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/me luvs when good ol' Doc tortures himself, he sure does have a certain talent fer it : ]
Lecter: Non-binding ballpark, the development itself could probably be done in a couple of weeks if we had a minimum of other distractions (like companies saying, "we're launching Zany Product in a month! We will give you this box of money if you make your game work with Zany Product!" We've had a whole series of those, which have been great for us financially and not so great developmentally).
Most of the basic underpinnings are there, but some of them haven't been used extensively (persistent NPCs, beyond Marshals and a few other cases), and some would depend on how we went about it (might be a little easier/faster to hack a normal station that magically re-locates every so often, rather than a capship-station.. but the latter would be more useful development for the future; tradeoffs like that, in any case, regardless of that example).
So, based on the couple-weeks estimate.. if we prioritized this, it could possibly happen this summer? But that's entirely distraction-dependent. And I would be kind of a crappy CEO if I spent the time on pure game improvements at the expense of financial stability for my current employees and/or hiring future employees (I would prefer to juggle enough to do both, I'm not unaware of my responsibilities to my customers too.. but they don't lose their houses if I screw up).
Plus, one would have to consider whether this would really make for a more useful game addition than improvements and expansions and streamlining to player-owned capships (including making them easier to acquire) that could happen in the same timeframe (or Factional or other changes, if capships aren't your thing). The station itself would be cool, but I don't have a lot of "black market" items to place in it, right now, or much of a complete mechanic to power that gameplay. The full array of "added stuff" to make a pirate station truly awesome would go well beyond the base mechanics outlined above, and the related time estimate. Player cap expansions, or other things, might give people more individual fun-per-development-hour.
Most of the basic underpinnings are there, but some of them haven't been used extensively (persistent NPCs, beyond Marshals and a few other cases), and some would depend on how we went about it (might be a little easier/faster to hack a normal station that magically re-locates every so often, rather than a capship-station.. but the latter would be more useful development for the future; tradeoffs like that, in any case, regardless of that example).
So, based on the couple-weeks estimate.. if we prioritized this, it could possibly happen this summer? But that's entirely distraction-dependent. And I would be kind of a crappy CEO if I spent the time on pure game improvements at the expense of financial stability for my current employees and/or hiring future employees (I would prefer to juggle enough to do both, I'm not unaware of my responsibilities to my customers too.. but they don't lose their houses if I screw up).
Plus, one would have to consider whether this would really make for a more useful game addition than improvements and expansions and streamlining to player-owned capships (including making them easier to acquire) that could happen in the same timeframe (or Factional or other changes, if capships aren't your thing). The station itself would be cool, but I don't have a lot of "black market" items to place in it, right now, or much of a complete mechanic to power that gameplay. The full array of "added stuff" to make a pirate station truly awesome would go well beyond the base mechanics outlined above, and the related time estimate. Player cap expansions, or other things, might give people more individual fun-per-development-hour.
I really like the idea of a pirate faction homed in a unique capship... where pirates, mercs, trolls, smugglers, fugitives, spies, rogue drones, headhunters and other types share after their dirty work... even if they hate each other...
where the lazy guards can be convinced to attack anyone for the proper amount... or to look in the other direction...
where all stuff forbidden elsewhere are avidly purchased and sold...
impossible to find, unless you toss many credits around in Corvus, who keeps stating to have no relations with them...
Back in that approach of Owner/User keys, give an owner key to every Guild and baddie that accepts to join new faction, and a user key to who reaches it from Corvus, so they have limited priviledges there.
And certainly in that scenario, the next step is to improve capship-as-a-station, so individuals and Guilds can use it as a sub-faction, i.e., trading and offering missions, and control who can dock and operate the ship/station (key system)... Single-use keys seems promissing.
where the lazy guards can be convinced to attack anyone for the proper amount... or to look in the other direction...
where all stuff forbidden elsewhere are avidly purchased and sold...
impossible to find, unless you toss many credits around in Corvus, who keeps stating to have no relations with them...
