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If the project finally works, can we finally get some new content already? Please!
There's a post on /r/gamernews.
http://www.droidgamers.com/index.php/game-news/android-game-news/5371-vendetta-online-3d-mmorpg-heads-to-kickstarter-to-fund-a-huge-expansion
If I am reading the Kickstarter right, the target is $100k and that gets you the Ipad version only (no work being done on an expansion?). Another $100k ($200k in total) gets you the ipod version. I am really ignorant of development costs so forgive me Vendetta devs but I cant think of why it takes another $100k to develop an Ipod version if you already have an Ipad version in the works, does anyone else think this seems a bit shady? And this is a game that already works for Android, PC, Mac and Linux, did it take them $400k to bring it to those systems ($100k each respectively)? And all this begs the question just what are the subscriptions going on because judging from some comments the content hasn;t changed significantly in years. I smell greed.
I then replied
Yes there's lots of confusion about this around the place - the simple mistake they made with their campaign is putting the iPad and iPod ports first in the text before the content upgrades and using a high level of summary to describe the new content updates in the stretch goal images.
The iOS ports are a minority of the costs involved in the kickstarter campaign, it's overwhelmingly about taking the gameplay to VO 1.9 which is the other part of that primary goal. The next stretch goal, VO 2.0 is also a massive expansion in itself.
At the end of the day, the VO devs are honest programmers not fancy marketing wankers, they're passionate about making the game better and the kickstarter allows them to do that without having to spend time marketing the product.
It seems to be a common theme here, I really think you should add much more of the features of VO 1.9 onto that stretch goal image and make the iOS port just another feature along with things like capship shields, supply side variability etc.. etc.. so that this type of judgment at a glance and calling it a 'cash grab' goes away.
Also pretty much every press release title in every language is spotlight on the iPad:
"Vendetta Online Kickstarter Aims To Bring The MMO To iPad"
"Start del progetto Kickstarter per portare Vendetta Online su iPad"
"Vendetta : Un KickStarter pour le format Ipad"
It's not a great emphasis on the actual featureset so I think you've gotta do something big in terms of emphasizing features in these update videos, then you should try and get press releases for the features.
If I am reading the Kickstarter right, the target is $100k and that gets you the Ipad version only (no work being done on an expansion?). Another $100k ($200k in total) gets you the ipod version. I am really ignorant of development costs so forgive me Vendetta devs but I cant think of why it takes another $100k to develop an Ipod version if you already have an Ipad version in the works, does anyone else think this seems a bit shady? And this is a game that already works for Android, PC, Mac and Linux, did it take them $400k to bring it to those systems ($100k each respectively)? And all this begs the question just what are the subscriptions going on because judging from some comments the content hasn;t changed significantly in years. I smell greed.
I then replied
Yes there's lots of confusion about this around the place - the simple mistake they made with their campaign is putting the iPad and iPod ports first in the text before the content upgrades and using a high level of summary to describe the new content updates in the stretch goal images.
The iOS ports are a minority of the costs involved in the kickstarter campaign, it's overwhelmingly about taking the gameplay to VO 1.9 which is the other part of that primary goal. The next stretch goal, VO 2.0 is also a massive expansion in itself.
At the end of the day, the VO devs are honest programmers not fancy marketing wankers, they're passionate about making the game better and the kickstarter allows them to do that without having to spend time marketing the product.
It seems to be a common theme here, I really think you should add much more of the features of VO 1.9 onto that stretch goal image and make the iOS port just another feature along with things like capship shields, supply side variability etc.. etc.. so that this type of judgment at a glance and calling it a 'cash grab' goes away.
Also pretty much every press release title in every language is spotlight on the iPad:
"Vendetta Online Kickstarter Aims To Bring The MMO To iPad"
"Start del progetto Kickstarter per portare Vendetta Online su iPad"
"Vendetta : Un KickStarter pour le format Ipad"
It's not a great emphasis on the actual featureset so I think you've gotta do something big in terms of emphasizing features in these update videos, then you should try and get press releases for the features.
There's another post on the SC subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/179x48/while_the_topic_of_supporting_competing/
TRS: The updates will be mostly focusing on new gameplay content. I'll see what I can do to clarify the stretch goals.
But the way I approached the press release was a calculated risk: For a lot of the technology world "New MMO on iPad" is newsworthy, where "Vendetta Online makes game expansion" is not (unfortunately, I know this from long experience). I did my best to blend the two, and many of the news sites (Kotaku, TechCrunch) seemed to get the picture. Not everyone will, and some will oversimplify, but.. coverage is coverage.
