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It should be manufactured to promote the trade and daily conquest of stations ect ect... the strife that is Vendetta.
That being said it's really not worth building unless it had a military variant or more cargo space. So 5mil to buy is ok.
I know TTM owners and builders are kinda like "WHAT!" but use same but less parts.. the market will survive...
Do not get me wrong it's a cool ass looking ship +1 there... and it's fun to fly ... yes the first test release was way over powered with weapons "but fun".
That being said it's really not worth building unless it had a military variant or more cargo space. So 5mil to buy is ok.
I know TTM owners and builders are kinda like "WHAT!" but use same but less parts.. the market will survive...
Do not get me wrong it's a cool ass looking ship +1 there... and it's fun to fly ... yes the first test release was way over powered with weapons "but fun".
Ok - if the Goliath accidently came out with 7 ports and you don't feel like switching the role you intended for it for now incarnate, then it's a whole different thing. It's your game after all.
In the light of the new facts, I'd like to suggest that the Goliath be a straight buy. If that's out of question, it has to be manufactured at really low effort. It is "half a Trident" right now. Half the cargo, nearly half the shields and almost half the armor. If it was hard to manufacture, people could directly go for the TTM instead to save the hassle. So I favorize a straight buy now. Maybe 15m-20m and no insurance would be okay. People could invest into an expensive, but very much safer Behemoth now to build their first "big" capship (the Trident) a bit more quickly.
In the light of the new facts, I'd like to suggest that the Goliath be a straight buy. If that's out of question, it has to be manufactured at really low effort. It is "half a Trident" right now. Half the cargo, nearly half the shields and almost half the armor. If it was hard to manufacture, people could directly go for the TTM instead to save the hassle. So I favorize a straight buy now. Maybe 15m-20m and no insurance would be okay. People could invest into an expensive, but very much safer Behemoth now to build their first "big" capship (the Trident) a bit more quickly.
I think the goliath should be what i originally suggest way back when... if the seven ports was accidental. It should be a super moth... Its current statistics would allow an increase in build time to for the trident, and i would say should be a manu project somewhere between ine third to one half the difficulty of the trident. The tridents build time would be much increased once this ship was available. However - if the weaponry is reduced so heavily, i think 400cu is a little low. Maybe 500-600, enough to dock two larger ships, maybe moths. But... Overall, its power will still be a little high with 3 turrets and a large port, especially since it has access to the capital turrets. But i suppose the "power" issue is somewhat overcome by having the shield as lower power, but i think it could be additionally improved by lessening the power of the goli's powerplant a little too. Make it 3000charge and 125 charge rate, with maybe 100 grid power instead.
So, to conclude, goli makes much more sense now, but as a trade ship needs a tiny bit more cargo space. Also, nerf its cell a litte. Its physically impossible ti put the same engine that runs in an eighteen wheeler lorry into a min, after all.
One small dislike however, is the arrangement of main weapons for the goli and the dent should not be the same. Either the dent needs something more or the gol something less. The gol with twin small would be somewhat more enjoyable without being op, or the trident with twin large, and the gol stays single large.
So yeah... good updates to it so far, now it makes much more sense at least :)
Please please please make the next ship release something more conbat orientated ;) maybe a slow carrier with an effectively impenetrable shield but few weapons, that'd be a great pvp encouragement.
Sorry for typos... touchscreen keyboard hehe
So, to conclude, goli makes much more sense now, but as a trade ship needs a tiny bit more cargo space. Also, nerf its cell a litte. Its physically impossible ti put the same engine that runs in an eighteen wheeler lorry into a min, after all.
One small dislike however, is the arrangement of main weapons for the goli and the dent should not be the same. Either the dent needs something more or the gol something less. The gol with twin small would be somewhat more enjoyable without being op, or the trident with twin large, and the gol stays single large.
So yeah... good updates to it so far, now it makes much more sense at least :)
Please please please make the next ship release something more conbat orientated ;) maybe a slow carrier with an effectively impenetrable shield but few weapons, that'd be a great pvp encouragement.
