Forums » Suggestions

Simple first-generation faction conflict mutual-exclusion.

Apr 18, 2012 slime73 link
While I definitely think having a balance should mean less than admire for both factions in question, I'll accept mid-admire for the moment so the kinks can get worked out. :)
Apr 18, 2012 Dr. Lecter link
I'd personally cap standing at (at most) "Respect" for one side in a mutually exclusive pair if you go into "Admire" or above with the other.

This. You should not get the benefits of Admire for both mutually excusive factions. Inc, man the fuck up for a change.
Apr 18, 2012 greenwall link
people who lose a POS standing should get a special prize deposited into their ship upon login for the lost effort. :) Shall we say 4 pieces of Samoflange? Ok good.
Apr 18, 2012 Dr. Lecter link
I agree with Greenwall, on the condition that those four pieces of samo become a permanent, non-transferrable addition to the mass of each and every ship they own or buy. Their being bloated sacks of shit should be recognized accordingly.
Apr 18, 2012 CrazySpence link
I love you
Apr 18, 2012 Pizzasgood link
Seriously, it's not like POS is that big of an accomplishment to lose. I've done more faction building than most traders have. There is a reason I am at trade level 16. With an XC at your disposal, you can hit POS in just a few hours. Even less if you can get a friendly trident and some friends to help you move cargo - and that should be easy for you trader and nationalist types. If a scurvy rat like me can manage to hire minions to do my hauling for me, you people certainly can.
Apr 18, 2012 incarnate link
Interesting. Well, the feedback on dialing up the standing repercussions is well received. And that's why threads like this are a useful gauge.

I'm now considering a "trigger" point at the top of Neutral (one point below Respect). Meaning that a user could achieve high "Respect" with both sides at the same time (right below "Admire"), but PoS with one would result in high Neutral with the other.
Apr 18, 2012 zak.wilson link
I'd like to point out that there are situations in the real world where both sides of a conflict have a very favorable view of an organization. Most legitimate governments like refugee aid workers, the red cross and the like. Most would take a favorable view of people who combat piracy on the high seas and don't take sides in wars. Independent traders are usually respected - at least until one side or the other wants to use them as pawns.
Apr 18, 2012 Dr. Lecter link
I'm now considering a "trigger" point at the top of Neutral (one point below Respect). Meaning that a user could achieve high "Respect" with both sides at the same time (right below "Admire"), but PoS with one would result in high Neutral with the other.

Much better. Though in the future I'd like to see POS being the trigger point for -600 standing with the opposing faction. If you want to have +999, then you can have -599 and docking privileges with the enemy... but get awarded POS and you become Hated.
Apr 18, 2012 Pizzasgood link
I agree with Lector. The pillar of my enemy's society is my enemy. But yes, thanks for listening :)

zak: we do not grant the Red Cross access to F-16s, however much we might like them. The faction system represents more than just how much a person is "liked". Also, keep in mind that most of the major world powers today are pretty civilized. We do not live in a society that has been torn by constant war for hundreds of years. We're still confined to this one small ball of dirt, and we're all very much interconnected and interreliant. Not to mention related. The Itani had a forced period of isolation from the Serco and UIT lasting a thousand years or so, IIRC, and have been at war with the Serco since. So this universe lacks many of the ties that the real world has between various nations, which make us reluctant to kill eachother or fight dirty. The universe of Vendetta does not have a Geneva Convention.

Oh, and I should mention: the only reason we can have stuff like the Geneva Convention in our world is that most wars are between a few of the many factions. If somebody violates the rules of warfare, the rest can gang up on them. In Vendetta, this is not the case. There are only three real factions, and only the two who are at war have any appreciable military might. If the Serco shoot up some civilians, there is no UN to come in and sanction them.

And if you read the backstory, you will note that the UIT, who have been neutral for thousands of years, have never ever been liked, and the Serco outright abused them on a regular basis, to the point that they actually abandoned the planet to live in space.

So there really is no basis for being globally liked in this game.
Apr 18, 2012 meridian link
One point I'd like to raise to the devs is that if you are ever considering raising the bar for Axia/Valent exclusivity, then there are some missions in Verasi (PPC I think) that will break if the player cannot dock with both factions.

Not that what's currently proposed should cause any problems, just bear that in mind for the more distant future.
Apr 18, 2012 Phaserlight link
"Xithricite Apothecarium" sends the player to dock with a random Verasi station, from I5. I don't think the faction exclusivity will break anything new.
Apr 18, 2012 ryan reign link
I was cautiously excited until I saw this...

"This point of mutual exclusion, for right now, will be at the transition between Respect and Admire. Any points gained over that will be lost with the opposing side, until the side losing standing drops to the top of "Respect", after which it will not lose any further. Thus one could theoretically be PoS with one and Respected by the other, or halfway into "Admire" on both."

...on my first combat shoot there was another freelancer. When we saw our first combat, I started shooting immediately, he was nervous and shot from cover the whole time... after he managed to get his shit together. We stay in contact, guess which one of us got better pay for their shots that day?

The morale is... have some damned testicular fortitude. Mutual exclusion is mutual exclusion, NOT "oh, well you seem to be helping our enemies... we're slightly peeved, here's an easily fixed completely meaningless slap on the wrist.

These updates are starting to remind me of tossing change into a South American beggar child's hat.
Apr 18, 2012 genka link
Mmm, yes, the "morale" of the story is pretty clear:
Private military goons are fucking idiots who see their lives as commodities to be risked for a price, and are shocked to find that most people don't live that way (thank god.)
Apr 18, 2012 incarnate link
Ryan: Please at least read the whole thread before ranting.

Also, the original numbers were based less on controversy (although that's the only issue I mentioned) and more on concern over how much other due diligence we would need to do to make sure we didn't break anything as a result. If I kept it small, it was a bit safer, which was reasonable for something to be released in the next.. day. Development due-diligence takes time, and in the face of a big promo I didn't want to find some standing-dependent issue impacting newbies.. right when I get a big influx of users.

Anyway, we're now aiming for my revised numbers I posted later.
Apr 18, 2012 ryan reign link
You're assuming I didn't read this meaningless drivel?

"I'm now considering a "trigger" point at the top of Neutral (one point below Respect). Meaning that a user could achieve high "Respect" with both sides at the same time (right below "Admire"), but PoS with one would result in high Neutral with the other."


I only used the quote as a point of reference and skipped this because there is no valid difference.
Apr 19, 2012 Pizzasgood link
Actually, there is an important difference - with the second version you cannot be admired by both sides, which means that in at least one of the two's territory you are fair game to be killed without penalty. If you try to maintain perfect neutrality you are fair game in both.
Apr 19, 2012 ryan reign link
Pizza, ok... there is a difference albeit a tiny and insignificant one. I'll grant its an insignificant step in the right direction. Though I suppose it is significant in that it will actually happen.

Genka, I completely agree. Private military types are simply people paid to murder. There is a significant difference between a "Combat Shoot" what I do, and "Combat". I get paid less and am significantly less likely to kill anyone.
Apr 19, 2012 Dr. Lecter link
You're poachable in at least one faction's space, and you can't buy either faction's best hardware and ships unless you're high neutral/low respect with one. Seems a good starting point.
Apr 19, 2012 ryan reign link
An optimistic lawyer, I've never seen that. I'll consider this a starting point and see where or if it goes anywhere.