Forums » Suggestions
PVP
Hello,
My 1st time posting here, please keep in mind this is just a suggestion, agree or not you are free to post your comment but please keep it on topic and polite.
I come from different game genres, I played simulations, FPS, strategy and so on, on pc on mac on cellphones, but in the few past years was mostly on mobile ipad, this game brought me back to play on my laptops and with a joystick "yay".
Everything in this game is well thought off, I can't fault it, best part it is not pay to win or pay to have fun, you can choose what suits/please you and do it...
The only part that I want to explore and haven't is PVP, although from reading it somewhere that the game is actually based on PVP I find myself wanting it but also cannot do it the way I want, because of the crystals that actually can get in your way because you cannot make them as much as you spend them if you attempt to really learn how to PVP, now please before someone jump to say and devs need a way to make money, am aware of that. That said why i don't purchase crystals or even better a sub which is really really cheap, simply because I can't "and am not gonna explain myself about that", a year ago would have easily picked whatever sub I want or even bought credits crystals etc, simple fact in the present day I can't and don't know when I will be able.
Now that aside here is my suggestion
As i learned there is a sector dedicated for PVP Odia D8! am guessing! I might be wrong, but here is the Idea, why not make a station there and players come with whatever ship they want, they dock and if they want to do PVP they select it as a mission, once that done the player kinda gets an insurance on his ship and add ons in a return of fixed amount of crystals that doesn't break his wallet and this grant him access to the PVP arena with insurance, where he pick his fights/training etc until he had enough, each time he dies he spawn back at that station and enter the arena again without losing his ship, until he decide it is time to move on with other stuff he want to accomplish, he enters the station again end the mission and go on with his routine, and each time he ends his PVP mission and want to PVP again he must pay his insurance for whatever the devs decide to make the fix sum. Now if a player thinks he can beat whoever in that arena without the need to pay his insurance it is up to him, because i know that subbed players don't use crystals and some are probably that good that they know they can survive any PVPer, but it will be a more fair play for the ones that wants to learn PVP and just cannot afford it.
I don't know if technically this is possible or financially for the devs but i believe the suggestion is fair at least for the players that want to learn PVP, usually what is going on now, there are those who are "able" to PVP and those who cannot afford it "me" and so on, which is making the game kinda less PVP oriented? and also less challenging for the Pirates who picks on new comers who have decided to venture to the GREY with no PVP skills at all for the most, thinking if we can kill those hive bots then that's it we are ready, fact is PVP has proven to be a different way more skilled based because it is different from player to player.
Sorry it was a bit of a long post, but wanted to get as much possible of the suggestion i have without getting into too much small details.
Safe traveling everybody.
Baby5hark
My 1st time posting here, please keep in mind this is just a suggestion, agree or not you are free to post your comment but please keep it on topic and polite.
I come from different game genres, I played simulations, FPS, strategy and so on, on pc on mac on cellphones, but in the few past years was mostly on mobile ipad, this game brought me back to play on my laptops and with a joystick "yay".
Everything in this game is well thought off, I can't fault it, best part it is not pay to win or pay to have fun, you can choose what suits/please you and do it...
The only part that I want to explore and haven't is PVP, although from reading it somewhere that the game is actually based on PVP I find myself wanting it but also cannot do it the way I want, because of the crystals that actually can get in your way because you cannot make them as much as you spend them if you attempt to really learn how to PVP, now please before someone jump to say and devs need a way to make money, am aware of that. That said why i don't purchase crystals or even better a sub which is really really cheap, simply because I can't "and am not gonna explain myself about that", a year ago would have easily picked whatever sub I want or even bought credits crystals etc, simple fact in the present day I can't and don't know when I will be able.
Now that aside here is my suggestion
As i learned there is a sector dedicated for PVP Odia D8! am guessing! I might be wrong, but here is the Idea, why not make a station there and players come with whatever ship they want, they dock and if they want to do PVP they select it as a mission, once that done the player kinda gets an insurance on his ship and add ons in a return of fixed amount of crystals that doesn't break his wallet and this grant him access to the PVP arena with insurance, where he pick his fights/training etc until he had enough, each time he dies he spawn back at that station and enter the arena again without losing his ship, until he decide it is time to move on with other stuff he want to accomplish, he enters the station again end the mission and go on with his routine, and each time he ends his PVP mission and want to PVP again he must pay his insurance for whatever the devs decide to make the fix sum. Now if a player thinks he can beat whoever in that arena without the need to pay his insurance it is up to him, because i know that subbed players don't use crystals and some are probably that good that they know they can survive any PVPer, but it will be a more fair play for the ones that wants to learn PVP and just cannot afford it.
