Forums » Suggestions
Ship: The Revenant Striker
Obligatory bad name.
Before I throw some stats out there, let me give my reasoning: The Prometheus (and its variants) is currently an anomaly in the game. The Valkyrie serves to be the epitome of the fighter class of ship: Fast, snappy, and can fight up close or dance at a distance. It can do every single thing every otherfighter in the game can do, but better (save the superlight/corvult's 75 m/s speed). Its edge is also small enough that a skilled player in a "lesser" fighter can absolutely beat a Valkyrie, even a with a small difference in skill.
The Prometheus serves as the Serco equivalent in being the absolute top in its class... except there are no other ships in its class. The Prometheus is singularly unique in its ability to be snappy enough to not get completely out-flown by a fighter while hitting hard enough to make up for the hits landed on it. No other ship flies like this. The Tunguska Centaur is "close" but still presents too large a target. The base forms of the Revenant have the same weapon loadout, but vastly less armor and clunky all-around handling. The Axia Guardian Wraith is better but then presents a huge hitbox for too small of an upgrade.
Not only are these ships no match in their own class, but they are even more of sitting ducks when they go up against fighters. A Prometheus can with regularity beat a Valkyrie. The same cannot be said about any of these other ships. I have played against some excellent Prometheus pilots trying to make the same playstyle work on the Revenant, Wraith, or Tungtaur, and the gap in power is simply laughable.
So... The Revenant Striker:
Faction: Xang Xi (they don't got no ships)
Mass: 9000 Kg
Level: 5/3/7/2/-
Armor: 14000
Cargo: 2 cu
Weapons: 2S, 1L
Length: 13 m
Thrust: 450 N
Turbo Thrust: 500 N
Max Speed: 65 m/s
Turbo Speed: 200 m/s
Spin Torque: 10 Nm
Turbo Energy: 55/s
The purpose here is to give some sort of ship that non-Serco players can use to get a feel for the Prom's unique type of combat without having it surpass it in any way. I may have actually been conservative here, but without access to the actual calculations of how mass, torque, thrust are all connected (or being able to test it easily) I just kinda eyeballed it. I know a shorter overall length affects turn speed, for example, but not how much.
Anyway.
What would be really cool about this is that someone skilled in this ship might be able to give a worse Prom player a run for his money (much as a good Corvult/Rev C pilot could do to a Valk) without truly surpassing it. It also would give Serco players a decent backup for the playstyle without lugging their butts back to Initros (again, much as the Itani can do with the other fighters).
Diversity in playstyles is awesome. I think this would be a neat way to do that.
Before I throw some stats out there, let me give my reasoning: The Prometheus (and its variants) is currently an anomaly in the game. The Valkyrie serves to be the epitome of the fighter class of ship: Fast, snappy, and can fight up close or dance at a distance. It can do every single thing every otherfighter in the game can do, but better (save the superlight/corvult's 75 m/s speed). Its edge is also small enough that a skilled player in a "lesser" fighter can absolutely beat a Valkyrie, even a with a small difference in skill.
The Prometheus serves as the Serco equivalent in being the absolute top in its class... except there are no other ships in its class. The Prometheus is singularly unique in its ability to be snappy enough to not get completely out-flown by a fighter while hitting hard enough to make up for the hits landed on it. No other ship flies like this. The Tunguska Centaur is "close" but still presents too large a target. The base forms of the Revenant have the same weapon loadout, but vastly less armor and clunky all-around handling. The Axia Guardian Wraith is better but then presents a huge hitbox for too small of an upgrade.
Not only are these ships no match in their own class, but they are even more of sitting ducks when they go up against fighters. A Prometheus can with regularity beat a Valkyrie. The same cannot be said about any of these other ships. I have played against some excellent Prometheus pilots trying to make the same playstyle work on the Revenant, Wraith, or Tungtaur, and the gap in power is simply laughable.
