Forums » Bugs
Guild implementation and structure
Hello
this entry is a consequence to what happened to the EnB guild.
It appears that once the commander is gone, and there are no LT, unless all the concil members can vote a new commander, there is no way to
1 - elect a new commander
2- recruite new guild members
3- appoint new LT, even with the consent of all concil members
The fact that a lot of people play from different time zones, it is very difficult to have all the council member on, and unless there is already a well set structure to inform them, it makes it very difficult to reach any decision. Some people left the game because of this.
As much as I hate to say this, and I know there are a lot of people out there that will resent this, please take note from EnB players that had a lot of involvment with Guilds i nEnB, and take their opinion and suggestions. The way guilds are implemented today in VO, is too simplistic and doomed to fail.
Of course I understand that this is a beta; much more is to come (I hope).
I also think that EnBers had just too much expectations from VO, more than what everyone expected, or wanted to admit to.
Thank you
LeoTheTuscan
Itani Nation
this entry is a consequence to what happened to the EnB guild.
It appears that once the commander is gone, and there are no LT, unless all the concil members can vote a new commander, there is no way to
1 - elect a new commander
2- recruite new guild members
3- appoint new LT, even with the consent of all concil members
The fact that a lot of people play from different time zones, it is very difficult to have all the council member on, and unless there is already a well set structure to inform them, it makes it very difficult to reach any decision. Some people left the game because of this.
As much as I hate to say this, and I know there are a lot of people out there that will resent this, please take note from EnB players that had a lot of involvment with Guilds i nEnB, and take their opinion and suggestions. The way guilds are implemented today in VO, is too simplistic and doomed to fail.
Of course I understand that this is a beta; much more is to come (I hope).
I also think that EnBers had just too much expectations from VO, more than what everyone expected, or wanted to admit to.
Thank you
LeoTheTuscan
Itani Nation
While your comments are welcome, it would be helpful if there were specific suggestions to improve the guild structure. Dropping in phrases like "...doomed to fail" isn't quite as helpful.
Well, I call that venting more than anything. Frustration could be another word for it.
I thought of putting this in the General discussion, but someone suggested to reported as a bug, ie. the guild as implemented does not work very well.
I have no idea how one should be implemented. All I know is that the way it is now, it is not going to work well.
Suggestions (not necessarilly in order or could be combined):
1- the majority of the coucil members can elect a commander, not all, ie, not all need to vote
2- have more LTs; two are not enough if they are in the same TZ.
3- If the commander drops/leaves/terminated, have one of the LT become the commander automatically: to choose? there are very nice random routines you can use. No LTs available? Council member. No Council Member? One of the "active" players, or the first to log in, with a message "You have become the Commander in Chief of your Guild".
I thought of putting this in the General discussion, but someone suggested to reported as a bug, ie. the guild as implemented does not work very well.
I have no idea how one should be implemented. All I know is that the way it is now, it is not going to work well.
Suggestions (not necessarilly in order or could be combined):
1- the majority of the coucil members can elect a commander, not all, ie, not all need to vote
2- have more LTs; two are not enough if they are in the same TZ.
3- If the commander drops/leaves/terminated, have one of the LT become the commander automatically: to choose? there are very nice random routines you can use. No LTs available? Council member. No Council Member? One of the "active" players, or the first to log in, with a message "You have become the Commander in Chief of your Guild".
The 2 lieutenant limit is pretty silly. I can see maybe a 5LT limit. But 2?
I'd like to see guilds out of the game entirely.
That'd fix a lot of problems, and not just "My guild doesn't have a commander anymore!" ones either.
That'd fix a lot of problems, and not just "My guild doesn't have a commander anymore!" ones either.
1) You only need majority. 5 is majority of the 9 members
3) Guilds are supposed to be something people stay with for a while. We're not going to randomly choose someone to replace an officer.
3) Guilds are supposed to be something people stay with for a while. We're not going to randomly choose someone to replace an officer.
R on 1) You only need majority. 5 is majority of the 9 members
A: Thank you for the correction.
R on 3) Guilds are supposed to be something people stay with for a while. We're not going to randomly choose someone to replace an officer.
True, and officers are supposed to appoint other officers when they know they will leave the guild or the game.
But then, this is a game, not reality, and as such, you need to account for sudden drops (cancellation of account), pissed off people (there are a lot of those), the "why bother when I will leave and never come back" option, etc, etc.
The selection to the next officer does not have to be random, but could be based on how long such lower rank officer was in the guild in such position:
1- commander leaves
2- higher ranking (longer time) LT becomes commander
3- no LTs, higher ranking coucil member becomes the commander
Remember, this would be only the interim to select a new set of officers, or confirm the new officers structure.
[Note: my mentioning of selecting at random was a little on the sarcastic side; I think going for the next in line is better, dont you think?]