But the way I approached the press release was a calculated risk: For a lot of the technology world "New MMO on iPad" is newsworthy, where "Vendetta Online makes game expansion" is not (unfortunately, I know this from long experience). I did my best to blend the two, and many of the news sites (Kotaku, TechCrunch) seemed to get the picture. Not everyone will, and some will oversimplify, but.. coverage is coverage.
Yes, and it makes sense as a strategy aimed at attracting press, but it's getting mixed reception. On the kickstarter pitch it's hard to see the emphasis on the funds going towards the expanded gameplay rather than purely to benefit iOS users or guild software as the beneficiary of a new market.
What I think might work is emphasizing the level of sandbox you give in the game-play and try and tap press attention with that. If you can demonstrate to people that VO is going to be a revolutionary MMO because of the quality and the level of player control in the gameplay you can distinguish purely on gameplay terms - rather than the whole "we run on everything" market position. To borrow the phrase you used, you want to say "Vendetta Online makes unique/unprecedented gameplay expansion"
I can't really say much more on this because I haven't played EVE or many other space MMO's, i'm not sure how the gameplay mechanics compare and how original you're really being in the space MMO scene. But i'm sure you can think of the one thing that VO is doing that everbody else is not with this expansion of gameplay and drive it home.
As forum posters it gives us a starting point for discussion about gameplay mechanics as well. If we an go onto another game forum and go, hey how cool is this mechanic going to be, it's a starting point to get people to talk back, rather than just purely "go here and watch this kickstarter pitch". We need some ammunition, sooner you can get those updates churning the better.
What I think might work is emphasizing the level of sandbox you give in the game-play and try and tap press attention with that. If you can demonstrate to people that VO is going to be a revolutionary MMO because of the quality and the level of player control in the gameplay you can distinguish purely on gameplay terms - rather than the whole "we run on everything" market position. To borrow the phrase you used, you want to say "Vendetta Online makes unique/unprecedented gameplay expansion"
I can't really say much more on this because I haven't played EVE or many other space MMO's, i'm not sure how the gameplay mechanics compare and how original you're really being in the space MMO scene. But i'm sure you can think of the one thing that VO is doing that everbody else is not with this expansion of gameplay and drive it home.
As forum posters it gives us a starting point for discussion about gameplay mechanics as well. If we an go onto another game forum and go, hey how cool is this mechanic going to be, it's a starting point to get people to talk back, rather than just purely "go here and watch this kickstarter pitch". We need some ammunition, sooner you can get those updates churning the better.
"VO focuses on letting anyone play anywhere, anytime, on any device, all in a vast persistent universe."
Shorten that up a bit, maybe..
Shorten that up a bit, maybe..
I mean the persistent universe/no instancing thing might be the most innovative gameplay niche that exists, allowing everyone to play on the same page and getting everyone involved in 'verse politics. Another might be the way you can PvP basically everywhere - that's especially controversial in some places.
It's tricky because VO is so unique to focus on one thing, but the simple fact is we have to much awesomeness to fit into a one line marketing slogan.
It's tricky because VO is so unique to focus on one thing, but the simple fact is we have to much awesomeness to fit into a one line marketing slogan.
Well, like I said, the video updates are going to be primarily about gameplay expansion. The whole reason why I targeted the addition of RTS mechanics into Dynamic Warfare for the first video-update is that I thought it might be the kind of topic that could get gameplay-oriented discussions going and help get the word out beyond "iPad MMO".
So, basically what you're suggesting has been my plan from the beginning. But I would not have gotten press traction with "Vendetta Online does the most amazing freaking thing ever", because the press (with a few kind exceptions) largely does not care about "Vendetta Online Anything". In my lengthy experience of trying to get press coverage for our game, they just aren't interested in small MMOs doing anything with gameplay, innovative or otherwise; the noise level is just way too high in the MMO space. That's part of what drove us onto mobile in the first place.
I did what I could for press, I structured the Kickstarter page the best that I could to get the most succinct message across, along with enough data for those who wanted to read more, and I'm working to bring more video content online.. but this stuff takes time.
Most of the people who think we're just funding an iPad port (from what I've seen in my own forum-type responses on BluesNews and elsewhere), have not looked at the KS page at all and are basically jumping to conclusions. There is not much I can do about that, except try and message with more content-related stuff moving forward, which is.. exactly what I'm doing and have been working on for some time.