Sorry for typos... touchscreen keyboard hehe
I am extremely disappointed at the nerf. The Goliath was the Teradon I've always wanted to own. I just don't see a need for a trade ship of this size at this time.
That said, if sold, the price should remain 5 million or cost real money. If manufactured, it should require 1/3 to 1/2 the effort of a trident.
That said, if sold, the price should remain 5 million or cost real money. If manufactured, it should require 1/3 to 1/2 the effort of a trident.
Agree 100% with Sieger and Fluffy, I am pretty disappointed with the ports nerf.
It is now what you wanted - a low end friieghter. Bear in mind though that 400cu is effectively just 250 by the time you get a fighter in there to enable loading/unloading at any station apart from the cap dock ones.
The game needs something like the initial version - a combat capship, as the currently configured dent clearly isn't.
I actually renewed my annual sub to get the Goliath as initial reports were just how cool it was, and enjoyed it while it lasted, but guess I'll have to see what happens in the near future.
The only good thing about the nerf is that it makes a dent important again. The dent really needs a combat buff though....give that three forward facing L-ports, please!
At 400cu and 1 L-port ithe Goliath might as well just be purchaseable for LTS as currently the case.
It is now what you wanted - a low end friieghter. Bear in mind though that 400cu is effectively just 250 by the time you get a fighter in there to enable loading/unloading at any station apart from the cap dock ones.
The game needs something like the initial version - a combat capship, as the currently configured dent clearly isn't.
I actually renewed my annual sub to get the Goliath as initial reports were just how cool it was, and enjoyed it while it lasted, but guess I'll have to see what happens in the near future.
The only good thing about the nerf is that it makes a dent important again. The dent really needs a combat buff though....give that three forward facing L-ports, please!
At 400cu and 1 L-port ithe Goliath might as well just be purchaseable for LTS as currently the case.
Preferred choice - Give it back 2 l 1 s
-buyable
Alternate choice - give us another speech about how you're right and we don't know how to play the game
-give sub money back to people like the above who LTS and subbed under a ruse
-let f2p test it cause it's crappy to real players
-buyable
Alternate choice - give us another speech about how you're right and we don't know how to play the game
-give sub money back to people like the above who LTS and subbed under a ruse
-let f2p test it cause it's crappy to real players
Since intended to be a freighter, it definitely needs more cargo space. I man cmon, why would I prefer this over an XC? The XC is fast enough to do two or three loads in the same amount of time and can dock in small docks. Variants? Fine, adjust it as intended to a mining platform, a hauling platform, and a combat platform. Mining should be the original port configuration, built in Roid and storm scanners, 500cu, but only be able to equip normal turrets and only mining beams. Maybe make them come built in 4he3hd. Hauling platform remains the current layout but 600cu. Combat gains the ability to mount cap turrets and 4 large ports but only 250cu.
On the other hand, the current TTM certainly needs to be redone. Since it is meant to be a combat Capitol from the start, it needs more ports, lower cargo, and more weapons. Say 1 Capitol gauss, 2 small, and 2 large forward facing guns, current 4 Capitol turrets, and add in 4 new small turrets such as the moth and atlas carry. These could cover current blunder spots, and encourage more people to play gunner. I mean a ttm loaded like that would be a definite threat to any small fighter or group. Especially if the small turrets were.the currently near useless shield turrets. 500cu cargo should be adequate to dock a few ec class shuttles or a fighter and a couple of shuttles. After all, it's a combat ship. Goliath is a hauler.
On the other hand, the current TTM certainly needs to be redone. Since it is meant to be a combat Capitol from the start, it needs more ports, lower cargo, and more weapons. Say 1 Capitol gauss, 2 small, and 2 large forward facing guns, current 4 Capitol turrets, and add in 4 new small turrets such as the moth and atlas carry. These could cover current blunder spots, and encourage more people to play gunner. I mean a ttm loaded like that would be a definite threat to any small fighter or group. Especially if the small turrets were.the currently near useless shield turrets. 500cu cargo should be adequate to dock a few ec class shuttles or a fighter and a couple of shuttles. After all, it's a combat ship. Goliath is a hauler.