So... The Revenant Striker:
Faction: Xang Xi (they don't got no ships)
Mass: 9000 Kg
Level: 5/3/7/2/-
Armor: 14000
Cargo: 2 cu
Weapons: 2S, 1L
Length: 13 m
Thrust: 450 N
Turbo Thrust: 500 N
Max Speed: 65 m/s
Turbo Speed: 200 m/s
Spin Torque: 10 Nm
Turbo Energy: 55/s
The purpose here is to give some sort of ship that non-Serco players can use to get a feel for the Prom's unique type of combat without having it surpass it in any way. I may have actually been conservative here, but without access to the actual calculations of how mass, torque, thrust are all connected (or being able to test it easily) I just kinda eyeballed it. I know a shorter overall length affects turn speed, for example, but not how much.
Anyway.
What would be really cool about this is that someone skilled in this ship might be able to give a worse Prom player a run for his money (much as a good Corvult/Rev C pilot could do to a Valk) without truly surpassing it. It also would give Serco players a decent backup for the playstyle without lugging their butts back to Initros (again, much as the Itani can do with the other fighters).
Diversity in playstyles is awesome. I think this would be a neat way to do that.
+1 I think an Itani could use this to match the prom slightly and that would be fun.
Exactly! And much in the same way you can tell an Itani player to come out of his Valk and fight you on even footing in an accessible fighter, you could tell a Serco player to jump out of the prom and fight you in an accessible strike ship.
+1
+1
I may have actually been conservative here, but without access to the actual calculations of how mass, torque, thrust are all connected (or being able to test it easily) I just kinda eyeballed it.
The physics in the game goes completely against all physics calculations in many cases. So I wouldn't bank on it much. For example, with the current stats of a moth, it should accelerate at approx 0.47m/s² under full turbo, when empty. This is clearly not the case.
I may have actually been conservative here, but without access to the actual calculations of how mass, torque, thrust are all connected (or being able to test it easily) I just kinda eyeballed it.
The physics in the game goes completely against all physics calculations in many cases. So I wouldn't bank on it much. For example, with the current stats of a moth, it should accelerate at approx 0.47m/s² under full turbo, when empty. This is clearly not the case.
+1 I've been recently loving Rev mk3 as a mini prom but it gets crushed against any faster fighter ship cuz it just doesn't handle nicely
This suggestion ultimately aims to fill a teensy little niche (direct 1v1 top-tier pvp). As such it wouldn't really increase "diversity of playstyles" in a significant way.
I agree with greenwall.
The OP has stated:
The Prometheus serves as the Serco equivalent in being the absolute top in its class... except there are no other ships in its class.
There is no reason for any other ship to be in its class. This proposed ship is just for balanced pewing. As Inc has stated elsewhere:
Not all ships (or factions) are supposed to be all things to all people, or a 1:1 match against everyone else.
IMO, if someone wants to fly the prom, they have six slots.
The OP has stated:
The Prometheus serves as the Serco equivalent in being the absolute top in its class... except there are no other ships in its class.
There is no reason for any other ship to be in its class. This proposed ship is just for balanced pewing. As Inc has stated elsewhere:
Not all ships (or factions) are supposed to be all things to all people, or a 1:1 match against everyone else.
IMO, if someone wants to fly the prom, they have six slots.
>Not all ships (or factions) are supposed to be all things to all people, or a 1:1 match against everyone else.
How is this, in any way, what I asked for?
>IMO, if someone wants to fly the prom, they have six slots.
Imagine if all fighters were removed and the argument against them coming back was "if someone wants to fly a Valk, they have six slots".
>This suggestion ultimately aims to fill a teensy little niche (direct 1v1 top-tier pvp).
What does the Rev C do that the Vulture doesn't? Or the IBG? These ships are, for the most part, redundant in playstyle, pretty much only mattering for "1v1 top-tier pvp". There are tiny differences, I'll agree, but they pale in comparison to say, the Corvus Marauder, Ragnarok, Greyhound, or... the Prometheus. And that type of fighting is completely locked to one faction - not embodied by the faction, as the Valk embodies the Itani - just completely locked away. I don't know how you could say it wouldn't change playstyles. It's something that doesn't have to back down against an agile fighter, and certain players can make it work better than they could ever do with a fighter. I think giving them that chance without them being able to surpass the Prometheus is completely valid, and you would see it flown outside of pews.