Back in that approach of Owner/User keys, give an owner key to every Guild and baddie that accepts to join new faction, and a user key to who reaches it from Corvus, so they have limited priviledges there.
And certainly in that scenario, the next step is to improve capship-as-a-station, so individuals and Guilds can use it as a sub-faction, i.e., trading and offering missions, and control who can dock and operate the ship/station (key system)... Single-use keys seems promissing.
Sounds to me like the rats need to decide if they want a cappie or a station for thier base and if it should move. (when and why it moves may also be usefull)
I do think the grey hats can trade at corvus or deal with a player pirate - my opinion of course.
I do think the grey hats can trade at corvus or deal with a player pirate - my opinion of course.
Pirates don't need cappies, it's dull and uneffective. Leave them for nationalists.
We need:
+ unaligned pirate station for KOS players, with hidden entrance and fog like in Latos M-7 (but not so huge station)
-- Free repairs
-- cargo scanner, ships for sale (e.g. hogs, vulture, maud, moth, maybe even centurion superlight).
-- 1-2 unique missions. E.g. kill x amount of moths and y amount of taurs + mission to become bounty hunter.
-- a special corsair badge? (read Ryan's post before)
We need:
+ unaligned pirate station for KOS players, with hidden entrance and fog like in Latos M-7 (but not so huge station)
-- Free repairs
-- cargo scanner, ships for sale (e.g. hogs, vulture, maud, moth, maybe even centurion superlight).
-- 1-2 unique missions. E.g. kill x amount of moths and y amount of taurs + mission to become bounty hunter.
-- a special corsair badge? (read Ryan's post before)
Pirren, we're talking on a special case, Capship-As-a-Station... or, if you prefer, a relocatable station...
Hmm, a mobile capship based pirate station ? Would this actually involve some rats logging in and making a capship ? Taking a station or three , collecting hive drops , fetching goods?
Or is this just another " Wah , we want what the traders have but we can't be bothered putting any effort into it all " type threads?
Ok, give them one Inc , but call it trident type W, for whinge ...
Oh , and since Dr L is so keen on these things , make it and all its contents destroyable ....
Or is this just another " Wah , we want what the traders have but we can't be bothered putting any effort into it all " type threads?
Ok, give them one Inc , but call it trident type W, for whinge ...
Oh , and since Dr L is so keen on these things , make it and all its contents destroyable ....
Ecka's post was incredibly helpful and on topic... it makes me wonder if the self important sanctimonious half wit actually read anything before posting.
At any rate, whether it's a mobile station or a massive unique cappie it's a good idea and hopefully they can get to it sooner rather than later. The tie in to Corvus is fine but not necessary, does it really need a faction? After all, its for pirates of all races. As long as a pilot has one to three of the main nations at a standing of KoS, the pilot is welcome.
Perhaps this would be a good reason for the Devs to dig out some of the unused art assets they have? Mobile station or unique cappie should be... well, unique. maybe even have some unique ships.
At any rate, whether it's a mobile station or a massive unique cappie it's a good idea and hopefully they can get to it sooner rather than later. The tie in to Corvus is fine but not necessary, does it really need a faction? After all, its for pirates of all races. As long as a pilot has one to three of the main nations at a standing of KoS, the pilot is welcome.
Perhaps this would be a good reason for the Devs to dig out some of the unused art assets they have? Mobile station or unique cappie should be... well, unique. maybe even have some unique ships.
Miss Ecka, could you be so kind and read thread before posting offtopic? Roleplay forum ftw!
Perhaps this would be a good reason for the Devs to dig out some of the unused art assets they have?
Sounds awesome!
Actually they have some unused art already in 'verse. For example, abandoned station in Sedina.
Perhaps this would be a good reason for the Devs to dig out some of the unused art assets they have?
Sounds awesome!
Actually they have some unused art already in 'verse. For example, abandoned station in Sedina.
