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he has a point though... without the agt the prom is a not so ubership anymore. Since it is exactly the combo agt + flares that is the killer.
Replace the guns with my favorite, namely dualgauss and jack and lets just say that the prom ain't that iber anymore. But it is still good.
Still this just states that most large port weapons are severely under par compared with the AGT.
Replace the guns with my favorite, namely dualgauss and jack and lets just say that the prom ain't that iber anymore. But it is still good.
Still this just states that most large port weapons are severely under par compared with the AGT.
Yes, take flares and agt off a prom and it becomes less uber, but who purposely takes a combo that makes their ship more vulnerable other than people who are just flat out bored with getting easy kills?
And Yes, flares and agt are only good at short range. But against a good prom pilot, someone who knows how to use it, you can only hit a prom at short range. In the words of Shape: "If you're getting hit (in a prom) with n3 blasts from outside 150m, you're doing something wrong."
And I still have to vehemently disagree (as I think everyone else does) with changing the Prom's drain to 55 and increasing the valk's drain to 60. The Valk is supposed to be faster than the prom. Making it so that the prom's drain is actually less than a valk's makes no sense whatsoever. I fear we are falling back into the previous thread where everyone disagreed with Ayn the first time.
And Yes, flares and agt are only good at short range. But against a good prom pilot, someone who knows how to use it, you can only hit a prom at short range. In the words of Shape: "If you're getting hit (in a prom) with n3 blasts from outside 150m, you're doing something wrong."
And I still have to vehemently disagree (as I think everyone else does) with changing the Prom's drain to 55 and increasing the valk's drain to 60. The Valk is supposed to be faster than the prom. Making it so that the prom's drain is actually less than a valk's makes no sense whatsoever. I fear we are falling back into the previous thread where everyone disagreed with Ayn the first time.
Frankly, I don't think even Ayn knows which side he's on. He keeps changing his story.
BTW, did anyone even see this?
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11942?page=3#144832
BTW, did anyone even see this?
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11942?page=3#144832
Hehe. Yup!
people that are tired of people complaining about a ship being unbalanced. While only 1 combo of weapons makes the ship so strong.
And no, I was not in favor of decreasing the drain of the prom and hightening the drain of the valk...
Although 60 doesn't mean not being the fastest but having a shorter endurance but retaining its higher topgear. While a prom has a lower topspeed but the ability to keep going for a longer time. Still it would bias the game to much in favor of the sercos warship and probably hinder diversity. Anyway just stating this to indicate that for every point of view there is some kind of possible funded reason. But maybe somebody should indicate to nya that the SCP has a hightened energysdrain because of a higher topspeed in comparison with the other proms which is defacto reason enough for the heightened energydrain.
And no, I was not in favor of decreasing the drain of the prom and hightening the drain of the valk...
Although 60 doesn't mean not being the fastest but having a shorter endurance but retaining its higher topgear. While a prom has a lower topspeed but the ability to keep going for a longer time. Still it would bias the game to much in favor of the sercos warship and probably hinder diversity. Anyway just stating this to indicate that for every point of view there is some kind of possible funded reason. But maybe somebody should indicate to nya that the SCP has a hightened energysdrain because of a higher topspeed in comparison with the other proms which is defacto reason enough for the heightened energydrain.
nerf PROM wont help you
but it will just make more unbalance
Yes, that's right. It sure is a waste of time to talk to trolls. Oh well.
[OT]
Quote from Nya:
>>you keep locating the wrong problem!<<
Darn right. The real problem is a much more sidious and closed-minded one. I'll give you a wee hint. It's name contains one vowel, two consonants, and two numerical digits.
(Ten bucks says he doesn't even notice this)
[/OT]
Proms aren't too hard to escape from if you flat-out run, but if you want to make a fighting retreat, it is a little difficult. Lowering the speed a little bit wouldn't unbalance things too much, and would indeed put the Prom a bit deeper into its intended niche as a sector-control vessel, rather than a heavy fighter.
Quote from Nya:
>>you keep locating the wrong problem!<<
Darn right. The real problem is a much more sidious and closed-minded one. I'll give you a wee hint. It's name contains one vowel, two consonants, and two numerical digits.
(Ten bucks says he doesn't even notice this)
[/OT]
Proms aren't too hard to escape from if you flat-out run, but if you want to make a fighting retreat, it is a little difficult. Lowering the speed a little bit wouldn't unbalance things too much, and would indeed put the Prom a bit deeper into its intended niche as a sector-control vessel, rather than a heavy fighter.
eventually running will be a loss from a tactical point of view, I'm fairly certain the devs will make missions that reward control, not just the random hit-run-repeat we see today. for those things, the SCP will be *very* good.
and anyone who thinks the SCP is useless with anything but flares + AGT, fly against a dual neut + jack SCP flown by someone who flies like Shape. they hurt. badly. thing is, you have to fly purely on strafe, nothing else. do that, and the SCP becomes a very painful opponent.
and anyone who thinks the SCP is useless with anything but flares + AGT, fly against a dual neut + jack SCP flown by someone who flies like Shape. they hurt. badly. thing is, you have to fly purely on strafe, nothing else. do that, and the SCP becomes a very painful opponent.
hey, if we're gonna nerf the prom for being effective, can we nerf the valk and maud while we're at it? I mean, if you think proms are too good at running away, then the valks DEFINATELY need to be nerfed. And if the proms are too maneuverable, then the Mauds need to be nerfed too - no tri-flare ship should be able to move like that.
