is with group piracy. I don't think I agree on this one. The ships are not currently balanced to support single person piracy.
however, I will add the following story:
I was wandering between Bractus and Edras, looking to make use of my recently acquired license to kill itanis. Sure enough, an itani trader comes into pelatus. Just as I see him, another itani jumps into the system and waylays me. While I win that fight, the trader escapes unharmed, and I get no cash out of it. So clearly, anti-pirate groups CAN work.
Whenever VPR's attack us, we generally win, BUT, as long as we are fighting, we tend to not notice traders passing through (except once or twice I blew up a trader during the battle, but honestly it was only to rile up the VPR's). Maybe you guys haven't pursued this outlet enough.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I never fly a valk.
however, I will add the following story:
I was wandering between Bractus and Edras, looking to make use of my recently acquired license to kill itanis. Sure enough, an itani trader comes into pelatus. Just as I see him, another itani jumps into the system and waylays me. While I win that fight, the trader escapes unharmed, and I get no cash out of it. So clearly, anti-pirate groups CAN work.
Whenever VPR's attack us, we generally win, BUT, as long as we are fighting, we tend to not notice traders passing through (except once or twice I blew up a trader during the battle, but honestly it was only to rile up the VPR's). Maybe you guys haven't pursued this outlet enough.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and I never fly a valk.
Was just an example of preffered ships, for all I care you choose a centurion or a marauder or... I just knew that you used to fly nothing but valks (in the beginning even triflare).
They can work yes, but in general they don't. The best way to make sure they do work is by making them supported in game. But since that would make pirates at a disadvantage, I prefer to have an in-game sustenance of pirates to. At the same time limiting them to a certain percentage, to make sure both sides keep the competetivity.
And nobody stated that you could not hunt together with for instance icarus and borg... or with the normal pk-ers. The only difference is that you can just not call it piraitng but pk-ing(in the last example). But there would be only a handfull of pirates (and the rest would want to aspire to that). Not to mention that I can not imagine pirates to be grouppeople unless out of real need. For example to take on a big transport group or to attack a transport with escorts. Normally pirates are for the rest loners. And pick on the loosely defended traders. I don't see multiple robbers take on a simple postcourier, but see them going for banks and moneytransports. Not to mention that pirates seem to me more like a group of bullies whom cheat and pilfer and don't care about proper manners (therefore wouldn't mind to slit someones throat if it advances them making possibly more enemies).
Actually, in my opinion all non heavy ships outside of the marauder are kind of balanced with each other(on some minor adjustments). And if a trader in a wraith sticks and fights in stead of runs then single player pirating is very well possible, if the pirate is better in skill then the trader. And that is how it should be, isn't it?
The only problem why pirating on a running person is hard is because the sunflares are still somewhat on the heavy side. At least that is how I see it. But if this gets fixed, it would not prove a problem anymore.
They can work yes, but in general they don't. The best way to make sure they do work is by making them supported in game. But since that would make pirates at a disadvantage, I prefer to have an in-game sustenance of pirates to. At the same time limiting them to a certain percentage, to make sure both sides keep the competetivity.
And nobody stated that you could not hunt together with for instance icarus and borg... or with the normal pk-ers. The only difference is that you can just not call it piraitng but pk-ing(in the last example). But there would be only a handfull of pirates (and the rest would want to aspire to that). Not to mention that I can not imagine pirates to be grouppeople unless out of real need. For example to take on a big transport group or to attack a transport with escorts. Normally pirates are for the rest loners. And pick on the loosely defended traders. I don't see multiple robbers take on a simple postcourier, but see them going for banks and moneytransports. Not to mention that pirates seem to me more like a group of bullies whom cheat and pilfer and don't care about proper manners (therefore wouldn't mind to slit someones throat if it advances them making possibly more enemies).
Actually, in my opinion all non heavy ships outside of the marauder are kind of balanced with each other(on some minor adjustments). And if a trader in a wraith sticks and fights in stead of runs then single player pirating is very well possible, if the pirate is better in skill then the trader. And that is how it should be, isn't it?
The only problem why pirating on a running person is hard is because the sunflares are still somewhat on the heavy side. At least that is how I see it. But if this gets fixed, it would not prove a problem anymore.
well, sticking and fighting isn't really the point. I'm not after the kill. I ask for money, and if they don't give it to me, then I kill them. If they run, then if I see them again, I don't warn them, because that's the only threat I can hold over their head.
As far as what pirates normally are... Normally, pirates have a crew :).
Pirates need not be uncouth. It seems you're basing a lot of your ideas on pirates from popular hollywood movies :).
