Forums » Suggestions
FatStrat85:
> I hope you reconsider canceling your subscription.
I canceled it today.
> This is a fun game, mostly because of the great PvP, you just need
> to put the time in. Trust me, I've flown with you in-game and you
> haven't invested anywhere near enough time time to criticize the
> flight and comabt model this harshly. You're really bad and are
> very resistant to advice. Please consider practicing some more.
It`s not a matter of time, practising or advice. The ships continue to
handle like trucks, no improvement has come from practising, and the
advice I get is that I should dodge which doesn`t work.
Someone suggested that a way to learn is trial and error. But to learn
by that way requires that you find out what the error was, and to
achieve any improvement, it requires that there is not only another
way to try out, but also a better way. But in the game, you don`t even
find out what the error was, except for leaving the station maybe.
> You might be surprised when you start to warm up to VO's approach to
> flight and combat.
There`s nothing to warm up with. As said, you can`t even see where the
ship moves to and won`t know if it moves at all if you don`t look at
the speed indicator. The debris is no help because it`s invisible
unless you concentrate on looking out for it, but even if you see it
then, it`s still too thin to be of much help.
I don`t know if it`s the lack of debris, the sluggishness of the ships
or whatever. Whatever it is, the game doesn`t give any feeling about
the movement, so there`s nothing to warm up with.
Some ppl describe that the ship is supposed to be standing still while
the universe is moved around it. It`s a good description to make the
flight model understandable, and it`s a good example here because
`flying` feels more like the ship is standing still all the time than
anything else, except maybe for driving a very slow submarine under
water.
> This is a game of skill. Pretty much everyone else was able to
> become good enough to kill off several of the hardest bots at one
> time. That's considered a pretty easy and basic skill in VO, usually
> requiring only a few weeks or less of practice. I'm sure with an
> open mind, you'll be able to do the same. Everyone else can do it,
> so do you really think you're that much worse of a gamer than
> everyone else here?
I tried and it turned out to be impossible. The bots just surround you
and shoot at you from all directions so that your dead again after a
second. Fight a single bot and it will not surround you, but hit you,
and if it takes too long to kill it because your weapons are too weak
or the battery is constantly depleted, you either have to run for
repairs, or you die again, or you die while trying to run. Eventually,
a second bot approaches while your shooting at the first one, and all
you can try then is to run out of their crossfire for repairs, with a
chance for successful running of maybe 20%. Maybe a decent radar would
help, but there is none.
Sometimes one or the other player suddenly shows up and shoots you,
and before you could do much or anything at all, your dead again. Try
doing bulk procurement missions to improve your standing, and you get
caught in storms where bots hang around and blow you up because your
moth is too slow to run and totally defenseless --- or you meet some
pirate who shoots you down as well. Then you find out that you don`t
get any points towards standing even after doing 5 or 6 such
missions. You could do others, but they are always the same, and
except for the small amounts of money you don`t really need, there`s
nothing to achieve doing them. You could go mining, but either bots or
players will get you and you don`t really need the money from it,
either.
So all what`s left to do is sitting in a station, but that`s
boring. You could go and shoot some bots, but it doesn`t take long
before they kill you, and it`s only a waste of money for ship repairs
and new ships since the bots respawn indefinitely.
Though I have tried all ships that became available --- except for the
marauder which, telling from the stats, seems to be no different than
the others --- none of them is really fun to fly. None of them was
ever up to the demands of combat. Try hauling 16000lbs with a golf
cart, and you get the idea. You want a Cummins or a Dmax for that, but
not the golf cart. If the ship models were `realistic`, the ships
would fall apart rapidly just from flying because they are constantly
operated at their utter limits.
It may be your definition of fun to sit in tin coffins and die in them
every other second or minute, but it`s not mine.
> I hope you reconsider canceling your subscription.
I canceled it today.
> This is a fun game, mostly because of the great PvP, you just need
> to put the time in. Trust me, I've flown with you in-game and you
> haven't invested anywhere near enough time time to criticize the
> flight and comabt model this harshly. You're really bad and are
> very resistant to advice. Please consider practicing some more.
It`s not a matter of time, practising or advice. The ships continue to
handle like trucks, no improvement has come from practising, and the
advice I get is that I should dodge which doesn`t work.
Someone suggested that a way to learn is trial and error. But to learn
by that way requires that you find out what the error was, and to
achieve any improvement, it requires that there is not only another
way to try out, but also a better way. But in the game, you don`t even
find out what the error was, except for leaving the station maybe.
> You might be surprised when you start to warm up to VO's approach to
> flight and combat.
There`s nothing to warm up with. As said, you can`t even see where the
ship moves to and won`t know if it moves at all if you don`t look at
the speed indicator. The debris is no help because it`s invisible
unless you concentrate on looking out for it, but even if you see it
then, it`s still too thin to be of much help.
I don`t know if it`s the lack of debris, the sluggishness of the ships
or whatever. Whatever it is, the game doesn`t give any feeling about
the movement, so there`s nothing to warm up with.
Some ppl describe that the ship is supposed to be standing still while
the universe is moved around it. It`s a good description to make the
flight model understandable, and it`s a good example here because
`flying` feels more like the ship is standing still all the time than
anything else, except maybe for driving a very slow submarine under
water.
