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AD4389
The Serco begin a large-scale incursion into Itani territory. During combat, Itani pilots hear the Serco screaming epithets and demanding vengeance for various atrocities, unusually emotional battlefield behavior for the Serco. A number of long battles follow, many times during which the Itani are hard pressed to push back the invasion, despite the use of the Goliath Cannon.
So, while I dearly want to see the Goliath Cannon in action against Serco cap ships, I don't think they should make short work of the Serco cap ships anymore, definitely taking more than just a few minutes. I'd love to see the *SMV Nemesis take part in the occasional BP mission.
AD4389
The Serco begin a large-scale incursion into Itani territory. During combat, Itani pilots hear the Serco screaming epithets and demanding vengeance for various atrocities, unusually emotional battlefield behavior for the Serco. A number of long battles follow, many times during which the Itani are hard pressed to push back the invasion, despite the use of the Goliath Cannon.
So, while I dearly want to see the Goliath Cannon in action against Serco cap ships, I don't think they should make short work of the Serco cap ships anymore, definitely taking more than just a few minutes. I'd love to see the *SMV Nemesis take part in the occasional BP mission.
So, I heard today from my friend about someone with 10/10/10/2/0, and asked how to get a fast charge battery. Thank you Border Patrol (sarcasm).
People are getting to Combat 9 within 1 day because of this mission. It's not even hard to do. I remember the race after release to be the first to get SCP, IDF, or Maud. Gives you something to be proud about, having done that botting on your own. And the trading. It was something to be excited about knowing good trade routes and making mulah no one else could ever. BP gives almost as much money as a good trade. And good trades die when you sell.
And how fair is it that we level so much so easily now, that when the mission is finally balanced, when new players will once again slowly level like we have before? Even right now, people enjoy missions that could give +400 standing, when every mission soon after release gave +6 each.
And what about people like me, who strive for high standing everywhere. We might as well all quit if such a huge advantage is given like this. I'd really almost accept (*gulps*) reset if this is just going to be shoved under the rug. So some people just get stuff, for free, for no good reason. Might as well give everyone a cap ship and say its for fun.
People are getting to Combat 9 within 1 day because of this mission. It's not even hard to do. I remember the race after release to be the first to get SCP, IDF, or Maud. Gives you something to be proud about, having done that botting on your own. And the trading. It was something to be excited about knowing good trade routes and making mulah no one else could ever. BP gives almost as much money as a good trade. And good trades die when you sell.
And how fair is it that we level so much so easily now, that when the mission is finally balanced, when new players will once again slowly level like we have before? Even right now, people enjoy missions that could give +400 standing, when every mission soon after release gave +6 each.
And what about people like me, who strive for high standing everywhere. We might as well all quit if such a huge advantage is given like this. I'd really almost accept (*gulps*) reset if this is just going to be shoved under the rug. So some people just get stuff, for free, for no good reason. Might as well give everyone a cap ship and say its for fun.
That was most likely me. I got close to those levels after two days of doing nothing but bp missions, I had to work realy hard to earn my kills, so please no dissmissing the work of others untill you know for a fact how they did it. I DO EARNESTLY SUGGEST that the money made in groups gets turned down.... not that i'm complaining about having 8.5 million credits... :P
suggested changes to border patrol:
make bots leave to keep numbers balanced
If there are 3 itani and 2 serco, there should only be one serco bot. if another serco joins. that bot should LEAVE.
cut the cash reward in half, at least.
make the XP reward based not only on how many you kill, but what you kill as well?
PK's could be valued at say +225xp each (thats 25 less than kills are set at now btw)
Bots could only be worth say... 75Xp each
Require everyone in the group to at least damage an opponent in order to get XP. this prevents leeching.
CHANGE DENEB TO A GRAY SYSTEM. make the 2 stations in the center neutral, the station at the WH to Eo remains itani, and re-add the station at the Giera WH but give it to Serco. None of the stations in deneb should sell any trade goods, they are 100% military, all weapons/batteries/etc are at least five times as expensive.
the two neutral stations have no NFZ, no reputation limit, and no station gaurds.(we can fight around them that way)
bring back the black market and center it in those stations, all ships/weapons are availible there, at 25 times the regular cost. (these people are money grubbing opportunists)
then when the devs want capturable stations, those two can be used as a test bed.
make bots leave to keep numbers balanced
If there are 3 itani and 2 serco, there should only be one serco bot. if another serco joins. that bot should LEAVE.
cut the cash reward in half, at least.
make the XP reward based not only on how many you kill, but what you kill as well?
PK's could be valued at say +225xp each (thats 25 less than kills are set at now btw)
Bots could only be worth say... 75Xp each
Require everyone in the group to at least damage an opponent in order to get XP. this prevents leeching.
