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I must say that I'm impressed with the gameplay tweaks.
The rails are much more deadlier--I would not want to see them messed with anymore (in energy requirement, ammo, or repeat rate). A valk pilot can pack a mean twin-gauss punch and switch to rails to finish off a fleeing target. A vulture can arm two rails and be a deadly enemy to any large ship while neatly avoiding the adv gat.
The rockets.... it's hard to say. You still have to boost up past 100m to make them effective at ranges outside of splash damage range (yes, that's just me, and it's universally agreed that I suck, so take what you will from that analysis). Maybe at 1/second, their velocity could be upped a little bit (with the screamers and jackhammers being upped accordingly).
The rails are much more deadlier--I would not want to see them messed with anymore (in energy requirement, ammo, or repeat rate). A valk pilot can pack a mean twin-gauss punch and switch to rails to finish off a fleeing target. A vulture can arm two rails and be a deadly enemy to any large ship while neatly avoiding the adv gat.
The rockets.... it's hard to say. You still have to boost up past 100m to make them effective at ranges outside of splash damage range (yes, that's just me, and it's universally agreed that I suck, so take what you will from that analysis). Maybe at 1/second, their velocity could be upped a little bit (with the screamers and jackhammers being upped accordingly).
The rockets are absolutely perfect. This has been a controlled nerfing and has improved the balance of the game.
I haven't got to use them yet (and probably won't until tommorrow), but it certainly sounds like a everything is a step in the right direction.
The biggest question raised by these upgrades is, what about the poor neglected Hornet? Doesn't it get some love too? ;)
The biggest question raised by these upgrades is, what about the poor neglected Hornet? Doesn't it get some love too? ;)
I think the devs may have inadvertently nerfed the Hornet with toning down the rockets. Squad rockets were a strong plus for it, but I'm sure people will compensate quickly (quad tachs, for instance, spell death for Rags and Centuars). Quad rails are also very, very deadly (shooting out 5600 damage per shot).
Quad Gauss... 4800 per shot... 2 shots will kill most ships... hehehe
SirCamps, that's the reason I've been whining about the Hornet so much. Although the agility boost from a while back helped it out, I still think a little more needs to be done. But I don't think it's the rockets that nerfed it. It needs to have a torque boost so that the medium engine configuration behaves more like the heavy engine configuration. Anything below the torque of a heavy engine and that thing becomes a flying target all over again. It's very sensitive to changes in agility, due to nature of its ship class.
The gauss also needs to be tweaked. Its autoaim is just way too high for a fighter weapon. Either it needs to be brought to the L-port, or it needs to be toned down a bit so people can actually dodge it easier. OR the speed of tachyons and gravitons can be boosted to make them more of a formidable weapon against gaussers. Right now I'm betting that we'll see more tri-gauss Valks flying around after the recent update, which might even turn out to be worse than before!
The regular gatling gun could also be brought over to the S-port, because of its high spray and inability to autoaim very well. The Centurion needs a weapon that can pack more of a punch. A single gauss, tachyon, graviton, or railgun just doesn't cut it against 99% of the ships. Giving it a regular gatling gun will solve that problem. Although I'd be interested to see how a Ragnarok with three regular gats and two advanced gats would do to an enemy player, assuming it can fire longer than one second.
=)
The gauss also needs to be tweaked. Its autoaim is just way too high for a fighter weapon. Either it needs to be brought to the L-port, or it needs to be toned down a bit so people can actually dodge it easier. OR the speed of tachyons and gravitons can be boosted to make them more of a formidable weapon against gaussers. Right now I'm betting that we'll see more tri-gauss Valks flying around after the recent update, which might even turn out to be worse than before!
The regular gatling gun could also be brought over to the S-port, because of its high spray and inability to autoaim very well. The Centurion needs a weapon that can pack more of a punch. A single gauss, tachyon, graviton, or railgun just doesn't cut it against 99% of the ships. Giving it a regular gatling gun will solve that problem. Although I'd be interested to see how a Ragnarok with three regular gats and two advanced gats would do to an enemy player, assuming it can fire longer than one second.
=)
we need a weapon that sucks when grouped but is good when alone...
Hmm...
Hmm...
Arolte: Would you except a slight decrease in the turbo consumption of the heavy engine as an alternative to making the medium 'heavier'?
