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This is a lot of verbiage, but have we all forgotten that the heavy ships have yet to be tweaked? We have only half of the information right now. Let us wait for the heavies to get tweaked, and THEN we'll see what is needed.
While you are correct FM, and the balance of the heavy ships has yet to occur, I just dont see how any changes to them will make the centurion any less broken in the context of ship-to-ship combat.
What the centurion has as good points:
-Uncatchable speed.
-Infinite Turbo
-Extreme Acceleration.
-fairly good cargo
What it's downsides are:
thin hull
limited weapons
IMO moving the cargo from the positives to the negatives, (EG give it 1-2 cargo instead of the 6-11 it has now) would balance it out.
I CAN see there being a cargo transport version of the cent with 6 or 8 cargo that has one of the following:
- a MUCH thinner hull(i'm thinking 3000 max)
- a significantly lower top speed (55/210)
or
- an energy drain of 60.
The idea is that its a fighter craft. It's NOT meant to carry cargo, especially if it cant be caught.
What the centurion has as good points:
-Uncatchable speed.
-Infinite Turbo
-Extreme Acceleration.
-fairly good cargo
What it's downsides are:
thin hull
limited weapons
IMO moving the cargo from the positives to the negatives, (EG give it 1-2 cargo instead of the 6-11 it has now) would balance it out.
I CAN see there being a cargo transport version of the cent with 6 or 8 cargo that has one of the following:
- a MUCH thinner hull(i'm thinking 3000 max)
- a significantly lower top speed (55/210)
or
- an energy drain of 60.
The idea is that its a fighter craft. It's NOT meant to carry cargo, especially if it cant be caught.
I was thinking changes to the heavies may make flying a centurion a bit more dangerous, but we'll see. I love the centurion, but I'm with you that perhaps it could carry less cargo.
(Edit: well thank god you cleared THAT up Spellcast! /rolls eyes)
(Edit: well thank god you cleared THAT up Spellcast! /rolls eyes)
"-I was thinking changes to the heavies may make flying a centurion a bit more dangerous, but we'll see-"
Flying a centurion will never be dangerous, because nothing can catch it, thats it's main advantage.
FIGHTING in a centurion, now that has the potential to become more dangerous with the tweaks to the heavies.
My main concern however is that the cent is being used as a catch/destroy ship in CtC, and then has enough cargo space to grab a large chunk of cargo and flee untouched. If it were to loose almost all of its cargo capacity, then it would make the perfect cheap space superiority fighter. it's a great little hunter/killer ship, and it suits that role perfectly without cargo.
Flying a centurion will never be dangerous, because nothing can catch it, thats it's main advantage.
FIGHTING in a centurion, now that has the potential to become more dangerous with the tweaks to the heavies.
My main concern however is that the cent is being used as a catch/destroy ship in CtC, and then has enough cargo space to grab a large chunk of cargo and flee untouched. If it were to loose almost all of its cargo capacity, then it would make the perfect cheap space superiority fighter. it's a great little hunter/killer ship, and it suits that role perfectly without cargo.
FM: In terms of the fact that the heavy ships weren't dealt with, I feel as if that only served to unbalance the game further. The light ships got faster and harder to hit while the large ships were kinda left in the dust. In hindsight, I feel like everything should have been balanced simultaneously. I mean, balance is supposed to be among ALL the ships in the game, and not just half of them.
While I'm sure that the changes to the light fighters would somehow fit in the big picure of the game, for now, I just can't see what that big picture could be.
Like Spellcast, I don't seen any balance to heavy ships that can offset all of the Centurion's advantages. As we keep saying, we feel that the Centurion's cargo space should be reduced to nearly nothing (0-2 cargo) as it's supposed to be a fast hit-and-run fighter. Not a hit-stick-around-to-grab-cargo-and-run fighter. It's an exceptional early level fighter with low combat and weapons requirements but still is quite effective in PvP combat. It should have absolutely NO worthwhile cargo capacity. That's the Wraith's job being the lowest level cargo ship.
While I'm sure that the changes to the light fighters would somehow fit in the big picure of the game, for now, I just can't see what that big picture could be.