One thing Ecka brings up though, that I was wondering about as well, is if Inc goes with a capship rather than a station, what happens when somebody inevitably destroys it? Would it just respawn in a week? Would it need to have players run through a bunch of missions helping the NPC pirates who owned it to construct and launch a new one?
Ecka: Put on your reading glasses. Despite Alloh's babble about keys, this is not about player-owned features. It's about a station or station-styled ship owned by overtly pirate NPCs, as opposed to the more mafia-esque Corvus. It would not attack anybody unless they stumbled into its sector. (Though it would eventually, I hope, send NPC pirates out into the universe to loot and plunder.)
If you think there is some imbalance in that, by all means suggest a special TPG Caravan-Connie that wanders the verse peddling its wares to anybody who docks - or even a whole Space-Gypsy Faction. I would support those ideas as well.
As for me, I think it should be handled (in part) by creating a faction which is a pirate faction. Just "A" pirate faction, mind you, not "The" pirate faction. In other words, a faction which happens to be pirates, with no implication that they are the only pirates. This is not Alloh's idiotic outlaw-bucket punishment-faction nonsense. It would just be yet-another-faction, but perhaps requiring more nefarious deeds to be liked. Just because a person is a pirate would not mean they are associated with them, but being associated with them would imply that the person is at least shady if not a pirate himself, due to dirty deeds being the only way to gain faction with them. Faction should also gradually decrease to middle-disliked over time, so that one must reaffirm their alignment and not just go on a brief murder binge and then be considered a member for life. And of course, killing NPCs of this faction should harm your standing as well, though they'd overlook the killing of players the same way Corvus does. Just not the killing of their NPCs - presuming of course that said killing is done in their station-space.
Also, beyond requiring dirty deeds to build faction, they would still have the one-national-KoS requirement to be able to dock with them, and could possibly send the station guards (but not aernas) after any ship which enters their space and is not at Respected or higher. Such ships could still dock, if they could make it in.
I think this would allow for most of the sorts of things the people in this thread want, and would leave the door open for additional competing pirate factions at a later date (when the universe and playerbase are larger).
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But yeah, I'd rather see the devs focus on finishing cappies for now, and then adding a few features to conq stations, fixing the faction system, etc. Fix what we've got, then add more. (I will consider conq-stations unfinished until the owners can populate the shop with their own items.)
Ecka: Put on your reading glasses. Despite Alloh's babble about keys, this is not about player-owned features. It's about a station or station-styled ship owned by overtly pirate NPCs, as opposed to the more mafia-esque Corvus. It would not attack anybody unless they stumbled into its sector. (Though it would eventually, I hope, send NPC pirates out into the universe to loot and plunder.)
If you think there is some imbalance in that, by all means suggest a special TPG Caravan-Connie that wanders the verse peddling its wares to anybody who docks - or even a whole Space-Gypsy Faction. I would support those ideas as well.
As for me, I think it should be handled (in part) by creating a faction which is a pirate faction. Just "A" pirate faction, mind you, not "The" pirate faction. In other words, a faction which happens to be pirates, with no implication that they are the only pirates. This is not Alloh's idiotic outlaw-bucket punishment-faction nonsense. It would just be yet-another-faction, but perhaps requiring more nefarious deeds to be liked. Just because a person is a pirate would not mean they are associated with them, but being associated with them would imply that the person is at least shady if not a pirate himself, due to dirty deeds being the only way to gain faction with them. Faction should also gradually decrease to middle-disliked over time, so that one must reaffirm their alignment and not just go on a brief murder binge and then be considered a member for life. And of course, killing NPCs of this faction should harm your standing as well, though they'd overlook the killing of players the same way Corvus does. Just not the killing of their NPCs - presuming of course that said killing is done in their station-space.
Also, beyond requiring dirty deeds to build faction, they would still have the one-national-KoS requirement to be able to dock with them, and could possibly send the station guards (but not aernas) after any ship which enters their space and is not at Respected or higher. Such ships could still dock, if they could make it in.
I think this would allow for most of the sorts of things the people in this thread want, and would leave the door open for additional competing pirate factions at a later date (when the universe and playerbase are larger).