Leo
A: Thank you for the correction.
R on 3) Guilds are supposed to be something people stay with for a while. We're not going to randomly choose someone to replace an officer.
True, and officers are supposed to appoint other officers when they know they will leave the guild or the game.
But then, this is a game, not reality, and as such, you need to account for sudden drops (cancellation of account), pissed off people (there are a lot of those), the "why bother when I will leave and never come back" option, etc, etc.
The selection to the next officer does not have to be random, but could be based on how long such lower rank officer was in the guild in such position:
1- commander leaves
2- higher ranking (longer time) LT becomes commander
3- no LTs, higher ranking coucil member becomes the commander
Remember, this would be only the interim to select a new set of officers, or confirm the new officers structure.
[Note: my mentioning of selecting at random was a little on the sarcastic side; I think going for the next in line is better, dont you think?]
Leo
Actually I've been trying to figure out all these little things for a while to no avail.
It seems that to do a vote you do need at least 5 council members on at one time, and you need whoever you're voting for on at the time of the vote as well.
when someone is offline it gives you the error that they are not in the guild when you vote for them.
I think if the commander leaves a new one should have to be voted in, not a lieutenant taking over automatically.
Ray, If you or John could maybe post the guidelines somewhere... please
I know you're busy :) maybe get Sarahanne to do it :P
-Cam-
It seems that to do a vote you do need at least 5 council members on at one time, and you need whoever you're voting for on at the time of the vote as well.
when someone is offline it gives you the error that they are not in the guild when you vote for them.
I think if the commander leaves a new one should have to be voted in, not a lieutenant taking over automatically.
Ray, If you or John could maybe post the guidelines somewhere... please
I know you're busy :) maybe get Sarahanne to do it :P
-Cam-
In reguards to one person saying they would like to see the guild concept out of the game completly, I want to say that the guild concept is exactly why Wolfpack opted to beta test and eventually make VO our new home.
Rank structures, definitly need work, 1 commander and 2 Lts isnt gonna work well. Especially if they are the only ones that can recruit. Id suggest between 8 and 9 customizable ranks. All guilds are unique to them selves in terms of how they are set up and run. The more a guild can customize and make it self unique, the more the members of that guild feel it is Their guild.
Note: Customizable ranks in terms of how they are named, IE for wolfpack our rank structure was
Alpha Hunter = commander
Beta Hunter = what you now call council
Delta Hunter = Lts
Gamma Hunter
Pack Leader etc: I think you get the picture
All ranks (there where 4) below pack leader where 'members'. where Pack Leader was our Jr Officer level. All members could recruit, but officers could only promote to one rank below them or equal to them.
In another guild the ranks might have differnate names, but essentially the same rights and privalges.
Da Fox
Rank structures, definitly need work, 1 commander and 2 Lts isnt gonna work well. Especially if they are the only ones that can recruit. Id suggest between 8 and 9 customizable ranks. All guilds are unique to them selves in terms of how they are set up and run. The more a guild can customize and make it self unique, the more the members of that guild feel it is Their guild.
Note: Customizable ranks in terms of how they are named, IE for wolfpack our rank structure was
Alpha Hunter = commander
Beta Hunter = what you now call council
Delta Hunter = Lts
Gamma Hunter
Pack Leader etc: I think you get the picture
All ranks (there where 4) below pack leader where 'members'. where Pack Leader was our Jr Officer level. All members could recruit, but officers could only promote to one rank below them or equal to them.
In another guild the ranks might have differnate names, but essentially the same rights and privalges.
Da Fox
I think customizable ranks, with customizable priviledges at each rank is a great idea. This should all be set by the founder when he/she creates a new guild. If there is going to be a numerical limit on the number of people at a certain rank, it should either be set by the guild founder or scaled with the population of the guild. 2 Leutennants for a 100+ person guild is a little impractical.
I like the idea of customizing guilds very much, but with guild support being very, VERY new, I think the way it is now may have to suffice until more important game content is added.
Changing the system around in order to create new classes of guild members with custom titles and abilities seems like it would take a fair amount of time that isn't really available right now.
-Cam-
Changing the system around in order to create new classes of guild members with custom titles and abilities seems like it would take a fair amount of time that isn't really available right now.
-Cam-
I can see your point, and yes the game content is a top priorty. However, you need to realize that the guild concept really isnt all that new. You just had a huge influx of E&B players that have been using this very concept for the last two years. My guild, Wolfpack Xtream is an established guild of over 18 months, and there are a significant number of folks that come from guilds much older than WPX.
what he meant was that the guild implimentation in vendetta is very new. as a matter of fact its exactly the same age as you beta testers. It's one of the few things you are seeing at the same time as the rest of us vets.
Ohhhh ok, i c, ill stand corrected then :)