I don't know if technically this is possible or financially for the devs but i believe the suggestion is fair at least for the players that want to learn PVP, usually what is going on now, there are those who are "able" to PVP and those who cannot afford it "me" and so on, which is making the game kinda less PVP oriented? and also less challenging for the Pirates who picks on new comers who have decided to venture to the GREY with no PVP skills at all for the most, thinking if we can kill those hive bots then that's it we are ready, fact is PVP has proven to be a different way more skilled based because it is different from player to player.
Sorry it was a bit of a long post, but wanted to get as much possible of the suggestion i have without getting into too much small details.
Safe traveling everybody.
Baby5hark
I was kinda surprised of how your and my thread are similar with the content, almost as if I read it before, and the fact that a lot of players had a similar ideas that did not reach the game...
It's important to understand that the idea is far older than Greenwall's post. In fact, the game started out in early 2002 as an arena-based shooter that slowly bolted on MMO content.
It's also important to appreciate that development time is limited (the dev team is small), and while all PvP players believe PvP is "what everyone wants", all traders also believe that improved trading is "what everyone wants", and miners believe that mining is "what everyone wants" and so on. There are a lot of different ways of playing VO.
The idea of instance-based combat arenas, that are somewhat separate from the persistent game, is something that's been long considered, and may still happen.
In terms of "what we've been doing instead" you can simply look at the motivation for Greenwall's post:
There are currently no lasting incentives for PvP offered by the game: the economy is static and unchanging, resources (ore, commodities, addons) are unlimited in supply, territories are unchangeable, stats and badges are essentially symbolic and otherwise unrewarding. Thus PvP has to be entirely self-motivated, wherein lies the fatal flaw.
Notably, since the time of his post, the primary areas of development have been around..
1) The economy no longer being static and unchanging.
2) Resources encountering new limitations and challenges.
3) Territories becoming conquerable.
Thus, what we've actually been working on is the motivation for greater PvP. It's exactly the stuff that Greenwall called out that the game needs to help drive PvP activity.
However, to my mind, even adding all of that "greater PvP motivation" doesn't actually eliminate all the value of an "instant-action" arena experience, I think there is merit to that on its own. But, in the face of development resource limits, one can understand why I would focus on motivating the entire game and also pleasing all play-types, where an arena mode would do neither.
What Greenwall did not respond on, however, is to correct the assumptions from your original post here:
from reading it somewhere that the game is actually based on PVP I find myself wanting it but also cannot do it the way I want, because of the crystals that actually can get in your way because you cannot make them as much as you spend them if you attempt to really learn how to PVP
This is a flawed assumption. Crystals are not preventing you from learning PvP, or "really learning it" or whatever else. You don't need high-end equipment to learn PvP, and you gain more than enough crystals to start down that road. In fact, you can get a pretty good start on it using free gear, if you have someone willing to teach you. Training blasters are also helpful, and can be coupled with higher-end ships to create long-lasting training sessions.
So, basically, for the purposes of getting a handle on PvP.. you already have everything you need, other than the "match-making" side of things. You will need to find a veteran player who is around at the same time as you are, and is willing to do some 1-on-1 training. That is definitely a big part of what an Arena system would provide, but you can do it without that, as many other players have before you.
In closing, there is strong potential we'll do some kind of "instanced arena" concept at some point. I'm not quite sure what it will look like. I always have a shifting catalogue of priorities, based on need, such as.. major server bugs that we discover, or player administrative problems, or all the other "behind the scenes" distractions that come with maintaining an online game like this.
I'm also aware of a potential for e-sports. Adding and adusting prediction monitoring was a big thing for long-term PvP goals as well, as creating more ranking and "benefit" systems around PvP required also mitigating cheating issues with lag-switches, otherwise one just creates a whole new thing for people to get angry about. These are big investments of time (money) and relative risk, so a lot of thinking and planning goes into all of this.
Development always proceeds too slowly for everyone, myself included. But we do keep moving forward.
It's important to understand that the idea is far older than Greenwall's post. In fact, the game started out in early 2002 as an arena-based shooter that slowly bolted on MMO content.
It's also important to appreciate that development time is limited (the dev team is small), and while all PvP players believe PvP is "what everyone wants", all traders also believe that improved trading is "what everyone wants", and miners believe that mining is "what everyone wants" and so on. There are a lot of different ways of playing VO.
The idea of instance-based combat arenas, that are somewhat separate from the persistent game, is something that's been long considered, and may still happen.
In terms of "what we've been doing instead" you can simply look at the motivation for Greenwall's post:
There are currently no lasting incentives for PvP offered by the game: the economy is static and unchanging, resources (ore, commodities, addons) are unlimited in supply, territories are unchangeable, stats and badges are essentially symbolic and otherwise unrewarding. Thus PvP has to be entirely self-motivated, wherein lies the fatal flaw.
