Even if it can't be targeted by NPC turrets, how hard would it be to make Avalons (and mines) targetable by players?

It's the same issue. It requires defining a whole new weapon type in the protocol, which is not a completely epic ordeal, but is not trivial (and something we haven't done in 8 years? So there might be a lot of unforeseen bugs or assumptions in other areas of code).

The existing weapon types are optimized in certain ways, like lasers not colliding with one another, and not colliding with missiles. This keeps the "potentially collidable set" much smaller (list of "close" objects to churn through to see if they're hitting) and reduces CPU overhead on both the client and the server (especially in cap battle situations). Making "all" missiles collidable with all lasers is not a good idea, but making a new, less-common type that specifically is collidable would be ok. But again, not trivial.

Inc, one crazy idea:

If you make torpedos become like Tiny-Aerna-Seekers? Use a reduced visual model and simlar object model in engine?

Can you spawn a bot right ahead of a given player's ship? If so, much is done...

Make them as slow tiny bots with terrible turn/spin rate, i.e., fly almost straight. Apply a glowing texture and done. Targetable, guided, collidable, and reuses an existing asset...

I prefer to see a torpedo model as a tiny/looong bot than a ball of fire/plasma...

Keep mk.1 with existing stats, make Mk2 have much more power but less rounds, and Mk3 becomes EMP device, drops a trident's shield with its single shot per tube...

Alloh, Have you looked at the projectile Avalons fire? It's a little pointy arrow-head shaped thing with a big blue glowy effect around it. Heck, all of the missiles are kinda like that.

Inc, Thanks for the explanation :)

Alloh: That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure that it would be easier. It would require different added mechanics. Since Aerna Seekers are basically bots that blow themselves up within X distance of a target, the mechanics are pretty different for a user to use that concept as a weapon. First of all you're "firing" a bot at someone, which is basically spawning an NPC, generally not something we allow the client to do. Then, you're giving the bot targeting instructions, because bot-spawning mechanics have nothing to do with weapon-firing mechanics, there's no inheritance of the "firing" ship's angle or velocity. So, inherent "torpedo" mechanics are kind of out the window, unless that was all engineered, which then takes development time.

It's possible, but it may not be any simpler than creating a new weapon type, and it may also introduce a number of other unforeseen issues due to the nature of using.. bots as weapons.

FYI: As of tonight, Avalons now do 15,000 damage and are reduced to 60 energy per shot. Please continue to experiment and post feedback. Things like "extra damage to shields" will take a bit more time.

The damage boost and energy reduction is nice, You can now fire off the entire magazine of two Avalon launchers in a stack without having to start ~3.5km away. I've personally taken down Teradons solo since the update.

Hitting anything with that stack that isn't sitting at a dead stop is still pretty impractical as even the slowest capships in a skirmish can gracefully drift enough to get out of that 10m proximity fuse. I don't see any reason why making them guided would need a speed increase, since guided missiles can be dumbfired by untargeting what you're firing at and just aiming it by sight which you have to do anyways for these as the lead indicator for them (and most other rockets) is practically useless.

I've gone through about 8 of these things in Border Skirmishes so far and their immense splash damage makes them awful for the job. More often then not, friendly fighters get caught in the blast and nothing, not even a SkyProm can withstand two of these. If you use Avalons in Deneb, be prepared to re-take the mission a lot. The cross-fire and fighters also makes lining up to aim them in the larger skirmishes a death trap. A bomber moving in a straight line is a dead bomber.

I also tested them on conquerable station turrets, first at a range of ~2000m which would be somewhat possible if the turrets were actually shooting at you (and if you didn't have to fly in a perfectly straight line to aim them), but after going through about 10 reloads at an approximate 20% hit-rate, i moved in to ~700m so they'd all hit. It takes about 30 direct hits from Avalons to destroy one station turret.

It takes about 30 direct hits from Avalons to destroy one station turret.

And they wonder why there's not much turnover :P

Doc, +1

Yeah, and at 5000c a pop, nobody's going to be using this weapon to conquer stations.

THey'd make a good bunker buster though, during the final "lol I docked first" stage.

+1 rin

I will just put this here, as one possible avalon usage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gILg-wN0Xic