Cargo: Cargo I think would be most effective at 600cu. This allows it to be useful and desirable to those wanting larger hauling ability. At 600cu even doing overstuffing ( we all know will be done ) it will still max out at 800cu and if used normally it allows 475 usable with an ec docked.
Ports: I'm going to break this into variants as it's the best way to have options.
mk 1: 2 Large 1 small - This allows enough ports for both offense or to equip a scanner and 2 HD beams
mk 2 (miner): 3 large ports, built in mineral scanner as on BHM2
mk 3: 2 large 2 small - this can be a little more of a poor mans combat loadout
Power Cell: 1500 Max Charge, 100 Grid, 75 per second recharge rate
Thrust: I do not know what the original thrust was on this but that I think is the best option to have high acceleration as it is a good defensive tool. So back to original thrust.
I think the above specs would make it a worth while purchase for any level of player. I think if it has to be limited to a single version for initial launch then the mk2 should be the default as I think a lot of players would want to use it for mining as well as cargo hauling.
I say purchasable for 15 Million with an insurance at 250k limiting it to 1 per character. This requires for those without cap ships already to have to do some serious trading to get it so it has a bit of a grind to it.
Ports: I'm going to break this into variants as it's the best way to have options.
mk 1: 2 Large 1 small - This allows enough ports for both offense or to equip a scanner and 2 HD beams
mk 2 (miner): 3 large ports, built in mineral scanner as on BHM2
mk 3: 2 large 2 small - this can be a little more of a poor mans combat loadout
Power Cell: 1500 Max Charge, 100 Grid, 75 per second recharge rate
Thrust: I do not know what the original thrust was on this but that I think is the best option to have high acceleration as it is a good defensive tool. So back to original thrust.
I think the above specs would make it a worth while purchase for any level of player. I think if it has to be limited to a single version for initial launch then the mk2 should be the default as I think a lot of players would want to use it for mining as well as cargo hauling.
I say purchasable for 15 Million with an insurance at 250k limiting it to 1 per character. This requires for those without cap ships already to have to do some serious trading to get it so it has a bit of a grind to it.
"The Goliath was not intended to be the way it was released. It's a lower-end freighter, it is not a battle-wagon or gunship."
I watched some player vids of Goliath in use in its "first release" iteration.
It showed great potential for becoming an assault gunship but as can be seen from Incarnates statement above - we got another 'poor mans freighter' instead.
I presume the firepower that the initial Goliath brought into the mix made Inc worried about being game breaking so some kind of nerf was to be expected. The one that ensued pretty much killed the community excitement over this ship.
It's all good and peachy but definitely not something to write home about. I think VO can use yet another freighter since it brings a bit more diversity in the pot so let's leave it at that.
I think the main balancing issue regarding capital class ships can be identified in the use of standard weapons ports on Trident and Goliath and I am afraid that no matter how much we try to propose a well balanced solution, it is not going to work.
Standard ports are very versatile you can equip a range of weapons/mining beams etc. and some combinations will always create imbalance if number of ports is increased.
My proposal is to circumvent this by creating capital class weapon ports and adequate capital class weapons/equipment slots.
This will, however, require a creation of those weapons but on the positive side - those weapons/equipment can be balanced to not make any configuration game breaking or overpowered.
Here are some example configurations I would like to see.
