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Err... While you may have found the kills on Greenwall were legit, I can surely attest that something with the supposed 60 min. timer on the TUs is borked.
How I know that? I know it because I have been using that TU strategy for a long time. I have dropped a heckton of mines at WHs, went to do some other things in game while getting a random "Sieger destroyed blablabla in Latos H-2" every now and then then. Then, over an hour later I went to log off for the night. Even past log off, tons of people flew in my peristent TUs, as I sometimes had upto to 15 PKs while I wasn't even online.
It's not actually 1 hour. What Washy said is probably true. The sectors "fall asleep" and that stops the persistence timer. If I am not right here (which I doubt, since I'm sure I've often seen my mines way after 1 hour passed), then the playerbase in VO must be MUCH bigger than I thought. Because that'd mean I scored around 30 kills with just planting some TUs in a single hour (some of them online, some of them offline).
How I know that? I know it because I have been using that TU strategy for a long time. I have dropped a heckton of mines at WHs, went to do some other things in game while getting a random "Sieger destroyed blablabla in Latos H-2" every now and then then. Then, over an hour later I went to log off for the night. Even past log off, tons of people flew in my peristent TUs, as I sometimes had upto to 15 PKs while I wasn't even online.
It's not actually 1 hour. What Washy said is probably true. The sectors "fall asleep" and that stops the persistence timer. If I am not right here (which I doubt, since I'm sure I've often seen my mines way after 1 hour passed), then the playerbase in VO must be MUCH bigger than I thought. Because that'd mean I scored around 30 kills with just planting some TUs in a single hour (some of them online, some of them offline).
@Incarnate
Lower the total mine limit on TU's and cut the total expiration time by a minimum of 25%
There have always been strange things happen that change the aspect of persistence when sectors go inactive as wash suggested, a good example is https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/2/33037
TU mines in effect are lasting MUCH longer than a hour, so there's no need to single out Greenwall just because you aren't not in game with us everyday experiencing it firsthand.
Lower the total mine limit on TU's and cut the total expiration time by a minimum of 25%
There have always been strange things happen that change the aspect of persistence when sectors go inactive as wash suggested, a good example is https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/2/33037
TU mines in effect are lasting MUCH longer than a hour, so there's no need to single out Greenwall just because you aren't not in game with us everyday experiencing it firsthand.
If anything id say if the timer is only 1 hour, it is clearly not working properly. Something is wrong, cos we went back and forth through the same minefield without it being relaid for the best part of two hours at least.
But...
My opinion of a weapon such as tu mines is thsy should last a hell of a long time. 1 hour doesnt sound nearly enough - and in the circumstance that initiated the post i was part of the mine suffering side.
I just thought it makes no sense for them to persist beyond logout.
But...
My opinion of a weapon such as tu mines is thsy should last a hell of a long time. 1 hour doesnt sound nearly enough - and in the circumstance that initiated the post i was part of the mine suffering side.
I just thought it makes no sense for them to persist beyond logout.
Yes, and Lmines should be able to be placed in front of docks but that was space magicked out.
If this game was about realism it would be much much different.
This is about balance.
I take great offense to that, there are players who have handicaps that play VO so for you to insult them is pretty unfortunate but we know your post will not be touched and there will be no administrative action taken.
If this game was about realism it would be much much different.
This is about balance.
I take great offense to that, there are players who have handicaps that play VO so for you to insult them is pretty unfortunate but we know your post will not be touched and there will be no administrative action taken.
Do only I find this funny?
Guys like ziggy who have been bragging about TU kills all of the time suddenly gone soft and whiney when someone else is using the same on them?
Testicular fortitude gentlemen.
Guys like ziggy who have been bragging about TU kills all of the time suddenly gone soft and whiney when someone else is using the same on them?
Testicular fortitude gentlemen.
1) Other people have stated here that they have seen TU's persist longer than an hour, I did not just imagine this issue to waste your time. If you needed more evidence you could have asked me in my support ticket rather than publicly call my claims "BS". We did not all independently imagine this issue.
2) I followed protocol and used the ticket system as you have requested, and you then instead tell me to go post in the bug forums, going against what your website says: " If you wish to report a bug that is not exploitative, posting to Bugs is a better solution."