As far as what pirates normally are... Normally, pirates have a crew :).
Pirates need not be uncouth. It seems you're basing a lot of your ideas on pirates from popular hollywood movies :).
shape,
so your not a pirate... just a racketeer (sp?). It's somebody who asks money from a shopkeeper to make this shopkeeper not get any nasty experiences like gettign his shop smashed in,...
Still in my opinion the fun in getting pirated is actually fighting off the pirate. If he fails and runs or gets killed then the trader(me) feels good and contineous on his trip. If the trader gets killed then so be it, at least the other guy was more skilled. And I always believed that that was the idea of piracy in this game. Namely the best pilot gets the cargo if he is getting waylaid. In cases of a grouptransport, then you will need to stick and fight also just to be able to get to the transport. If the trader got killed easilly then he will the next time comply to that price. If their was however a small margin, then it can be that the trader will take his chance to test your mettle.
Yes normally pirates have a crew, but they are on 1 ship... Not to mention that traders have a crew also... So that point is moot.
Well like you say, it are popular movies, but if people didn't agree to that or didn't find that the romantic part (so to say) in pirating, these movies would not be so popular and acceptable as a decent representation.
Not to mention that picturing crooks as nice and dandy people is some kind of a strange euphemisme at least in my opinion.
so your not a pirate... just a racketeer (sp?). It's somebody who asks money from a shopkeeper to make this shopkeeper not get any nasty experiences like gettign his shop smashed in,...
Still in my opinion the fun in getting pirated is actually fighting off the pirate. If he fails and runs or gets killed then the trader(me) feels good and contineous on his trip. If the trader gets killed then so be it, at least the other guy was more skilled. And I always believed that that was the idea of piracy in this game. Namely the best pilot gets the cargo if he is getting waylaid. In cases of a grouptransport, then you will need to stick and fight also just to be able to get to the transport. If the trader got killed easilly then he will the next time comply to that price. If their was however a small margin, then it can be that the trader will take his chance to test your mettle.
Yes normally pirates have a crew, but they are on 1 ship... Not to mention that traders have a crew also... So that point is moot.
Well like you say, it are popular movies, but if people didn't agree to that or didn't find that the romantic part (so to say) in pirating, these movies would not be so popular and acceptable as a decent representation.
Not to mention that picturing crooks as nice and dandy people is some kind of a strange euphemisme at least in my opinion.
Dick Turpin, Robin Hood, Zorro...
Its not exactly a new euphemism now is it.
Its not exactly a new euphemism now is it.
While I was scrambling for my 51 buskill badge (which I finally got) I became a pirate; turned out I'm the world's lamest pirate...
I'd kill someone, and then /msg them saying "Sorry, I need the buskill. Your cargo's still here, I'll keep it warm, come back here and take it back. I won't kill you and I'll give you 20k for your trouble."
-:sigma.SB
I'd kill someone, and then /msg them saying "Sorry, I need the buskill. Your cargo's still here, I'll keep it warm, come back here and take it back. I won't kill you and I'll give you 20k for your trouble."
-:sigma.SB
There are a few things that really strike me as odd in this thread:
1) Yoda was a noob? :-)
2) pirates exist. most of them are surprisingly nice.
3) they don't ask for a lot of money.
4) they are pretty easy to run from if you use a fast ship.
5) excursions? where? grey space? why?
6) if the game is to be fun for all, it is supposed to be fun for
pirates too.
and no, I'm no pirate. I'm pirate-fodder. do I complain? no, I don't. I go into their areas with the knowledge of what I'm getting in to. I'm the one making the act of going to their space -- except when Yoda killed me in UIT space since I can't type. :-)
Alamar
1) Yoda was a noob? :-)
2) pirates exist. most of them are surprisingly nice.
3) they don't ask for a lot of money.
4) they are pretty easy to run from if you use a fast ship.
5) excursions? where? grey space? why?
6) if the game is to be fun for all, it is supposed to be fun for
pirates too.
and no, I'm no pirate. I'm pirate-fodder. do I complain? no, I don't. I go into their areas with the knowledge of what I'm getting in to. I'm the one making the act of going to their space -- except when Yoda killed me in UIT space since I can't type. :-)
Alamar
uncledave,
robin hood, nor zorro are pirates.
It would be the same as pirating pirates. Example yoda pirating spider, or uncledave pirating yoda or... Since stealing from a thief can't be called stealing now can it. Not to mention that in the eyes of the innocent (so non pirating) these people are considered to be saviors.
Terjekv:
Yup if you use a fast ship. And by chance a tradingship is a heavy ship or a slow ship.
