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If this is really not going to change the game much, why limit radar at all? If 8k is the radar limit then Lecter is right. If i see someone on the radar i can still jump away. So what is the point of the change?
Jestatis: I'll try to answer your question, although I'm not totally certain what you're asking.
The reason for this general "change" of not-showing-all-people is simply to allow the prospect of hiding under certain circumstances. Pirates hiding from their prey, or from the authorities. Miners hiding from pirates or hive. Traders hiding from.. everyone. Assuming a mix of different "radar ranges" based on varying "conditions" (different fog densities, etc) this could create some really interesting gameplay situations. It might not substantially change things in major "clear" sectors, but that isn't really the goal.
The reason why a radar limit is needed, is due to the long-range intent of sectors. I am aiming to have intra-sector jumps with multiple "locations" (possibly including stations, etc) within single sectors. Radar range limits the distance at which network information needs to be sent to the client. Unlimiting that could be.. sub-optimal, especially in conditions where something "big" (a battle, whatever) is happening a great distance away. You don't really need to know about the big convoy undocking 2 kilometers away at that other station in the sector, it just isn't that important. Having some reasonable limit on radar range is useful in this way.
The reason for this general "change" of not-showing-all-people is simply to allow the prospect of hiding under certain circumstances. Pirates hiding from their prey, or from the authorities. Miners hiding from pirates or hive. Traders hiding from.. everyone. Assuming a mix of different "radar ranges" based on varying "conditions" (different fog densities, etc) this could create some really interesting gameplay situations. It might not substantially change things in major "clear" sectors, but that isn't really the goal.
The reason why a radar limit is needed, is due to the long-range intent of sectors. I am aiming to have intra-sector jumps with multiple "locations" (possibly including stations, etc) within single sectors. Radar range limits the distance at which network information needs to be sent to the client. Unlimiting that could be.. sub-optimal, especially in conditions where something "big" (a battle, whatever) is happening a great distance away. You don't really need to know about the big convoy undocking 2 kilometers away at that other station in the sector, it just isn't that important. Having some reasonable limit on radar range is useful in this way.
Radar range > transponder range sounds like a good compromise.
I'd like to suggest that anything outside of transponder range (Nearby Ships list) be undifferentiated (bogie) on the radar (with an exception as below); only ships that get within transponder range can be identified as friend or foe (green or red).
The maximum range for the proximity alert is currently the maximum range something can be targeted; That should remain the case whatever the radar range as it indicates when you enter someone else's threat zone. Targeting range needn't be tied to transponder range but should be less than radar range.
Since plugins like AlertMachine and Targetless seem to work off the Nearby Ships list, they shouldn't give anymore advance warning than constantly monitoring the list (which is what they do in their automated way).
However, I'd still argue for being able to *always* see group members on one's radar as essential; I've done several Border Skirmishes where the battle has gotten divided into two or three separate firefights separated by more than 5000m (hard to say how much more since I can't range anything beyond that but sometimes substantially more as measured by the time it takes to get ships in range) and the only way to find them is by checking the radar for location of friendly cap ships which show up as white dots (group members).
I'd like to suggest that anything outside of transponder range (Nearby Ships list) be undifferentiated (bogie) on the radar (with an exception as below); only ships that get within transponder range can be identified as friend or foe (green or red).
The maximum range for the proximity alert is currently the maximum range something can be targeted; That should remain the case whatever the radar range as it indicates when you enter someone else's threat zone. Targeting range needn't be tied to transponder range but should be less than radar range.
Since plugins like AlertMachine and Targetless seem to work off the Nearby Ships list, they shouldn't give anymore advance warning than constantly monitoring the list (which is what they do in their automated way).
However, I'd still argue for being able to *always* see group members on one's radar as essential; I've done several Border Skirmishes where the battle has gotten divided into two or three separate firefights separated by more than 5000m (hard to say how much more since I can't range anything beyond that but sometimes substantially more as measured by the time it takes to get ships in range) and the only way to find them is by checking the radar for location of friendly cap ships which show up as white dots (group members).
I have no problem with unlimited group-member distance, for the reasons stated. That's why we have it now.
So.. basically the suggestion here seems to be that we have some sort of fixed distance at which Friend/Foe can be determined (say, 5000m or.. whatever), and then another distance beyond that (3000m?) where we can see that there are.. ships there?