> This is a game of skill. Pretty much everyone else was able to
> become good enough to kill off several of the hardest bots at one
> time. That's considered a pretty easy and basic skill in VO, usually
> requiring only a few weeks or less of practice. I'm sure with an
> open mind, you'll be able to do the same. Everyone else can do it,
> so do you really think you're that much worse of a gamer than
> everyone else here?
I tried and it turned out to be impossible. The bots just surround you
and shoot at you from all directions so that your dead again after a
second. Fight a single bot and it will not surround you, but hit you,
and if it takes too long to kill it because your weapons are too weak
or the battery is constantly depleted, you either have to run for
repairs, or you die again, or you die while trying to run. Eventually,
a second bot approaches while your shooting at the first one, and all
you can try then is to run out of their crossfire for repairs, with a
chance for successful running of maybe 20%. Maybe a decent radar would
help, but there is none.
Sometimes one or the other player suddenly shows up and shoots you,
and before you could do much or anything at all, your dead again. Try
doing bulk procurement missions to improve your standing, and you get
caught in storms where bots hang around and blow you up because your
moth is too slow to run and totally defenseless --- or you meet some
pirate who shoots you down as well. Then you find out that you don`t
get any points towards standing even after doing 5 or 6 such
missions. You could do others, but they are always the same, and
except for the small amounts of money you don`t really need, there`s
nothing to achieve doing them. You could go mining, but either bots or
players will get you and you don`t really need the money from it,
either.
So all what`s left to do is sitting in a station, but that`s
boring. You could go and shoot some bots, but it doesn`t take long
before they kill you, and it`s only a waste of money for ship repairs
and new ships since the bots respawn indefinitely.
Though I have tried all ships that became available --- except for the
marauder which, telling from the stats, seems to be no different than
the others --- none of them is really fun to fly. None of them was
ever up to the demands of combat. Try hauling 16000lbs with a golf
cart, and you get the idea. You want a Cummins or a Dmax for that, but
not the golf cart. If the ship models were `realistic`, the ships
would fall apart rapidly just from flying because they are constantly
operated at their utter limits.
It may be your definition of fun to sit in tin coffins and die in them
every other second or minute, but it`s not mine.
OK, we get it.
You didnt like the game.
Farewell, have fun, take care and go play something else then.
You didnt like the game.
Farewell, have fun, take care and go play something else then.
bulk procurement can be done in non-pirate sectors, and you can go around storms, and you can run your moth with concussion mines.
mining can be done in non-bot sectors... actually thats where some of the best ore is.
come back some day you might like it better
mining can be done in non-bot sectors... actually thats where some of the best ore is.
come back some day you might like it better
The bots just surround you
and shoot at you from all directions so that your dead again after a
second.
Keep your eyes on your enemies, keep 'em in front of you. This is space kung-fu ;)
and shoot at you from all directions so that your dead again after a
second.
Keep your eyes on your enemies, keep 'em in front of you. This is space kung-fu ;)
Sounds like someone's feeling sorry for himself and having a pity party.
You must have played for a while, since you can apparently obtain a behemoth. In that time you never got a couple of bot kills?
I'm thinking that your strafe buttons are broken, or you don't know how to turn autoaim on, or something. This combat model is pretty simple to understand, and it's child's play to dodge shots from orun, kannik and dentek collectors.
As far as the speed thing, you must not know about the Turbo button. Ever tried docking a behemoth at 150 m/s? Kinda hair-raising.
Well, it's sad that you gave it a shot and didn't like it. Seems like you just didn't have anyone around to teach you anything, or like Strat said, you didn't listen to a damn word of advice because you enjoy complaining so much.
You must have played for a while, since you can apparently obtain a behemoth. In that time you never got a couple of bot kills?
I'm thinking that your strafe buttons are broken, or you don't know how to turn autoaim on, or something. This combat model is pretty simple to understand, and it's child's play to dodge shots from orun, kannik and dentek collectors.
As far as the speed thing, you must not know about the Turbo button. Ever tried docking a behemoth at 150 m/s? Kinda hair-raising.
Well, it's sad that you gave it a shot and didn't like it. Seems like you just didn't have anyone around to teach you anything, or like Strat said, you didn't listen to a damn word of advice because you enjoy complaining so much.
What is this guy's license levels? The way he's talking, he's still botting on the original Oruns...
Assuming this is the case....do the tutorial. Take a look at what keys make you strafe. Mess with Flight Assist. o.O
Otherwise...you must kinda suck. o.O
Assuming this is the case....do the tutorial. Take a look at what keys make you strafe. Mess with Flight Assist. o.O
Otherwise...you must kinda suck. o.O
I'm also a little confused. And surprised that someone could get that far without learning the game fundamentals. I'm guessing he never did the tutorials or had a mentor at all? It's too bad :(. I'm sure the game *is* really frustrating, if you've never learned how to play it.
I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving, yun.
That being said, yun had his own idea of how the game should be. He had plenty of help from the player-base. I spent several HOURS just giving advice, showing him around, and trying to get him to dodge.
He refused to use auto-aim becuase he said his aim was too awesome from the other games he played to allow a computer to mess with it. He refused to use the leadoff indicator because he claimed his perception of relative motion was much more accurate than that of the computer's (yet he complained that he wanted a motion indicator added to the HUD...). He also changed all the key binds around, which may have severely impared his ability to effectively strafe.
This is a case of someone who is unwilling to take any advice because he thinks he already knows everything there is to know about space gaming. He felt that any problems he had were the fault of the game and not of himself.