Trident
- 2 large cap slots
- 1 small cap slot
Goliath
- 1 large cap slot
- 2 small cap slots
Proposed capital class equipment for use in forward slots
Offensive weapons:
1. Large Capital positron blaster, Damage: 2000 dmg/blast, Velocity 220, Energy: 20/blast, Delay: 0.18
2. Large Capital Gatling Cannon, Damage: 800 dmg/blast, Velocity: 200, Energy: 15/blast, Delay: 0.10
3. Small Capital Neutron blaster, Damage: 1000 dmg/blast, Velocity 215, Energy: 14/blast, Delay: 0.14
4. Small Capital Raven Blaster, Damage: 800 dmg/blast, velocity 200, Energy 12/blast, Delay: 0.12
Defensive weapons:
1. Large Capital Concussion mine, Concussion 20000 N (0 dmg), Energy: 0, Delay: 2s, Proximity: 150 m, Splash radius: 500 m Ammo: 20, Lifetime: 30 min
2. Large Capital Class Proximity mine, Damage: 5000, Energy 0, Delay: 2s, Proximity 150 m, Splash radius: 150 m, Ammo 20, Lifetime: 30 min
3. Small Capital Class Drain Mine, Damage: 300 energy/ 50 damage, Energy: 0, Delay: 2s, Proximity: 100 m, Splash radius: 100 m, Ammo: 20, Lifetime: 30 min
Some non combat capital class equipment could come in handy: scanners, mining beams, radar extenders etc.
In addition I would suggest introduction of additional Capital Class turret weapons:
1. Dual positron blaster turret - 2 standard aapb positrons mounted on a turret
2. Dual neutron blaster turret - 2 standard neutron mk3 neutrons mounted on a turret
3. Point defense turret: firing a cluster of decoys/drones that make 50% of incoming missiles explode before they reach the ship (something similar to how flechette rounds look now).
Damage : 50, Velocity: 100 m/s Delay: 1s, Proximity 50 m, Splash radius 70 m, Lifetime: 10 sec
I watched some player vids of Goliath in use in its "first release" iteration.
It showed great potential for becoming an assault gunship but as can be seen from Incarnates statement above - we got another 'poor mans freighter' instead.
I presume the firepower that the initial Goliath brought into the mix made Inc worried about being game breaking so some kind of nerf was to be expected. The one that ensued pretty much killed the community excitement over this ship.
It's all good and peachy but definitely not something to write home about. I think VO can use yet another freighter since it brings a bit more diversity in the pot so let's leave it at that.
I think the main balancing issue regarding capital class ships can be identified in the use of standard weapons ports on Trident and Goliath and I am afraid that no matter how much we try to propose a well balanced solution, it is not going to work.
Standard ports are very versatile you can equip a range of weapons/mining beams etc. and some combinations will always create imbalance if number of ports is increased.
My proposal is to circumvent this by creating capital class weapon ports and adequate capital class weapons/equipment slots.
This will, however, require a creation of those weapons but on the positive side - those weapons/equipment can be balanced to not make any configuration game breaking or overpowered.
Here are some example configurations I would like to see.
Trident
- 2 large cap slots
- 1 small cap slot
Goliath
- 1 large cap slot
- 2 small cap slots
Proposed capital class equipment for use in forward slots
Offensive weapons:
1. Large Capital positron blaster, Damage: 2000 dmg/blast, Velocity 220, Energy: 20/blast, Delay: 0.18
2. Large Capital Gatling Cannon, Damage: 800 dmg/blast, Velocity: 200, Energy: 15/blast, Delay: 0.10
3. Small Capital Neutron blaster, Damage: 1000 dmg/blast, Velocity 215, Energy: 14/blast, Delay: 0.14
4. Small Capital Raven Blaster, Damage: 800 dmg/blast, velocity 200, Energy 12/blast, Delay: 0.12
Defensive weapons:
1. Large Capital Concussion mine, Concussion 20000 N (0 dmg), Energy: 0, Delay: 2s, Proximity: 150 m, Splash radius: 500 m Ammo: 20, Lifetime: 30 min
2. Large Capital Class Proximity mine, Damage: 5000, Energy 0, Delay: 2s, Proximity 150 m, Splash radius: 150 m, Ammo 20, Lifetime: 30 min
3. Small Capital Class Drain Mine, Damage: 300 energy/ 50 damage, Energy: 0, Delay: 2s, Proximity: 100 m, Splash radius: 100 m, Ammo: 20, Lifetime: 30 min
Some non combat capital class equipment could come in handy: scanners, mining beams, radar extenders etc.
