I'm still pretty new here, although I'm starting to get the hang of the game. I've noticed a lot of chat online about pirates and how dishonorable they are, that they attack without warning, go after newbies, etc. I've never pirated - I don't even have any PKs. But sheesh - it's a space trading game. If there were no player pirates, then the devs would have to make npc ones. Otherwise, what's the point?

It's no fun to play a game with no challenge. And I know that the first response to this is going to be something like, "I don't mind pirates but they should at least give a warning and say, 'Give me your money or I'll blow you up.'" Well, that's a very polite pirate, maybe he (or she) would even say please. But what fun is a game where everything is scripted and everything is easy? Going from port to port and just trying to make money - why even have weapons in the game? If you want pure trading, I'm sure there are stock market games out there to play. But space is dangerous. Especially grey space.

I like the fact that there are pirates, and that I can arm myself to the teeth to try and fight them back or get myself a speedy ship and try to outrun them from system to system. If I'm close to their space, I can even go off course and jump into their faction space to try and keep them from following and pirating me there.

In conclusion, space is dangerous. There are pirates out there. It's par for the course. No one said that trading between warring factions in unprotected space would be simple.

some people consider pirating to be a unnecesary consequence of people willing to feel great to compensate for less greatness in real life (aka I OwnOrz your BoXoRz, I'm so 1337 etc...). Especially since your possibly making the game less fun for the person who hasn't got the time or 'want' to play the game so actively that they can recover easilly from a cargoloss set back (not only the 4+ hours a day playing people want fun, also the 1 hour people playing a day). And when you then encounter pirates and get blasted every day because your ship doesn't stand a chance against their supreme pirateships, then you are severely wondering why you are being a paying customer to endure nothing but hinder to your own experiences of having fun.

Not to mention that some people consider the most important part of the game not the pirating but the having fun with people on the internet. Meaning that if I can waste some cash on unnecessarily running around and killing people, you should do that with likeminded people. Aka form groups to combat another group, have duels etc... And these skirmishes should happen in this grey space. At least untill some real content gets added that might prove to give a reason for these pirates, like a piratebase is located over there, anybody in there be warned you are in serious danger and are advised to not venture there on your own. Not to mention that normally these NPC pirates should be in and that real pirates should be able to allign themselves with these guys. And only then I would acknowledge piracy to be a part of the game. And make some specialised ships that beat at least the cargopotential of the ships that are able to fend for themselves (example: marauder is a kickass ship and still got more cargo as even the biggest trader that is considered to be and always has been the coffin 'but im flogging a dead horse on this one').

And I would like to direct myself towards GW (guildwars) for this. Only in certain pvp arenas you can have pvp while the other ones are just pve inclined. Naturally the biggest 'short term' rewards (aka new skills) come from pvp, but you don't get disturbed if you are only a pve player. Which is in my opinion the best option available. And which I would like to see in vendetta. Since it would cater to everybodies needs.

cheers

I would just like to point out to rene without starting a flame war, that those who get heavily involved in PVP are the ones most likely to stick around, whether it be forced (like back when i was a noob, did it put me off?), or consentual (the only time anyones got bragging rights).

See, the thing is, I spend a heck of a lot of time ingame, and i have not seen any of this *i roxor you boxors* talk, infact, when I pirate someone i do it for a chase, but even when i have managed to catch and kill them (i wont kill anyone below a certain level, unless its grey space, that much is true) - i never message them afterwards telling them how lame they were, infact I even give them pointers.

In a perfect world, there would be no need for guns, i think its called human nature.

yoda,

I never stated that you had to say that out loud. Since you know perfectly well that we always have had a couple of people that actively hunted people that stated that they owned... And that people possibly only do so for the kick it gives them(the same kick as when you scream out on chat I RoXoRz your BoXoRz). Which you have actually stated yourselve, it gives you a kick to be able to chase somebody and kill him. My point was as long as your target doesn't agree that this gives a kick to him, you should not try to get your kick out of it. And the best way to solve this is either by all being nice (which is impossible) and for which I then gave the option that guildwars chose.

So I haven't stated anything about it being a perfect world. I did however stated that this would allow people to have a choice and isn't that what a good game is about... Each with their own specific advantages, but not impeding you from enjoying the totality of the game.

I want to see is a new chapter in the Strategy Guide entitled "Yodaofborg's Pirating Primer."

Here's my two cents on pirating:
1. It's not necessary to warn your target. Just attack. Unless you want to ask for money, but you probably won't get any.
2. Engage in polite conversation. Really, the only irritating PKers are the ones who won't talk and/or have a big chip on their shoulder. Humility is part of politeness, so don't crow about your victories or mock your victims.

