Forums » Suggestions
Bigger class ships/ multiple batteries/engines
We may be getting into bigger classes of ships soon, so I propose with bigger ships, you should be able to hold multiple batteries/engines. Like what we have now is basically the "Fighter" class, the next step up would be like "Heavy Fighter" class with 2 batteries/engines because the ship is more massive and carries more weapons. Then you have the Freighter class ships with 4 batteries and 4 engines. etc This would not increase the maximum speed of a ship a whole lot, because the higher class ships would be more massive because of the extra hull, cargo space, and or weapons.
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1369
Alot of other older discussion on this topic as well.
One of the biggest limitations to bigger ships at present seems to be the way that angular momentum is handled by the engine. Apparantly it doesn't scale very well. :p
Alot of other older discussion on this topic as well.
One of the biggest limitations to bigger ships at present seems to be the way that angular momentum is handled by the engine. Apparantly it doesn't scale very well. :p
What we need is the multiple-pilots ships. From what I remember of Homeworld a Corvette (Heavy Fighter) had a crew of 2-3 and about 2x the hull of a fighter. It's weapons were slower and more powerful, though. That's what we need to emulate. Also, we need mass before this can happen. If 2xHeavy Engines is a max speed of 120 on a "Heavy Fighter", this is a problem too. I mean, do we really want people to go 120m/s, fire a dozen high-power rockets on somone while facing them in Physics mode, then turn back straight and boost to 300m/s?
Rogue, apparently you read what I said wrong, The bigger class ships would be more massive, thus needing 2 batteries/engines to move, the heavy mass would not let it go 320m/s at max maybe 150 m/s and thats with turbo. Without around 45m/s. And the manueverability of it would be much lower.
Why would you assume that maximum speed is additive?
Thrust is logically additive. Energy cost of turbo is logically additive.
Maximum velocity is not.
All other things being equal, two heavy engines would give you twice the thrust, but the same maximum speed and maximum velocity.
If the ship weighed twice as much as a hornet, and had two engine mounts, it would have the same agility as the hornet. If it also had two battery slots, all other things being equal, then it would be able to use turbo roughly as often as a regular ship.
Of course, you'd probably want to design in several features so that bigger wasn't always better. You'd probably want to make ships with two engines (or more) more than twice as massive as ships with only one so that on average ships with less hull, less weapons, and less available power had an advantage in agility. You'd probably want to have a turbo penalty built into hulls above a certain size, and you might want to have a penalty to maximum speed built into hulls above a certain size.
Thrust is logically additive. Energy cost of turbo is logically additive.
Maximum velocity is not.
All other things being equal, two heavy engines would give you twice the thrust, but the same maximum speed and maximum velocity.
If the ship weighed twice as much as a hornet, and had two engine mounts, it would have the same agility as the hornet. If it also had two battery slots, all other things being equal, then it would be able to use turbo roughly as often as a regular ship.
Of course, you'd probably want to design in several features so that bigger wasn't always better. You'd probably want to make ships with two engines (or more) more than twice as massive as ships with only one so that on average ships with less hull, less weapons, and less available power had an advantage in agility. You'd probably want to have a turbo penalty built into hulls above a certain size, and you might want to have a penalty to maximum speed built into hulls above a certain size.
Weight is not a matter here, but mass is. It would have double the mass, so it would have more momentum requiring more energy to get it moving and to stop it.
Pardon me. I was writing hastily. I meant to say mass where I said weight. Obviously, in zero-g weight is irrelevant. Note, however, that in the fifth text block I did use correctly 'mass' rather than weight.
Rogue, I think the multiple-pilots suggestion is going to be implemented eventually. Quoting from the guildsoftware website, one of the features of the final product will be "Group play: team up to control separate defense turrets on a capital ship, or launch in a fighter from its docking bay to enter the fray more directly. Escort the trading freighter of a friend, or lie in wait to pirate the convoys of your enemy."
Multiple pilots reminds me abit of "attaching" from SubSpace (surely some of u played it). It lets two ships to attach, one player controls the flying and some of the weapons and the other player acts as a turret, with his own weapons. A light ship could attach to a heavy ship to gain it's strength and they have double to firepower, and better aiming..
