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The return of the ever growing toys thread.

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May 19, 2003 Celebrim link
Per request, I'm making the old 'toys' thread active again. Look in the archives for the original discussion.

The idea here is that all ships would have a small number of equipment slots - perhaps 3 on a Centurian or light fighter and as many as 5 on a Ragnarok or other heavy fighter. Most of the below gizmos would either fill an equipment slot or reduce available cargo space. Some are weapons, some aren't weapons but fill a weapon slot, and in the case of armor it fills either its own unique armor slot or a weapon slot.

Here is my list to Santa:

1) Thrust Booster: Increase maximum cruising speed by 10%
2) Turbo Charger: Increase maximum turbo speed by 10%
3) Improved Radar: Double radar range.
4) Advanced Radar: 10x radar range.
5) Long range radio: Double radio range (for when ships radios have limited range in sectors).
6) Extra long range radio: x5 radio range (for when ships radios have limited range in sectors).
7) Radio Jamming Device: Reduce radio range on enemy radios in range.
8) Hardened radio: Resists radio jamming.
9) Radar Jamming Device: Enemy radars within 500m fail to show any targets other than the jamming ship (protects allies, but not self).
10) Stealth Suite: Enemy radar range is halved with respect to you (protects you, but not allies) provided your radar is in passive mode and you are not using ECM, ECCM, or other signal emitting devices.
11) Advanced Stealth Suite: As above but enemy radar range is quartered with respect to you.
12) Fuel Efficient Engine: Using a jump gate takes only 2/3's as much fuel (energy if fuel is not implemented?).

Idea #13 has been superceded by changes in gameplay.

14) Sniper HUD: Targets in your cross hairs that you have targeted are magnified as per the 'i' command.
15) Fire Control Relay: All allies in range can use your radar as if it were there own (for when solid objects block radar).
16) Cloaking Device: Allows you to use turbo energy to turn invisible on screen and to radar (you can still be hit by a lucky shot), but you are not allowed to fire or use turbo while cloaked. Cannot recloak for 3 seconds after decloaking.
17) Scanner: Allows you to view a target’s weapons, cargo, and damage. Also useful for determining the ore content of asteroids.
18) Long range scanner: triple normal scanner range.
19) Advanced scanner: x10 normal scanner range.
20) Smuggler's suite: Hides cargo/weapons from scanning, and gives a false reading to scanners.
21) Laboratory: Reduces cargo space, but characters with this gizmo in ship perform research missions at a faster rate.
22) Refinery: Reduces cargo space, but turns ore widgets with more valuable refined ore widgets.
23) Automated Factory: Reduces cargo space, but replaces refined ore widgets with more valuable manufactured widgets or gizmos provided you have enough skill points.
24) Advanced Factory: Reduces cargo space, but makes advanced widgets or gizmos provided you have enough skill points and refined ore widgets.
25) Nanotech Manufacturing Complex: As advanced factory, but doesn't reduce cargo as much.
26) Shield Generator: Player can exchange energy for armor (armor reduces the damage from each hit). The larger the ship, the better the exchange rate. One per ship only.
27) Heavy Shield Generator: As above but better.
28) Advanced Shield Generator: As above but better.
29) Armor Plating: Replaces a weapon in exchange for armor.

For a detailed discussion of armor see my armor thread.