It's funny that a noob with no past gaming experience probably would have been able to easily destroy yun after a week of practice. This is only because the noob would of had an open mind and would have learned. Yun's past gaming experience, close-mindedness, and arrogance prevented him from ever progressing past the skills of a week-old player.
That being said, yun had his own idea of how the game should be. He had plenty of help from the player-base. I spent several HOURS just giving advice, showing him around, and trying to get him to dodge.
He refused to use auto-aim becuase he said his aim was too awesome from the other games he played to allow a computer to mess with it. He refused to use the leadoff indicator because he claimed his perception of relative motion was much more accurate than that of the computer's (yet he complained that he wanted a motion indicator added to the HUD...). He also changed all the key binds around, which may have severely impared his ability to effectively strafe.
This is a case of someone who is unwilling to take any advice because he thinks he already knows everything there is to know about space gaming. He felt that any problems he had were the fault of the game and not of himself.
It's funny that a noob with no past gaming experience probably would have been able to easily destroy yun after a week of practice. This is only because the noob would of had an open mind and would have learned. Yun's past gaming experience, close-mindedness, and arrogance prevented him from ever progressing past the skills of a week-old player.
Ha.
who was this ingame?
and was this person in a guild? or groups?
did they even leave nation space? or nation home systems even?
all these questions stir up a really important question....
do we really care that a person that never really stood out from the crowd of npc's is leaving, and furthermore, why this person's thread title is so freaking long?!? next time... CHOOSE A TITLE!
and was this person in a guild? or groups?
did they even leave nation space? or nation home systems even?
all these questions stir up a really important question....
do we really care that a person that never really stood out from the crowd of npc's is leaving, and furthermore, why this person's thread title is so freaking long?!? next time... CHOOSE A TITLE!
Auto-aim provides your guns with opportunities that they would not have without it. All weapons in this game, with the exception of the Rail Gun, act as if they were mounted on a swiveling turret of some degree. Personally I find this to give the game an especially futuristic feel to it, considering how much of combat is based on computer controlled aiming, and 'locking on' to a target. If anyone else feels discouraged, bear that in mind. If you don't like using auto-aim, then there's a gun for you called the Rail Gun, and I recommend it.
Because of this method of combat, there are many situations where you can't always shoot an opponent, and dodge his shots at the same time. There are situations where having extra armour is useful, because if you can force yourself into these kinds of combat, the bigger ship will likely be the one still flying at the end of it. It could be that you're the type of pilot who relies on heavy ships, not for a lack of the ability to dodge, but instead for your skill at bulldozing weaker ships aside. Don't be ashamed to grab a Ragnorak! It's truly a one of a kind ship.
Sometimes numbers *do* matter. In any sort of realistic combat, particularly with guns, there is a point where no amount of skill, strength, or knowledge can overcome the greater odds, and most likely yun has picked this specific circumstance. (And knowing his determination to sway the arguement to his favor, I wouldn't be surprised if the bots he was referring to were Valent Assaults against him in an EC-89, or something to that effect.) There *is* a flow of human intuition that can best all odds, and for a limited time render you in all effect impervious to enemy attacks. I've seen Ghost fight like a demon during the Nation Wars, taking down 7 UIT against him alone in an IBG for example. This guy wrote a book about it too, http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ground/ . But as our friend yun faithfully pointed out, that sort of thing doesn't work against bots, because well, they're computers. (I guess that means it also won't work on me, because I learned to fight from computers, mwahaha!)
So, the point is, there's a ship and place for everyone, and accordingly the difference between being stubborn and being determined is when you force ridiculous disadvantages on yourself based on ego, such as turning off auto-aim on your Gatling Turret, because you're just... that... good. Determination is when after being defeated, you fight to understand what you could have done better next time, and work hard on doing it. No amount of skill can bend the rules of the game, but that doesn't mean that if you can't accomplish something, it's not your lack of skill. So, if anyone reading yun's complaints gets discouraged, keep trying! It's no exageration that each and every human (Dr. Lecter doesn't count, being inhuman) adds a great deal to the whole game. Instead of everyone bashing yun, let's try and keep his sour attitude from scaring away potential players. In fact, I'm going to go rock Deneb now, just to spite him!
Because of this method of combat, there are many situations where you can't always shoot an opponent, and dodge his shots at the same time. There are situations where having extra armour is useful, because if you can force yourself into these kinds of combat, the bigger ship will likely be the one still flying at the end of it. It could be that you're the type of pilot who relies on heavy ships, not for a lack of the ability to dodge, but instead for your skill at bulldozing weaker ships aside. Don't be ashamed to grab a Ragnorak! It's truly a one of a kind ship.
Sometimes numbers *do* matter. In any sort of realistic combat, particularly with guns, there is a point where no amount of skill, strength, or knowledge can overcome the greater odds, and most likely yun has picked this specific circumstance. (And knowing his determination to sway the arguement to his favor, I wouldn't be surprised if the bots he was referring to were Valent Assaults against him in an EC-89, or something to that effect.) There *is* a flow of human intuition that can best all odds, and for a limited time render you in all effect impervious to enemy attacks. I've seen Ghost fight like a demon during the Nation Wars, taking down 7 UIT against him alone in an IBG for example. This guy wrote a book about it too, http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ground/ . But as our friend yun faithfully pointed out, that sort of thing doesn't work against bots, because well, they're computers. (I guess that means it also won't work on me, because I learned to fight from computers, mwahaha!)