Like Spellcast, I don't seen any balance to heavy ships that can offset all of the Centurion's advantages. As we keep saying, we feel that the Centurion's cargo space should be reduced to nearly nothing (0-2 cargo) as it's supposed to be a fast hit-and-run fighter. Not a hit-stick-around-to-grab-cargo-and-run fighter. It's an exceptional early level fighter with low combat and weapons requirements but still is quite effective in PvP combat. It should have absolutely NO worthwhile cargo capacity. That's the Wraith's job being the lowest level cargo ship.
How about this?
Cent I: 1 crate (a datapad)
Cent II: 4 crates
Cent III and up: No cargo.
Cent I: 1 crate (a datapad)
Cent II: 4 crates
Cent III and up: No cargo.
that i can live with ctishman, IF the cent 2 takes an armor hit down to about 3,000 - 4,000 to make it much less effective in a combat role. 1 good hit should crumple it like a tissue paper.
don't mean to troll on this but…
>I feel like everything should have been balanced simultaneously. I mean, balance is supposed to be among ALL the ships in the game, and not just half of them.< [CrippledPidgeon]
I've been saying this for days.
>I feel like everything should have been balanced simultaneously. I mean, balance is supposed to be among ALL the ships in the game, and not just half of them.< [CrippledPidgeon]
I've been saying this for days.
this is so funny! ur a pirate aren't u pidgeon? i love my centureon - please please please please dont change a thing! it is perfect for outrunning, but ill admit its not much use for nething else. therefore, it is balanced.
plus, pirates and malicious players cant stand them!
plus, pirates and malicious players cant stand them!
I would have no problem with a cargo drop, although I think the IBG should retain its 3 cu. However, an armor drop is unacceptable. We long-haul Centurion pilots (I've flown one since 2002, if you want to be picky) already suffer from lower armor than almost any other ship. Don't cripple us any further.
I'm going to argue against dropping the Cent's cargo capacity, on the grounds that it would make it _easier_ for Cents to grab CtC cargo and get away. If I'm also flying a Cent, I have a decent chance to catch another Cent that's carrying 8-11 units of Purified Xith. If that's dropped to 2-4, it would be that much harder. Sure, they leave some behind, but I'd rather catch them & get it all back, than have them get away with half.
johnhawl: as they say, "the squeeky wheel gets oiled."
darksmiley: I don't proclaim to be a pirate, but I do have a "Pirate For A Day" message that I wheel out whenever someone remarks that they haven't seen any pirates around.
roguelazer: Spellcast is saying that if there is a (normal) Centurion variant that is a "cargo version," that has 4 or 5 space, its armor should be reduced. Not any of the "combat" versions.
Beolach: The point is that the Centurion SHOULDN'T be able to grab all of the CtC cargo. Sure, maybe just one or two pieces each, but it can't SINGLE HANDEDLY chase the transport, kill the transport, and then retrieve ALL of the cargo. There would either need to be a change of ship and tactics, or more ideally, a need for a second (or more) player to support and to grab it all. This encourages tactics and teamwork.
darksmiley: I don't proclaim to be a pirate, but I do have a "Pirate For A Day" message that I wheel out whenever someone remarks that they haven't seen any pirates around.
roguelazer: Spellcast is saying that if there is a (normal) Centurion variant that is a "cargo version," that has 4 or 5 space, its armor should be reduced. Not any of the "combat" versions.
Beolach: The point is that the Centurion SHOULDN'T be able to grab all of the CtC cargo. Sure, maybe just one or two pieces each, but it can't SINGLE HANDEDLY chase the transport, kill the transport, and then retrieve ALL of the cargo. There would either need to be a change of ship and tactics, or more ideally, a need for a second (or more) player to support and to grab it all. This encourages tactics and teamwork.
there's two ways to solve a number of problems with 1 stone.
1. change the amount of cu the xithercite ore takes. i'd say 3cu per unit. also further increase the mass, 1000kg per unit.