32) Early warning system. Gives warning message whenever someone targets/scans you. (Actually, I'd like to see this as a standard feature).
33) Scout Drone Launcher: Fires an high velocity expendable missile which extends radar range in the direction it is traveling.
34) Mining Drone Launcher: Fires an expensive reusable homing missile at asteroids or clouds which then collects and returns ore widgets to your ship.
35) Advanced Computer: Perform research missions faster, boosts efficiency of scanners and radio scanners, also stores more blueprint widgets. (Might be available in several grades).
36) Passenger Cabins: Reduces cargo space, but gives you access to more profitable passenger missions.
37) Luxury Passenger Cabins: As above, but even more profitable passenger missions become available. Also, enhances reputation with some NPC's if you have at least one.
38) Livestock Cabin: Reduces cargo space, but you can trade livestock widgets (or slaves if you are willing and have contacted the right NPC's).
39) Countermeasure dispenser: Fires a short range very fast low damage homing missile automatically at any rocket within a certain distance of you.
40) ECM suite: Capable of blowing up missiles/rockets before they reach their best range in exchange for a small continuous cost in power.
41) Advanced ECM suite: As above, but more reliable.
42) ECCM suite: Reduces the effects of radar jamming, stealth suites, and ECM suites within its range.
43) Advanced ECCM suite: As above, but greater range.
44) Mass Detector: Detects cloaked vessels within a certain limited range.
45) Advanced Mass Detector: As above, but x2 range.
46) Reflective Armor: Damage from laser and blaster fire is reduced by 20%. Incompatible with ablative or disapating armor.
47) Escape Pod: You have a certain percent chance of surviving the destruction of your ship in a small vessel (provided that your escape pod isn't targeted and destroyed!)
48) Mine Sweeping Rig: You trigger proximity mines from further than their normal range, and take reduced damage from lightning mines.
49) Engineering Section: Reduces cargo space, but allows you to consume certain types of widgets in your hold at a limited rate to repair your vessel (albeit more expensively than you could when 'docked'). For instance, maybe you could consume one propriatary electronics or scrap metal (and a small ammount of power) once per minute to repair 1000 damage. Also reduces repair time on systems.
50) Nanotech Engineering Section: As above, but smaller and more power efficient.
51) Flare Dispenser: Confuses geminis and other heat-seeking missiles (cheaper alternative to counter measure dispenser and ECM suite, but effects only geminis).
52) Radio Scanner/Code Breaker: Allows you to detect and occasionally listen in (break the code) on enemy radio chatter.
53) Courier Drones: Small AI unit that can be loaded with widgets and sent to and from stations in the sector buying and selling.
54) Military Grade HUD: Light amplification software and other enhancements allow objects to be 'seen' even when the sector is pitch black (for when we have pitch black or nearly so sectors).
55) Homing Beacon Launcher: Fires a short range very fast missile. If it hits, the target always appears on radar, and a message is sent to your console every time the target jumps between sectors. Lasts 30 min.
53) Courier Drones: Small AI unit that can be loaded with widgets and sent to and from stations in the sector buying and selling.
56) Flash Missiles: Small slot rocket with EMP warhead causes screen and radar to be disrupted for a brief moment, and the target loses 200 battery power – (or equivalent damage if no power is available). Increasingly less effect as target hull points increases. (Multiply power loss by 6000/target’s hull points).
57) Leach Mines: As flash missiles, but a proximity mine. Uses the small slot.
58) Gravity Well Generator: Large slot proximity mine that when it goes off drags ships toward it for a few seconds, slowing nearby vessels down.

59-62 are updates of older weapon ideas taking into account the newer weapons and known technical limitations.