If this is the desire, it would have to include very little data on the ships at all. Maybe just their config (Ship type, etc), but nothing on the character name, etc. Otherwise, a plugin will simply be made to catalogue all players and determine "friend/foe" based on character name and known pirates. (Of course, if we include ship config data, even, then someone will make a plugin to trigger on that as well).
I dunno, am I recapping the general point here?
More feedback and continue revision / perspectives welcome.
So.. basically the suggestion here seems to be that we have some sort of fixed distance at which Friend/Foe can be determined (say, 5000m or.. whatever), and then another distance beyond that (3000m?) where we can see that there are.. ships there?
If this is the desire, it would have to include very little data on the ships at all. Maybe just their config (Ship type, etc), but nothing on the character name, etc. Otherwise, a plugin will simply be made to catalogue all players and determine "friend/foe" based on character name and known pirates. (Of course, if we include ship config data, even, then someone will make a plugin to trigger on that as well).
I dunno, am I recapping the general point here?
More feedback and continue revision / perspectives welcome.
I'd say anything beyond the friend/foe range just shows as a generic ship; no data available beyond the fact that "something" is there.
Well, if you want to get fancy, make it a detection of mass so you could tell, in general, it's size category (light/medium/heavy/capital) by the size of the radar dot. Small ships would be harder to see while cap ships would be impossible to miss.
Well, if you want to get fancy, make it a detection of mass so you could tell, in general, it's size category (light/medium/heavy/capital) by the size of the radar dot. Small ships would be harder to see while cap ships would be impossible to miss.
-Open Space-
3000m: gray radar mass forms on the screens, but a ship is not distinct from other objects; only size of object is reflected, becoming sharper as distance is closed. Nearby Ships list does not relect the presence of a ship in the 3000m-1001m range.
1000m: transponders kick in, putting ships on the radar screen in green or red IFF colors, and also placing them on the "u" screen of Nearby Ships.
Otherwise, a plugin will simply be made to catalogue all players and determine "friend/foe" based on character name and known pirates. (Of course, if we include ship config data, even, then someone will make a plugin to trigger on that as well).
Uh, Inc. the idea is to gut all that data from the list. The "u" list shouldn't show ANYTHING for pilots outside transponder range. If someone wants data, they can look at their radar screens.
3000m: gray radar mass forms on the screens, but a ship is not distinct from other objects; only size of object is reflected, becoming sharper as distance is closed. Nearby Ships list does not relect the presence of a ship in the 3000m-1001m range.
1000m: transponders kick in, putting ships on the radar screen in green or red IFF colors, and also placing them on the "u" screen of Nearby Ships.
Otherwise, a plugin will simply be made to catalogue all players and determine "friend/foe" based on character name and known pirates. (Of course, if we include ship config data, even, then someone will make a plugin to trigger on that as well).
Uh, Inc. the idea is to gut all that data from the list. The "u" list shouldn't show ANYTHING for pilots outside transponder range. If someone wants data, they can look at their radar screens.
Dr. Lecter that range is too close. You can make a hit from 1k. The game is not just for pirates there needs to be middle ground.
Traders need some clue to who is near them. 5k is ok for showing everything about someone near by. And between 5k and 8k is ok for general radar i think. Any farther then 8k no radar i guess.
I will still welcome any plug-in that can give me more information about players near me.
Traders need some clue to who is near them. 5k is ok for showing everything about someone near by. And between 5k and 8k is ok for general radar i think. Any farther then 8k no radar i guess.
I will still welcome any plug-in that can give me more information about players near me.
If we are talking about better immersion here, why not remove universal transponders completely?
Long range radar can discover ship presence at max 3000m.
Nation pilots use nation transponder devices and they can identify each other but not other nation pilots or ships until they come into visual range, say 1000m.
Radar ("u") could show something like this:
- unknown at 2450m (red color)
- unknown at 2120m (red color)
- Kopus Tol / Itani Border Guardian at 1500m (blue color)
- Ostala Bashenk / EC-89 at 650m (yellow color)
- SmegheadOfBorg /Prometheus MkII at 850m (red color)
Long range radar can discover ship presence at max 3000m.
Nation pilots use nation transponder devices and they can identify each other but not other nation pilots or ships until they come into visual range, say 1000m.
