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A Mile is as Good As a Hit

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Apr 22, 2004 Pirogoeth2 link
Explosions aren't ineffective in space if there is oxygen to burn. So lets say that the flare contains a part oxygen it could create an explosion.
Apr 22, 2004 Starfisher link
You would need a lot of oxygen, and then the energy you created would dissipate much to quickly to have an effect. I always figured sunflares were basically grenades... they rely on fragments of metal to do damage, not the explosion itself.

So when the flares explode right next to you, your ship intercepts a large amount of shrapnel. If they explode 60m away, the fragments are much more spread out, your ship gets hit by fewer, and therefore you take less damage.

That explanation makes more sense if you're trying for a "realistic" perspective... without an atmosphere conventional explosives lose their sonic shockwave and their fireball. They don't release enough radiation to do anything, so unless each sunflare is a tiny nuke the only thing left to do damage is the metal in the sunflare itself.
Apr 22, 2004 Hoax link
For the record, most things that explode come with thier own things to burn, they don't light the air they blow up in on fire, a can of gasoline exploding is another matter, this is vapors mixing with air and igniting. But real explosives are different.

That's why something like C4(most common plastic explosive) will blow up underwater, on land or, yes, even in outerspace. In general an explosive compound has hydrogen and oxygen molecules that when liberated via the explosion (it's a chain reaction kind of thing) ignite and expand and continue the cycle until the entire compound is used up. The more hydrogen a compound has per molocule the quicker it will expand. This is why C4 blows up harder than TNT or dynamite.

Side note, C4 is called C4 or composition 4 because it has 4 OH's attached to each molocule. There is C6 used in anti-tank mines (its powdery) and composition B used for, um 'bouncing betties' I think. Those landmines that pop up about 5' in the air before they explode (nasty).

RELATIVE EFFECTIVENESS FACTOR or RF

TNT has an RF of 1.00 (it's what the scale is based on)
Dynamite is about .6 (lots of different dynamite recipes)
C4 is 1.35
Amonium Nitrate (fertalizer bomb) is .4ish

Note a low RF is good for pushing or moving things like dirt or buildings. A high RF is good for cutting things like steel or ship hulls.
Apr 22, 2004 Magus link
/me makes a mental note not to open any packages sent by Hoax.

;-)
Apr 22, 2004 Celkan link
/me does as well.
Apr 22, 2004 Celebrim link
"Explosions aren't ineffective in space if there is oxygen to burn. So lets say that the flare contains a part oxygen it could create an explosion."

You are missing the point. It isn't a question of combustibility. The assumption here is that the explosive provides whatever oxygen needed for the blast. Obviously, you won't be useing a fuel-air explosive. For that matter, a nuclear blast doesn't produce energy through combustion anyway.

The point is that an explosion in a vacuum isn't pushing on anything. An explosion that occurs in water transfers more energy over a longer distance than one which occurs in air. This is because water is not compressible. It is a better medium for transfering the force of the explosion. A vacuum is a really bad medium for transfering the force of the explosion. Lacking anything to move, and explosion just inflates. It doesn't create a shock wave like you get with a powerful explosion in air.

The same sort of thing happens with a nuclear explosion in a vacuum. With nothing to push against, all the energy of the explosion tends to get used up producing high frequency X-rays. There is no wave of superheated, supercompressed air to knock anything over with. All you get is the big flash that you get in the first few milliseconds of a nuclear detonation, and actually, in space most of that flash would be invisible to the naked eye in X-Rays or Gamma rays.

There is a reasonably good discussion at this link:

http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/waw/mad/mad12.html

UPDATE: Well, it looks like Hoax beat me to it. Demolition training? Mind if I ask what unit?
Apr 22, 2004 Hoax link
U.S. Marines 6th Engine Support Battalion, Combat Engineer, Demolition, EOD, Mine and Anti-Mine warefare, blah blah ... all the fun stuff. Gulf War I too.

I also have relatives in Montanna

/me likes splosions
Apr 22, 2004 Starfisher link
"I also have relatives in Montanna"

Heh, that made the post ;)
Apr 23, 2004 RelayeR link
<Hoax> "I also have relatives in Montanna"

Now, THAT is scarry!!

I still think a flare should do more damage at 50m to the top of a Vult than at 20m to the nose.
Apr 23, 2004 Celkan link
I'm going by current damage code for the first question.

On the second one I went by which would exert more force on the Vulture more than damage.