59) Disrupter: (S) - 2000 cr, Energy: 7/shot, Speed: 350 m/s, Damage: 155, Range: 1400m, Repeat: 0.1 sec
60) Light Autocannon: (S) - 900 cr, Energy: 6/shot, Speed: 130 m/s, Damage: 450, Explosive Radius: 10m
Proximity: 5m, Range: 500m, Repeat: 0.2 sec, Ammo: 50 (5 cr per shot)
61) Flechette Cannon: (S) - 2300cr, Energy: 12/shot, Speed: 120 m/s, Damage: 1500*, Range: 500m, Repeat: 0.4 Sec, Ammo: 30 (40 cr per shot), *Special: The flechette cannon shoots 6 separate munitions in a semi-random spread pattern. Each munition does 250 damage.
62) Heavy Autocannon: (L) - 2350 cr, Energy: 12/shot, Speed: 145m/s, Damage: 550, Explosive Radius: 20m, Proximity: 10m, Range: 600m, Repeat: 0.3 sec, Ammo: 40 (15cr per shot)
62a) Anti-Matter Cannon (L) - 5600 cr, Energy: 40/shot, Speed: 165 m/s, Damage: 1600, Explosive Radius: 40m, Proximity: Contact, Range: 800m, Repeat: 0.4 sec
62b) Streak Rocket Launcher: (S) - 2400cr, Energy: N/A, Speed: 70 m/s + 10 m/s^2 (max. 170 m/s)
Damage: 850, Proximity: 25m, Explosion Radius: 50m, Range: ~10s (roughly 1250m), Repeat: .5 sec., Ammunition: 12 (80cr each)
62c) Radar Guided Missiles: (S) - 6000 cr, Energy/Shot: 0, Speed: 130 m/s, Damage: 2100, Explosive Radius: 30, Proximity: Contact, Range: 15 seconds, Repeat: 0.5 seconds + Special*, Ammo: 8 (80 per shot), *Special: Must maintain 'red' in targeting reticule for 0.3 seconds to obtain 'lock'. Loses lock if target is no longer primary target of firing vessel.
63) Proximity Mine 2: 20% better proximity mine (explosive radius and damage). Uses large slot. (Regular proximity mine becomes small slot weapon.)
64) Torpedoes: Two slow rockets (say speed 45) that pack a big whollop (say 12,000+ damage). Useful for going after capital ships (for when we get frigates). (NOTE: We’ve got these now.)
65) X-Ray Lasers: Fast moving high damage beam weapon generated by small controlled nuclear explosion (as everyone knows). Large slot. 8000 cr, Energy: 30/shot + Special*, Speed: 500 m/s, Damage: 1900, Range: 1500m, Repeat: 0.7 sec, Ammo: 20 (200cr per shot), *Special: Your ship takes 200 damage whenever you fire the X-Ray Laser.
66) Nuclear Space Mine: (L) One mine only, 2000cr per mine. As proximity mine 2, but radius 240m, AND as leach mine but radius 270m.
67) Smoke Mines: This type of mine explodes a fraction of a second after being dispensed. It creates a dense 100m diameter cloud of ionized particles which are opaque to electromagnetic signals, thus preventing radar contact through the cloud, and breaking the lock on most homing weapons. The cloud dissipates after 15 seconds. Uses small slot.
68) Hardened Electronics: Quadruples your effective hull points with respect to EMP weapons, so that you resist EMP weapons as if you were a much larger ship - reducing energy lost and the time that your sensors are disrupted. (Assumes that we get EMP weapons as above).
69) Fuel Pods: Fills a weapons slot, but gives the ship 2 extra slots of fuel space.
70) External Cargo Pod: Gives the ship 4 slots of general cargo space but makes the ship slower and more unmanueverable as if it had the mass of a larger class of ship.
71) Pulse Cannon: Large slot EMP direct fire weapon. Each blast causes 50 power loss modified by target’s hull as above.
72) Tractor Beam: Direct fire weapon imparts a motion on the target towards the direction of fire. Useful for slowing down another ship, if you can get it to hit. Increasingly less effect as target size increases. Uses large slot.
73) Repulsor Beam: As above, but away from firer.
74) Service Bay: Reduces cargo space, but lets you act as a limited station, repairing a certain number of smaller ships and allowing them to buy and sell widgets/gizmos (with prices determined by you).
75) Fighter Bays: Allows two smaller ships (fighter class) to dock with you. Can purchase AI ships to hold in bays. Uses very large weapons slot.

These ideas (74-81) dealt with weapons for capital ships. I’ve since had ideas that superceded them and may discuss them in another thread.