CHANGE DENEB TO A GRAY SYSTEM. make the 2 stations in the center neutral, the station at the WH to Eo remains itani, and re-add the station at the Giera WH but give it to Serco. None of the stations in deneb should sell any trade goods, they are 100% military, all weapons/batteries/etc are at least five times as expensive.
the two neutral stations have no NFZ, no reputation limit, and no station gaurds.(we can fight around them that way)
bring back the black market and center it in those stations, all ships/weapons are availible there, at 25 times the regular cost. (these people are money grubbing opportunists)
then when the devs want capturable stations, those two can be used as a test bed.
I always like Spellcast's ideas.
[APPROVED]
[APPROVED]
me too.
I especially like the distinction between bots and live opponents. We know that HI is better than AI in many cases.
I especially like the distinction between bots and live opponents. We know that HI is better than AI in many cases.
i too approve Spellcast's idea
I think that several BP sectors would make this more enjoyable for newbs, as opposed to sitting around while the group raises their levels. If there were a "beginners patrol," or a "scout patrol" thing as opposed to "go own some serco" as well as the "go own some serco" mission, then lower level players could also participate in the border patrol.
No, I'm not looking for a way to raise levels quickly. I just think that it's no fun for newbs when they get owned repeatedly.
No, I'm not looking for a way to raise levels quickly. I just think that it's no fun for newbs when they get owned repeatedly.
Spellcast's XP changes I'd be fine with, but Deneb is not a grey system, it's Itani. The backstory is very clear on that, Geira Rutilus & Betheshee used to be Itani systems, but the Serco pushed the border back to Deneb, and I quote:
The Itani never reclaimed the two lost systems, which were eventually colonized and fortified by the Serco. These borders remain to this day.
Making Deneb grey would really not sit well with the backstory. Deneb is the hard-held Itani border system, the location of the Itani Goliath Cannon.
My word people, it's not like one jump & a WH is all that far.
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I do like Spellcast's suggestion to decrease the XP reward a bit, and differ between bot kills and player kills. It could also work like that w/ a progressive reward system, similar to the Beginner combat mission. At least one member of the group would need to stay alive throughout the each round of the mission for the rewards to increase, and they start out a bit lower, say 150 per player kill & 50 per bot kill, and for each round of the mission that at least one group member survives through (a round being 3 kills per group member), the XP reward would increase by 50 XP per player kill & 10 XP per bot kill, to a maximum of 300 XP per player kill & 100 XP per bot kill.
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The Itani never reclaimed the two lost systems, which were eventually colonized and fortified by the Serco. These borders remain to this day.
Making Deneb grey would really not sit well with the backstory. Deneb is the hard-held Itani border system, the location of the Itani Goliath Cannon.
My word people, it's not like one jump & a WH is all that far.
[edit]
I do like Spellcast's suggestion to decrease the XP reward a bit, and differ between bot kills and player kills. It could also work like that w/ a progressive reward system, similar to the Beginner combat mission. At least one member of the group would need to stay alive throughout the each round of the mission for the rewards to increase, and they start out a bit lower, say 150 per player kill & 50 per bot kill, and for each round of the mission that at least one group member survives through (a round being 3 kills per group member), the XP reward would increase by 50 XP per player kill & 10 XP per bot kill, to a maximum of 300 XP per player kill & 100 XP per bot kill.
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I'm looking at it as a testbed for the capturable stations, and a place to allow us to fight around stations, and to make the BP more interesting.
If deneb is grey, then the BP can be randomized to any sector in the system, AND any kills inside the system could count.
The backstory was written long before the realities of the game, and while deneb is the border in the backstory, there is no reason that it cant be a contested system.
The amount of time it takes to get to an area of combat is a large factor in balance.
If deneb is grey, then the BP can be randomized to any sector in the system, AND any kills inside the system could count.
The backstory was written long before the realities of the game, and while deneb is the border in the backstory, there is no reason that it cant be a contested system.
The amount of time it takes to get to an area of combat is a large factor in balance.
Once the stations are capturable, that's a different story, as Serco would only gain them after they captured them. The backstory clearly states that as of the current day when it was written, Deneb is an Itani system, and I really don't see how you can justify turning it neutral without having the Serco playerbase earn it, once the stations are capturable.
Even w/out Deneb being grey, the only reasons for BP not be randomized to any sector would also apply if Deneb was grey (the Hive bots interfering w/ the mission). That's something that I'd actually like to see (well, better than randomized would be if the BP sectors moved closer/further from the Deneb->Geira Rutilus WH, depending on who was winning).
As I see it, the backstory is the most fundamental reality of the game. The only justification I can see for breaking with the backstory is if the devs haven't gotten around to it yet (as with the Goliath Cannon not existing yet).