3) I have remained very civil in this thread, despite the vehement attitudes of several here in opposition, and the insults they have leveled
4) Every single one of your responses to me, whether in private, or in public, are dismissive, cold and often quite terse. They display an distinct absence of gratitude or kindness (even superficially), instead expressing a disgust/annoyance/repulsion despite my apparently unnoticed/unappreciated attempts at using these forums, ticket systems and the game itself respectfully and according to your stated policies which you have gone to great lengths to detail.
Before you burned a bunch of time doing log analysis you could have asked me for more observational details, I wouldn't have had any problem with that. In my support ticket I never said the mines that killed me were specifically ones that lasted over an hour. It may have easily just been a coincidence that the mines that killed me were all within their normal lifespans. Now, I will admit that in the OP of this thread I seem to indicate that all TUs last longer than an hour at all times, and this was based on the fact that that was my impression, backed up by the observation of others seeing it occur. Honestly, in my defense, if I see several TUs on different occasions last longer than an hour in space, it is not unreasonable to expect they all do (after all, it's not like I go around and use a stopwatch to time every single TU I see, nor would that be effective because often one is not present when they are dropped). And, truthfully, in the recent incursion of grayspace, it did appear that the mines, at least some of them, had been hanging around for longer than an hour. But, this is not a bug post. This is a suggestion post to address a conglomeration of issues, only one of which is the apparent longer-than-an-hour timeout a TU mine can exhibit (and which to me wasn't clear was a bug until after you clarified the lifespan), and that seemed like the best place to make a change.
I don't do things to waste your time. I specifically brought this issue up because it was having a very negative affect on my and others' gameplay (a very common reason for a suggestion), and, given the nature of the issue (with multiple contributing factors, all of which seemed to be the intended function of the game for all I could tell) I felt addressing the persistency timeout of the TU mine was a fair avenue to have a discussion about adjusting.
If you'd rather use this issue as a vehicle to unfairly single me out and ridicule me publicly in front of others (and not for the first time, mind you), particularly those who truly hate me in game (and love nothing more than to see you burn me), and thus exacerbate the drama which you yourself have repeatedly said you don't have time for, that's obviously your call. I want you to know, however, that it comes across as quite offensive (particularly the public accusation that I made you burn dev time on an issue that doesn't exist), and, as a result you (probably to your great relief) won't be getting any more input from me about your game.
2) I followed protocol and used the ticket system as you have requested, and you then instead tell me to go post in the bug forums, going against what your website says: " If you wish to report a bug that is not exploitative, posting to Bugs is a better solution."
3) I have remained very civil in this thread, despite the vehement attitudes of several here in opposition, and the insults they have leveled
4) Every single one of your responses to me, whether in private, or in public, are dismissive, cold and often quite terse. They display an distinct absence of gratitude or kindness (even superficially), instead expressing a disgust/annoyance/repulsion despite my apparently unnoticed/unappreciated attempts at using these forums, ticket systems and the game itself respectfully and according to your stated policies which you have gone to great lengths to detail.
Before you burned a bunch of time doing log analysis you could have asked me for more observational details, I wouldn't have had any problem with that. In my support ticket I never said the mines that killed me were specifically ones that lasted over an hour. It may have easily just been a coincidence that the mines that killed me were all within their normal lifespans. Now, I will admit that in the OP of this thread I seem to indicate that all TUs last longer than an hour at all times, and this was based on the fact that that was my impression, backed up by the observation of others seeing it occur. Honestly, in my defense, if I see several TUs on different occasions last longer than an hour in space, it is not unreasonable to expect they all do (after all, it's not like I go around and use a stopwatch to time every single TU I see, nor would that be effective because often one is not present when they are dropped). And, truthfully, in the recent incursion of grayspace, it did appear that the mines, at least some of them, had been hanging around for longer than an hour. But, this is not a bug post. This is a suggestion post to address a conglomeration of issues, only one of which is the apparent longer-than-an-hour timeout a TU mine can exhibit (and which to me wasn't clear was a bug until after you clarified the lifespan), and that seemed like the best place to make a change.