I think that the Hornet and Wraith could use 500-1000 hp each now that the other more sluggish ships (and even the Vulture) are getting boosts.
Other than the Hornet being a little too target like with its combination of moderate hp, moderate to low agility, and relatively large cross-section, the big problem it has is that it doesn't have enough power to use all four weapons. That's the real reason a Sunflare downgrade hurts the Hornet. From the Hornet's perspective, bumping up the damage on the rails wasn't nearly as interesting of an idea as bumping down the ammount of energy that they consume. Any time you increase the energy efficiency of a weapon, you are helping the Hornet out. The original Rail, although it was admittedly too good, was a weapon just made for the Hornet. I still think there is alot of room between the current rail, and a rail that's too good. After playtesting this rail out, if it doesn't really 'catch on', I'd like to see the next balance move be bumping down its energy.
Now, if we'd only add light autocannons and flechette guns to counter 'dumb' barrel rolling, move the prox mine to the small slot to deter overruns...
I think that the Hornet and Wraith could use 500-1000 hp each now that the other more sluggish ships (and even the Vulture) are getting boosts.
Other than the Hornet being a little too target like with its combination of moderate hp, moderate to low agility, and relatively large cross-section, the big problem it has is that it doesn't have enough power to use all four weapons. That's the real reason a Sunflare downgrade hurts the Hornet. From the Hornet's perspective, bumping up the damage on the rails wasn't nearly as interesting of an idea as bumping down the ammount of energy that they consume. Any time you increase the energy efficiency of a weapon, you are helping the Hornet out. The original Rail, although it was admittedly too good, was a weapon just made for the Hornet. I still think there is alot of room between the current rail, and a rail that's too good. After playtesting this rail out, if it doesn't really 'catch on', I'd like to see the next balance move be bumping down its energy.
Now, if we'd only add light autocannons and flechette guns to counter 'dumb' barrel rolling, move the prox mine to the small slot to deter overruns...
I LOVE that idea!! A cent with a gatling cannon!!!
Celebrim, you move the prox to small? You really want valks going around laying 3 mines at a time? Erm, no. Leave it as a large, and build it into the Marauder.
I take back what I said about the Hornet--it's perfect. It is agile enough to dodge most gauss shots even from something like a Centurion, but packs enough punch to keep most ships at bay. I was playing online with a heavy/heavy 3 rails + 1 heater or flare, and the thing is deadly!! It takes down everything from Centurions to Rags with ease. It's counters are the Vulture and the Hog, however.
On the Vult, I would like to see it stretched in the Y direction a bit. It's impossible small, it must be piloted by lemmings.
I take back what I said about the Hornet--it's perfect. It is agile enough to dodge most gauss shots even from something like a Centurion, but packs enough punch to keep most ships at bay. I was playing online with a heavy/heavy 3 rails + 1 heater or flare, and the thing is deadly!! It takes down everything from Centurions to Rags with ease. It's counters are the Vulture and the Hog, however.
On the Vult, I would like to see it stretched in the Y direction a bit. It's impossible small, it must be piloted by lemmings.
"You really want valks going around laying 3 mines at a time?"
In the whole history of prox mines, how often have they seriously effected combat? Please, attack me with your all-mine Valk.
"...and build it into the Marauder."
And have the Marauder be the only ship without fully configurable weapons? How many times in responce to things like that have the devs said 'we'd prefer to give the players as much flexibility as possile'. There are alot of things we could easily balance by restricting them, but that is apparantly a non-option as far as the devs are concerned.
In the whole history of prox mines, how often have they seriously effected combat? Please, attack me with your all-mine Valk.
"...and build it into the Marauder."
And have the Marauder be the only ship without fully configurable weapons? How many times in responce to things like that have the devs said 'we'd prefer to give the players as much flexibility as possile'. There are alot of things we could easily balance by restricting them, but that is apparantly a non-option as far as the devs are concerned.
SirCamps, fly around in a medium engine with the Hornet. With the medium engine the ship is as sluggish as it was in 3.2.0. The only thing that makes it bearable is the heavy engine, which is what I'm assuming you used to test it out. Unfortunately you can't really run far with the heavy engine once you're outta energy, which kind of screws you over in that respect. So yeah, there needs to be a higher capacity or quicker recharging heavy battery for strike fighters and bombers.