Yes, the (slightly) longer distance to the BP sectors does give the Itani a (slight) advantage, but it's an Itani system, why would the give up their home advantage in one of their systems?
What I would like to see, is an "Order of Akan" BP mission, that invades Serco space. Then the Serco would have the home advantage, and we keep true to the backstory.
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One of my more personal reasons for not wanting Deneb made grey, is that it would take away my reason for doing the BP mission. Most of you know that Beolach is not of the Akanese persuasion. In CtC I only defend Itani convoys, I never attack Serco convoys. I also never hung out in Sedina B-8. The BP mission is something that I've wanted for a long, long time, as it gives me a roleplaying purpose for combat - I am defending my home nation. If Deneb were a grey system (not part of the Itani nation), then I have no reason to defend it, and there goes my reason for doing the BP mission.
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Even w/out Deneb being grey, the only reasons for BP not be randomized to any sector would also apply if Deneb was grey (the Hive bots interfering w/ the mission). That's something that I'd actually like to see (well, better than randomized would be if the BP sectors moved closer/further from the Deneb->Geira Rutilus WH, depending on who was winning).
As I see it, the backstory is the most fundamental reality of the game. The only justification I can see for breaking with the backstory is if the devs haven't gotten around to it yet (as with the Goliath Cannon not existing yet).
Yes, the (slightly) longer distance to the BP sectors does give the Itani a (slight) advantage, but it's an Itani system, why would the give up their home advantage in one of their systems?
What I would like to see, is an "Order of Akan" BP mission, that invades Serco space. Then the Serco would have the home advantage, and we keep true to the backstory.
[edit]
One of my more personal reasons for not wanting Deneb made grey, is that it would take away my reason for doing the BP mission. Most of you know that Beolach is not of the Akanese persuasion. In CtC I only defend Itani convoys, I never attack Serco convoys. I also never hung out in Sedina B-8. The BP mission is something that I've wanted for a long, long time, as it gives me a roleplaying purpose for combat - I am defending my home nation. If Deneb were a grey system (not part of the Itani nation), then I have no reason to defend it, and there goes my reason for doing the BP mission.
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I think the backstory can and should be updated to reflect events in-game. It shouldn't be sacrosanct. If manipulating the backstory in order to make the game more playable can be done, it should be done.
The Serco can use their brand-new capship to establish a presence in Deneb space, then the BP missions have a reason for existing in the same system. Would be neat. No station would be required in Deneb - just the SMV Nemesis at the Geira WH. Serco could dock there to repair, PLUS then the itani would have a goal of destroying the Nemesis to make the Serco's incursion into their space a little harder.
Of course, we could flip this and have the Itani take back Geira. That might be MORE interesting. Hehe.
The Serco can use their brand-new capship to establish a presence in Deneb space, then the BP missions have a reason for existing in the same system. Would be neat. No station would be required in Deneb - just the SMV Nemesis at the Geira WH. Serco could dock there to repair, PLUS then the itani would have a goal of destroying the Nemesis to make the Serco's incursion into their space a little harder.
Of course, we could flip this and have the Itani take back Geira. That might be MORE interesting. Hehe.
Current in-game events take place after the backstory. I have no problem with things changing - once we get capturable stations, the Serco are welcome to try to capture the Deneb stations, turning Deneb grey or red. But that's once the game mechanics support capturable stations, and I & the other Itani are not going to let it be easy. It's something else entirely to just make Deneb grey spontaneously.
OH NOES! what happens when all the itani decide to take a vaction and the serco easly capture and fortify Deneb? There needs to be a balace here
Forgive me if it was already mentioned. But how about start counting the completed BP mission on the stats where it says: Group missions completed? Or is that not possible since 1 person can accept the mission?
We could make it like CtC, counting the missions compleated to see who gets the station out of the WH, that would motivate people.
I'll go ahead and show you how badly BP beats botting.
Currently, it's +250/250/250 per kill, given at the end of mission.
Lets take a look at ADV combat. At the beginning, it's a bonus per 4 bots.
Tycorp: 350 per 4 = 87.5 per. Prosus: 500 per 4 = 125
BP is twice more than what you can get killing prosus, at combat 4. At higher levels, it's per 8 kills.
Tycorp: 350 per 8 = 43.75 per Prosus: 500 per 8 = 62.5
Great, it's 4x faster than botting, plus, having the bonus raise with more players, and given to all members of a group.
But what's that you say? You get +lw and +hw while killing the bots? Lets sum the xp gain in total for bonus per 8.