And yes pirating has to be fun for the pirate, but if a certain role is not to your liking, then sorry but you don't fit that role and you should choose another, this example being a pirate. (there are more then enough other options of haivng pvp or just plain old pk-ing). While there is only 1 serious option of gaining faction or building up a moneystash.
PS: sorry for being a gravedigger, but I just moved to france :D
robin hood, nor zorro are pirates.
It would be the same as pirating pirates. Example yoda pirating spider, or uncledave pirating yoda or... Since stealing from a thief can't be called stealing now can it. Not to mention that in the eyes of the innocent (so non pirating) these people are considered to be saviors.
Terjekv:
Yup if you use a fast ship. And by chance a tradingship is a heavy ship or a slow ship.
And yes pirating has to be fun for the pirate, but if a certain role is not to your liking, then sorry but you don't fit that role and you should choose another, this example being a pirate. (there are more then enough other options of haivng pvp or just plain old pk-ing). While there is only 1 serious option of gaining faction or building up a moneystash.
PS: sorry for being a gravedigger, but I just moved to france :D
Congrats on your move. You know, I have been playing for just over a month now. I have been pirated twice. Once by yoda, who couldn't catch me (chewy at the time) and once by [syn]noob who came after my maud in a bus and gave me my first pk.
I have been killed without warning by another player (Amarus I think it was) twice in just a few minutes while mining for XP just outside a station in grey space (Xith outside a Sedina station, I imagine). It was my fault for not even being at the keyboard while I was waiting (I think I was having a snack).
So it's not like there is an environment where people are griefing others for no reason and pirating newbies without warning. At least, that has been my experience, even in grey space.
It's getting to the point where I'm having to actually divert my trading routes just to cross the latos/sedina wormhole in order to attract a pirate's attention. Maybe I should change over to a slower ship like a Wraith so they would at least give it a shot. You know, back in the TradeWars days pirates used to care. Nowadays, they don't even pay you any attention unless you tell them a few jumps ahead of time and let them know if you are carrying anything valuable. Sheesh. It's becoming more and more work for an honest, simple trader anymore... ;)
I have been killed without warning by another player (Amarus I think it was) twice in just a few minutes while mining for XP just outside a station in grey space (Xith outside a Sedina station, I imagine). It was my fault for not even being at the keyboard while I was waiting (I think I was having a snack).
So it's not like there is an environment where people are griefing others for no reason and pirating newbies without warning. At least, that has been my experience, even in grey space.
It's getting to the point where I'm having to actually divert my trading routes just to cross the latos/sedina wormhole in order to attract a pirate's attention. Maybe I should change over to a slower ship like a Wraith so they would at least give it a shot. You know, back in the TradeWars days pirates used to care. Nowadays, they don't even pay you any attention unless you tell them a few jumps ahead of time and let them know if you are carrying anything valuable. Sheesh. It's becoming more and more work for an honest, simple trader anymore... ;)
People who mine are targets. nothing but targets. Especially if they mine outside stations :)
Yep. Learned that quickly :).
Let me just say, as a pure trader who never fights and has no player kills, that my rare encounters with pirates, while sometimes costly, are half of what makes this game worth playing. I get such a rush when a pirate with a name I recognize demands some dough, or just starts smearing me with death. Maybe that's just me...
Nope, that is what you might call the crux or the point that makes trading fun. When you hit u and see yoda awaiting you in sedina b8 it makes your day because you know that you can outrun him because he is what you might call a granny pirate :)
But really, piracy is good stuff. It makes it worthwhile for me to build up my combat and weapons xp so I can get better defenses. Otherwise, why go higher than I need for my marauder (with shiny new axia blasters!)?
But really, piracy is good stuff. It makes it worthwhile for me to build up my combat and weapons xp so I can get better defenses. Otherwise, why go higher than I need for my marauder (with shiny new axia blasters!)?
Actually Lonestar0 that's not quite true. A lot of pirates, if they don't just kill you ask for a "donation".
I've been playing for about 5days now and gotten my character pretty well equiped also had a few different run ins with pirates all of which were amusing and fun not to mention polite. Probably had a few other run in's that i didn't notice while making runs to corvus stations for new ships that i blew up experimenting with piloting tactics on bots. I tend to jump rather fast even when i'm taking a bus to corvus
I see no reason to complain so much and so loudly about pirating since most of them keep it in grey space and it says in numerous places that grey space is a "Dangerous Area" only go there if you are prepared. Not to mention Corvus corporation* (can't remember type for sure) is a "Pirating Company" AKA Blackmarketeer's and that thier stations and section of space isn't a safe area or regularly patrolled by the main Powers that be.
