Forums » Suggestions
Right now the station interface is far too bloated, and can be confusing. This is mainly about the buy area.
The buying tab should have 6 tabs below it.
1: All - This shows everything, good for people who are new and have access to very few items.
2: Weapons (s) - A list of the small port weapons.
3: Weapons (L) - A list of the large port weapons.
4: Mining Equipment - A list of the scanners and mining beams you have available.
5: Batteries - A list of the batteries you can get.
6: Trade Goods - A list of the trade goods you can buy.
The buying tab should have 6 tabs below it.
1: All - This shows everything, good for people who are new and have access to very few items.
2: Weapons (s) - A list of the small port weapons.
3: Weapons (L) - A list of the large port weapons.
4: Mining Equipment - A list of the scanners and mining beams you have available.
5: Batteries - A list of the batteries you can get.
6: Trade Goods - A list of the trade goods you can buy.
No, there shouldn't even be a buy tab. Instead, there needs to be something like an high tech internet kiosk which has a local station directory - something like an automated 'yellow pages'. You should begin at the top of the directory with buttons like 'Administration', 'Professional Guilds', 'Military Laisons', 'Embassies', 'Services', 'News', etc. One of the buttons on the graphic should be 'Merchants', and clicking on this should take you to a display of 'shops' which sell particular types of items. Shops should be whimsically but clearly named in some random fashion at the time sectors are generated. Shops should be managed by NPC's, with which you could have a short conversation using the kiosk screen as a 'telephone', and buy wares just like you were shopping over the internet.
Tabs are too gamish. You should be thinking at least at some level, 'Heh, I'm in a station and I'm doing my shopping and "Dave's Discount Devastation".' You should not be thinking, 'Heh, I'm using a peice of software and trying to navigate the interface.'
Extra points if the interface makes some use of Galatic Standard for 'bi-lingual' types.
Tabs are too gamish. You should be thinking at least at some level, 'Heh, I'm in a station and I'm doing my shopping and "Dave's Discount Devastation".' You should not be thinking, 'Heh, I'm using a peice of software and trying to navigate the interface.'
Extra points if the interface makes some use of Galatic Standard for 'bi-lingual' types.
While that might be fun for a while, it would quickly become tedious. I personally think that a futuristic phone tree would be really annoying. Witness how many people ESC through the NPC banter in freelancer.
Why do you go to a base anyway? To buy/sell stuff, equip your ship, or get a mission.
So....
A trade-goods section for buying and selling trade goods.
A Shipyard section for buying & modifying ships (buy guns'n'stuff here)
All other guild/mission related stuff should happen in the bar.
Oh, wait... that's the freelancer interface isn't it?
Well it does work pretty well. Unless they add some new content to the bases that doesn't fit in here, this should cover it.
Maybe a hangar tab for your stuff in storage....
Why do you go to a base anyway? To buy/sell stuff, equip your ship, or get a mission.
So....
A trade-goods section for buying and selling trade goods.
A Shipyard section for buying & modifying ships (buy guns'n'stuff here)
All other guild/mission related stuff should happen in the bar.
Oh, wait... that's the freelancer interface isn't it?
Well it does work pretty well. Unless they add some new content to the bases that doesn't fit in here, this should cover it.
Maybe a hangar tab for your stuff in storage....
The interface in Freelancer is terrible. The interface in Privateer 2 (the kiosk part) is fairly cool.
There isn't that much wrong with VO's interface.
1. Weapon groups should be part of ship configuration instead of a separate tab, and ship configuration in general should be easier. In fact, config could be fixed by replacing the slot list box with a ship graphic. That way, the behavior of clicking an item then clicking a location then clicking Equip would make sense.
2. Buy, Sell, and Cargo should be combined into a single Trade tab. Use 3 panels: one for what the station sells, one for what is in your station hold, and one for the current transaction. Move items in and out of the transaction box until you are satisfied, then click Trade. Your ship's cargo hold is a subscreen of this one, allowing you to transfer items between your ship's hold and your station hold with fine-grained control. Have a shortcut button on the main trade screen to dump the entire contents of your ship's cargo hold into the transaction box.
3. Mission selecting, acceptance, and aborting needs streamlining. Single-clicking on a mission should display a description in a nearby box. There's no need for a Decline button (because you won't need to dismiss a separate screen), just an Accept button and an Abort button.
There isn't that much wrong with VO's interface.
1. Weapon groups should be part of ship configuration instead of a separate tab, and ship configuration in general should be easier. In fact, config could be fixed by replacing the slot list box with a ship graphic. That way, the behavior of clicking an item then clicking a location then clicking Equip would make sense.
2. Buy, Sell, and Cargo should be combined into a single Trade tab. Use 3 panels: one for what the station sells, one for what is in your station hold, and one for the current transaction. Move items in and out of the transaction box until you are satisfied, then click Trade. Your ship's cargo hold is a subscreen of this one, allowing you to transfer items between your ship's hold and your station hold with fine-grained control. Have a shortcut button on the main trade screen to dump the entire contents of your ship's cargo hold into the transaction box.
3. Mission selecting, acceptance, and aborting needs streamlining. Single-clicking on a mission should display a description in a nearby box. There's no need for a Decline button (because you won't need to dismiss a separate screen), just an Accept button and an Abort button.
Considering
1. devs are very limited on time
2. Lemmings idea would take only a few hours to implement.
3. Lemmings idea takes almost no time to design
4. Lemmings idea takes almost no new artwork
5. the user experienece would be vastly improved
6. the current user experience in the 'buy' menu is horrible
7. Lemmings idea has been suggested about 3-4 times before
8. the user interface has been planned to have been 'overhauled' for years, but will always be put on the back burner because this is the inherent fate of user interfaces in all software...