82) Torpedo Rack: Very large weapon. As Avalon Torpedoes, but rack of 20 and twice the firing rate.
83) Hunter-Killer Drone Rack: Very large weapon. Rack of 5 AI drones, similar to fighters but without weapons and like fighters can be targeted and shot down. Slow moving long range homing missile, but accelerates slowly over time to turbo speeds. If not shot down (or avoided until it runs out of juice), impacts for very high damage (say 32,000).
84) Nuclear Hunter Killer Drone: Very large weapon. Games Ultimate weapon. As above, but cost x10, and is a proximity weapon AND has EMP burst effect over 500m radius (as nuclear space mine). Might be too powerful. Would have to see if high cost and vulnerability to fire would balance weapon.
85) Nuclear Space Mine Rack: Very large weapon. As nuclear space mine, but rack of 20.
86) Ship's Tractor Beam: Very large weapon. As tractor beam, but more potent.
87) Diagnostic Computer: Gives a bonus to your technician skill and so makes it easier/quicker to repair damaged systems on your ship.
88) Paint Job: Cheap upgrade that puts a small visual icon on the outside of your ship.
89) Illegal Paint Job: Expensive upgrade available from only select NPC's (spy agencies, criminal underworld). Paints your ship in the colors of another faction. Doesn't confuse radar/scanner, but may confuse enemy pilots briefly.
90) Espionage Suite: Emits coded signals and other hailing codes that cause you to appear to be someone you are not. You may give yourself a false name and false faction ID on radar. There is a chance a scanner will penetrate the disguise, and unless you have an illegal paint job, visual scanning will penetrate the disguise as well.
91) Tight Beam Communicator: Your radio communication is only 1/3rd as likely to be picked up by a frequency scanner.
92) Passive Sensors: You don’t need your radar to be active in order to obtain a weapons lock, as such, you are harder to detect by enemy radar (you aren’t emitting signals) but also have a harder time detecting targets. (Could be standard equipment on a ship).
93) Military Grade Sensors: As above but twice the normal range.
94) Advanced Passive Sensors: As above but three times the normal range.
95) Ram scoop: You replenish fuel continuously at a rate that increases with speed.
96) Positron Converter: You can exchange energy for fuel, effectively giving your ship infinite jump range. (Kinda like we have now but you could dump energy into fuel to store it for latter).
97) Ablative Armor: Damage from rail guns, gauss cannons, and Gatling cannons is reduced by 20%. Incompatible with dissipating or reflective armor.
98) Force Dissipating Armor: Damage from explosions, plasma cannons, and charged cannons is reduced by 20%. Incompatible with ablative or reflective armor.
99) Astromech: Reduces cargo space but allows you to exchange a small ammount of continious power for very slow hull repair (2 power/second = 1 hull point repaired/second). Also gives you the equivalent of a minimum tech and mechanic skill when repairing damaged systems.
100) Casino/Entertainment Center: Reduces cargo space but increases the profitability of passenger missions.
May 20, 2003 Suicidal Lemming link
WHAT?!?!?!

My ideas for mines to blow up other mines isn't up there? GRRRR



Oh wait, thats allready been implemented. =)

Oh and, i don't think santa has enough time to read that long list.
May 20, 2003 roguelazer link
The prices on your weapons are wacky. 8000c for an X-Ray Laser? That's a mighty good price... I'd say double all of those prices to be more accurate.
May 20, 2003 Renegade ++RIP++ link
47) Escape Pod: You have a certain percent chance of surviving the destruction of your ship in a small vessel (provided that your escape pod isn't targeted and destroyed!)

I was wondering why you put this one in since the devs said that we won't die or something along these lines

cheers
May 20, 2003 Craigus Meridius link
What would also be nice, would be to have a neutral repair drone flying around in random sectors, offering repairs at cost for all Races. This would be especiall good for flag carriers or when no stn is present.

The 'i' Command needs to be changed so we can increase or decrease the scope.

Any chance of adding external turrets too. Or one use Nitro's!!

White Magic.

May 20, 2003 Craigus Meridius link
Forgot to add the /explode command should act as a Nuke Explosion. Instead of just exploding. This can be used in tactical situations and makes sense due to the ships reactor being turned inside out !!!

Thanx

WM
May 20, 2003 asphyxia link
ohh, can we have optional furry dice to hang in the cockpit?? =)
May 20, 2003 slappyknappy link
While it's not guaranteed that any of these will be implemented (I'm not a dev, and neither is Celebrim, if I'm not mistaken) but I suggested resurrecting this thread to show the slew of recent noobs how much potential there is here.

re: the X-Ray laser. 8000c isn't too bad, when you consider it hurts your ship too. but, I have to admit that the first time I read "X-Ray" I thought (in homer voice) "Mmmmm... can shoot through asteroids... mmmmmm...." Remember that gun in half life that could shoot through walls :-)
May 20, 2003 Renegade ++RIP++ link
whas there a gun in half life with which you could shoot through walls ????

is puzzled

cheers
May 20, 2003 slappyknappy link
Yes there was. I don't remember what it was called but if you charged it it would go through walls. Great for sniping those annoying lurkers who were always hiding behind things...
May 20, 2003 slappyknappy link
New gizmo idea to (potentially) add to the master list: Various wormhole-related devices. Some of these could be difficult to implement...