That's it! Player pirates are a fun part of the game. The only thing that makes it unfun is the very small number of "pirates" who act like jerks.

There are protections for those who don't want to play a risky game. They can't make as much cash, of course, but you can always stick to your nation's space, trading between your own nations bases, under their protection. I did that for a while until I felt that I had decent enough equipment to risk going into the more dangerous sectors. You can set up a pretty profitable routine in just Dau if you like, and you will build up TGP and UIT standing quickly (as I did) and will be protected by the station guards, etc, and the no fire zones. There is also the protection that pirates can lose license levels by shooting down beginning players whose licenses aren't that high.

But the point is that if you want to play the game to it's fullest potential and have the opportunity to make the big bucks trading and mining, etc, you have to be willing to take some risk.

Again, I'm no pirate, but I enjoy a good chase, too, even if I'm the target. And I can usually get away by strafing, rolling, or both when I need to let my battery charge, then boosting the rest of the way. That's what makes the trading aspect of the game rewarding - knowing you actually had to work for the money, not just rote boost to jump point, jump, boost to 3000m, jump, dock.

From an economics point of view it makes more sense to warn people before blowing them up if you are a pirate.

Here's my logic.

Trader flies into gray space and encounters a pirate. Pirate threatens to blow up your ship unless you give some money and/or dump your cargo....

Trader has two choices...
1 ) run, and likely die. Likely incurring replacement costs for the ship and cargo... pretty expensive sometimes. Trader gets frustrated/annoyed and trades somewhere else for a while.

2 ) hand over the cash and go your merry way. Less expensive if the pirate is smart enough to ask for a reasonable amount. Trader keeps trading and may cross paths with the trader again. Rinse, repeat. Next time the trader might bring an escort. Feel free to kill him.

Honestly, how many traders in gray space hire escorts? They should, as no trading ship should be a match for a pirate.

Up until recently, the trader's choice 1) was "run, and likely escape"

As the light fighters get tweaked things are shifting in favor of the pirate actually having time to ask for a drop or money, should they be so inclined.

...[out of memory, happened several weeks ago, sorry for inaccuracies]

Channel 100

<Lem> I'm a n00b and i'd like to duel - anybody interested?
<itani guy> what are your levels and nation?
<Lem> 3/3/2
<itani guy> you have no chance then
<Lem> I sure will learn something :)
<itani guy> ok, come to Sedina O7
<Lem> on my way

Lem takes his thank-you-bug EC107 bus and goes from Dau to Azek, heading to Sedina.

Dau/Azek wormhole - Azek side - sector chat

<pirate> stop and give me 20000c or I blow your ship up
Pirate brings Lem down to 50%; Lem stops and does not even turn towards pirate
<Lem> I don't have that much and I go to duel in Sedina, as said on channel 100
Pirate kills Lem

Back to Dau – msg chat

<Lem> what's the point?
<pirate> no offence, just needed this kill for the badge
<Lem> can I go duel now?
<pirate> ok for this time, but this is an exception

…[end of story, no comment]

I have a comment:
That was a nicer pirate than most.

Didn't we just have this thread???

[moved to Role Playing]

I put my name to being that pirate. I saw the ec-107 = not a bus in my eyes, I didnt see the duel invite on 100, or it would not have happened in the first place.

yoda, shouldn't have happened at all...

And like genka stated, that was one of the nicer pirates, one of the less nicer pirates (former phoenix or icarus unless the itan dude was somebody they respected highly (starfreeze for instance)) would not have allowed the newbie to duel with the itan dude. Meaning that the pirate would have contineously shot the little guy. Which can be classified as griefing.

Which drove away a lot of newbies in the past (influx of 100 on a month, 2 remained on a month...). And I do not want to see that contineou in the game as it is now.

PS: starfisher, it would be foolish to think that it would be easy for a pirate to actually pirate somebody if the trader ran or that it should be even possible. This is why I advocated a ship with practically no weapons (exception a minelauncher), turning like a stone brick, slow to accelerate or to speed up but with a hefty whopping (x (example 3) times of the normal) amount of cargocapacity. Which if used in hostile space should always be accompagnied by escorts and should therefore be used in group trademissions.

All the other normal ships should therefore have a decent way at fending off hostiles, no mather the size. The only difference should be the way you fend them off, either supreme dodging but way less agility or turning like a brick, but being able to pack a serious punch so you can run or so you can use the armor to buy you the time to kill the opponent.