Radar ("u") could show something like this:
- unknown at 2450m (red color)
- unknown at 2120m (red color)
- Kopus Tol / Itani Border Guardian at 1500m (blue color)
- Ostala Bashenk / EC-89 at 650m (yellow color)
- SmegheadOfBorg /Prometheus MkII at 850m (red color)
Fine, 1500m. My point remains. And unless the escape mode of the game requires more than simply boosting to 3000m and being instantly safe, the need to reduce time allowed for reaction to contact will remain.
Your point remains Lecter and more then you realised in your reply.
Quote: Nation pilots use nation transponder devices and they can identify each other but not other nation pilots or ships until they come into visual range, say 1000m.
Only reason why Kopus Tol is identified at 1500m instead at 1000m is because he is Itani and we have same nation transponders.
Quote: Nation pilots use nation transponder devices and they can identify each other but not other nation pilots or ships until they come into visual range, say 1000m.
Only reason why Kopus Tol is identified at 1500m instead at 1000m is because he is Itani and we have same nation transponders.
What about radar extenders and BVR engagement? Will extenders exist, and if they do, will people be able to engage others with weapons without them knowing (of course, the gig is up once you hear the beeping).
Just wondering, because I find the idea of being able to initiate attack runs without the target knowing about it outright quite interesting; it would certainly add a new variation to combat.
Not to forget ships that could act as sensor relay stations for entire groups, extending the collective acquisition range and bringing new tactics to the table. I know there were suggestions about this too, apologies to the people whose posts I just plagiarized.
Also, just ship mass would still be an interesting part of the info, for pirates more so than others, allowing them to filter their targets. It could also be used in conjunction with the weapon power-down suggestion: If a ship closes or comes into radar range with its weapons hot, it shows as red, with its weapons powered down, it shows as grey, but with more intensity than an asteroid. Once it comes into visual range, colors change according to whatever IFF system is in place.
And does one lose access to same-nation transponder frequencies when one drops below docking privilege standing with one's own nation? Would make sense, wouldn't it.
Just wondering, because I find the idea of being able to initiate attack runs without the target knowing about it outright quite interesting; it would certainly add a new variation to combat.
Not to forget ships that could act as sensor relay stations for entire groups, extending the collective acquisition range and bringing new tactics to the table. I know there were suggestions about this too, apologies to the people whose posts I just plagiarized.
Also, just ship mass would still be an interesting part of the info, for pirates more so than others, allowing them to filter their targets. It could also be used in conjunction with the weapon power-down suggestion: If a ship closes or comes into radar range with its weapons hot, it shows as red, with its weapons powered down, it shows as grey, but with more intensity than an asteroid. Once it comes into visual range, colors change according to whatever IFF system is in place.
And does one lose access to same-nation transponder frequencies when one drops below docking privilege standing with one's own nation? Would make sense, wouldn't it.
I can see how the range of 1000m would help pirates. But how will this help traders? I still think the min range should be 5k. The pirate usually will have speed and better weapons on his side. The trader will have a taur or a moth. Even out 5k a pirate has a good chance of catching up to a trader.
There has to be a compromise here somewhere. 1000m gives the pirates to great of an advantage. Once targeted could a moth have any hope of getting away from a rev c pirate?
There has to be a compromise here somewhere. 1000m gives the pirates to great of an advantage. Once targeted could a moth have any hope of getting away from a rev c pirate?
I like a layered thing...
At longer ranges you would know a ship is there, as it gets closer you can see what ship type it is (vulture, hog, centaur), even closer and you can pick up the ship's variant.
Also knowing that a ship has warped out or in at extreme ranges (possibly even beyond radar) might be nice, since you can see the warp animation from many many km away the ship's sensors should be able to pick those up as well, maybe even the ship size? Large being things like moths and rags while smalls would be ECs and centurions. Once the animation is over though that ship will vanish from the list if out of range.
At longer ranges you would know a ship is there, as it gets closer you can see what ship type it is (vulture, hog, centaur), even closer and you can pick up the ship's variant.
Also knowing that a ship has warped out or in at extreme ranges (possibly even beyond radar) might be nice, since you can see the warp animation from many many km away the ship's sensors should be able to pick those up as well, maybe even the ship size? Large being things like moths and rags while smalls would be ECs and centurions. Once the animation is over though that ship will vanish from the list if out of range.
Even out 5k a pirate has a good chance of catching up to a trader.