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But yeah, I'd rather see the devs focus on finishing cappies for now, and then adding a few features to conq stations, fixing the faction system, etc. Fix what we've got, then add more. (I will consider conq-stations unfinished until the owners can populate the shop with their own items.)
This idea sounds like mining for "pirates."
@ Rin.. I agree that fixing the stuff already in production right now should be a priority to adding new stuff. Conquerable stations where players can actually put shit on sale is an excellent idea. If more (working) conquerable stations were added, then pirates could more easily claim one as their own and use it to sell ill gotten goods, eliminating the need for all the work of adding a new faction (although I do like the idea of unrats coming back and actually having a base).
I would not expect the pirate station/capship to be destroyable, at least not unless and until conquerable stations and perhaps even regular stations are also destroyable. At least, that's my vote anyway.
Calling it a 'capship', in my view, is just a way to explain how it moves to different sectors periodically. I also would not expect players to be able to pilot it like a capship (although being able to man turrets would be kind of neat).
Calling it a 'capship', in my view, is just a way to explain how it moves to different sectors periodically. I also would not expect players to be able to pilot it like a capship (although being able to man turrets would be kind of neat).
@pizza: Pirate "nation" is not really a punishment. It is just making the engine reflect what already happens, or "fix IFF". Banned pirates remain exactly as now, probably even better.
One crazy idea, but feasible RP-wise, is that pirates, or Corvus, manage to recover the Ark, or one of those massive UIT spaceships used for leaving Terra2/Serco Prime... then started using it as their capital. Better explanation than a small group build the largest ship active in universe out of nowhere.
Name, make unaligned remain reserved for the Hive. Make pirate faction become "unknown" or "unidentified". Then make that new faction's mobile capital purchase "liberated cargo" with higher prices. and offer "gray" missions. as contraband, intercept convoys, etc...
One crazy idea, but feasible RP-wise, is that pirates, or Corvus, manage to recover the Ark, or one of those massive UIT spaceships used for leaving Terra2/Serco Prime... then started using it as their capital. Better explanation than a small group build the largest ship active in universe out of nowhere.
Name, make unaligned remain reserved for the Hive. Make pirate faction become "unknown" or "unidentified". Then make that new faction's mobile capital purchase "liberated cargo" with higher prices. and offer "gray" missions. as contraband, intercept convoys, etc...
Pirate nation is not really a punishment.
Nation? Pirate? WTF?
Nation? Pirate? WTF?
"One crazy idea, but feasible RP-wise, is that pirates, or Corvus, manage to recover the Ark, or one of those massive UIT spaceships used for leaving Terra2/Serco Prime... then started using it as their capital. Better explanation than a small group build the largest ship active in universe out of nowhere."
That's actually not a horrendous idea. +1
That's actually not a horrendous idea. +1
the ark idea does make sense for rp.... +1
I like it, good idea.
Alloh, the faction system is not supposed to reflect what you do. It is supposed to show who likes you and who does not. Consider this: If I create a new character and trade a lot, should I automatically be considered TPG? No. The only way trading would have any impact on my TPG standing is if I traded with them. Piracy is the same. Let's pretend there were a pirate faction named "Morgan's Rebellion". If I pirate UIT people, I will hurt my UIT standing. I will not automatically build my "Morgan's Rebellion" standing by pirating UIT, unless I do it on behalf of Captain Morgan, or unless Captain Morgan really dislikes the UIT (as opposed to simply viewing them as prey).
Furthermore, it would make no sense for the game to say, "Rin, you pirated some UIT, so now you are going to be thrown into Morgan's Rebellion." Why would it put me into that faction? Why wouldn't it put me into "Paul's Plunder" or "Ridley's Raiders"? How does it know that I'm a general pirate and that I haven't become an Itani privateer who is only pirating Serco and UIT who help the Serco?