PPS FM, what does it matter if it was only discussed a little bit ago. It seems to be a hot topic (even more so then it used to be). And even if you prefer to not hear anything about it, it seems if you close it, another thread will just be made. Maybe you should just sticky a thread about piracy and let people discuss in it. Maybe it would stop the recreation of these threads. And why do you keep this thread in roleplaying... it is more something that belongs to the general public and not only to the people that check the roleplaying board...

[No need to be rude. I locked the last one because the same points had been made and remade x3 and it appeared to be done. Now the same points are being made again, so be it. In my opinion it belongs in RP forum, and that's my call to make. -FM]
EDIT at FM
I wasn't rude, just trying to make the point that if the same threads keep popping up it would maybe be easier to in stead of casting them away to some kind of second ranked place in the board whch the roleplaying part is, it would maybe be easier to just sticky one in the general forum containing all these posts.

I was not in that good of a ship, and hey, he could have dueled me, im game...

...Although i actually agree with your point about people leaving because of being griefed...

Since beta, i have not been called richard crainium, i also would not want to drive new players away.

P.S.

If you think all them players left because of piracy, your wrong.

-->..It seems to be a hot topic..<--

Yea, so does walking around in stations and landing on planets.

yoda, if you just got owned by some pirate, while you were going for a duel with some other person to learn it (or have some fun). What would be the chance that you would take the opportunity to somebody taking on a bus in a semi-decent ship.

Not to mention if this person is a pirate (even a nice one), you prefer to avoid him as much as possible (since comparison with class bully). Just to make sure that you can have fun. Since if you by chance piss him off (by actually killing him in combat), he will chase your defenseless trading ship contineously to take revenge. Which ruins your fun... (Yes this happens)

And no, I don't think that piracy is the sole reason for newbies leaving. However when the game was in beta (aka free), this was the sole reason yes (this and no time to play). But once the game went public and you had to pay to play, the sole reason were lack of content (sorry to say but 10 euro a month is a lot for the content it has, I know games that cost nothing or practically nothing (4 euro a month) and which have more RPG content). The piracy just makes sure that the people not interested in actual defending agaisnt piracy or willing to engage into pvp will stop subscribing. And it will have a small extra effect on newbies not staying, but minimal since in 8 hours of testinggameplay the chances are minimal that you went out of the safe zone just yet. If you however gave them a week of free play (which I have seen in a lot of the MMORPGs, AO has even got 1 year of free time to lure newbies), then piracy would form a potential bigger risk.

But no piracy is not the main reason just yet, it will however (for the casual player) once actual content is put in.

But as long as the community doesn't allow people that are only interested in pve to run around in grey space, then I will not expect a lot of the casual players to keep on playing for long. I say this because I wasn't to fond of pvp (piracy part) either and only stayed because of the community and the people I knew. Although its change was one of the reasons that I quit (that and my lack in time...)

Genka: and to this you have a conscise answer that it will not be possible due to a complete redo of the engine. Meaning that it might be possible on the long term, but on the shorter term 1 - 2 years, forget about it. I even believe that was in the faq, or in one of the pinned stickies.

I bought the game in a store and got a free month - for a free download, I can understand that there is no free trial. Maybe a week would be nice, though, to get people interested.

lone, there is a free trial of 8 hours.

but I can understand the devs to not be extending it to a week just yet. The content is just a bit on the small side for that. Once some actual storycontent gets added, they should think about increasing it to 1 week.

I do allot of treading in grey space. (I like the risk, even though it is little...) Any way I do see allot of pirates and I must say for their profession they are mostly vary nice guys. Most of the time after they fight you they will give you pointers, also when ever I "donate" to one, they leave me alone like they said they would. I even had one once in UIT space stop me out side of a station and ask for 25k then he said, never mind I try not to pirate in controlled space, I don't want any one to lose faction cuz they had to fight me.

I like the pirates in VO.

Well, that's certainly enough time to see whether or not this is a game you might like or not, and 10/mo certainly isn't expensive, especially if you just want to try it out for a month. I just subscribed today.

But back to the subject, Renegade - a pirate will want a decent hold if he or she is actually pirating. The ships with the largest holds aren't nearly as fast as some of the ships newbies can get. What is the centurion mk1's max turbo speed? 220? And the wraith can infiniboost at 200. A warthog II can go 220 on infiniboost, can't it? Plenty good for beginners trading. The odds are very much in favor of beginners, especially if they stay out of pirate territory (like not trying to start off with better equipment by going to corvus).