So, the point is, there's a ship and place for everyone, and accordingly the difference between being stubborn and being determined is when you force ridiculous disadvantages on yourself based on ego, such as turning off auto-aim on your Gatling Turret, because you're just... that... good. Determination is when after being defeated, you fight to understand what you could have done better next time, and work hard on doing it. No amount of skill can bend the rules of the game, but that doesn't mean that if you can't accomplish something, it's not your lack of skill. So, if anyone reading yun's complaints gets discouraged, keep trying! It's no exageration that each and every human (Dr. Lecter doesn't count, being inhuman) adds a great deal to the whole game. Instead of everyone bashing yun, let's try and keep his sour attitude from scaring away potential players. In fact, I'm going to go rock Deneb now, just to spite him!
ArAsH:
> Keep your eyes on your enemies, keep 'em in front of you.
Hence my vote for a better radar.
===
Lexicon:
> In that time you never got a couple of bot kills?
I did, still they keep hitting me.
> I'm thinking that your strafe buttons are broken,
They actually are, to some extend. Pressing more than three buttons at
once doesn`t work, so I had to make some toggles. Keyboards seem to be
different in the number of buttons that can be pressed simultaneously.
> Well, it's sad that you gave it a shot and didn't like it.
I don`t say that I don`t like it. It`s just some things that I don`t
like or that I think could be improved. But naming such things mott is
responded to like everything was perfect as it is.
If I just won`t like it, I won`t make such a fuss about it.
===
Harry Seldon:
> What is this guy's license levels?
License levels only tell you about how long someone has been
playing. Current levels is 5/7/6/10/5.
> Assuming this is the case....do the tutorial.
The tutorial missions were not available when I started playing. They
became available the next day or so, but I didn`t want to try them
immediately at that time. Later I tried one, but I aborted it because
something else was coming up and wanted to try again later. But
shortly after, they became unavailable again.
===
Incarnate:
> And surprised that someone could get that far without learning the
> game fundamentals.
You can do that with some persistence and all the help you get from
other players.
> I'm sure the game *is* really frustrating, if you've never learned
> how to play it.
Hence my suggestion about some better way to learn, like having a
system or sector where players will respawn immediately in their last
ship when they die, or introducing practise weapons that do no or very
little damage, but count the hits. Ships and weapons there would be
provided free of charge and free of licenses --- consider it as a kind
of flight simulator. I`ve very much been whishing for something like
that!
The way it is, every death adds to your account, makes you loose money
for a new ship and requires you to fly around for a relatively long
amount of time (compared to how long a fight lasts) to get back to the
battlefield. It`s just not much fun to do that. You do it once, die
immediately and then avoid it.
My impression is that new players in particular don`t want to learn it
that way: They don`t have much money, don`t have the better ships and
don`t last long in combat. They are already busy with learning about
other things in the game. But if they could click on a button and
enter the `flight simulator`, they would do that.
===
FatStrat85:
> He refused to use auto-aim becuase he said his aim was too awesome
> from the other games he played to allow a computer to mess with
> it. He refused to use the leadoff indicator because he claimed his
> perception of relative motion was much more accurate than that of
> the computer's (yet he complained that he wanted a motion indicator
> added to the HUD...).
That`s not true. I was only saying that my experience with
autotargeting in other games tended to make things worse and that I
couldn`t tell how it`s in VO. I tried it out and found that turning if
off greatly decreased the hit rate; so I left it turned on.
> He also changed all the key binds around, which may have severely
> impared his ability to effectively strafe.
For one thing, settings from the beta were still in ~/.vendetta, and
they were used (whatever effect that had).
For another thing, I`m playing with a trackball in the left hand and
was never able to use a default like `wasdf` (or what it is). I
changed that already when I was playing for the first time a game that
used such a default --- if I recall it right, that must have been the
first version of Unreal, 10 years or so ago. Since that, I`m used to
use Ins, Home, PgUp, Del, End and PgDown for movement --- which is not
enough keys for VO because you don`t have any keys there for rolling.
To have more keys available, I first tried to use the numpad. I found
out that pressing more then 3 keys doesn`t work and started to make
toggles for rolling/sliding. But that didn`t work very well either,
and I switched back to using Ins etc.. Besides that, I have some
toggles on the numpad from 1--9, turbo on ctrl and brake on KP_0 and
backspace. I`m still missing decent keys for targeting ...
I tried out a joystick and found out that I`m forced to use it with
the left hand, though I have been using the joystick with the right
hand before I switched to trackballs. Imagine that, or better, try it
out. The joystick seems to have advantages when fighting a single
opponent, but it turned out horribly when fighting several at
once. Flying that way in combat in VO demands multitasking and is
quite exhausting.
So please try a setup like this before you blame me of having changed
the key bindings. Any suggestions how to improve them are welcome ---
I just didn`t have any better idea yet.
> This is a case of someone who is unwilling to take any advice
> because he thinks he already knows everything there is to know about
> space gaming. He felt that any problems he had were the fault of the
> game and not of himself.
That`s also not true. I`m only hard to convince that I should do
something that turns out not to work when I do it. You also cannot
deny the fact that any ship in the game will explode after only a few
hits. That is not a question of skill but of how the ships are made.
I am preoccupied because I`m used to games where ships have shields,
and I still think it would be good to have such ships in VO because
that would give players more options to choose from.