2. alter the cargo on the entire centurion line. being:
1. cent mk1: 2cu
2. cent mk2: 8cu (the rune has 8, so why not)
3. cent mk3: 4cu
with this setup the classic 'Hit and Infiniboost Away For Your Life while Laughing Back At The Non Infiniboost Craft Behind You' would not be so easy anymore. with added mass, and upped cu on the xitercite ore; this would also catch the rants about the valkyire rune (has infiniboost) which will be coming soon once the centurion is balenced.
i would like to also stress are you guys crazy for giving the vulturious a 90 turbo drain? lol. for that amount of insaine drain i should be able to hit my topspeed in 2 seconds :P i think i am the only one in the entire game who still flys it with a serious intent, and not a 5minute thing.
1. change the amount of cu the xithercite ore takes. i'd say 3cu per unit. also further increase the mass, 1000kg per unit.
2. alter the cargo on the entire centurion line. being:
1. cent mk1: 2cu
2. cent mk2: 8cu (the rune has 8, so why not)
3. cent mk3: 4cu
with this setup the classic 'Hit and Infiniboost Away For Your Life while Laughing Back At The Non Infiniboost Craft Behind You' would not be so easy anymore. with added mass, and upped cu on the xitercite ore; this would also catch the rants about the valkyire rune (has infiniboost) which will be coming soon once the centurion is balenced.
i would like to also stress are you guys crazy for giving the vulturious a 90 turbo drain? lol. for that amount of insaine drain i should be able to hit my topspeed in 2 seconds :P i think i am the only one in the entire game who still flys it with a serious intent, and not a 5minute thing.
Ok sputnik, but lets flip your cargo values upside down, and tweak just a hair.
Cent 1: 4cu -it has lower top speed, so is more difficult to flee in
Cent 2: 7cu -the rune valk should be a little better than a mere cent.
cent 3: 2cu -the fastest infiniboost ship is the one I would want to have the least cargo.
and i'll add
IBG Cent: 4cu -this thing has a turbo drain doesn't it?
Orion Cent: 1cu MAX (i'd prefer none) that ship just rocks.
Cent 1: 4cu -it has lower top speed, so is more difficult to flee in
Cent 2: 7cu -the rune valk should be a little better than a mere cent.
cent 3: 2cu -the fastest infiniboost ship is the one I would want to have the least cargo.
and i'll add
IBG Cent: 4cu -this thing has a turbo drain doesn't it?
Orion Cent: 1cu MAX (i'd prefer none) that ship just rocks.
> Beolach: The point is that the Centurion SHOULDN'T be able to
> grab all of the CtC cargo. Sure, maybe just one or two pieces
> each, but it can't SINGLE HANDEDLY chase the transport, kill the
> transport, and then retrieve ALL of the cargo. There would either
> need to be a change of ship and tactics, or more ideally, a need
> for a second (or more) player to support and to grab it all. This
> encourages tactics and teamwork.
This is already the case, for the larger convoys during peak & towards the end of the round. 8 or 11 cargo really isn't all that much, and while it's difficult, I stand by what I said, a Cent carrying 8 or 11 Pure Xith is catchable. If it was only 1 or 2, it wouldn't be.
> grab all of the CtC cargo. Sure, maybe just one or two pieces
> each, but it can't SINGLE HANDEDLY chase the transport, kill the
> transport, and then retrieve ALL of the cargo. There would either
> need to be a change of ship and tactics, or more ideally, a need
> for a second (or more) player to support and to grab it all. This
> encourages tactics and teamwork.
This is already the case, for the larger convoys during peak & towards the end of the round. 8 or 11 cargo really isn't all that much, and while it's difficult, I stand by what I said, a Cent carrying 8 or 11 Pure Xith is catchable. If it was only 1 or 2, it wouldn't be.
yea, but you're not counting all the transports at the beginning of the week. Those are easily carryable by a centurion.
Yes, but my main point is that they're catchable, especially the 11. And for those that do get away, 8 or 11 really isn't all that much.
So: Beginning of the week, they can grab it all. Say the defenders give chase, and manage to regain 50%. At the end of the week, they can only grab about half or less, and the defenders can still catch them 50% of the time.
On the other hand, if it was on 4cu's or less, I think they could pretty consistently get away with the 4 units throughout the week.
So: Beginning of the week, they can grab it all. Say the defenders give chase, and manage to regain 50%. At the end of the week, they can only grab about half or less, and the defenders can still catch them 50% of the time.
On the other hand, if it was on 4cu's or less, I think they could pretty consistently get away with the 4 units throughout the week.