In addition I would suggest introduction of additional Capital Class turret weapons:
1. Dual positron blaster turret - 2 standard aapb positrons mounted on a turret
2. Dual neutron blaster turret - 2 standard neutron mk3 neutrons mounted on a turret
3. Point defense turret: firing a cluster of decoys/drones that make 50% of incoming missiles explode before they reach the ship (something similar to how flechette rounds look now).
Damage : 50, Velocity: 100 m/s Delay: 1s, Proximity 50 m, Splash radius 70 m, Lifetime: 10 sec
It looks like a transport. I don't know why it had 6 ports on it in the first place. This ship should obey follow commands and behave more like an autonomous drone or fury. I can't imagine why anyone would want to fly it.
Also +1 to bojans suggestions. That would make balancing cap ships easier. Then buff the [edit: it's Christmas] trident.
In addition, a captains tab please. If caps ships are going to be a regular thing, they should have an interface for follow/park/defend/keys etc.
Also +1 to bojans suggestions. That would make balancing cap ships easier. Then buff the [edit: it's Christmas] trident.
In addition, a captains tab please. If caps ships are going to be a regular thing, they should have an interface for follow/park/defend/keys etc.
Since it's Xmas, and it's all about hope: can we have a gunship? Like the size of the Goliath, but a different, sleeker model/mesh with the original seven Goliath ports? You'd make a lot of children (and many adults who play as well) very happy.
Give a small port or something I hate the one large port :/
I feel that the recent drama with the Goliath brings sharply into focus a problem that we've all been quietly dancing around for a long time. ALL of the current capships, with the possible exception of the Teradon, are badly under-armed. Does it really make sense that these giants are consistently outgunned by solitary small craft a fraction of their size? Look, I get that capships are intended to require a team effort to bring down, but what exactly do they bring to the table as part of a team? A gunship at least encourages teamwork by being a threat to other capships (making it a priority target to be destroyed) whist still being relatively fragile and vulnerable to fighter/bomber attacks (requiring it to be protected).
In any case, the current Goliath's reduced level of firepower may well be appropriate for the role of light freighter which the devs originally intended, and I'm perfectly OK with that. I am, however, not sold on the idea that halving it's cargo capacity at the same time was the wisest move. As it is, it can't take a hit, it can't throw a punch, and it isn't competitive as a cargo transport. What role was it supposed to fill again?
In any case, the current Goliath's reduced level of firepower may well be appropriate for the role of light freighter which the devs originally intended, and I'm perfectly OK with that. I am, however, not sold on the idea that halving it's cargo capacity at the same time was the wisest move. As it is, it can't take a hit, it can't throw a punch, and it isn't competitive as a cargo transport. What role was it supposed to fill again?
If its supposed to be lesser than the trident in every-way, change the large port to a small port. At least we'll have some variety.
One of the problems is that we don't know if it's intended to be purchasable or manufactured. As it stands now it would be a great high end purchasable behemoth upgrade. If it stays like this and needs to be manufactured it better be an easy *expletive* build.
+1 to Ore and bojans comments.
I also would think capitalships should use specialized ports; +1 bojan - but is this entirely the place for suggestions?
...behh, who cares. It relates.
...behh, who cares. It relates.
Yes, +1 for Bojan's post as well. He has some excellent, well thought out ideas. Also the ideas about buffing the Trident until it feels like an actual frigate are good as well.
+1 as well for Bojan's suggestion. It was stated in the past that the tridents were introduced before their intended role exists in the game, so we are likely asking for the ship we want rather than what is meant. It kind of reminds me of the UDV Raptor... ;)
+1 Bojans suggestion