> It's funny that a noob with no past gaming experience probably would
> have been able to easily destroy yun after a week of practice.
It would take him two or three days, not even a week.
===
drdoak007:
> and was this person in a guild? or groups?
yes
> did they even leave nation space? or nation home systems even?
yes
> do we really care that a person that never really stood out from the
> crowd of npc's is leaving, and furthermore,
Apparently you do, and it`s nice that you do so.
> why this person's thread title is so freaking long?!? next
> time... CHOOSE A TITLE!
The title is long because it`s an URL which refers to the origin of
this thread which lies within another one the URL refers to. I`m not
happy with that, and this thread even doesn`t actually fit under
`Suggestions` --- but I placed it here so that those who may concern
may find it.
===
SuperMegaMynt:
> Because of this method of combat, there are many situations where
> you can't always shoot an opponent, and dodge his shots at the same
> time. There are situations where having extra armour is useful,
> because if you can force yourself into these kinds of combat, the
> bigger ship will likely be the one still flying at the end of it.
That is why I prefer heavier ships, and preferably with
shields. Sitting in a tin coffin without shields that inevitably takes
hull(!) damage due to a lack of shields scares me to hell, especially
when even the heaviest ship lasts only about 2 or 3 seconds when under
fire.
I do not say that everyone should sit in utterly heavy ships with
impenetrable shields. But I vote for ships with shields as an option
to choose from for those who prefer a different way of fighting or
want to try it out. To make up for the shields, these ships would have
to be limited in other features, like having less armor, less
maneuvreability, more weight, higher energy consumption or a
combination thereof, or whatever.
> (And knowing his determination to sway the arguement to his favor, I
> wouldn't be surprised if the bots he was referring to were Valent
> Assaults against him in an EC-89, or something to that effect.)
To name something in particular, think of the escort of a Queen, being
fought against to no avail in Vultures, Hornets, Rags, Centurions and
Centaurs. To get the escort down appears to be considered as "a pretty
easy and basic skill in VO, usually requiring only a few weeks or less
of practice"[1] --- if an escort is considered to consist of "several
of the hardest bots"[2] (which I can`t tell).
I was `stubborn` enough to try it and `determined` enough to try
different ways, still I can`t do it. And I do not blame the game for
it since it may mean forcing the "ridiculous disadvantages" upon me
(which I can`t tell, though not a few players claim to be able to do
it).
> So, the point is, there's a ship and place for everyone,
That`s an assumption not necessarily true.
> No amount of skill can bend the rules of the game, but that doesn't
> mean that if you can't accomplish something, it's not your lack of
> skill.
It also doesn`t mean that it were your lack of skill. It may as well
be the rules of the game.
Since you clearly see that players may have a preference for one way
of fighting or another, for one type of ship or another, please think
a step further and just allow the assumption that there is not a ship
for everyone (because of the rules of the game). To what conclusion
would that lead you to?
That the game is not for everyone? Heh, don`t be that stubborn.
[1]: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/13242?page=5#194245
[2]: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/13242?page=5#194245
> Keep your eyes on your enemies, keep 'em in front of you.
Hence my vote for a better radar.
===
Lexicon:
> In that time you never got a couple of bot kills?
I did, still they keep hitting me.
> I'm thinking that your strafe buttons are broken,
They actually are, to some extend. Pressing more than three buttons at
once doesn`t work, so I had to make some toggles. Keyboards seem to be
different in the number of buttons that can be pressed simultaneously.
> Well, it's sad that you gave it a shot and didn't like it.
I don`t say that I don`t like it. It`s just some things that I don`t
like or that I think could be improved. But naming such things mott is
responded to like everything was perfect as it is.
If I just won`t like it, I won`t make such a fuss about it.
===
Harry Seldon:
> What is this guy's license levels?
License levels only tell you about how long someone has been
playing. Current levels is 5/7/6/10/5.
> Assuming this is the case....do the tutorial.
The tutorial missions were not available when I started playing. They
became available the next day or so, but I didn`t want to try them
immediately at that time. Later I tried one, but I aborted it because
something else was coming up and wanted to try again later. But
shortly after, they became unavailable again.
===
Incarnate:
> And surprised that someone could get that far without learning the
> game fundamentals.
You can do that with some persistence and all the help you get from
other players.
> I'm sure the game *is* really frustrating, if you've never learned
> how to play it.
Hence my suggestion about some better way to learn, like having a
system or sector where players will respawn immediately in their last
ship when they die, or introducing practise weapons that do no or very
little damage, but count the hits. Ships and weapons there would be
provided free of charge and free of licenses --- consider it as a kind
of flight simulator. I`ve very much been whishing for something like
that!
The way it is, every death adds to your account, makes you loose money
for a new ship and requires you to fly around for a relatively long
amount of time (compared to how long a fight lasts) to get back to the
battlefield. It`s just not much fun to do that. You do it once, die
immediately and then avoid it.
My impression is that new players in particular don`t want to learn it
that way: They don`t have much money, don`t have the better ships and
don`t last long in combat. They are already busy with learning about
other things in the game. But if they could click on a button and
enter the `flight simulator`, they would do that.
===
FatStrat85:
> He refused to use auto-aim becuase he said his aim was too awesome
> from the other games he played to allow a computer to mess with
> it. He refused to use the leadoff indicator because he claimed his
> perception of relative motion was much more accurate than that of
> the computer's (yet he complained that he wanted a motion indicator
> added to the HUD...).