So, basically what you're suggesting has been my plan from the beginning. But I would not have gotten press traction with "Vendetta Online does the most amazing freaking thing ever", because the press (with a few kind exceptions) largely does not care about "Vendetta Online Anything". In my lengthy experience of trying to get press coverage for our game, they just aren't interested in small MMOs doing anything with gameplay, innovative or otherwise; the noise level is just way too high in the MMO space. That's part of what drove us onto mobile in the first place.
I did what I could for press, I structured the Kickstarter page the best that I could to get the most succinct message across, along with enough data for those who wanted to read more, and I'm working to bring more video content online.. but this stuff takes time.
Most of the people who think we're just funding an iPad port (from what I've seen in my own forum-type responses on BluesNews and elsewhere), have not looked at the KS page at all and are basically jumping to conclusions. There is not much I can do about that, except try and message with more content-related stuff moving forward, which is.. exactly what I'm doing and have been working on for some time.
Awesome!
"they just aren't interested in small MMOs doing anything with gameplay, innovative or otherwise"
Shows what they know about player interests frankly.
Okay well i'm glad to hear it, looking forward to the videos and i'll be sure to do the rounds again with the forum posts.
"they just aren't interested in small MMOs doing anything with gameplay, innovative or otherwise"
Shows what they know about player interests frankly.
Okay well i'm glad to hear it, looking forward to the videos and i'll be sure to do the rounds again with the forum posts.
The following discussion on Frontier.co.uk tripped my Google alert:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4144
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4144
Doesn't matter how you phrase it, a money grab is still a money grab. It's pretty transparent. Good to see your campaign is performing as predicted.
You predicted the campaign would raise 22k in 8 days?
Impavid you're a fricken hilarious riot man, you might as well go and call all the companies on the stock exchange 'money grabbers', everybody has to raise capital. You and all the others shouting money grab would legitimately have a point if it didn't include subscription time, but it does, it's a well designed campaign, and you're a newb.
I predicted it would stall at 6-8 days and perception would catch up to reality. You're not preaching to the VO choir on the forum anymore, the game is being pushed on a much more skeptical (and frankly, intelligent) community.
Still sore? What did they do to you, that made you so butthurt? Did they finally ban you?
Oh cute, you think the world is full of intelligent people.
Anyway, back on topic, I'm extremely skeptical of this 30% theory thing. I went back and read the post you cited Incarnate when you first mentioned it and there's a distinct lack of empirical evidence on the post though he does reference a presentation that I didn't have time to watch. I'm sure there is some software on kickstarter that controls the sites own internal marketing and I have no doubt that it kicks in if you meet certain parameters that demonstrate you are worthy of the marketing effort.
I do know that it is highly unlikely to receive less attention and backing at the end of a project rather than at the start - so I think Impavid is a totally uneducated twit (is anyone surprised?) to be calling the game at this point. The only concern I have is that we'll fall just short at the end, so anything we can make up now will be key.
Anyway, back on topic, I'm extremely skeptical of this 30% theory thing. I went back and read the post you cited Incarnate when you first mentioned it and there's a distinct lack of empirical evidence on the post though he does reference a presentation that I didn't have time to watch. I'm sure there is some software on kickstarter that controls the sites own internal marketing and I have no doubt that it kicks in if you meet certain parameters that demonstrate you are worthy of the marketing effort.
I do know that it is highly unlikely to receive less attention and backing at the end of a project rather than at the start - so I think Impavid is a totally uneducated twit (is anyone surprised?) to be calling the game at this point. The only concern I have is that we'll fall just short at the end, so anything we can make up now will be key.
TRS is soooo right :)
IMO, while some people in vo community are stubborn, it is the most intelligent community by far I have ever seen. I've met programmers, people with doctorates, etc on vo and had intelligent conversations with all of them; another example is sometimes you will come on vo and see a convo going on about the higgs bozon or some such phenomena, and it works because a lot of people know stuff about that kind of stuff.
IMO, while some people in vo community are stubborn, it is the most intelligent community by far I have ever seen. I've met programmers, people with doctorates, etc on vo and had intelligent conversations with all of them; another example is sometimes you will come on vo and see a convo going on about the higgs bozon or some such phenomena, and it works because a lot of people know stuff about that kind of stuff.
epic timing crusader, it looks like you're endorsing both my posts but i know you couldn't have possibly seen the second one when you posted :P
Pledged :) Good work guys. I love the game