9. it would take days of work to do the other stuff people are talking about..
I agree with Lemming.
EDIT: jeez i cant type.
1. devs are very limited on time
2. Lemmings idea would take only a few hours to implement.
3. Lemmings idea takes almost no time to design
4. Lemmings idea takes almost no new artwork
5. the user experienece would be vastly improved
6. the current user experience in the 'buy' menu is horrible
7. Lemmings idea has been suggested about 3-4 times before
8. the user interface has been planned to have been 'overhauled' for years, but will always be put on the back burner because this is the inherent fate of user interfaces in all software...
9. it would take days of work to do the other stuff people are talking about..
I agree with Lemming.
EDIT: jeez i cant type.
From a pure usability standpoint, using multiple nested layers of activation tabs is -BAD BAD BAD AND HORRIBLY BAD-
There are plenty of lessons to be had from sites like "the interface hall of shame" that discusses this propagation and concepts of its exploration and interpretation.
A slided tree interface is slightly better, but overclutters, and interface design for a game that is supposed to work and scale down to 640x480 is very difficult. :-/
No, I don't have a clear solution to this, as its a hard problem, however, I can provide enough reasons to why the suggested one would make it actually worse in terms of abstractions. :-)
There are plenty of lessons to be had from sites like "the interface hall of shame" that discusses this propagation and concepts of its exploration and interpretation.
A slided tree interface is slightly better, but overclutters, and interface design for a game that is supposed to work and scale down to 640x480 is very difficult. :-/
No, I don't have a clear solution to this, as its a hard problem, however, I can provide enough reasons to why the suggested one would make it actually worse in terms of abstractions. :-)
re: the "kiosk" and "yellow-pages" ideas:
I, at least, see the current station interface as being displayed on a console somewhere off to one side of your cockpit... it's a software interface to the station's automated load/unload and modular weapons-fitting systems. All transactions happen in real-time, and the only time you actually disembark from your ship is when you log off...
I, at least, see the current station interface as being displayed on a console somewhere off to one side of your cockpit... it's a software interface to the station's automated load/unload and modular weapons-fitting systems. All transactions happen in real-time, and the only time you actually disembark from your ship is when you log off...
I share views with thurisaz.
The only real way to make the "kiosk" interface work (ie, make any sense) would be to make a second engine that allowed you to walk around in the station.
The only real way to make the "kiosk" interface work (ie, make any sense) would be to make a second engine that allowed you to walk around in the station.
Spider it doesnt have to be 'nested tabs'.
Some people have mentioned something like this, with buttons underneath the item list:
http://www.geocities.com/phnuda/vendetta/station.cargo.buy2.jpg
Some people have mentioned something like this, with buttons underneath the item list:
http://www.geocities.com/phnuda/vendetta/station.cargo.buy2.jpg
very nice, ananzi
Why is 'buy ship' ships a separate button that opens a new screen? Selling ships IS done in the sell tab, why can't ships be bought from the buy tab?
Why is there a "*buy* ship" button in the *sell* tab?
Shouldn't "nav" be moved to the tabs as well?
Can "select ship" be made part of the "cargo" tab wich should be renamed to "storage"?
Why is there a "*buy* ship" button in the *sell* tab?
Shouldn't "nav" be moved to the tabs as well?
Can "select ship" be made part of the "cargo" tab wich should be renamed to "storage"?
that is nice ananzi
good job, and this is just like my post
good job, and this is just like my post
Okay spider, why are "nested tabs" horrible if you can view the whole list with the suggested all tab?
'the noid' you have a point, but we are hoping to get just this one small thing changed.
Nested tabs are bad due to discoverability and sequentiality.
I have to dislike with your idea, ananzi, due to the fact that there is nothing but a highlight to select the state (said highlight is there when your mouse is over an item) and because there is no visual connection between the toggle and what it toggles. In fact you have a delimiter there, visualy separating the two elements.
I have to dislike with your idea, ananzi, due to the fact that there is nothing but a highlight to select the state (said highlight is there when your mouse is over an item) and because there is no visual connection between the toggle and what it toggles. In fact you have a delimiter there, visualy separating the two elements.
show me
Erm, show you what? That the interface you prototyped lacks a distinct visual connection between the controls and the settings?
Basic interface is top-down driven, meaning an item in the middle should not affect items above it, but below.
Visual indication means a button needs to be very visible in the state (Staying depressed, fex. Which is what the chat interface does)
Visual connectivity, there should be no borders between a toggle and the item it changes in the interface, and in fact they should be unioned visually.
Basic interface is top-down driven, meaning an item in the middle should not affect items above it, but below.
Visual indication means a button needs to be very visible in the state (Staying depressed, fex. Which is what the chat interface does)
Visual connectivity, there should be no borders between a toggle and the item it changes in the interface, and in fact they should be unioned visually.
simple to fix, just make the buttons that ananzi made tabs like the chat windows on the main hud. When you select weapons, that tab comes to the forground. When you select Trade Goods that one comes to the forground. Your just being difficult Spider.
No, I'm trying -not- to be difficult. If I was being difficult I'd throw you the bloody textbook on HCI and IxD, instead of explaining why I disagree with a proposal.
And no, there is no "simple" fix in this, the current station UI shows pretty well why, take fex. the various active areas and keybindings / activations.
And no, there is no "simple" fix in this, the current station UI shows pretty well why, take fex. the various active areas and keybindings / activations.
I merely ment about the buttons not working they way you would like due to your top down design comment. by making the selection window in tabs that were aligned at the bottom it would show wich buttom was depressed. Was not saying that the whole thing was easy. The who UI for the game needs a major overhaul in a bad way so your right there. Relax.