Notably, since the time of his post, the primary areas of development have been around..
1) The economy no longer being static and unchanging.
2) Resources encountering new limitations and challenges.
3) Territories becoming conquerable.
Thus, what we've actually been working on is the motivation for greater PvP. It's exactly the stuff that Greenwall called out that the game needs to help drive PvP activity.
However, to my mind, even adding all of that "greater PvP motivation" doesn't actually eliminate all the value of an "instant-action" arena experience, I think there is merit to that on its own. But, in the face of development resource limits, one can understand why I would focus on motivating the entire game and also pleasing all play-types, where an arena mode would do neither.
What Greenwall did not respond on, however, is to correct the assumptions from your original post here:
from reading it somewhere that the game is actually based on PVP I find myself wanting it but also cannot do it the way I want, because of the crystals that actually can get in your way because you cannot make them as much as you spend them if you attempt to really learn how to PVP
This is a flawed assumption. Crystals are not preventing you from learning PvP, or "really learning it" or whatever else. You don't need high-end equipment to learn PvP, and you gain more than enough crystals to start down that road. In fact, you can get a pretty good start on it using free gear, if you have someone willing to teach you. Training blasters are also helpful, and can be coupled with higher-end ships to create long-lasting training sessions.
So, basically, for the purposes of getting a handle on PvP.. you already have everything you need, other than the "match-making" side of things. You will need to find a veteran player who is around at the same time as you are, and is willing to do some 1-on-1 training. That is definitely a big part of what an Arena system would provide, but you can do it without that, as many other players have before you.
In closing, there is strong potential we'll do some kind of "instanced arena" concept at some point. I'm not quite sure what it will look like. I always have a shifting catalogue of priorities, based on need, such as.. major server bugs that we discover, or player administrative problems, or all the other "behind the scenes" distractions that come with maintaining an online game like this.
I'm also aware of a potential for e-sports. Adding and adusting prediction monitoring was a big thing for long-term PvP goals as well, as creating more ranking and "benefit" systems around PvP required also mitigating cheating issues with lag-switches, otherwise one just creates a whole new thing for people to get angry about. These are big investments of time (money) and relative risk, so a lot of thinking and planning goes into all of this.
Development always proceeds too slowly for everyone, myself included. But we do keep moving forward.
Hello Incarnate I believe you are one of the devs, congratulations on many things in vendetta and your patience through all these year developing and maintaining it with a small team and thank you for replying on my post which seems I have risen it from ashes.
I will explain myself a bit more to point out that this was actually an honest suggestion which I did not expect to reach anywhere out of this forum.
"while all PvP players believe PvP is "what everyone wants", all traders also believe that improved trading is "what everyone wants", and miners believe that mining is "what everyone wants" and so on"
I never said that "PVP" is what everyone want I even pointed to myself at some point, I am part of the TRI guild which is based on trading, mining, hive hunting, arm dealers, which have certain rules for PVP even for a portion of missions and places where it is better not to reach, my suggestion was meant not to stand in the way of anything outside the area/arena/sector/room where traders trade, miners mine, pirates pick on noobs etc, maybe i missed making that part clear! actually sometimes i log with no intention on pressing that trigger to shoot and just want to trade or mine or even hang out.
"The idea of instance-based combat arenas, that are somewhat separate from the persistent game, is something that's been long considered, and may still happen."
If i could be part of that it will my pleasure in terms of testing since as you read am handicapped financially.
"In terms of "what we've been doing instead""
I never said that and the idea never crossed my mind, actually i feel that you guys needs congratulations for keeping the game alive all these years.
As for some part of your next reply while it is true "crystals, mentor, low end weapons etc" the idea of the arena is to give the freedom for the players to PVP like in any other PVP shooting game with any weapon/ship of choice as long as your standings and licenses permit them and without having to go through the hustle of buying them again "as long as you are in the arena pvp mission", and without actually having a match making system, plain simple straight forward PVP wether it is ffa tdm ctf one vs one etc.
Now don't consider my suggestion as if am angry or even thinking that the game is missing without it, a pure straight forward suggestion with no intentions behind but to be a reflection of the idea I had which I never assumed it will reach anywhere outside this forum.
I am glad that you guys are aware of that and can't be but positive about it if it makes the game even more populated and benefit you more in the way i can't right now, keep up the awesome job you are doing and again thank you for reaching out to my post.
Safe traveling
Baby5hark
I will explain myself a bit more to point out that this was actually an honest suggestion which I did not expect to reach anywhere out of this forum.