Unless the trader is stuck in a samoflange loaded XC, the stupidity of that statement is blinding.
As I said above, a major factor in considering the range of sensors--which governs available reaction time--has to be how long it takes a pilot to "opt out" of an encounter entirely by running away. With the current 3000m limit and other minor jump requirements, the answer is "very, very little time" is required to simply escape.
Thus, anything that cuts down on the reaction time increases the chances of pilot encounters actually involving contact. This is a good thing, even for the traders: nobody should be just trucking through all space unarmed and unopposed, protected by a game dynamic of "running is an easy and almost always effective defense." The problem, of course, is that running works the same way in all parts of VO.
Instead, what keeps a pilot safe from encounters--potentially involving aggression--should be variable. In Nation Space, pilots should be defended by extensive, faction based defenses (no need to run away). If they're in Gray, they should have a harder time overall than they currently do, and should have to resort to caution, less than direct routes, escorts, defensive weapons, less trade-oriented ships, and/or paying pirates off.
Having the most effective defense in the game be equally useful all across the playing terrain is fundamentally game breaking.
Unless the trader is stuck in a samoflange loaded XC, the stupidity of that statement is blinding.
As I said above, a major factor in considering the range of sensors--which governs available reaction time--has to be how long it takes a pilot to "opt out" of an encounter entirely by running away. With the current 3000m limit and other minor jump requirements, the answer is "very, very little time" is required to simply escape.
Thus, anything that cuts down on the reaction time increases the chances of pilot encounters actually involving contact. This is a good thing, even for the traders: nobody should be just trucking through all space unarmed and unopposed, protected by a game dynamic of "running is an easy and almost always effective defense." The problem, of course, is that running works the same way in all parts of VO.
Instead, what keeps a pilot safe from encounters--potentially involving aggression--should be variable. In Nation Space, pilots should be defended by extensive, faction based defenses (no need to run away). If they're in Gray, they should have a harder time overall than they currently do, and should have to resort to caution, less than direct routes, escorts, defensive weapons, less trade-oriented ships, and/or paying pirates off.
Having the most effective defense in the game be equally useful all across the playing terrain is fundamentally game breaking.
Well, two simple points . Firstly it would make keeping track of what is happening during events such as the Nation War rather difficult, unless the range can be set by the devs on a sector by sector basis.
Secondly , at present some of the HS missions can spread out over 20 k m with the queen wandering off to a distant roid.
Rather than making it radar range why not a figure of 10k as a practical compromise ?
Secondly , at present some of the HS missions can spread out over 20 k m with the queen wandering off to a distant roid.
Rather than making it radar range why not a figure of 10k as a practical compromise ?
The reason for this general "change" of not-showing-all-people is simply to allow the prospect of hiding under certain circumstances. Pirates hiding from their prey, or from the authorities. Miners hiding from pirates or hive. Traders hiding from.. everyone. Assuming a mix of different "radar ranges" based on varying "conditions" (different fog densities, etc) this could create some really interesting gameplay situations. It might not substantially change things in major "clear" sectors, but that isn't really the goal.
The reason why a radar limit is needed, is due to the long-range intent of sectors. I am aiming to have intra-sector jumps with multiple "locations" (possibly including stations, etc) within single sectors. Radar range limits the distance at which network information needs to be sent to the client. Unlimiting that could be.. sub-optimal, especially in conditions where something "big" (a battle, whatever) is happening a great distance away. You don't really need to know about the big convoy undocking 2 kilometers away at that other station in the sector, it just isn't that important. Having some reasonable limit on radar range is useful in this way.
The issue of finding people to do stuff with is a very valid one.
As it is now, even with the little advertising stunt with mmorpg.com, the player density in the game is still extremely low. Changing how the radar works in a fashion that limits who you can see in the sector, if done right now, would be an extremely dumb move. People already have a hard enough time congregating and finding each other.
There are currently no game mechanics in play that make this necessary. Pirates hiding from their prey is one thing, and can be accomplished just fine in ion storms if this were implemented, but really John, you shouldn't be trying to make us laugh by including "hiding from the authorities". Really, do you expect us to forget that NPCs all have magical radars that can find you ANYWHERE in a sector? You have a lot of other bugfixes, features and (active) subscribers to go before the cutdown on interaction is worth the change.