One of the problems with your thinking is that the game shouldn't be deciding which faction to put me into. That should be my decision. The faction I choose would have the option to reject me, and to kick me out later if I cross them. But which one to join - or whether I join any - should be up to me and me alone. Also, I'm going to say this yet again: Unaligned != bad. Unaligned says nothing about goodness/badness. It merely says that you don't consider yourself to belong to any particular group. PA should be considered unaligned, for example. They belong to themselves. (Really, they should be considered PA - guilds should be mini player-run factions in their own rights.)
Alloh, the faction system is not supposed to reflect what you do. It is supposed to show who likes you and who does not. Consider this: If I create a new character and trade a lot, should I automatically be considered TPG? No. The only way trading would have any impact on my TPG standing is if I traded with them. Piracy is the same. Let's pretend there were a pirate faction named "Morgan's Rebellion". If I pirate UIT people, I will hurt my UIT standing. I will not automatically build my "Morgan's Rebellion" standing by pirating UIT, unless I do it on behalf of Captain Morgan, or unless Captain Morgan really dislikes the UIT (as opposed to simply viewing them as prey).
Furthermore, it would make no sense for the game to say, "Rin, you pirated some UIT, so now you are going to be thrown into Morgan's Rebellion." Why would it put me into that faction? Why wouldn't it put me into "Paul's Plunder" or "Ridley's Raiders"? How does it know that I'm a general pirate and that I haven't become an Itani privateer who is only pirating Serco and UIT who help the Serco?
One of the problems with your thinking is that the game shouldn't be deciding which faction to put me into. That should be my decision. The faction I choose would have the option to reject me, and to kick me out later if I cross them. But which one to join - or whether I join any - should be up to me and me alone. Also, I'm going to say this yet again: Unaligned != bad. Unaligned says nothing about goodness/badness. It merely says that you don't consider yourself to belong to any particular group. PA should be considered unaligned, for example. They belong to themselves. (Really, they should be considered PA - guilds should be mini player-run factions in their own rights.)
I think Rin hit the nail on the head precisely. Under Alloh's rules myself and half my guild would be relegated to the "outlaw" faction for the wholesale slaughter of smurfs.
Not really... as I allways said, the limit is KoS from native nation. Other citizens does not enforce ban. But predating your fellow citizens, particularlly inside that same nation's territory. When a UIT citizen hunts other UIT pilots (players+NPC) inside UIT territory, more than once, he loses his "citizenship" as UIT, and become "Faction: Unknown". (Unaligned is the Hive and Devs!)
Note that I also prefer a new type of faction, almost like Corvus became. Everyone 3KoS respawns at Corvus, AFAIK. That would be the same for Native KoS... they respawn in "The Ark", without his native faction "rights". Anyone targetting him no longer reads "UIT", but "Unknown". Maybe someone ends up like that after 3 accidents...
Also must be the elective way, i.e., you go to Corvus, get a boarding pass for "The Ark" and once docked there you request to become member, or more precisely, you renounce your citizenship, and become "unknown" or whatever name we choose.
Finally, Guilds must become mini-factions in near future. With one elective alignment for Guild (Itan is Itani, CHRN is none), and collective standing for its members sum up to personal standing. Example: a 3PoS joins THC. Next he visits UIT: (PoS + KoS) = neutral... but that goes later...
Note that I also prefer a new type of faction, almost like Corvus became. Everyone 3KoS respawns at Corvus, AFAIK. That would be the same for Native KoS... they respawn in "The Ark", without his native faction "rights". Anyone targetting him no longer reads "UIT", but "Unknown". Maybe someone ends up like that after 3 accidents...
Also must be the elective way, i.e., you go to Corvus, get a boarding pass for "The Ark" and once docked there you request to become member, or more precisely, you renounce your citizenship, and become "unknown" or whatever name we choose.
Finally, Guilds must become mini-factions in near future. With one elective alignment for Guild (Itan is Itani, CHRN is none), and collective standing for its members sum up to personal standing. Example: a 3PoS joins THC. Next he visits UIT: (PoS + KoS) = neutral... but that goes later...