"while all PvP players believe PvP is "what everyone wants", all traders also believe that improved trading is "what everyone wants", and miners believe that mining is "what everyone wants" and so on"
I never said that "PVP" is what everyone want I even pointed to myself at some point, I am part of the TRI guild which is based on trading, mining, hive hunting, arm dealers, which have certain rules for PVP even for a portion of missions and places where it is better not to reach, my suggestion was meant not to stand in the way of anything outside the area/arena/sector/room where traders trade, miners mine, pirates pick on noobs etc, maybe i missed making that part clear! actually sometimes i log with no intention on pressing that trigger to shoot and just want to trade or mine or even hang out.
"The idea of instance-based combat arenas, that are somewhat separate from the persistent game, is something that's been long considered, and may still happen."
If i could be part of that it will my pleasure in terms of testing since as you read am handicapped financially.
"In terms of "what we've been doing instead""
I never said that and the idea never crossed my mind, actually i feel that you guys needs congratulations for keeping the game alive all these years.
As for some part of your next reply while it is true "crystals, mentor, low end weapons etc" the idea of the arena is to give the freedom for the players to PVP like in any other PVP shooting game with any weapon/ship of choice as long as your standings and licenses permit them and without having to go through the hustle of buying them again "as long as you are in the arena pvp mission", and without actually having a match making system, plain simple straight forward PVP wether it is ffa tdm ctf one vs one etc.
Now don't consider my suggestion as if am angry or even thinking that the game is missing without it, a pure straight forward suggestion with no intentions behind but to be a reflection of the idea I had which I never assumed it will reach anywhere outside this forum.
I am glad that you guys are aware of that and can't be but positive about it if it makes the game even more populated and benefit you more in the way i can't right now, keep up the awesome job you are doing and again thank you for reaching out to my post.
Safe traveling
Baby5hark
Deleted this thread accidentally it was straight after Greenwald post reposting:
Greenwald, I can see we have the same point of view and also noticed the date your thread was posted, although I did not go through tiny details or explanation but the idea in general is the same... I used to play couple games by Revo that used to be planes dogfight games, sky gamblers storm raiders and sky gamblers air Supremacy, the games created for any type of pvp were called rooms ctf ffa tdm and so on, if Vendetta online can create such rooms/space/sector where you just log to them that would be awesome beside the routine the game have, I believe my idea is simple and make way for new pilot to venture and explore the pvp in VO in a more relaxed straight forward way, can make an arena for each faction and the main big one in Grey odia B8, I don't know I feel it is not hard to make it happen since the concept is the same like Revo games but in different names, still reading the suggestions on your thread but since am at work am reading slowly, and I was kinda surprised of how your and my thread are similar with the content, almost as if I read it before, and the fact that a lot of players had a similar ideas that did not reach the game...
Baby5hark
Greenwald, I can see we have the same point of view and also noticed the date your thread was posted, although I did not go through tiny details or explanation but the idea in general is the same... I used to play couple games by Revo that used to be planes dogfight games, sky gamblers storm raiders and sky gamblers air Supremacy, the games created for any type of pvp were called rooms ctf ffa tdm and so on, if Vendetta online can create such rooms/space/sector where you just log to them that would be awesome beside the routine the game have, I believe my idea is simple and make way for new pilot to venture and explore the pvp in VO in a more relaxed straight forward way, can make an arena for each faction and the main big one in Grey odia B8, I don't know I feel it is not hard to make it happen since the concept is the same like Revo games but in different names, still reading the suggestions on your thread but since am at work am reading slowly, and I was kinda surprised of how your and my thread are similar with the content, almost as if I read it before, and the fact that a lot of players had a similar ideas that did not reach the game...
Baby5hark
Baby5hark
Incarnate is indeed a developer and founder of Vendetta Online.
"I will explain myself a bit more to point out that this was actually an honest suggestion which I did not expect to reach anywhere out of this forum."
All posts in the Suggestions forum are likely to be read by the devs at some point. That's the whole idea. Your reply to Incarnate's response to you seems defensive, as if you imagined Incarnate's tone to be angry or accusatory. Objectively, Incarnate was providing facts and background on the matter, and did not come off as being offended in any way. Try reading his reply again, but (assuming you "hear" when you are reading) imagine it in a conversational tone that is in response to the entire subject at hand.
Incarnate is indeed a developer and founder of Vendetta Online.
"I will explain myself a bit more to point out that this was actually an honest suggestion which I did not expect to reach anywhere out of this forum."
All posts in the Suggestions forum are likely to be read by the devs at some point. That's the whole idea. Your reply to Incarnate's response to you seems defensive, as if you imagined Incarnate's tone to be angry or accusatory. Objectively, Incarnate was providing facts and background on the matter, and did not come off as being offended in any way. Try reading his reply again, but (assuming you "hear" when you are reading) imagine it in a conversational tone that is in response to the entire subject at hand.