That`s not true. I was only saying that my experience with
autotargeting in other games tended to make things worse and that I
couldn`t tell how it`s in VO. I tried it out and found that turning if
off greatly decreased the hit rate; so I left it turned on.
> He also changed all the key binds around, which may have severely
> impared his ability to effectively strafe.
For one thing, settings from the beta were still in ~/.vendetta, and
they were used (whatever effect that had).
For another thing, I`m playing with a trackball in the left hand and
was never able to use a default like `wasdf` (or what it is). I
changed that already when I was playing for the first time a game that
used such a default --- if I recall it right, that must have been the
first version of Unreal, 10 years or so ago. Since that, I`m used to
use Ins, Home, PgUp, Del, End and PgDown for movement --- which is not
enough keys for VO because you don`t have any keys there for rolling.
To have more keys available, I first tried to use the numpad. I found
out that pressing more then 3 keys doesn`t work and started to make
toggles for rolling/sliding. But that didn`t work very well either,
and I switched back to using Ins etc.. Besides that, I have some
toggles on the numpad from 1--9, turbo on ctrl and brake on KP_0 and
backspace. I`m still missing decent keys for targeting ...
I tried out a joystick and found out that I`m forced to use it with
the left hand, though I have been using the joystick with the right
hand before I switched to trackballs. Imagine that, or better, try it
out. The joystick seems to have advantages when fighting a single
opponent, but it turned out horribly when fighting several at
once. Flying that way in combat in VO demands multitasking and is
quite exhausting.
So please try a setup like this before you blame me of having changed
the key bindings. Any suggestions how to improve them are welcome ---
I just didn`t have any better idea yet.
> This is a case of someone who is unwilling to take any advice
> because he thinks he already knows everything there is to know about
> space gaming. He felt that any problems he had were the fault of the
> game and not of himself.
That`s also not true. I`m only hard to convince that I should do
something that turns out not to work when I do it. You also cannot
deny the fact that any ship in the game will explode after only a few
hits. That is not a question of skill but of how the ships are made.
I am preoccupied because I`m used to games where ships have shields,
and I still think it would be good to have such ships in VO because
that would give players more options to choose from.
> It's funny that a noob with no past gaming experience probably would
> have been able to easily destroy yun after a week of practice.
It would take him two or three days, not even a week.
===
drdoak007:
> and was this person in a guild? or groups?
yes
> did they even leave nation space? or nation home systems even?
yes
> do we really care that a person that never really stood out from the
> crowd of npc's is leaving, and furthermore,
Apparently you do, and it`s nice that you do so.
> why this person's thread title is so freaking long?!? next
> time... CHOOSE A TITLE!
The title is long because it`s an URL which refers to the origin of
this thread which lies within another one the URL refers to. I`m not
happy with that, and this thread even doesn`t actually fit under
`Suggestions` --- but I placed it here so that those who may concern
may find it.
===
SuperMegaMynt:
> Because of this method of combat, there are many situations where
> you can't always shoot an opponent, and dodge his shots at the same
> time. There are situations where having extra armour is useful,
> because if you can force yourself into these kinds of combat, the
> bigger ship will likely be the one still flying at the end of it.
That is why I prefer heavier ships, and preferably with
shields. Sitting in a tin coffin without shields that inevitably takes
hull(!) damage due to a lack of shields scares me to hell, especially
when even the heaviest ship lasts only about 2 or 3 seconds when under
fire.
I do not say that everyone should sit in utterly heavy ships with
impenetrable shields. But I vote for ships with shields as an option
to choose from for those who prefer a different way of fighting or
want to try it out. To make up for the shields, these ships would have
to be limited in other features, like having less armor, less
maneuvreability, more weight, higher energy consumption or a
combination thereof, or whatever.
> (And knowing his determination to sway the arguement to his favor, I
> wouldn't be surprised if the bots he was referring to were Valent
> Assaults against him in an EC-89, or something to that effect.)
To name something in particular, think of the escort of a Queen, being
fought against to no avail in Vultures, Hornets, Rags, Centurions and
Centaurs. To get the escort down appears to be considered as "a pretty
easy and basic skill in VO, usually requiring only a few weeks or less
of practice"[1] --- if an escort is considered to consist of "several
of the hardest bots"[2] (which I can`t tell).
I was `stubborn` enough to try it and `determined` enough to try
different ways, still I can`t do it. And I do not blame the game for
it since it may mean forcing the "ridiculous disadvantages" upon me
(which I can`t tell, though not a few players claim to be able to do
it).
> So, the point is, there's a ship and place for everyone,
That`s an assumption not necessarily true.
> No amount of skill can bend the rules of the game, but that doesn't
> mean that if you can't accomplish something, it's not your lack of
> skill.
It also doesn`t mean that it were your lack of skill. It may as well
be the rules of the game.
Since you clearly see that players may have a preference for one way
of fighting or another, for one type of ship or another, please think
a step further and just allow the assumption that there is not a ship
for everyone (because of the rules of the game). To what conclusion
would that lead you to?
That the game is not for everyone? Heh, don`t be that stubborn.
[1]: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/13242?page=5#194245
[2]: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/13242?page=5#194245
wow yun, long post. I didn't quite read it all but skimmed what I didn't fully read.