Proms are not uber powerful. They just require more than brute strength to kill. They're also the Serco's elite ship, and like the 'tani's valk, they SHOULD be a powerful force.
I even stopped using proms because they were too inefective against light ships or in many-on-one engagements.
Proms are not uber powerful. They just require more than brute strength to kill. They're also the Serco's elite ship, and like the 'tani's valk, they SHOULD be a powerful force.
I even stopped using proms because they were too inefective against light ships or in many-on-one engagements.
terjekv, I never stated useless... I stated non uber. Pointing that nerfing a ship because of a weaponcombo is not the way to go. Just as a dualflare valk with 1 tach is in most cases a more uber combo then a tri tach combo. And if you weren't really pointing towards me then i retract this post :D. (ps: late post due to not being on th i-net for 4 days :D)
Rene, you know I rarely point at you. :-p
anyway, most ships have a counter. as does the SCP. the easy one is not to fight it, since SCPs rely on the fight coming (and staying) with them. with Valks, it's a bit harder, you can't easily get away, so you'll have to fight it out, but the Valks are potatos, they're easy to hit. for some reason, I always found the Valks easier to hit than SCPs. Valk jocks have a tendancy to come up close and try to get personal, which gives you some freedom to actually hit them, SCPs have this nagging tendancy of asking you nicely to come into AGT + flare range, turning the fight into a game of distance control and very careful prodding.
anyway, most ships have a counter. as does the SCP. the easy one is not to fight it, since SCPs rely on the fight coming (and staying) with them. with Valks, it's a bit harder, you can't easily get away, so you'll have to fight it out, but the Valks are potatos, they're easy to hit. for some reason, I always found the Valks easier to hit than SCPs. Valk jocks have a tendancy to come up close and try to get personal, which gives you some freedom to actually hit them, SCPs have this nagging tendancy of asking you nicely to come into AGT + flare range, turning the fight into a game of distance control and very careful prodding.
Thought I'd poke this back up. I hate Proms -.-
Prom does not need to be NERFED it needs to be slightly adjusted, either in terms of thrust or mass or both. Spellcast had some very good balance suggestions a while back that I fear went unnoticed by many.
Edit: I've been unable to find Spell's balance thread. Spell, if you're out there somewhere and could repost some of your prom suggestions it may help this thread along. I believe they were very well informed and it helps that it's not another Itani calling for prom adjustments.
Edit: I've been unable to find Spell's balance thread. Spell, if you're out there somewhere and could repost some of your prom suggestions it may help this thread along. I believe they were very well informed and it helps that it's not another Itani calling for prom adjustments.
LOL, Monk. You shouldn't try to knife-fight with quadflare hornet.
Speaking of which, If there's a ship in this game that needs an up-tweak, it's the Hornet. With a better spintorque, it would easily compete the the other faction ships. As it is, it sucks like an 11000 Kg vacuum-cleaner. The Orion CG, the "good" one, handles little better than a loaded Moth. Crank the spintorque up to 12 or 13.
Speaking of which, If there's a ship in this game that needs an up-tweak, it's the Hornet. With a better spintorque, it would easily compete the the other faction ships. As it is, it sucks like an 11000 Kg vacuum-cleaner. The Orion CG, the "good" one, handles little better than a loaded Moth. Crank the spintorque up to 12 or 13.
Problem is, with better spintorque the Hornet would become too good, and considering it is a heavy fighter, it would take the role the Prometheus is intended for. Then again, it wouldn't be that bad to have a reliable heavy fighter that's not nation-specific...
Hornets are medium fighters, not heavy. Ragnaroks are heavy, and are plenty reliable (and not nation-specific). I'd say the Hornets could use a small improvement, but they're not too bad right now, and IMO the Marauders are more deserving & in need of getting some improvements.
Maybe give the UiT a variant of the Hornet? Then the Serco could have a Rag, and the Itani could have an Atlas? (Look at the Atlas it just screems Itani, maybe make it a little better then the TPG ATX with a little less cargo space for use in CTC)
Hmmm... I think It's time to repeat what I've been saying throughout this thread...
BUFF THE MAUD.
BUFF THE MAUD.
heh which one ghost. :)
lets seeeeeeee..
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10940 and http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10941#127799 are what i would ideally like to see, but they hardly qualify as balance tweaks.. :) lets see what else I have...
hmm, its not really on topic but heres a post about reputation and faction.... and NFZ.. and a lot of stuff..
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10089
In general however I think that a small reduction in the ability of the prom to turn on a dime coupled with a significant INCREASE in the mass of the GATLING TURRET would be a good short term solution.
If it cant spin on a dime to lob flares out at you the GT isnt as big of an issue either. and increasing the mass of the GT (double it) would also help reduce that combo.
lets seeeeeeee..
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10940 and http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10941#127799 are what i would ideally like to see, but they hardly qualify as balance tweaks.. :) lets see what else I have...
hmm, its not really on topic but heres a post about reputation and faction.... and NFZ.. and a lot of stuff..
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10089
In general however I think that a small reduction in the ability of the prom to turn on a dime coupled with a significant INCREASE in the mass of the GATLING TURRET would be a good short term solution.
If it cant spin on a dime to lob flares out at you the GT isnt as big of an issue either. and increasing the mass of the GT (double it) would also help reduce that combo.