Soul-Burn: sounds similar to Acolytes in Homeworld: Cataclysm. :D
Soul-Burn: sounds similar to Power Rangers :D
I think you guys are missing a big point here. We probably won't see too many multiple-engine ships in the final release or future builds. Why? Well, let's look at it in real-world scenarios:
Semi trucks: They don't use one or two sport car engines, they have their own, huge industrial-grade engine.
Transport craft: They don't have multiple fighter engines, they have their own heavy engines.
I don't think we'll see frigates with 100 engines or whatever. It might have 3 engine slots that ALL have to be filled with frigate-class engines.
The same way with batteries. We'll see much larger batteries that have a HUGE charge. Even better, forget batteries, heavy craft will have reactors that supply a huge amount of energy instantaneously.
Just my thoughts.
Semi trucks: They don't use one or two sport car engines, they have their own, huge industrial-grade engine.
Transport craft: They don't have multiple fighter engines, they have their own heavy engines.
I don't think we'll see frigates with 100 engines or whatever. It might have 3 engine slots that ALL have to be filled with frigate-class engines.
The same way with batteries. We'll see much larger batteries that have a HUGE charge. Even better, forget batteries, heavy craft will have reactors that supply a huge amount of energy instantaneously.
Just my thoughts.
Sircamps: What, you think every engine used on an airplane is unique?
For instance, the exact same turbines that are in the Boeing 727 are also used to power the XR-71 Black Bird. Prop craft don't mount a bigger engine - they mount two or three or four more engines. Ships don't necessarily mount bigger propellers, bigger diesel engines, and so forth - they mount more engines. In some cases, the transport craft are mounting the same engines (4 or 8 of them) as the fighters. The difference is that the fighter is just about all engine, and the transport craft is a bulky hollow vessel.
Its silly to talk about cars and trucks in this context, because the difference in the scale between a car and even a semi is pretty small. But, if you know anything about say 'tractor pulls' you've probably seen ground vehicals with multiple engines powering them.
I don't think we will see frigates with 100 engines either. But we aren't talking about frigates either. More to the point, putting all this silly realism aside, it would be tedious to equip a frigate with 100 engines. But the medium sized ships we are talking about don't need thier own particular engines. I'm just saying we can use existing gizmos and the same basic technology that powers the single engine fighters we already have. That way we don't have to have twenty different sizes of engines, but maybe just two - one size for every thing smaller than a capital ship, and one size for capital ships. This would also make for an interesting symmetry in the games design. Maybe a Corvette is a single engined capital ship, and the Heavy Battle Cruiser is a four engined capital ship.
But my point is exactly that we aren't talking about capital ships. There is a long way between a 10 or 20 meter fighter and a 200 meter long capital ship. Do you think that there are no ships intermediate in size between 20m and 740m?
For instance, the exact same turbines that are in the Boeing 727 are also used to power the XR-71 Black Bird. Prop craft don't mount a bigger engine - they mount two or three or four more engines. Ships don't necessarily mount bigger propellers, bigger diesel engines, and so forth - they mount more engines. In some cases, the transport craft are mounting the same engines (4 or 8 of them) as the fighters. The difference is that the fighter is just about all engine, and the transport craft is a bulky hollow vessel.
Its silly to talk about cars and trucks in this context, because the difference in the scale between a car and even a semi is pretty small. But, if you know anything about say 'tractor pulls' you've probably seen ground vehicals with multiple engines powering them.
I don't think we will see frigates with 100 engines either. But we aren't talking about frigates either. More to the point, putting all this silly realism aside, it would be tedious to equip a frigate with 100 engines. But the medium sized ships we are talking about don't need thier own particular engines. I'm just saying we can use existing gizmos and the same basic technology that powers the single engine fighters we already have. That way we don't have to have twenty different sizes of engines, but maybe just two - one size for every thing smaller than a capital ship, and one size for capital ships. This would also make for an interesting symmetry in the games design. Maybe a Corvette is a single engined capital ship, and the Heavy Battle Cruiser is a four engined capital ship.
But my point is exactly that we aren't talking about capital ships. There is a long way between a 10 or 20 meter fighter and a 200 meter long capital ship. Do you think that there are no ships intermediate in size between 20m and 740m?
/me points AGAIN to the Acolyte