/** "They actually are, to some extend. Pressing more than three buttons at once doesn`t work, so I had to make some toggles. Keyboards seem to be different in the number of buttons that can be pressed simultaneously." **/
Consider buying a better keyboard, or better yet a joystick. I would suggest the Saitek Cyborg Evo (on sale on their website for $29.95, http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/cyborg_evo.htm). If you still have troubles with VO you can use it for other games in the future.
/** "I don`t say that I don`t like it. It`s just some things that I don`t like or that I think could be improved. But naming such things mott is responded to like everything was perfect as it is." **/
The game is updated every week or so with new features/content. Check the news section for details (http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html). Maybe what you're looking for will be available before your 3 month subscription is up :)
/** "The tutorial missions were not available when I started playing. They became available the next day or so, but I didn`t want to try them immediately at that time. Later I tried one, but I aborted it because something else was coming up and wanted to try again later. But shortly after, they became unavailable again." **/
You can turn the tutorial missions on again by going to the Options->Interface screen and checking the "Run Tutorial On Next Station Dock". Or, even easier, just start another character and do the tutorial missions. You can go back to your original character after you finish ;)
/** "Hence my suggestion about some better way to learn, like having a system or sector where players will respawn immediately in their last ship when they die, or introducing practise weapons that do no or very little damage, but count the hits. Ships and weapons there would be provided free of charge and free of licenses --- consider it as a kind of flight simulator. I`ve very much been whishing for something like that!" **/
I like this respawn sector idea :) And there are already weapons like you asked for. The training gun does 1 damage per hit. It's too bad training guns are so hard to get ahold of :(
/** "That`s also not true. I`m only hard to convince that I should do something that turns out not to work when I do it. You also cannot deny the fact that any ship in the game will explode after only a few hits. That is not a question of skill but of how the ships are made." **/
If you had access to a super strong ship and shields so would everyone else, thus you would still get killed with easy by the people that do such things now.
/** "To name something in particular, think of the escort of a Queen..... I was `stubborn` enough to try it and `determined` enough to try different ways, still I can`t do it. And I do not blame the game for it since it may mean forcing the "ridiculous disadvantages" upon me (which I can`t tell, though not a few players claim to be able to do it)." **/
I can attest that it is a fairly easy task. /me has 52 queen kills :)
Final note: Thanks for the cargo delivaries yun ;)
/** "They actually are, to some extend. Pressing more than three buttons at once doesn`t work, so I had to make some toggles. Keyboards seem to be different in the number of buttons that can be pressed simultaneously." **/
Consider buying a better keyboard, or better yet a joystick. I would suggest the Saitek Cyborg Evo (on sale on their website for $29.95, http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/cyborg_evo.htm). If you still have troubles with VO you can use it for other games in the future.
/** "I don`t say that I don`t like it. It`s just some things that I don`t like or that I think could be improved. But naming such things mott is responded to like everything was perfect as it is." **/
The game is updated every week or so with new features/content. Check the news section for details (http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/news.html). Maybe what you're looking for will be available before your 3 month subscription is up :)
/** "The tutorial missions were not available when I started playing. They became available the next day or so, but I didn`t want to try them immediately at that time. Later I tried one, but I aborted it because something else was coming up and wanted to try again later. But shortly after, they became unavailable again." **/
You can turn the tutorial missions on again by going to the Options->Interface screen and checking the "Run Tutorial On Next Station Dock". Or, even easier, just start another character and do the tutorial missions. You can go back to your original character after you finish ;)
/** "Hence my suggestion about some better way to learn, like having a system or sector where players will respawn immediately in their last ship when they die, or introducing practise weapons that do no or very little damage, but count the hits. Ships and weapons there would be provided free of charge and free of licenses --- consider it as a kind of flight simulator. I`ve very much been whishing for something like that!" **/
I like this respawn sector idea :) And there are already weapons like you asked for. The training gun does 1 damage per hit. It's too bad training guns are so hard to get ahold of :(
/** "That`s also not true. I`m only hard to convince that I should do something that turns out not to work when I do it. You also cannot deny the fact that any ship in the game will explode after only a few hits. That is not a question of skill but of how the ships are made." **/
If you had access to a super strong ship and shields so would everyone else, thus you would still get killed with easy by the people that do such things now.
/** "To name something in particular, think of the escort of a Queen..... I was `stubborn` enough to try it and `determined` enough to try different ways, still I can`t do it. And I do not blame the game for it since it may mean forcing the "ridiculous disadvantages" upon me (which I can`t tell, though not a few players claim to be able to do it)." **/
I can attest that it is a fairly easy task. /me has 52 queen kills :)
Final note: Thanks for the cargo delivaries yun ;)
All I can say is that this is either a troll or the least hand eye coordinated person ever. Seriously, it takes work to get pwned by bots in this game. The queen group I could see eating up a n00blet like this guy, sure: they do all attack at once. The others, though, are not swarmers like that. They come one, two or maybe three at a time. Very easy to keep in front of you (someone did tell this guy how to turn FA off, right?)...
Either way, I'm pretty sure there's not a tutorial mission on Earth that could save this one. Write 'em off, send 'em to EVE.
Either way, I'm pretty sure there's not a tutorial mission on Earth that could save this one. Write 'em off, send 'em to EVE.
Since you clearly see that players may have a preference for one way
of fighting or another, for one type of ship or another, please think
a step further and just allow the assumption that there is not a ship
for everyone (because of the rules of the game). To what conclusion
would that lead you to?