Tycorp: 8*350 + 3*350 = 3850 Prosus: 8*500 + 3*500 = 5500
Now in BP, for killing 8 targets: 8*3*250 = 6000
Doesn't that seem reasonable? Only if lw and hw were as highly valued as combat, which it isn't. Prosus would have given only 500 combat, while BP would give 2000.
I don't know about you guys, but I tire quickly from games which give you everything quickly. Even though it is highly skill based, I'd bet people wouldn't have played for months being hooked on trying to work toward that SCP or IDF Valk. It should be harder to get levels and things, but it should be more fun to work towards it.
Currently, it's +250/250/250 per kill, given at the end of mission.
Lets take a look at ADV combat. At the beginning, it's a bonus per 4 bots.
Tycorp: 350 per 4 = 87.5 per. Prosus: 500 per 4 = 125
BP is twice more than what you can get killing prosus, at combat 4. At higher levels, it's per 8 kills.
Tycorp: 350 per 8 = 43.75 per Prosus: 500 per 8 = 62.5
Great, it's 4x faster than botting, plus, having the bonus raise with more players, and given to all members of a group.
But what's that you say? You get +lw and +hw while killing the bots? Lets sum the xp gain in total for bonus per 8.
Tycorp: 8*350 + 3*350 = 3850 Prosus: 8*500 + 3*500 = 5500
Now in BP, for killing 8 targets: 8*3*250 = 6000
Doesn't that seem reasonable? Only if lw and hw were as highly valued as combat, which it isn't. Prosus would have given only 500 combat, while BP would give 2000.
I don't know about you guys, but I tire quickly from games which give you everything quickly. Even though it is highly skill based, I'd bet people wouldn't have played for months being hooked on trying to work toward that SCP or IDF Valk. It should be harder to get levels and things, but it should be more fun to work towards it.
"The Itani never reclaimed the two lost systems, which were eventually colonized and fortified by the Serco. These borders remain to this day."
.... until one day, the itani pushed the serco back one system, making deneb no longer desputed, but simple moving the despute one system over...
Itani Chant: Return our territory!
Serco Chant: Get out of our territory, and stay out!
(and so the saga cont...)
.... until one day, the itani pushed the serco back one system, making deneb no longer desputed, but simple moving the despute one system over...
Itani Chant: Return our territory!
Serco Chant: Get out of our territory, and stay out!
(and so the saga cont...)
I'd be up to Making Geira a gray sector, but I would like it to have NO STATIONS. Running is a very big problem in BP, which is really annonying and takes the fun out of BP. Making you jump and go through a wormhole and back again would make running for the Itani much more inefficient. Also, any way to bring incentive for not running, or give credit for near-death runners, would be very helpful.
By the way, do you need to have admire standing to take the BP? I am UIT.
By the way, do you need to have admire standing to take the BP? I am UIT.
I just tried the BP mission and I gotta agree with Fnugget.
To put it in simple terms, we were in a group of about 8 (and 1 was sitting in a station afk the whole time) killing only bots, bots that were about the difficulty of a prosus assault, and we were getting 6k/6k/6k experience every 10-15 minutes.
Devs, something needs to be done about this.
The rewards seem about right if only PKs counted. As it is, even when other players were in the sector it was so much easier to just go after the bots.
I would recommend taking the bots out of the border patrol mission, and making it pure PvP. Bots can never match up to the difficulty of a human pilot, and its human nature to take the path of least resistance.
The rewards are good enough, and once we have more players, more people will be flying the border patrol mission.
About the running problem, why not abort the mission and give a bonus to all enemy groups on the border patrol mission if the entire group leaves the sector at the same time? The bonus would be proportional to the number of players in the group.
This way there would be a reward for simply driving all enemy forces out of the sector, "clearing" it so to speak, and there would be a penalty (losing progress on the bp mission) if everyone chickened out and ran at the same time (or died all at once).
To put it in simple terms, we were in a group of about 8 (and 1 was sitting in a station afk the whole time) killing only bots, bots that were about the difficulty of a prosus assault, and we were getting 6k/6k/6k experience every 10-15 minutes.
Devs, something needs to be done about this.
The rewards seem about right if only PKs counted. As it is, even when other players were in the sector it was so much easier to just go after the bots.
I would recommend taking the bots out of the border patrol mission, and making it pure PvP. Bots can never match up to the difficulty of a human pilot, and its human nature to take the path of least resistance.
The rewards are good enough, and once we have more players, more people will be flying the border patrol mission.
About the running problem, why not abort the mission and give a bonus to all enemy groups on the border patrol mission if the entire group leaves the sector at the same time? The bonus would be proportional to the number of players in the group.
This way there would be a reward for simply driving all enemy forces out of the sector, "clearing" it so to speak, and there would be a penalty (losing progress on the bp mission) if everyone chickened out and ran at the same time (or died all at once).