1) Wormhole detection probes: A spray of small drones that radiate outwards in a cone. each has a pulsing light: red = no wormhole. Green = wormhole detected. Great for pinpointing that hidden wormhole that you know is right around here somewhere...
2) Wormhole HUD filter: all wormholes (even hidden ones) show up visually but not on radar. Visual range is fairly short to still make it difficult to see hidden wormholes.
3) Wormhole radar: all wormholes (even hidden ones) show up on radar, but not visually. Radar range should be fairly short, for the same reason.
4) Navigation beacon; Marks a location for a set duration. Not necessary used for wormhole marking, but it could be used for that.
5) Message beacons: As above, but you can type a message into the beacon. example "caution: hidden sector contains 1000-bounty death bots" or "Assault force meet here and await command" OPTION: make messages team-specific.
6) Wormhole destabilizer. A version of an EMP torpedo that will detonate upon impact with a wormhole and either narrow the wormhole to a very small speck (harder to reach), or even close the wormhole down completely for a number of minutes.
7) Wormhole amplifier. As above, but increases the size of the wormhole by 250 meters in all directions for a set number of minutes. Why? So you can fly that fleet through without breaking formation :-)
8) Wormhole generator. The RPG classic "Town portal" device, where you can create a wormhole to your home sector.
9) Advanced wormhole generator: as above, but you can place both ends where you want to create a point-to-point link between say, your attack fleet and the enemy home sector.
10) Warp Missile: Upon impact, the target is ripped from normal space and hurled through a momentary wormhole to a random sector. As the universe grows, this could be limited to a sector within 5 or 10 sectors of your current location to prevent the target from being hurled light years away with little hope of ever returning home*
11) Warp Mine: As above, but a mine rather than a missile.
12) surveillance probe. A small probe that you can navigate around. Very fast and maneuverable but with no weapons, a hull of 1... oh, and your main ship is defenseless while you're controlling the probe.
13) Inter-wormhole surveillance probe. A small probe that you can navigate through wormholes - so you can check out the other side without flying your main ship through.
14) Inter-wormhole bombs: A torpedo or missile that will travel through a wormhole and detonate immediately on the other side. large splash radius, moderate damage... used as a deterrent to wormhole camping, and as a preparation to advancing a large fleet into known hostile sectors.

* And to prevent any semblance to Star Trek Voyager... the suckiest of all sucky Star Treks. :-)
May 20, 2003 UncleDave link
This is just... wow. Put all that stuff in and youve got one hell of a game.
May 21, 2003 HumpyThePenguin link
mmm......insta wormholes.....mmmmmm
/me loves the Adv wormhole generator :D
May 21, 2003 Celebrim link
"1) Wormhole detection probes:"

Is it possible that a normal radar probe could accomplish the same purpose? At least at present wormholes do appear on radar.

"2) Wormhole HUD..."

Not a bad idea. If a wormhole is detectable by some sensor, then there is no reason it can't be on your HUD.

"3) Wormhole radar:..."

Wormholes already show up on radar. A better upgrade would make wormholes more distinctive on radar (ei gives them a different color, or a little wormhole circle with '?') or show up on radar at greater distances. Of course, the idea may be obseleted by advances in navigation interface, and the devs might not intend wormholes to show up on radar.

"4) Navigation beacon..."

Could be useful for guiding n00bs around and would be easy to implement (basically a mine that doesn't go boom).

"5) Message beacons..."

Maybe. Space graphitti and similar spam could get annoying, and raises moderator issues.

"6) Wormhole destabilizer..."

This is a power that is potentially VERY abusable. Shutting down a wormhole even temporarily should require moderator council approval, and which should require (even if it is allowed) expenditure equivalent to the income of several players.

"7) Wormhole amplifier...."

Maybe. I'm not sure how useful it would actually be.

"8) Wormhole generator...."

Do we really want 'Get out of jail free' cards? And among other things, think of the problems this raises in balancing trade routes?

"9) Advanced wormhole generator:..."

As above, but magnify the problem 100 fold. You might as well get rid of the wormholes entirely. Everywhere is adjacent to everywhere else. There is no distance. Jump straight from 18 to 14. Jump in somewhere, lauch some weapons, jump out again to any point in the universe. Jump straight from 1 to 3. Heck, you practically obselete the engine. A light engine is just fine. Who needs to run through normal space to get anywhere? No, I don't think that will make things more fun.

"10) Warp Missile:..."

It's not quite one shot one kill, but its still cheese. One shot ends the fight. Fire a couple of these and suddenly you have 3:1 odds in your favor. Fire one of these, and you get yourself out of any fight.

"11) Warp Mine:..."

As above, but a mine rather than a missile.

"12) Surveillance probe..."