I don't do things to waste your time. I specifically brought this issue up because it was having a very negative affect on my and others' gameplay (a very common reason for a suggestion), and, given the nature of the issue (with multiple contributing factors, all of which seemed to be the intended function of the game for all I could tell) I felt addressing the persistency timeout of the TU mine was a fair avenue to have a discussion about adjusting.
If you'd rather use this issue as a vehicle to unfairly single me out and ridicule me publicly in front of others (and not for the first time, mind you), particularly those who truly hate me in game (and love nothing more than to see you burn me), and thus exacerbate the drama which you yourself have repeatedly said you don't have time for, that's obviously your call. I want you to know, however, that it comes across as quite offensive (particularly the public accusation that I made you burn dev time on an issue that doesn't exist), and, as a result you (probably to your great relief) won't be getting any more input from me about your game.
"Alternatively the mines should disappear when a player logs and reappear when they return...."
Not a great idea. That would let you lay a minefield, log off to hide it, and then log in to suddenly spawn the whole thing instantly. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with an official way to put your mines into a stealthed-but-disabled state so that you can manually trigger traps and stuff, but such a mechanic should be deliberate and controlled via sane means, not by logging out and in at critical moments. :P
Not a great idea. That would let you lay a minefield, log off to hide it, and then log in to suddenly spawn the whole thing instantly. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with an official way to put your mines into a stealthed-but-disabled state so that you can manually trigger traps and stuff, but such a mechanic should be deliberate and controlled via sane means, not by logging out and in at critical moments. :P
Wow Incarnate, no wonder this game is the way it is.
i LOVE this game, just show some respect to Devs.
:-D
--
Moebius.
:-D
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Moebius.
Respect is a two way street.
Greenwall, I apologise for being mean and making fun of you being dismissed by a developer. In hindsight it was childish and I don't feel like you deserved an insult on top of an insult.
I deleted my original post, no one deserves to picked while we are all playing a game.
I deleted my original post, no one deserves to picked while we are all playing a game.
More people should follow your example, but it takes a man to admit his mistakes and learn from them.
Blaqk you still owe me 1 bil.
Honestly, in my defense, if I see several TUs on different occasions last longer than an hour in space, it is not unreasonable to expect they all do (after all, it's not like I go around and use a stopwatch to time every single TU I see, nor would that be effective because often one is not present when they are dropped).
1. Are you 100% positive those are the very same TUs? Perhaps after they expired, the miner came along and launched more TUs in the roughly same spots, creating the illusion that they persisted for more than an hour. If the intention of the miner is to control an area for as long as he can, this is very plausible.
2. Being engrossed with something, like a movie or a game, has a way of warping our sense of time. Are you sure that you did not experience this effect? Did you measure time by actually looking at a clock rather than basing it on a feeling?
1. Are you 100% positive those are the very same TUs? Perhaps after they expired, the miner came along and launched more TUs in the roughly same spots, creating the illusion that they persisted for more than an hour. If the intention of the miner is to control an area for as long as he can, this is very plausible.
2. Being engrossed with something, like a movie or a game, has a way of warping our sense of time. Are you sure that you did not experience this effect? Did you measure time by actually looking at a clock rather than basing it on a feeling?
Boda you still owe me a duel.
Greenwall, you a very long history of opening tickets to complain about things, and taking actions to elevate the dramatic impact of problems that affect you (personally).
In fact, you're one of the single largest users of the Support Ticket system, historically. Often not because you're being "helpful", but because you want a reaction.. NOW.
Beyond that, in the past year you've personally gone off on me in the ticket system, with copious foul language, where you "felt" you were being unfairly treated (as it turned out, not true at all).
Over time, this definitely is going to color the perceptions of any administrator who has to deal with your particular brand of using "the rules" to justify anything you want.
Like, for instance, you just wrote this:
2) I followed protocol and used the ticket system as you have requested, and you then instead tell me to go post in the bug forums, going against what your website says: " If you wish to report a bug that is not exploitative, posting to Bugs is a better solution."
And yet, the OBVIOUS meaning there is for tickets to be submitted on exploits, to give us time to address them before they become public and widespread. You know that.
But, you personally posted about the problem on this thread, and THEN you went and made a ticket (with just as little information) 45-minutes later? Was that to help keep it a secret? Really?