My feeling is that if I can identify the ship with my own eyes using +zoom, I should be able to identify the ship on my radar. And as I can see ships from roughly 60km away if I know where they are and my LOD settings are high enough, the 5km radar range seems rather off. Hell, considering *real life* radar systems, the radar range we get is pitiful! One would think that even with the mini Dark Ages experienced after the wormhole in Sol II collapsed, that radar would have at least been miniaturized to the point that it was as capable ingame as it is now and still able to fit in the ships we fly. Even considering that it's reasonable for just a moment that this is impossible, capships and stations would most certainly have this ability and would be able to pass it on to anyone who meets standing requirements, like those participating in a BS group or anyone with sufficient standing with the owner of the station.
And speaking of capships, given how severely retarded they are in BS, we already have to use our eyes to find the damn things because sometimes they go drifting off to one side of the fight, never return, and aren't in the group.
I've been pretty irritated at how major bugs seem to be being ignored while meaningless or broken additions have been made (like green fog in Dau K-10. SERIOUSLY, what the hell? There never were any xith roids in there, what the hell is the fog doing there?) and then left in their meaningless or broken state, so if this post comes off as slightly pissed off or hostile, well... it is.
The reason why a radar limit is needed, is due to the long-range intent of sectors. I am aiming to have intra-sector jumps with multiple "locations" (possibly including stations, etc) within single sectors. Radar range limits the distance at which network information needs to be sent to the client. Unlimiting that could be.. sub-optimal, especially in conditions where something "big" (a battle, whatever) is happening a great distance away. You don't really need to know about the big convoy undocking 2 kilometers away at that other station in the sector, it just isn't that important. Having some reasonable limit on radar range is useful in this way.
The issue of finding people to do stuff with is a very valid one.
As it is now, even with the little advertising stunt with mmorpg.com, the player density in the game is still extremely low. Changing how the radar works in a fashion that limits who you can see in the sector, if done right now, would be an extremely dumb move. People already have a hard enough time congregating and finding each other.
There are currently no game mechanics in play that make this necessary. Pirates hiding from their prey is one thing, and can be accomplished just fine in ion storms if this were implemented, but really John, you shouldn't be trying to make us laugh by including "hiding from the authorities". Really, do you expect us to forget that NPCs all have magical radars that can find you ANYWHERE in a sector? You have a lot of other bugfixes, features and (active) subscribers to go before the cutdown on interaction is worth the change.
My feeling is that if I can identify the ship with my own eyes using +zoom, I should be able to identify the ship on my radar. And as I can see ships from roughly 60km away if I know where they are and my LOD settings are high enough, the 5km radar range seems rather off. Hell, considering *real life* radar systems, the radar range we get is pitiful! One would think that even with the mini Dark Ages experienced after the wormhole in Sol II collapsed, that radar would have at least been miniaturized to the point that it was as capable ingame as it is now and still able to fit in the ships we fly. Even considering that it's reasonable for just a moment that this is impossible, capships and stations would most certainly have this ability and would be able to pass it on to anyone who meets standing requirements, like those participating in a BS group or anyone with sufficient standing with the owner of the station.
And speaking of capships, given how severely retarded they are in BS, we already have to use our eyes to find the damn things because sometimes they go drifting off to one side of the fight, never return, and aren't in the group.
I've been pretty irritated at how major bugs seem to be being ignored while meaningless or broken additions have been made (like green fog in Dau K-10. SERIOUSLY, what the hell? There never were any xith roids in there, what the hell is the fog doing there?) and then left in their meaningless or broken state, so if this post comes off as slightly pissed off or hostile, well... it is.
My feeling is that if I can identify the ship with my own eyes using +zoom, I should be able to identify the ship on my radar.
Of course, whether you'd know it was there or where to find it is a total non-issue. Genius!
Changing how the radar works in a fashion that limits who you can see in the sector, if done right now, would be an extremely dumb move. People already have a hard enough time congregating and finding each other.
Since people tend to use the same space in any given sector, rather than wandering all over it, I think this is far less relevant than your obnoxious screed's length would imply.
Of course, whether you'd know it was there or where to find it is a total non-issue. Genius!
Changing how the radar works in a fashion that limits who you can see in the sector, if done right now, would be an extremely dumb move. People already have a hard enough time congregating and finding each other.