How is this, in any way, what I asked for?
>IMO, if someone wants to fly the prom, they have six slots.
Imagine if all fighters were removed and the argument against them coming back was "if someone wants to fly a Valk, they have six slots".
>This suggestion ultimately aims to fill a teensy little niche (direct 1v1 top-tier pvp).
What does the Rev C do that the Vulture doesn't? Or the IBG? These ships are, for the most part, redundant in playstyle, pretty much only mattering for "1v1 top-tier pvp". There are tiny differences, I'll agree, but they pale in comparison to say, the Corvus Marauder, Ragnarok, Greyhound, or... the Prometheus. And that type of fighting is completely locked to one faction - not embodied by the faction, as the Valk embodies the Itani - just completely locked away. I don't know how you could say it wouldn't change playstyles. It's something that doesn't have to back down against an agile fighter, and certain players can make it work better than they could ever do with a fighter. I think giving them that chance without them being able to surpass the Prometheus is completely valid, and you would see it flown outside of pews.
IonicPaul,
I apologize if I angered you for some reason. We just have a difference in opinion, which is perfectly ok. I feel that debate is a great way for the best ideas to rise to the top. So if my responses seem to annoy you, that is not my intent.
That all said, what I don't want to see in VO is the ship options getting too homogenized. I feel that if someone has a play style that needs the valk, and they lose a valk, well they better have hauled a million valks to grey. Same for prom jocks. There are, of course, some standins that work in a pinch. Prom pilots normally go for Revenants or tungtaurs. And valk pilots will sometimes gravitate to cormauds.
I am watching this thread with great interest.
I apologize if I angered you for some reason. We just have a difference in opinion, which is perfectly ok. I feel that debate is a great way for the best ideas to rise to the top. So if my responses seem to annoy you, that is not my intent.
That all said, what I don't want to see in VO is the ship options getting too homogenized. I feel that if someone has a play style that needs the valk, and they lose a valk, well they better have hauled a million valks to grey. Same for prom jocks. There are, of course, some standins that work in a pinch. Prom pilots normally go for Revenants or tungtaurs. And valk pilots will sometimes gravitate to cormauds.
I am watching this thread with great interest.
My... passion on the matter isn't meant to be vitriol. I just think I've happened upon a decent idea! To respond to your example, I'd like the "Serco equivalent" to how a Valk pilot reacts when he loses his last and doesn't want to go all the way to Jallik. When he picks up a CorVult or Rev C, he's likely to be able to apply 90% of his playstyle to that ship. Of course, there are things the Valk can do that the substitute can't, but it can do most of it. If the player goes up against a top-tier ship he very likely has a chance against it. Of course a Valk would be *better* but he's able to hold his own.
You can't do this as a prom pilot currently. Against top tier pilots the Prom is viable - the revenant and tungtaur simply aren't, in all my experience. There's a threshold of being able to move that these ships just don't hit, so they're just flying targets.
I understand the want to not homogenize combat - but that's why I want this ship to be around. I want a ship with a different playstyle from the dominant agile fighters that isn't nation-locked. And, once again, I want the nation-locked ship to be indisputably better. In a way, if this ship works out right, it would be the "corvult" of the strike-type ship - whereas the vult has a smaller profile but less health and damage output than the valk, the Strike Revenant would have a smaller profile than the prom, also with less health and maneuverability.
You can't do this as a prom pilot currently. Against top tier pilots the Prom is viable - the revenant and tungtaur simply aren't, in all my experience. There's a threshold of being able to move that these ships just don't hit, so they're just flying targets.
I understand the want to not homogenize combat - but that's why I want this ship to be around. I want a ship with a different playstyle from the dominant agile fighters that isn't nation-locked. And, once again, I want the nation-locked ship to be indisputably better. In a way, if this ship works out right, it would be the "corvult" of the strike-type ship - whereas the vult has a smaller profile but less health and damage output than the valk, the Strike Revenant would have a smaller profile than the prom, also with less health and maneuverability.