If you are so sure of your idea's about how it should be handled why haven't you posted them in the suggestion forum? And yes I did check to see before I posted.
I see no reason to complain so much and so loudly about pirating since most of them keep it in grey space and it says in numerous places that grey space is a "Dangerous Area" only go there if you are prepared. Not to mention Corvus corporation* (can't remember type for sure) is a "Pirating Company" AKA Blackmarketeer's and that thier stations and section of space isn't a safe area or regularly patrolled by the main Powers that be.
If you are so sure of your idea's about how it should be handled why haven't you posted them in the suggestion forum? And yes I did check to see before I posted.
Because they get moved to roleplaying every frigging time...
/me glares at fm :D
EDIT:
Not to mention that my opinion of having fun is NOT needing to run to survive a piratewaylaying. I have fun when I'm able to either get blown up or blow up the pirate depending on the skill of the person in the ship not on the type of weapon. But prior the heavy ship updates this was impossible (I can not check now because of being in france for 8 months...). Unless you were flying a marauder. Or an atlas as long as you ran as soon as you encountered a pirate. Sticking and fighting had 0 chance of winning (only exception was a marauder). Or when it was some noobpirate.
/me glares at fm :D
EDIT:
Not to mention that my opinion of having fun is NOT needing to run to survive a piratewaylaying. I have fun when I'm able to either get blown up or blow up the pirate depending on the skill of the person in the ship not on the type of weapon. But prior the heavy ship updates this was impossible (I can not check now because of being in france for 8 months...). Unless you were flying a marauder. Or an atlas as long as you ran as soon as you encountered a pirate. Sticking and fighting had 0 chance of winning (only exception was a marauder). Or when it was some noobpirate.
Well, the goal is not to kill the pirate, I mean its possible, but remember you ARE trading cargo. The goal is to get away, so any smokescreen/mine/diversionary tactics that you can come up with should be ideal. This is a hunter-prey relationship.
shape,
I disagree with that, as I have stated many times. in my eyes a ship solely utilised to act as a prey should have 0 to no weaponports (with possibly the exception of a miningport). And depend on escorts to survive pirates. in any other case this ship should have a chance just as well as any other ship (although with skill bridging this difference). to take out the pirate. In % chance if you have a chance of taking out a pirate in the same ship with 100% then in oyur tradeship youll have a chance of 80-90% if you had a chance of taking out the pirate in the same ship as the pirater with 50% then in your tradeship you should have a chance of 40%
I however know that it is impossible to get these percentages correct, but in my opinion that is exactly what a game revolving about skill is about.
If you want this prey/hunter thingy then advocate to the devs to add a ship like the centaur without any weaponports and with a cargo of 150. Ask for a ship like the atlas with 1 mineport and a cargo of 85- 95.
These will be decent as the prey you would like. Prey and hunter demands a Vicious return on investment and not an abysmall one. Meaning if I trade in a marauder I can figtht, I can kill the trader based on skill and I can haul more cargo then the ones that act as a prey. THAT is WRONG. Prey means $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to offset the chance of getting caught.
And once the game opens up to more people (after content gets added) you will understand why I am constantly advocating this change. Since at the moment the universe is underpopulated, which is the reason why pirating is not that big of a deal at the moment. But is in fact still of considerable consequence.
I disagree with that, as I have stated many times. in my eyes a ship solely utilised to act as a prey should have 0 to no weaponports (with possibly the exception of a miningport). And depend on escorts to survive pirates. in any other case this ship should have a chance just as well as any other ship (although with skill bridging this difference). to take out the pirate. In % chance if you have a chance of taking out a pirate in the same ship with 100% then in oyur tradeship youll have a chance of 80-90% if you had a chance of taking out the pirate in the same ship as the pirater with 50% then in your tradeship you should have a chance of 40%
I however know that it is impossible to get these percentages correct, but in my opinion that is exactly what a game revolving about skill is about.
If you want this prey/hunter thingy then advocate to the devs to add a ship like the centaur without any weaponports and with a cargo of 150. Ask for a ship like the atlas with 1 mineport and a cargo of 85- 95.
These will be decent as the prey you would like. Prey and hunter demands a Vicious return on investment and not an abysmall one. Meaning if I trade in a marauder I can figtht, I can kill the trader based on skill and I can haul more cargo then the ones that act as a prey. THAT is WRONG. Prey means $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to offset the chance of getting caught.
And once the game opens up to more people (after content gets added) you will understand why I am constantly advocating this change. Since at the moment the universe is underpopulated, which is the reason why pirating is not that big of a deal at the moment. But is in fact still of considerable consequence.