At one time there was a discussion of Descent style guided missiles (missile cam). This is the same sort of idea, and I still don't have anything in particular against it provided the interface issues can be solved.

"13) Inter-wormhole surveillance probe..."

Communication with one of these could be spammy unless it sends back pictures. For instance, the probe jumps in and reports all the contacts it has. Does the probe also report any mines it encounters? Basically an improved version of #12 above, and has the same issues.

"14) Inter-wormhole bombs:"

Opens up too much in the way of cheese.
May 21, 2003 UncleDave link
Make the beacons destructible, and you have your solution to the spam.
May 21, 2003 slappyknappy link
In regards to all wormhole altering items:

Yes, these could be abused and result in cheese. Probably cheeze-whiz cheese. ...Maybe I should have added that I envision these items as costing roughly the same amount as a very large capital ship: something to be used only in large coordinated attacks by fleets of players. It would be cost-prohibitive for single-person use, especially when the same cash would get you a wicked-cool capital ship. However, they could be awesome for fleet-to-fleet combat.

In regards to the probes: I envision launching a probe, and flying it around like any other ship. You jump wormholes, etc, like you normally do. Only while you do it your regular ship just sits in space on its present course. The pros: you learn stuff, and if the probe gets killed because it just warped into a sector with uber-bots, no skin off your back. The con: your ship is defenseless... so you can't stay in the probe too long... and need to be careful about when you use it.

"Do we really want 'Get out of jail free' cards? And among other things, think of the problems this raises in balancing trade routes?"

again, I had envisioned it as a capital-ship-level item... but I also hadn't thought of the impact on the trade routes. A fleet could easily trade en-masse through a wormhole in one uber-convoy and regain the cost of the wormhole generator ten-fold... hmmm... maybe leaving this item out is a good idea.

I do like the idea of being able to somewhat (and temporarily) control wormholes... but these devices would have to be hard to et, expensive to get, very rare, and introduce consequences to the reputation system. Otherwise new players would find themselves without common noob-sector wormholes, and the whole universe would destabilize to the point that nobody would be able to figure anything out.

May 21, 2003 roguelazer link
The wormhole expander is a great idea, though. I can't even begin to count the times I've been 50m from the gate with a flag when the defending team has seen and mounted a better assault, which killed me. Had I been able to suddenly jump when they thought I was 250m away, I could have gotten away. Kudos for that idea. Now, for one of my own...

1. Defense bot: Basically, this gizmo provides you with a temporary turret that follows your ship around and shoots whatever enemy you have targeted. It lasts for 2 minutes or so, and you can fit 2 of them to one large slot. They are armed with phased blasters and the equivalent of small batteries. Maybe they are tethered to your ship or something (Yes, that was stolen from Descent 3)

2. Hologram Generator: Projects a visual and radar image of your ship which an AI assumes control of. This ship cannot give or recieve damage and lasts for 5 minutes, but has all of the attributes of your ship (including the little flag glow) otherwise. This gizmo consumes your entire battery to create, then requires approx 5 energy per second from then on (it effectively slows your battery recharge).

3. Comm Jammer Drone: This drone is dropped like a mine and silences anyone within 500m from both teamchat and regular chat. Any messages that they send are replaced with "<Name> *static*". These last for between 5 and 10 minutes and 4 of them can be held in a gizmo/large weapon slot.

4. Hacking Suite: Using this gizmo on an opponent downloads their map and allows you to see their hull and weapons status at the time of download. Note that the first function of this device only becomes applicable when secret warpgates' locations are stored locally on the HUD.



On the topic of Gizmos that ARE Weapons, here's my idea:

1. Electro-static discharge: At the expense of 500 energy (requires a large batt), your ship sends out an electro-static discharge with a radius of 500m. This discharge does 10% damage to all friendlies AND enemies and paralyzes their ships for 10 seconds. Their battery is completely discharged as well and recharge does not start until the 10 seconds is up. Your ship, however, is not affected. Large slot required.


Anyhow, that's it for now. Tune back in later for more ideas from the Roguelazer Foundry of Ideas.
May 21, 2003 Suicidal Lemming link
Mmmmm EMP gun
Mmmmm

Launch, KILL KILL KILL
May 22, 2003 Renegade ++RIP++ link
me thinks someone watched matrix reloaded :D

cheers
Jun 02, 2003 Renegade ++RIP++ link
euhm got this bumped ???

cheers