That the game is not for everyone? Heh, don`t be that stubborn.
The game is an extension, more a shadow, of life, and in life there is a time and place for everyone. Along with determination, and stubborness, there lies a third path, hope. Hope against logical limits is useless, and stubborness without victory is equally futile. Determination is the balanced path, but without hope one loses sight of one's goals, and without stubborness one more easily strays from the intentional path. I tell you this, because I can see that you're capable of juggling this sort of, not logic, but thought.
> No amount of skill can bend the rules of the game, but that doesn't
> mean that if you can't accomplish something, it's not your lack of
> skill.
It also doesn`t mean that it were your lack of skill. It may as well
be the rules of the game.
Which is why by learning the rules of the game to an extreme understanding you can always best your computer opponent. But, you will need acess to the best equipment. Mind you, there's often a surprisingly small number of people who can effectively fight with this mindset.
My conclusion led me that although there's a ship type for everyone, as one plays and experiences the game that magical ship for you can swap often, even midflight. Every time I try to fight a Prometheus with my IBG for example, I despair at the thought of it's incredible armour, and at that moment my attitude ships, and my favored ship becomes the Ragnorak with rockets. When they doesn't work, I think to myself that if I just had a Prometheus I could best my opponent, and then the Prometheus becomes the ship for me. Obviously you can't purchase Helmen K-3's, but you can take advantage of the bot's programming to catch it in logic loops where you have the advantage. When you can complete Border Patrol without taking a hit, you'll have mastered this. In the meantime, we can only *hope* that the Devs do their best to make this game fair, and thus far I am supremely impressed.
of fighting or another, for one type of ship or another, please think
a step further and just allow the assumption that there is not a ship
for everyone (because of the rules of the game). To what conclusion
would that lead you to?
That the game is not for everyone? Heh, don`t be that stubborn.
The game is an extension, more a shadow, of life, and in life there is a time and place for everyone. Along with determination, and stubborness, there lies a third path, hope. Hope against logical limits is useless, and stubborness without victory is equally futile. Determination is the balanced path, but without hope one loses sight of one's goals, and without stubborness one more easily strays from the intentional path. I tell you this, because I can see that you're capable of juggling this sort of, not logic, but thought.
> No amount of skill can bend the rules of the game, but that doesn't
> mean that if you can't accomplish something, it's not your lack of
> skill.
It also doesn`t mean that it were your lack of skill. It may as well
be the rules of the game.
Which is why by learning the rules of the game to an extreme understanding you can always best your computer opponent. But, you will need acess to the best equipment. Mind you, there's often a surprisingly small number of people who can effectively fight with this mindset.
My conclusion led me that although there's a ship type for everyone, as one plays and experiences the game that magical ship for you can swap often, even midflight. Every time I try to fight a Prometheus with my IBG for example, I despair at the thought of it's incredible armour, and at that moment my attitude ships, and my favored ship becomes the Ragnorak with rockets. When they doesn't work, I think to myself that if I just had a Prometheus I could best my opponent, and then the Prometheus becomes the ship for me. Obviously you can't purchase Helmen K-3's, but you can take advantage of the bot's programming to catch it in logic loops where you have the advantage. When you can complete Border Patrol without taking a hit, you'll have mastered this. In the meantime, we can only *hope* that the Devs do their best to make this game fair, and thus far I am supremely impressed.
This isn't Luke using the force, this is bot popping for ****'s sakes.
Use the shwarts Luke!
Yun, let's make this really simple: almost everyone else can do it.
And, while the most immediate and apparent conclusion often is wrong, it usually gives some hint as to what the problem is. Any ideas?
Like I told you in the other thread: ask any long-time player (and most of the newbies), and they can show you that it is possible to:
1) Survive battles with scores of bots
2) Have PvP fights that lasts for minutes
3) Dodge everything from incoming ordinance to ion storm particles
Have you done this yet? If you are so sure of your conclusions, you can at least test the validity of your opinions through practical application.
We know that what you say is wrong, because we have *experienced* otherwise. Again, are you calling us liars, or victims of a system-wide hallucination?
And, while the most immediate and apparent conclusion often is wrong, it usually gives some hint as to what the problem is. Any ideas?
Like I told you in the other thread: ask any long-time player (and most of the newbies), and they can show you that it is possible to:
1) Survive battles with scores of bots
2) Have PvP fights that lasts for minutes
3) Dodge everything from incoming ordinance to ion storm particles
Have you done this yet? If you are so sure of your conclusions, you can at least test the validity of your opinions through practical application.
We know that what you say is wrong, because we have *experienced* otherwise. Again, are you calling us liars, or victims of a system-wide hallucination?
So does yun really believe that no one can go more than a few bots before having to repair? Because back in the days I was grinding levels, it was NOT hard to go in excess of 15 minutes before having to repair. While I didn't time myself, I know it's possible to grind indefinitely, especially at lower levels.
All you gotta do is hold your 'strafe right' key and tap Flight Assist off.
el oh el.
All you gotta do is hold your 'strafe right' key and tap Flight Assist off.
el oh el.
"All you gotta do is hold your 'strafe right' key and tap Flight Assist off."
And this is also almost the only tactic needed for the "20bots attacking at once" Missions ;)
And this is also almost the only tactic needed for the "20bots attacking at once" Missions ;)