Also consider this... what if all engines had the same cruising speed? Everything else could remain unchanged--torque, energy intake, capacity, etc. Maybe it might not be the torque that's the problem. Maybe it's because the medium engine is slower and it gives the illusion that it's dodging slower. Everything else is perfect though. The way the reticule wobbles prevents the Hornet from being an uber ship.
Also consider this... what if all engines had the same cruising speed? Everything else could remain unchanged--torque, energy intake, capacity, etc. Maybe it might not be the torque that's the problem. Maybe it's because the medium engine is slower and it gives the illusion that it's dodging slower. Everything else is perfect though. The way the reticule wobbles prevents the Hornet from being an uber ship.
I beg to differ. You really don't need to run in the Hornet with the rails. Odds are you'll damage anyone enough with the rails that they'll back off or keep them at bay with heaters/flares. I got blitz's flare valk in such a loadout. As he turned for the station, a well-placed triple rail shot sent him back to 18.
Again, I don't want the Hornet to be an uber-ship where it can take on everyone. Right now it's effective counters are the Vult and Hog, which I'm fine with.
Celebrim: I got a lot of people ticked off at me in 3.3.x when I had a Wraith flying around laying prox mines in 7. It created a hazard really quickly. Consider something as fast as the Hornet or Valk laying prox mines down like that. You just need one lamer who wants to ruin a fight and you'll have a station surrounded by mines.
An alternative is to make all dropped ordinance immediately detonate if not placed in a rear slot (Hornet, Rag, Centuar, etc).
Again, I don't want the Hornet to be an uber-ship where it can take on everyone. Right now it's effective counters are the Vult and Hog, which I'm fine with.
Celebrim: I got a lot of people ticked off at me in 3.3.x when I had a Wraith flying around laying prox mines in 7. It created a hazard really quickly. Consider something as fast as the Hornet or Valk laying prox mines down like that. You just need one lamer who wants to ruin a fight and you'll have a station surrounded by mines.
An alternative is to make all dropped ordinance immediately detonate if not placed in a rear slot (Hornet, Rag, Centuar, etc).
/me itches to play the game so he can participate in the debate.
"On the Vult, I would like to see it stretched in the Y direction a bit. It's impossible small, it must be piloted by lemmings."
I agree, I HATE the vulture's hit box. I hate it even more than nukes and rocket ramming. I just can NOT hit that damn thing (unless I'm in another vulture).
Just a LITTLE bit. Like say 300 pixels or so? LMAO (yes, that last part about raising the hitbox by 300 pixels IS a joke is not meant to be serious.)
I agree, I HATE the vulture's hit box. I hate it even more than nukes and rocket ramming. I just can NOT hit that damn thing (unless I'm in another vulture).
Just a LITTLE bit. Like say 300 pixels or so? LMAO (yes, that last part about raising the hitbox by 300 pixels IS a joke is not meant to be serious.)
The Vulture is too flat and wide. You could probably get a good compromise by making it slightly taller and trimming the wings down by 1/3 or 1/2. But I think that's just one of those things we're going to have to wait for as old ship models get updated/replaced. I hope it'll be soon, or at least before the end of the year. The devs have been very tight-lipped about it.
/me keeps a very close eye on the In Progress page
/me keeps a very close eye on the In Progress page
furry,
the vult is easy to hit. You need to wait untill it overturns, what happens quite a lot and then spray a couple of gaussbolts. You have to see them scream from fear :D.
I was able to take a couple out with my prom and my wraith and my hog :D
cheers
the vult is easy to hit. You need to wait untill it overturns, what happens quite a lot and then spray a couple of gaussbolts. You have to see them scream from fear :D.
I was able to take a couple out with my prom and my wraith and my hog :D
cheers
A horrendously overpowerful ship!
no some detergentweapons like swarms :D
vults hate swarms "hehe".
gemini work to, but they let me lose 1 small slot and I prefere to use that for the gausses :D
vults hate swarms "hehe".
gemini work to, but they let me lose 1 small slot and I prefere to use that for the gausses :D
no,
it works as well with a tack or a grav or a advanced gatling. You only have got to have the patience and not shoot everything just to have some luck. So energyweapons/ set ups
It isnt only luck that should make you successfull, its ...
it works as well with a tack or a grav or a advanced gatling. You only have got to have the patience and not shoot everything just to have some luck. So energyweapons/ set ups
It isnt only luck that should make you successfull, its ...