Since people tend to use the same space in any given sector, rather than wandering all over it, I think this is far less relevant than your obnoxious screed's length would imply.
Interesting. Ok you sold me on the idea in a way. BUT.
I want in station radar/id to 10,000....
keep basic radar at 5000 with no id
3000 meter IFF system
2000 meter positive id of all targets.
also radar extenders become accessories with thier own port...
"u" would only show id'd targets in space
Re fog in dau... its not xith. I got sick in ryans hat that day and we had to toss it out the lock as my eyes were burning from the smell....I hope it clears up soon....
I want in station radar/id to 10,000....
keep basic radar at 5000 with no id
3000 meter IFF system
2000 meter positive id of all targets.
also radar extenders become accessories with thier own port...
"u" would only show id'd targets in space
Re fog in dau... its not xith. I got sick in ryans hat that day and we had to toss it out the lock as my eyes were burning from the smell....I hope it clears up soon....
I'm all the way with Lecter here. We have groups, we have channels, and yes, we should have to use zoom if we want to find someone out of radar range (now it's a useful game mechanic!)
There are a few situations where a 'sector list' of players could be useful, but if the devs are saying they could make these changes different per sector, we could always have a special flag for nation war sectors.
Outside of the nationwar, there's not really a need for a universal list. What other MMORPG has these? You complain about not being able to find people- that's not a legitiment argument, seeing as we have many forms of communication, coupled with the natural tendency to stick together, it's never been a problem. And it won't be.
Maybe groups should be easier to join (perhaps a ui popup, like a bouncing "G" on the HUD, and then when you open the PDA you can accept it) so it's easier to see someone's location from anywhere in the sector
There are a few situations where a 'sector list' of players could be useful, but if the devs are saying they could make these changes different per sector, we could always have a special flag for nation war sectors.
Outside of the nationwar, there's not really a need for a universal list. What other MMORPG has these? You complain about not being able to find people- that's not a legitiment argument, seeing as we have many forms of communication, coupled with the natural tendency to stick together, it's never been a problem. And it won't be.
Maybe groups should be easier to join (perhaps a ui popup, like a bouncing "G" on the HUD, and then when you open the PDA you can accept it) so it's easier to see someone's location from anywhere in the sector
Is now the time to mention and WISH PASSIONATELY for Radar Occlusion?
i.e. radar will not detect you if your target's radar hits another object instead of you first. You could hide behind other ships, inside a Trident or HAC, behind stations, behind asteroids, etc.
I don't care as much about radar weakening with range-to-target, but I would VERY MUCH enjoy radar occlusion.
However, I think that the radar system would be neat if it could only identify an intermittent "contact" at 10 km, it could identify the ship's type at 5km, but only within 1000 m could you get a transponder beacon.
Furthermore, I think that the owner of a ship should be able to fly with transponder OFF, so that you could have fights with a "mystery contact" if your opponent has no wish to be identified.
If you kill him, though, I suppose you can automatically see who it was.
I imagine the following scenario (In a trident):
"Conn, radar! New contact, 6500 m out bearing 224 degrees mark 43!"
"Radar, conn, designate new contact Sierra-One and plot intercept course."
"Weaps, conn, power up gauss and flares and assume battlestations."
"Engineering, this is Conn - we're going tactical, I need full military speed now."
"General Stations, everyone! This is not a drill!"
i.e. radar will not detect you if your target's radar hits another object instead of you first. You could hide behind other ships, inside a Trident or HAC, behind stations, behind asteroids, etc.
I don't care as much about radar weakening with range-to-target, but I would VERY MUCH enjoy radar occlusion.
However, I think that the radar system would be neat if it could only identify an intermittent "contact" at 10 km, it could identify the ship's type at 5km, but only within 1000 m could you get a transponder beacon.
Furthermore, I think that the owner of a ship should be able to fly with transponder OFF, so that you could have fights with a "mystery contact" if your opponent has no wish to be identified.
If you kill him, though, I suppose you can automatically see who it was.
I imagine the following scenario (In a trident):
"Conn, radar! New contact, 6500 m out bearing 224 degrees mark 43!"
"Radar, conn, designate new contact Sierra-One and plot intercept course."
"Weaps, conn, power up gauss and flares and assume battlestations."
"Engineering, this is Conn - we're going tactical, I need full military speed now."
"General Stations, everyone! This is not a drill!"