NO. It was because you wanted attention, an issue was personally bothering you, and even though you already had a Dev response (and one closed ticket) and obvious attention from me, you wanted to open another ticket just to poke us (me) further.
Let's just say, this isn't the first time we've experienced this behaviour from you.
Honestly, my biggest problem with it is:
A) You're incredibly self-righteous, and never analyze your own behaviour. Even when your logical fallacies are called out, or you're blasting me with accusations over a ticket.. it's always "justified" to you, and therefore never changes or improves.
and..
B) You're a really experienced player. This is what bothers me the most. You KNOW better than all this. You KNOW to make a Bugs post, or when to ticket a real exploit, or when to raise a gameplay problem. You KNOW to NOT try doing them all at the same time, while seemingly throwing some sort of minor fit.
I have very little patience with veteran players who still place their own immediate emotional reactions over a reasonable approach to helping resolve a problem. Creating a Bugs post would have been fine. Or a ticket. Even rolling a Suggestions Thread is ok, albeit kind of a drama-magnet option; but a Suggestion and two tickets? Seriously?
Here's the thing. There was a bug. It (should) now be fixed. I was genuinely quite concerned about the possibility of said bug. I asked Ray to check the logs and the code, and he said all was well in the specific cases checked in the logs, and (obviously) missed the bug in the code.
So, yes, I was definitely wrong about the existence of a bug.
Arguably, my response was too harsh. Taken individually based on this thread alone, it's certainly too harsh.
But, given the full historical context with Greenwall specifically.. I was somewhat restrained.
Frankly, I would rather never have the bug report at all, than have to deal with it in this way.
So, when you tell me "You won't be getting any more input from me about your game", yeah, I'm good with that.
In fact, you're one of the single largest users of the Support Ticket system, historically. Often not because you're being "helpful", but because you want a reaction.. NOW.
Beyond that, in the past year you've personally gone off on me in the ticket system, with copious foul language, where you "felt" you were being unfairly treated (as it turned out, not true at all).
Over time, this definitely is going to color the perceptions of any administrator who has to deal with your particular brand of using "the rules" to justify anything you want.
Like, for instance, you just wrote this:
2) I followed protocol and used the ticket system as you have requested, and you then instead tell me to go post in the bug forums, going against what your website says: " If you wish to report a bug that is not exploitative, posting to Bugs is a better solution."
And yet, the OBVIOUS meaning there is for tickets to be submitted on exploits, to give us time to address them before they become public and widespread. You know that.
But, you personally posted about the problem on this thread, and THEN you went and made a ticket (with just as little information) 45-minutes later? Was that to help keep it a secret? Really?
NO. It was because you wanted attention, an issue was personally bothering you, and even though you already had a Dev response (and one closed ticket) and obvious attention from me, you wanted to open another ticket just to poke us (me) further.
Let's just say, this isn't the first time we've experienced this behaviour from you.
Honestly, my biggest problem with it is:
A) You're incredibly self-righteous, and never analyze your own behaviour. Even when your logical fallacies are called out, or you're blasting me with accusations over a ticket.. it's always "justified" to you, and therefore never changes or improves.
and..
B) You're a really experienced player. This is what bothers me the most. You KNOW better than all this. You KNOW to make a Bugs post, or when to ticket a real exploit, or when to raise a gameplay problem. You KNOW to NOT try doing them all at the same time, while seemingly throwing some sort of minor fit.
I have very little patience with veteran players who still place their own immediate emotional reactions over a reasonable approach to helping resolve a problem. Creating a Bugs post would have been fine. Or a ticket. Even rolling a Suggestions Thread is ok, albeit kind of a drama-magnet option; but a Suggestion and two tickets? Seriously?
Here's the thing. There was a bug. It (should) now be fixed. I was genuinely quite concerned about the possibility of said bug. I asked Ray to check the logs and the code, and he said all was well in the specific cases checked in the logs, and (obviously) missed the bug in the code.
So, yes, I was definitely wrong about the existence of a bug.
Arguably, my response was too harsh. Taken individually based on this thread alone, it's certainly too harsh.
But, given the full historical context with Greenwall specifically.. I was somewhat restrained.
Frankly, I would rather never have the bug report at all, than have to deal with it in this way.
So, when you tell me "You won't be getting any more input from me about your game", yeah, I'm good with that.